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View Full Version : Who else has thought about leaving the US?




I Don't Vote
05-15-2011, 11:30 AM
After reading Simon Black's posts on Lewrockwell.com, leaving the US seems like a pretty good idea. Everyone wants you to think that the US is the bastion of freedom, and if we don't save this country, freedom is doomed all around the world. I for one think this is bullshit.

First of all, the so called "free, democratic" process that we experience in the US might be the very reason we have the grossly unconstitutional government that we have. Everyone wants something from the government. Like H.L. Mencken said, elections are an advanced auction for the sale of stolen goods. That is what the US culture has become. I feel that other cultures are more focused on personal responsibility. The type of mentality that, "You go out and achieve what you want to achieve, nobody is going to give it to you," is gone. With 1 out of 8 people on food stamps, without the negative stigma attached to using them, the US is basically the richest country with the most pervasive welfare state. I don't like that, not one bit.

The next thing that I hate absolutely is the US culture that has developed among young people. To be intelligent and to score well in things like math and science is frowned upon. Just because most young people are retards, the smarter and more achieving among them try to avoid being known as nerds, when they should be proud to be more intelligent than the average sheep. Somebody posted an article that around 50% of Detroit's population is functionally illiterate. And the reason many employers require their employees to be college educated is because they want to make sure they know what they should've learned in high school. We are going to face an intelligence deficit in the coming years when all the Hanna Montana tard kids are legally allowed to vote.

I want to move somewhere where kids are taught useful trades by their parents. If a man owns a restaurant, he introduces his son or daughter to cooking and experimenting with flavors at a very early age. If a father is a house builder, he has his sons on the construction site to teach him what goes into building homes. Instead, people in the US send their kids to school and they encourage them to go to college, where they either become educated fools with no work experience and expect to get a job with a big salary when they really don't deserve it at all.

I have more to say but I'll stop for now.

Drunk rantings.

Lucille
05-15-2011, 11:36 AM
Reading Sovereign Man has encouraged me too. He really likes Chile.

http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/agricultural-property-in-chile

http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/medical-care-in-chile

This broke my heart, because it's true:


One by one, people will wake up and consider their options. "Stay and fight" is just a bombastic rallying cry of the institutionalized, not a real option. The fact is, there is no enemy, there is no fight... there is only gradual erosion of freedom and opportunity (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/leaving-america-redux-sovereign-mans-next-steps-guide-expats-waiting).

stuntman stoll
05-15-2011, 11:39 AM
There is no habitable free place on earth. Statism has spread to every square inch.

Kotin
05-15-2011, 11:40 AM
No way.. Tx is home.

coastie
05-15-2011, 11:44 AM
Thought think about? All the time.

Probability of execution.... 0%








:o:(

doodle
05-15-2011, 11:44 AM
That would be a win for Obama, neocons, anti liberties and pro groping groups. Best solution is to try to restore America's liberties.

FrankRep
05-15-2011, 11:53 AM
No way.. Tx is home.

Texas may be the "New Country"

MikeStanart
05-15-2011, 11:56 AM
No way.. Tx is home.

Hell Yeah! Alamo 2.0, I'll bring the guns, you bring your veggie garden!

JK/SEA
05-15-2011, 12:02 PM
Talk about this all the time with the wife...conversation goes like this...''gawd i'd like to leave this country''. So i go online..Tahiti, Costa Rica, New Zealand... hell, i'd like to move to Kauai even knowing its part of the U.S. but at least its always warm, and has the amenities i like.. (been there). Live out my days in relative comfort and peace...

RedBloodConservative
05-15-2011, 12:07 PM
thought about it? hell I plan on it... If Obama gets reelected I am leaving,plain and simple...

Nice posts about Chile, I already had it on my list..:)

AndrewD
05-15-2011, 12:12 PM
Yea I don't know. I lived in Germany now for the last 4 years, and this place is socialist, big time. I mean it's not all bad, and English is common. But the thing is, I think it's very important to embrace the culture you move to. You should learn the language and the customs. You think mexicans are bad in America? The turkish here are terrible. In Germany, everything (except gas stations) is closed on Sundays, and you must be quiet. It's a sacred family day and you can't even mow your lawn, too much noise. This isn't a problem for me to respect, but many other Americans get the police called on them for infractions. Being here on military orders helps me to avoid the expectation of learning the language, plus my wife speaks German anyways. But if I was to live here indefinetly I would learn German myself. And I think this a big thinking point on whether to immigrate to a country that doesn't primarily speak English.

Mitt Romneys sideburns
05-15-2011, 12:12 PM
TEXAS! But if Texas falls, I think I might move to like Sweden or Germany or something.

Lucille
05-15-2011, 12:15 PM
I was thinking maybe libertarians could inundate Dominica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominica) like they're trying to do in NH, and turn it into libertopia.

http://www.caribbeanlandandproperty.com/articles.php?19

Anti Federalist
05-15-2011, 12:17 PM
Couple of hundred years ago?

Hell yeah, I would have hauled ass long ago.

Now...?

