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View Full Version : One essential thing we're going to have to combat - 'unelectability' - what do you think?




aknappjr
05-15-2011, 12:03 PM
The MSM is giving Ron Paul more attention, and more respect than 2007. When I talk to non-Ron Paul Republicans in Arkansas, the generally like Ron Paul and his views. But they say things like 'I would support him, but I don't think he can win. How can we persuade people to think he can win.

tangent4ronpaul
05-15-2011, 12:08 PM
I think I haven't heard the phrase "unelectable" come out of a talking head this whole cycle. "can't win" I was hearing for a while, but that has dies off.

Rebuff: "He won't win if you don't vote for him" or "He will win if enough people like you vote for him"

trey4sports
05-15-2011, 12:08 PM
We can't "tell" them that Ron can win we have to actually do some winning. Starting with The Ames Straw Poll and then Iowa. From there it will become clear that we can win the whole schbang

centure7
05-15-2011, 12:19 PM
They say things like 'I would support him, but I don't think he can win. How can we persuade people to think he can win.

The Come-back:
Part 1: Its dangerous to turn elections into popularity contests... I think the vote should go to the best candidate.

Part 2: That kind of thinking can only lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy... Ron Paul has the biggest number of grassroots supporters and the only thing stopping him from winning at this point is a self-defeating attitude."

Part 3: Your chances of being the one vote to sway an election are nearly zero, especially in a national election. But, your chance to express who you think should be president are 100%, but only if you vote for the absolute best candidate of the bunch.

LibertyEagle
05-15-2011, 12:23 PM
We can't "tell" them that Ron can win we have to actually do some winning. Starting with The Ames Straw Poll and then Iowa. From there it will become clear that we can win the whole schbang

Yup. If we win the Ames Straw Poll, it is a whole new ballgame.

JK/SEA
05-15-2011, 01:15 PM
I get this once in awhile as well. My comeback is...''so..you're one of those who thinks everything is just fine then?...go ahead, keep supporting the same old same old if thats what you want to do, but i reserve the right to tell you i told you so when things get worse. C'mon, i'll buy you a beer''

Badger Paul
05-15-2011, 01:25 PM
"Yup. If we win the Ames Straw Poll, it is a whole new ballgame"

Bingo.

febo
05-15-2011, 01:39 PM
This is a very interesting topic.
But the answer is very simple - once you get Ron Paul, once you get liberty - even if you maybe don't accept all of it - you'll vote for him.
Ron Paul challenges the cynicism we all have somewhere in us. We (the current generations) all have a long training in cynicism and perhaps don't even know how deep it runs. We are untrained in radical discontinuity (revolution), we think the establishment will always prevail for many reasons - make your own list.
Ron Paul points us to the America that did save the world, the America that took liberty further than anyone else.
When Americans realise that electing Ron Paul would be the second American revolution they'll jump at the chance to make history - that is after all why they voted for Obama - he came from nowhere too. The desire for change is still there - Obama cannot run on that ticket this time.

gerryb
05-15-2011, 01:39 PM
Ron won the CPAC straw poll 2 years in a row now. He is #1 repub against Obama in a rasmussen poll. He has won 14 congressional races.

#WINNING

hillertexas
05-15-2011, 01:51 PM
I dont think this is or will be a problem. But, just like anything else....just ask them "why?" Chances are they have no idea.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366&d=1305255776
http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a458/hillertexas/08alt.jpg
http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a458/hillertexas/Picture2.png

Bryan
05-15-2011, 01:51 PM
But they say things like 'I would support him, but I don't think he can win.
One thing to keep in mind, this is their opinion, and it isn't right or wrong- the point is, don't undermine opinions as "wrong".

My response: "Why would you say that? He is actually doing quite well in the polls. There are a lot of media personalities who disagree with you and saying he has a good change this time... (keep on this theme for as long as you can... then conclude with) So you should really look into this."

Don't try to belittle or convince them on the spot. Give them a good sell and plant some seeds.

febo
05-15-2011, 02:01 PM
One thing to keep in mind, this is their opinion, and it isn't right or wrong- the point is, don't undermine opinions as "wrong".

Don't try to belittle or convince them on the spot. Give them a good sell and plant some seeds.

Good point but I do think something can be said to people who say 'I would support him, but I don't think he can win' - they are not asking themselves what they believe in, they're thinking purely tactically. You have to be asking yourself what you want, not second guessing what everyone else might do.
Voters have responsibilities.

ForLibertyFight
05-15-2011, 02:06 PM
This question of "electability" is raised a lot when I talk to Republicans.
We have to win the Ames Straw Poll and win Iowa. That will be the only way to get rid of this silly notion.