What's the point, this system is going worldwide, in another 20 years there will not be a single square inch on the face of the earth that will not be under surveillance.

Unless somebody's figured out a moon or Mars habitat, there ain't no place left to run.

So it's fight or die right here.

It's all going to be settled in the next ten years or so...or way or the other.

NewRightLibertarian
05-15-2011, 12:20 PM
Couple of hundred years ago?

Hell yeah, I would have hauled ass long ago.

Now...?

What's the point, this system is going worldwide, in another 20 years there will not be a single square inch on the face of the earth that will not be under surveillance.

Unless somebody's figured out a moon or Mars habitat, there ain't no place left to run.

So it's fight or die right here.

It's all going to be settled in the ten years or so...or way or the other.

Indeed. There is no escape, and there is nowhere to run. Getting out of big metropolitan cities within the next year is what I'd recommend to anyone living in them though

heavenlyboy34
05-15-2011, 12:29 PM
I'm hoping to skedaddle to Russia ASAP. I'm getting better at Russian all the time. :cool: As a freelanc translator, I can work anywhere in the world. It's not exactly a libertarian utopia :( , but there's plenty of countryside to live in away from the cities and minimize contact with officials. They've had enough experience with true tyranny over there to put up with total statism like boobus Americanus does. Plus, Russian women are more consistently attractive/intelligent than American women. :cool:

Johnnymac
05-15-2011, 12:34 PM
Texas may be the "New Country"

Im down with Texas :D

outspoken
05-15-2011, 12:37 PM
What happpen to having to spill the blood of tyrants and patriots ever few generations people? You can run but you can't hide, this is a global metastasis. Give me liberty or give me death. The cancer has been diagnosised and it is up to us to cut it out. The next 10 years are going to be like no other throughout the course of human history..... let's get the party started.

The Dark Knight
05-15-2011, 12:43 PM
The problem with Chile is that they have too many earthquakes. As long as the dollar is the reserve currency of the world i will stay here, but I would probably move to either Costa Rica or Switzerland if I didn't live here and im saving some gold and silver to move there if i ever have to.

Bodhi
05-15-2011, 01:28 PM
thought about it? hell I plan on it... If Obama gets reelected I am leaving,plain and simple...

Nice posts about Chile, I already had it on my list..:)

Might want to add Uruguay to the list as well. It is another South American country to consider.

ronpaulitician
05-15-2011, 01:38 PM
I still have my Dutch citizenship, but they have a queen, and once she goes there will be a king.

ForLibertyFight
05-15-2011, 01:40 PM
Canada

Bodhi
05-15-2011, 01:47 PM
I still have my Dutch citizenship, but they have a queen, and once she goes there will be a king.

Lucky you, you can live in any country in the EU. The East coast of Spain is nice. Lots of English speakers (from England) have moved there.

ronpaulitician
05-15-2011, 01:50 PM
Lucky you, you can live in any country in the EU. The East coast of Spain is nice. Lots of English speakers (from England) have moved there.
Nah, I'm in it for the long haul. US all the way. We were number 1, we were number 1!

nobody's_hero
05-15-2011, 02:02 PM
I don't really think there is anywhere else to go. I see it far more likely that there will be states within the U.S. that would serve as hold-outs to make a last stand.

I've seen recommendations for countries that already have socialized programs, which really defeats the purpose of moving away.

specialK
05-15-2011, 02:21 PM
With the exception of the Tax Gestapo (they can make life hell for small biz owner once you get on their hit list), I've always felt very free in Canada. However, with the agreement that US troops will be able to enter Canada if our government requests it should there be civil unrest and other losses of sovereignty we have given to the US, the billions that will be spent on building new jails (despite our declining crime rate), and living next door to an increasingly economically desperate neighbour, I have some fears that our great lifestyle may be in jeopardy in future. I'm hoping not, of course, but those fears lurk in the back of mind.

schiffheadbaby
05-15-2011, 02:28 PM
What about Singapore or South Korea?

Cowlesy
05-15-2011, 02:55 PM
If the USA truly goes to pot, the rest of the world likely won't be far behind (though many debate that), and you being a Yankee will probably not be taken to too awfully kindly by your new neighbors.

Kludge
05-15-2011, 03:07 PM
There is no place Man has not been collected in many and made to endure a terrible government to rule their evil hearts. It's not just government, but the cultural value of laziness brought about by hyper-efficient exploitative commerce-oriented markets which over-value rigid administration, dubious marketing claims, and risk instead of labor and loyalty. It is no surprise that the average item of an American's house was produced with the $.05/hr labor of an indignant subsistence farmer's daughter working 80 hrs/wk while the carefree American clerk working 40 hrs/wk who sold it makes $10/hr. This does not mean the clerk will not complain about his low wages, however, or his low Welfare benefits.

No need to move out of the country to get away from this, however. In fact, your best bet (that is, nearly impossible) may be to move to the country. A rural area with independent people is probably the ideal route for finding people who are more in line with your values - outside of ditching society altogether. Poor, backward, hard-working, untouched by consumerist lifestyle with a deep appreciation for Jesus (but small run-down wooden churches). The people aren't willing to allow their money to be spent (if only because they don't have enough) on metal detectors in schools or drug sniffing dogs, there are no zoning laws, and the county fire station's response time averages 30 minutes, the exact amount of time (on average) it takes to drive from the fire house to your burning building.

Anti Federalist
05-15-2011, 03:13 PM
If the USA truly goes to pot, the rest of the world likely won't be far behind (though many debate that), and you being a Yankee will probably not be taken to too awfully kindly by your new neighbors.

Not kindly???

Shit, the mobs will be looking to string you up, the USA will get the blame, probably rightly so, for creating the flaming pile of shit in the first place.

In some of the places of the world I have to go, I tell people I'm Canadian, no shit.

pcosmar
05-15-2011, 03:18 PM
Years ago, and before I was at all politically active.

Was on my way to teach Conversational English in Mexico city, and then on to a security job in Sri Lanka. But was robbed in California and lost all my contacts.

There is no place to run that the UN isn't.

LisaNY
05-15-2011, 03:18 PM
Not kindly???

Shit, the mobs will be looking to string you up, the USA will get the blame, probably rightly so, for creating the flaming pile of shit in the first place.

In some of the places of the world I have to go, I tell people I'm Canadian, no shit.

me too, I've even said it when visiting canada :)

crhoades
05-15-2011, 03:20 PM
What?!? And miss Ron and Rand's presidencies for the next 12 years?

samforpaul
05-15-2011, 03:45 PM
Texas may be the "New Country"


I apologize to the Original Poster if this strays from the topic a bit; HOWEVER - do you think there is any realiastic chance of succession? I like Texas myself by the way.

showpan
05-15-2011, 04:04 PM
This is OUR country and we need to take it back....Get away from the cities.

affa
05-15-2011, 04:05 PM
i have dual citizenship with an EU country. my wife and I plan on moving to somewhere there if everyone doesn't start fixing things here soon (aka elect RP). one of the biggest issues holding us back (in addition to important things like pets) is simply the prospect of finding a job once we get there.

personally, I don't care how socialist the country we move to is or isn't, but I do want to stop paying taxes to the US for the current wars we're in, and we also want to avoid economic collapse (though that could easily domino anyway). that is to say, I'd rather our savings get converted to euros (or gold) now than too late.

If RP isn't elected, well, I just don't know. There aren't any other politicians I remotely support (Gary Johnson seemed ok in the debate, but more of a RP lite). I've been sick of the 'well, just wait 4 more years' that's never gotten anyone anywhere in decades my entire life.

affa
05-15-2011, 04:07 PM
I apologize to the Original Poster if this strays from the topic a bit; HOWEVER - do you think there is any realiastic chance of succession? I like Texas myself by the way.

people in the pacific northwest discuss this too, as does... vermont, i think? i can't see it actually happening unless everything collapses, though, and new countries form in the wake (ussr style, sort of).

VIDEODROME
05-15-2011, 04:35 PM
Interesting comments on Germany. I was curious if while they may be socialist leaning do they at least budget? I've heard while some EU members like Greece are having problems Germany is still solvent. It also seems like they're skeptical of America's crazy banking behavior and continued wars such as the recent Libya fiasco.

As for assimilating I'm partly of German heritage and most of that stuff like quiet Sundays doesn't seem to bad. Some of my favorite music is from there to and I'm a fan of German beer :). I'm just not sure I have a good job skill set they would want from a foreigner.


I've thought of other methods of getting out of the crumbling system. The last few years I've been a truck driver. I've given thought to trying to find merchant marine work on a Ocean Freighter and being nearly stateless. I'd pick another citizenship just to be sure I could get away from paying taxes to fund these wars.

ProIndividual
05-15-2011, 04:46 PM
Look at Uruguay, and if you're interested, I'm looking for someone to share a place and bills with, temporarily (maybe first 6 monthes to a year) upon gaining permanent residency. I play professional poker, so my income is dependent on leaving, and not where I live otherwise. I researched pretty well the laws in other countries, and I found Uruguay to be the best. Their crime rates are also comparable. Drugs laws, guns, etc., all pretty good. No taxes on foreign derived income (like poker). Low cost/high quality of living.

Look into it, let me know. Two American incomes, even if just above poverty level here, can afford a phat beachfront condo near Montevideo!

ClayTrainor
05-15-2011, 04:52 PM
Look at Uruguay, and if you're interested, I'm looking for someone to share a place and bills with, temporarily (maybe first 6 monthes to a year) upon gaining permanent residency. I play professional poker, so my income is dependent on leaving, and not where I live otherwise. I researched pretty well the laws in other countries, and I found Uruguay to be the best. Their crime rates are also comparable. Drugs laws, guns, etc., all pretty good. No taxes on foreign derived income (like poker). Low cost/high quality of living.

Look into it, let me know. Two American incomes, even if just above poverty level here, can afford a phat beachfront condo near Montevideo!

I'm intrigued and would like to consider Uruguay, but i need to do more research.... I need to be able to take my dog with me, or I won't even consider it, haha.