TroySmith
05-15-2011, 02:10 PM
+1 on the CPAC and poll saying he has the best chance against Obama.

It also helps to mention how successful his grassroots fundraising has been. He's a candidate that can raise a ton of money WITHOUT being "bought and paid for" by special interest. In the end though he is going to have to do well in either Iowa or New Hampshire. If he does, the Ron Paul wave could turn into a unstoppable tsunami real quick.

On a side note, I really believe the major battle is the primaries and not the general election. Imagine Ron Paul debating Obama one on one in a forum that forced a fair level of equality. Ron would intellectually crush him so badly that Obama would lose all face except among the uber left.

erowe1
05-15-2011, 02:29 PM
When you talk to someone and they say they can't support Ron Paul because they think he can't win, ask them, "If anything changes between now and our primary that convinces you that Ron Paul could win, would you support him then?"

If their answer is yes, then they're in a good position to come around provided we do our job and keep getting his level of support to grow.

trey4sports
05-15-2011, 02:30 PM
This will be the least of our problems. Iowa is unique in the sense that I dont believe people there think like that. Ron did very well there last time and he can WIN this time. Maybe im wrong, maybe folks there think like that but i think they are willing to vote for the candidate that matches them. I STRONGLY believe that if Ron can win Iowa then "electability" will no longer be an issue.

At this point in time we need to worry about WINNING Ames and using that to springboard us into victory in Iowa then carrying that momentum towards N.H. and South Carolina (mainly South Carolina).

The only way we can convince people to vote for Ron Paul is to actually WIN. Thats it, dont worry about logically convincing them we can win, SHOW THEM WE CAN WIN IN IOWA!

The Dark Knight
05-15-2011, 02:35 PM
No republican in the last 30 years has won the nomination without winning either Iowa or New Hampshire. We must win Iowa, which starts with the Ames straw poll.

PaulConventionWV
05-15-2011, 02:47 PM
We can't "tell" them that Ron can win we have to actually do some winning. Starting with The Ames Straw Poll and then Iowa. From there it will become clear that we can win the whole schbang

+1

This should be a primary focus. Of course, canvassing is a part of that, and if you run into someone like that, just tell them that he would win if people would vote for him. If people simply accept only the "electable" candidates, then their president has already been chosen. You can throw that in there, too, if you like. Just make sure to be respectable about it, but of course, like trey pointed out, we must do some actual winning, and that will have the widest effect.

ronpaulitician
05-15-2011, 02:48 PM
"In hindsight, we could say that all of the 2008 GOP candidates were unelectable, right? It's not about picking the candidate you think can win. It's about picking the candidate you wish would win, and then making that win happen."

Billay
05-15-2011, 03:07 PM
Just use the CNN poll.

AndrewD
05-15-2011, 03:19 PM
"Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution sets the principal qualifications one must meet to be eligible to the office of president. A president must:

* be a natural born citizen of the United States;
* be at least thirty-five years old;
* have been a permanent resident in the United States for at least fourteen years.

A person who meets the above qualifications is still disqualified from holding the office of president under any of the following conditions:

* Under the Twenty-second Amendment, no eligible person can be elected president more than twice. The Twenty-second Amendment also specifies that if any eligible person who serves as president or acting president for more than two years of a term for which some other eligible person was elected president, the former can only be elected president once. Scholars disagree whether anyone no longer eligible to be elected president could be elected vice president, pursuant to the qualifications set out under the Twelfth Amendment.

* Under Article I, Section 3, Clause 7, upon conviction in impeachment cases the Senate has the option of disqualifying convicted individuals from holding other federal offices, including the Presidency.

* Under Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment, the Constitution prohibits an otherwise eligible person from becoming president if that person swore an oath to support the Constitution, and later rebelled against the United States. However, the Congress, by a two-thirds vote of each house, can remove the disqualification."


If you meet the above requirements, you are electable. End of story.

Bryan
05-15-2011, 03:28 PM
Just use the CNN poll.

+1. I've already have been using that to the naysayer.

Bryan
05-15-2011, 03:32 PM
Good point but I do think something can be said to people who say 'I would support him, but I don't think he can win' - they are not asking themselves what they believe in, they're thinking purely tactically. You have to be asking yourself what you want, not second guessing what everyone else might do.
Voters have responsibilities.
Agreed- so really there are two flavors of responses. One is a tactical response as to why they should question their position. The second is a reminder they should honor their responsibility of voting a particularly way for the correct reasons.

LibertyEagle
05-15-2011, 03:35 PM
"In hindsight, we could say that all of the 2008 GOP candidates were unelectable, right? It's not about picking the candidate you think can win. It's about picking the candidate you wish would win, and then making that win happen."

I like this. This is good. :)