I also have an income that isn't dependant on living in any specific area, so I want to pack up and move somewhere where liberty is respected to the greatest degree.

heavenlyboy34
05-15-2011, 05:06 PM
Interesting comments on Germany. I was curious if while they may be socialist leaning do they at least budget? I've heard while some EU members like Greece are having problems Germany is still solvent. It also seems like they're skeptical of America's crazy banking behavior and continued wars such as the recent Libya fiasco.

As for assimilating I'm partly of German heritage and most of that stuff like quiet Sundays doesn't seem to bad. Some of my favorite music is from there to and I'm a fan of German beer :). I'm just not sure I have a good job skill set they would want from a foreigner.


I've thought of other methods of getting out of the crumbling system. The last few years I've been a truck driver. I've given thought to trying to find merchant marine work on a Ocean Freighter and being nearly stateless. I'd pick another citizenship just to be sure I could get away from paying taxes to fund these wars.
Since your native tongue is English, you can find work as a translator if you learn German fluently. :cool: When/if I move abroad, I'll continue doing freelance translation after I finish my Russian proficiency studies.

VIDEODROME
05-15-2011, 05:25 PM
Since your native tongue is English, you can find work as a translator if you learn German fluently. :cool: When/if I move abroad, I'll continue doing freelance translation after I finish my Russian proficiency studies.

Seriously is there much demand for translators and can you make a living at that?

Right now I'm partly into a German Language software program that seems decent. Also one of my mom's friends is a German immigrant. I've been seriously thinking of getting through the software to build up some skill then trying to have my mom's friend teach me and build on that skill.

heavenlyboy34
05-15-2011, 05:46 PM
Seriously is there much demand for translators and can you make a living at that?

Right now I'm partly into a German Language software program that seems decent. Also one of my mom's friends is a German immigrant. I've been seriously thinking of getting through the software to build up some skill then trying to have my mom's friend teach me and build on that skill.

Yep. English is pretty much the main trade language (for now), so native speakers are in high demand everywhere (AFAIK), especially in developing economies like China. In my experience, software is a good start, but finding a native German speaker to help you with your accent is ideal. German is a pretty common language, and you can find a teacher at just about any community college on the cheap. My German teacher in college, Heike, was a native German. :) (those umlauts can be kinda difficult to pronounce!)

BTW, all translators (that I know of) work freelance now because in-house translators are too expensive, which is cool. :cool: Here's the study guide for the certified translator(CTP) exam by Global Translation Institute, if you're interested. http://translationcertification.org/CTP-Study-Guide.pdf I'm studying for the test myself. :)

Elwar
05-15-2011, 05:46 PM
My wife and I are laying the groudwork for a move to Costa Rica if Ron Paul doesn't win.

Something tells me it will be easier for others to make the decision soon enough.

FreedomProsperityPeace
05-15-2011, 06:00 PM
I've thought about it, but not seriously. I doubt I could even if I wanted to. The culture shock would kill me. :D

Besides, I'm sure that's what the globalists want us to do. Turn the U.S.A. into the Detroit of the world, where all the intelligent, responsible creators flee and leave the garbage to wallow. That would speed their plans right along.

Lucille
05-15-2011, 06:10 PM
Simon Black also recommends Uruguay.

http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/five-things-you-need-to-know-about-uruguay/

We thought about Costa Rica, then the long arm of the US Empire reached down to "help them" fight the drug war.

We talk about going, but we probably won't. Though SB highly recommends everyone have a second passport.

http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/questions-all-about-second-passports/

I wish I could find the piece where he put all of his top recommendations, but I can't. New Zealand, Singapore, Chile and Estonia were all on the list.

ClayTrainor
05-15-2011, 06:20 PM
Simon Black also recommends Uruguay.

I believe Doug Casey also recommends Uruguay as well as Argentina and Chile.

http://www.caseyresearch.com/cwc/doug-casey-his-favorite-place-world

ssantoro
05-15-2011, 06:30 PM
There is no place to hide from the NWO. Might as well stay right here and fight to the end.

jonathanzx10
05-15-2011, 06:43 PM
I am from Chile, I do not recommend it. Santiago is really expensive, and the country is super social conservative (even the democrats are pro life, the catholic church owns the best university and until recently the second biggest tv channel, while the government owns the biggest one) and the culture sucks (I live in the U.S now).

Austrian Econ Disciple
05-15-2011, 06:58 PM
I am from Chile, I do not recommend it. Santiago is really expensive, and the country is super social conservative (even the democrats are pro life, the catholic church owns the best university and until recently the second biggest tv channel, while the government owns the biggest one) and the culture sucks (I live in the U.S now).

At least you guys have privatized parks (Douglas Tompkins). I would love to see more of these pop up as I am a pretty avid outdoorsman.

heavenlyboy34
05-15-2011, 07:08 PM
There is no place to hide from the NWO. Might as well stay right here and fight to the end.
Nah. The empire is already overstretched. I'm hoping to get out while the gettin's good. NWO types are pretty smart, but they can't defy economic and physical reality forever.

Golding
05-15-2011, 07:31 PM
I was living out of the US for a couple of years for education purposes. The experience led me to appreciate my home that much more. As bad as things may seem, they can certainly be worse.

Flash
05-15-2011, 08:19 PM
I apologize to the Original Poster if this strays from the topic a bit; HOWEVER - do you think there is any realiastic chance of succession? I like Texas myself by the way.

Something like 50% of Texas Republicans favor secession.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&hs=WcT&pwst=1&rls=en&channel=suggest&sa=X&ei=eYnQTcaCNYfB0AHihaiZDg&ved=0CBkQvwUoAQ&q=half+of+texas+republicans+favor+secession&spell=1

VIDEODROME
05-15-2011, 08:19 PM
I was living out of the US for a couple of years for education purposes. The experience led me to appreciate my home that much more. As bad as things may seem, they can certainly be worse.

Well we really do still have a lot of freedom here. But on the other hand we have so many crazy scheme like the TARP fund bailout or the continuing Military Industrial Complex.

Now I don't know maybe there could be a final breaking point where the States just stop cooperating and working with D.C. and do their own thing. But in the meantime I see vast wealth being squandered as well as American lives in crazy wars.

samforpaul
05-15-2011, 09:35 PM
Something like 50% of Texas Republicans favor secession.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&hs=WcT&pwst=1&rls=en&channel=suggest&sa=X&ei=eYnQTcaCNYfB0AHihaiZDg&ved=0CBkQvwUoAQ&q=half+of+texas+republicans+favor+secession&spell=1


Thanks!

And perhaps a presidential snub to Gov. Perry could actually be a positive.

Texan4Life
05-15-2011, 10:47 PM
No way.. Tx is home.

big +1

Though if there was already an established english speaking libertarian country I would have to think long and hard. But there isnt. so thats out the window.

ronpaulitician
05-15-2011, 10:48 PM
big +1

Though if there was already an established english speaking libertarian country I would have to think long and hard. But there isnt. so thats out the window.
People keep telling me about Somalia. It's apparently some kind of libertarian paradise.

specsaregood
05-15-2011, 10:49 PM
i left. i came back.

ClayTrainor
05-15-2011, 10:50 PM
i left. i came back.

Where'd u go? Why did you want to move back?

specsaregood
05-15-2011, 10:54 PM
//

ronpaulitician
05-15-2011, 10:57 PM
Mauritius or Bonaire?

ClayTrainor
05-15-2011, 10:57 PM
a small dutch island. i came back because it got lonely living where the only native english speakers were 60+ years old or tourists. I now rent my house down there out for more than enough to cover the property taxes here in the land of the "free".

Ah ic. Sounds like you're playing your hand fairly well... :)

YumYum
05-15-2011, 10:58 PM
I'm going to China for one year, then I am going to New Zealand.

AceNZ
05-15-2011, 11:01 PM
I left the US (Kalifornia) in 2006 with my wife and family, and moved to New Zealand. It was one of the best, and most difficult, things I've ever done.

From the outside, the view you get of the world, and of the US in particular, is shockingly different to the view from inside.

low preference guy
05-15-2011, 11:02 PM
From the outside, the view you get of the world, and of the US in particular, is shockingly different to the view from inside.

Would you mind expanding on this?

Jeremy Tyler
05-15-2011, 11:04 PM
Anyone ever heard of Frontier thesis (also known as Turner Thesis)? It states frontier brings out individualism. Once you lose the frontier you lose the culture of Individualism. Got a frontier for us?

That leads to my next questions. Who here has read "The moon is a harsh mistress" by Robert Heinlein? So place to move out of the U.S........the Moon? or mars or anywhere else.

Free Luna!

specsaregood
05-15-2011, 11:11 PM
//

YumYum
05-15-2011, 11:29 PM
Americans are hated abroad; or, haven't you heard?

James Madison
05-15-2011, 11:29 PM
I'm moving to Texas first chance I get!

Austrian Econ Disciple
05-15-2011, 11:33 PM
I'm moving to Texas first chance I get!

Why not NH?

cindy25
05-16-2011, 12:25 AM
What about Singapore or South Korea?

both have conscription, with Singapore the ultimate nanny state.

american.swan
05-16-2011, 01:37 AM
South Korea, isn't good.

ronpaulitician
05-16-2011, 02:07 AM
South Korea, isn't good.
They've got sweet high-speed internet wired throughout the country, though. One could do a lot of Paulbot spamming.

t0rnado
05-16-2011, 02:13 AM
Why would anyone want to leave when they could just buy a ranch in the middle of Wyoming or Montana and be left alone forever. You should buy 100 acres of land for under $40k and not see a single person much less a cop or a tax collector.

Marenco
05-16-2011, 02:18 AM
Not really, but i'll probably move to another state(Montana).

affa
05-16-2011, 03:47 AM
Why would anyone want to leave when they could just buy a ranch in the middle of Wyoming or Montana and be left alone forever. You should buy 100 acres of land for under $40k and not see a single person much less a cop or a tax collector.

i like urban environments. i'd love New Zealand but the EU citizenship makes the EU a bit more appealing.

Mani
05-16-2011, 05:03 AM
Asia is growing because of it's economic prosperity right now. And so far the people I have met who are either green card holders or Citizens from USA, about 90% (very informal poll) seem to PREFER it over USA once they have left. A lot of them go on 3 year contracts and never go back!

The only ABSOLUTE KILLER, is the USA WORLDWIDE INCOME Tax. That is the ULTIMATE BITCH. So many countries DO NOT have this. If I make a boatload of money here, uncle sam needs his share just like I was back in the old US of A. Anywhere in the world I make money, as long as I have the USA passport, I owe uncle sam a nice chunk of change. So I have to pay the local taxes get some credits from USA and fork over a bunch more. And even if I give up citizenship tomorrow I'm still liable for up to 10 years.

I PERSONALLY KNOW people who have given up the thing so many people used to die and dream for, people handing in their US passports and saying, "thanks but no thanks..." It was a SHOCKING REVELATION. How I used to think being born in USA was like winning the lottery, and the immigration of talent dying to come here and was also a lottery. So few Visas and so much talent wanting to come here.

I remember years ago there were so many extremely talented individuals just praying for the opportunity for a visa to come to the US and start their life, and yet so few were able to get in because of the Visa restrictions. Now I hear some of those restrictions have lifted and those talented individuals are not waiting in line to come here anymore and many have also left.

I can't believe it when I heard a couple friends of mine mention they felt like they made a mistake living in USA for the last 10 years, they wish they would have stayed in Asia because now their peers are so far ahead of them.

I could never have DREAMED of even CONTEMPLATING giving up my citizenship, but my wife is ready to do it. I'm not, but I can actually see a benefit for doing so which I could never have believed before. I know people who have giving up citizenship. It is honestly mind boggling. And they know others who are doing the same. It is truly hard to believe, but it's happening. And mind you, these are talented successful people you would WANT to be in your country. I remember 10+ years ago I made some friends during the IT boom, a lot from India, very talented people. I recall them bitching quite a bit when things went sour, and I used to think, "If you don't like it, GET THE FUCK OUT." Well some did, and the few that I know are now shooting ahead and own companies are in top positions and are so much better off. It was a bit humbling.

You may have the civil liberties you have in the USA which is much freer compared to so many countries in Asia, but as they shrink further and further in America and the quality of life and opportunities and overtaxation become bigger and bigger issues, then when does it become worth it?

If I can have a Ten times better quality of life, if I can have 100 times more economic opportunity and KEEP MUCH MORE of my income, is it worth it to go to another country, especially when the so called, FREE COUNTRY is not so free anymore?

Every trip back to the USA is a little bit disappointing. It looks old, inefficient, and slow, and so many people are stressed, depressed, barely making ends meet. WTF. I used to think we were the most MODERN and ADVANCED country in the world, with the greatest Scientists and ENGINEERS and we were the center of the world. It's difficult to admit I was pretty wrong and the gap is only growing.

The most shocking thing about staying in another country....How much i DON'T miss USA.

I HONESTLY cannot believe it. I was the guy that refused to buy a foreign car my whole life until I was married with kids and finally broke down and bought a Honda Minivan. My parents were repulsed that I traded in my AMERICAN car for a foreign brand. That is the household I grew up in. I'm the guy that used to get teary eyed during the Olympics every time and athlete stood up with a gold medal and the national anthem played. I love my country, and still do. But now that I'm not in it, my perception of it has changed so much. My perception of the world has changed a lot. America has fallen so far behind the rest of the world and it's slowing down, not catching up, that's what makes me sad. Throw on top over taxation, and the eroding of the constitution and civil liberties and it's not the place I remember growing up.

DamianTV
05-16-2011, 05:09 AM
I've been seriously thinking about leaving the country permanently. Most of the people I talk to IRL are fucking retarded. They think all politics is all corrupt, and not that they aren't right to some extent, they dont give a shit about how to fix any of the problems. I try to start to get them going on anything and its like absolutely no one believes that anything can be done. They expect all the government handouts and pitch a bitch if anyone starts talking about taking away any of their benefits, which they seem to prefer over even having the opportunity to do a hundred times better for themselves.

The thing that is driving me to look for another place in the world to evacuate to has just to do with the attitude of the retards as it does the crooked politicians, criminal corporations, and the society that we have ended up with. They all enable the system, and no one wants to do anything about it except get bent when the government runs out of handouts.

AceNZ
05-16-2011, 05:36 AM
Would you mind expanding on this?

I've tried to describe the inside vs. outside view to my friends and family, but for some reason it seems to be difficult to understand until you see it yourself. However, since you asked, it's things like:

-- How many things you need to ask permission for
-- The degree of censorship in the media, including TV and movies
-- How important international incidents are often ignored by the press
-- The extent of police and State involvement in everyday life
-- The general lack of principles in society, and even a lack of the desire for them (pragmatism is considered a good thing)
-- The blatant and self-destructive marriage of government and corporations
-- So, so, so many taxes and fees
-- The very broken medical / health system (yes, it does have some good points too)
-- The very broken education system, ranging from what's taught to abusive student loans
-- So, so many things that are illegal (prostitution and gambling are both legal in NZ)
-- The extent and weight of evangelical Christian influence (can be especially hard to see when you're up close)
-- The abusive legal system (million dollar awards for someone spilling hot coffee on themselves, etc)
-- The overly complex real estate system (you can buy a house in NZ with a 4 page contract)

I could go on, but perhaps that will give you an idea.

I'm not saying these problems don't exist to some degree in other countries, including NZ -- just that they are somehow easier to see in the US from a distance.

Mani
05-16-2011, 05:45 AM
I've tried to describe the inside vs. outside view to my friends and family, but for some reason it's difficult to understand until you see it yourself. However, since you asked, it's things like:

-- How many things you need to ask permission for
-- The degree of censorship in the media, including TV and movies
-- How important international incidents are often ignored by the press
-- The extent of police and State involvement in everyday life
-- The general lack of principles in society, and even a lack of the desire for them (pragmatism is considered a good thing)
-- The blatant and self-destructive marriage of government and corporations
-- So, so, so many taxes and fees
-- The very broken medical / health system (yes, it does have some good points too)
-- The very broken education system, ranging from what's taught to abusive student loans
-- So, so many things that are illegal (prostitution and gambling are both legal in NZ)
-- The extent and weight of evangelical Christian influence (can be especially hard to see when you're up close)
-- The abusive legal system (million dollar awards for someone spilling hot coffee on themselves, etc)
-- The overly complex real estate system (you can buy a house in NZ with a 4 page contract)

I could go on, but perhaps that will give you an idea.

I'm not saying these problems don't exist to some degree in other countries, including NZ -- just that they are somehow easier to see in the US from a distance.

I agree with all those. What about the pharmacy?

When I go to the Dr. I buy the medication right there. I don't get a prescription, it's a one stop shop. TALK ABOUT CONVENIENT!!! I can get my bloodwork, checkup, and meds done all in my Dr's office!!! And I pay cash for everything. I haven't had insurance in a year and I probably saved a ton of money and no insurance headaches. I can't believe how much time I used to waste dealing with insurance companies back home and always feeling ripped off.

SimpleName
05-16-2011, 06:28 AM
I think these attempts are relatively useless. You are not going to escape the madness. And at the moment, most of these countries are military nothings, especially smaller island nations. They can be trampled at any point unless they get help from...the United States. Britain and Germany are mighty, but they are just as far into the globalist hellhole as we are. I have read up on Costa Rica and the Bahamas. Both seem to have fairly open, transparent governments. But when it really comes down to it. I like the American culture. There is the negatives, but it is my thing. I cannot definitively say other nations have a worse culture necessarily, but from all I have gathered, the US is pretty much alone in its way of life. Hence the anti-American sentiment pretty much everywhere. The only thing that appears to resemble it is Britain, but again, they are full-in globalism (and debt).

In addition, there is the language barriers with the majority of countries. That is a major additional pain.

nocompromises
05-16-2011, 07:12 AM
I have thought about leaving the US, but there is no other place I would want to go. The USA is totally corrupt, but other nations are even more corrupt. I would not mind moving to a libertarian outpost on Mars.

YumYum
05-16-2011, 07:46 AM
I have thought about leaving the US, but there is no other place I would want to go. The USA is totally corrupt, but other nations are even more corrupt. I would not mind moving to a libertarian outpost on Mars.

Is New Zealand corrupt?

kahless
05-16-2011, 08:16 AM
Why would anyone want to leave when they could just buy a ranch in the middle of Wyoming or Montana and be left alone forever. You should buy 100 acres of land for under $40k and not see a single person much less a cop or a tax collector.

The federal government will not leave you alone no matter where you are in the world. You are their property. They will take you and your ranch if you do not submit to mandatory Obamacare payments or what is coming with Cap and Trade.

People need to wake up and spread that word about Obama, Romney and Gingrich.

ssantoro
05-16-2011, 08:30 AM
I'm moving to the first state that secedes. ASAP

sparebulb
05-16-2011, 08:45 AM
I'm moving to the first state that secedes. ASAP

I know what you mean, and I agree. However, succession might not work like we want it to work. It looks as if Atzlan may come into existence if the southern part of Arizona is allowed to separate. Atzan as an ideology is far more dangerous to us than the manufactured "radical islam" movement.

ChaosControl
05-16-2011, 09:07 AM
I will be, this fall, although it isn't permanent. I am just going to study a language/culture.
As for a permanent relocation, I don't know, most every other place is just as bad, many being even worse.
Of course I have different priorities than others. How "socialist" (although 99% of people seem to use this word incorrectly) a country is, isn't what I really care about. What I care about is privacy rights as well as other civil liberties and fiscal responsibility. They can spend money and redistribute, whatever, as long as they pay for whatever they spend instead of borrowing or printing more fiat money. Yes, my ideal country would be a voluntary one, but I know I cannot get everything I want. The US though has decided to give a big middle finger to privacy rights and fiscal sanity, certainly somewhere else has to care about these even if they do have a big welfare state. Preferably I'd like a nation that didn't give corporations and banks absolute control of the government as well. I'm not sure where is like this. The place I'm going definitely isn't, I know they don't care a lot about privacy, most Asian nations don't seem to.

Lucille
05-16-2011, 07:02 PM
Simon Black:
One of the reasons I travel so much is so I don’t have to deal with this kind of nonsense. I enjoy spending time in countries where I have no fear of some government agent forcing his way into my home.

There are a number of such places in the world– Chile is definitely one of them (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-indiana-supreme-court-dispenses-magna-carta-constitution).

Flash
05-17-2011, 01:04 AM
Why not NH?

I was planning on moving to the Free State one day. But now I'm seriously considering Texas. It's pretty Conservative, has a decent secessionist movement (the sooner the US Empire breaks up, the better), and Robert Paul lives there (So I'll be able to volunteer for his campaign if he decides to run for anything), it's warmer, more people/more jobs, etc...

The Free State Project is a great idea, but they don't need every Libertarian to move there. Right now, there's only something like 800 movers yet they control the entire State House. All they really need is another 1,000 movers and they'll own the state. See here:
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=10146.0

BamaAla
05-17-2011, 01:13 AM
Leave the country; hell, I don't even want to leave Alabama. This place has its problems, but every other place does too. I've never really felt "un-free" here, and its got everything I like to do (not to mention my career, family, and friends.) Let's just work our butts off to our wrongs!

AceNZ
05-17-2011, 06:30 AM
I agree with all those. What about the pharmacy?

Doctors can sell prescription meds from their office, if they so choose. If you go to the pharmacy, the charge for one course (up to a month's worth) is usually NZ$3.00 (US$2.40). After something like 10 prescriptions in a year, they issue a card that lets you get any additional meds at no (direct) cost for the rest of the year. All "standard" lab work is done at no charge. A visit to your GP costs about NZ$35 (US$28) for a 15 minute appt; it's usually possible to get an appointment the next day. No insurance forms needed.

Although there is a parallel private system, most people get along fine in the public system, and don't have private insurance.


Is New Zealand corrupt?

I'm sure corruption exists to some degree everywhere. However, according to Transparency International's 2010 survey, NZ tied with Singapore and Denmark as the least corrupt country in the world:

http://transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results

The US came in 22nd.

reardenstone
05-17-2011, 07:07 AM
Reading Sovereign Man has encouraged me too. He really likes Chile.

http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/agricultural-property-in-chile

http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/medical-care-in-chile

This broke my heart, because it's true:


Does SM offer an analysis of why Chilean medical care is so much less expensive?

Lucille
05-17-2011, 09:17 AM
Does SM offer an analysis of why Chilean medical care is so much less expensive?

This is all John Cobin (http://www.policyofliberty.net/academic.php), who wrote that piece, says about that:


...the US and Europe have vastly greater funding for research programs. Hence, Chilean doctors are simply consumers of the discoveries and information from the US and Europe.

More from him here: http://escapeamericanow.blogspot.com/2011/05/chile-offers-inexpensive-medical.html

This is an old book, but it talks about the evolution of the Chilean medical system: http://books.google.com/books?id=sCE09uhxyK4C&pg=PA195&lpg=PA195&dq=fonasa+chile&source=bl&ots=qDcGhPwxI0&sig=LxaHGk6FXnDDbFZhLW5YRk3yAfU&hl=en&ei=CAY5SrXXGpyltgfxr83cDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6#PPA189,M1

leonster
05-17-2011, 09:59 AM
Korea's not too bad. Been here 5 years. More free than the US, on balance, I'd say, though imperfect.

TheDrakeMan
06-04-2011, 11:31 PM
I've seriously considered moving to Canada. It's not too far away from home (so I could still visit family) and from what I hear the economy is doing better there. They could be more socialist in some areas, but some are saying Canada has more economic freedom than we do.

http://www.heritage.org/index/country/canada

MM17
06-05-2011, 04:15 PM
Leave the country; hell, I don't even want to leave Alabama. This place has its problems, but every other place does too. I've never really felt "un-free" here, and its got everything I like to do (not to mention my career, family, and friends.) Let's just work our butts off to our wrongs!
Free in Alabama..HA HA! Just dont try to play electronic Bingo or buy a lotto ticket. Riley was a fascist and I'm afraid Bentley isn't any better, what with their secret gestapo bingo police and all. Plus, all overweight evangelicals trying to tell me how to live my life frustrates the hell outta me. #49 outta 50, Thank god for Mississippi.

specialK
06-05-2011, 04:22 PM
I've seriously considered moving to Canada. It's not too far away from home (so I could still visit family) and from what I hear the economy is doing better there. They could be more socialist in some areas, but some are saying Canada has more economic freedom than we do.

http://www.heritage.org/index/country/canada

I recommend it. I love it here and I have been to many other places. Nowhere is perfect, but this is good living. I feel blessed everyday.