Are the Democrats a Socialist Party ?

[aid632007]

Since Socialism supports Government/State and or Collective Ownership of the Means of Production and of Property my question is how are the Democrats Socialists since they support a Progressive Tax System or a Progressive Income Tax does Money count as Property ?

[acptulsa]

Of course money counts as property. It's stuff and it's owned. What would it be?

Some Democrats are more socialist than others. You will find some advocating, for example, a federal takeover of all banks. Others consider this view extreme. The party as a whole skates a fine line.

The meme we need to concentrate on is, are they corporatists? Most are not wittingly corporatists. They are, in fact, philosophically anti-corporatist. But they believe in protecting people by any means possible, and protection is a corporatist racket. So, they're anti-corporatist and corporatism enablers at the same time. And don't know it.

This theme will get us a whole lot farther than screaming 'socialist!'

[YumYum]

How are Democrats any different than Republicans? As far as money being property, it can be compared to stock. When you have money, you have shares of the total money supply, which are receipts of debt backed by the future labor of the American people and if there is a default, the real estate of the United States. Republicans are just as quick to borrow and spend, to kill people overseas, as the Democrats are to help the elderly and the handicapped.

[acptulsa]

Republicans are just as quick to borrow and spend, to kill people overseas, as the Democrats are to help the elderly and the handicapped.

Are they? They seem a damned sight quicker, to me. Either the Democrats or the Republicans can get us into another war in half the time it takes the Democrats to hold a committee meeting determining how much they can skim from the charitable pool of money...

[cindy25]

the Democrats are for the most part socialists, and the Republicans for the most part fascists with a small but growing libertarian wing.

[ValidusCustodiae]

Okay, it looks like we need to go back over our definitions for economic systems. These definitions are not taken from the dictionary, but I challenge you to point out where they are false if you believe so.

Capitalism is any economic system in which 100% of capital is privately owned and property rights are protected by the government.
Communism is any economic system in which 100% of capital is publicly owned.
Socialism is anything in between.

When Ron Paul says that capitalism has never been given a chance, he is correct under this definition. The property rights of slaves were not protected even in the beginning.

[marc1888]

I would say the democrats and the republicans are both fascist parties.

[acptulsa]

I would say the democrats and the republicans are both fascist parties.

How do you move an object that's too heavy to pick up and carry? First you push the left side, then you push the right side, then you push the left side...

[pcosmar]

Get over the Idea that there is any substantial difference between the parties.

And the "Rs"don't have a "libertarian"wing any more than the "Ds". Libertarians broke off (or were run off) from the republican party years ago.
There may be a few that have libertarian ideals in both parties, but it is hardly a "wing".

[FrankRep]

Progressive Democrats are Socialists, but many of them are too wise or too stupid to admit what they are.

"I'm not a Socialist, I'm a Progressive"

A rose by any other name...

[acptulsa]

A rose by any other name...

...won't make a fascist smell one bit better.

[virgil47]

The primary difference between the Dems and Repubs as far as I can tell is that the Dems wish to take away your rights and the Repubs want to compromise away your rights. Two sides of the same coin = Republicrats.

[Vessol]

Both the Democrats and Republicans are Statists. That's all that really matters.

Socialism/Facism/Corportism are just flavor words for Statism.

[nobody's_hero]

I think we could categorize things more accurately as interventionist/non-interventionists (I believe Ron Paul has mentioned this as well).

Either you believe that government has a right to intervene in matters, or you don't.

I worry though, that we're quickly losing the non-interventionist side among democrats. I can't even remember the last time a Democrat spoke up for civil liberties infractions of this administration, as it seems that there's a deep sense that 'everything government does is for the common good' among the democrats these days.

I know that historically, they've been the same, republicans and democrats. But if I had to place money on who was waking up slowly and who was going to sleep, the republicans seem to be waking up and the democrats are slipping into a coma.

[heavenlyboy34]

Both the Democrats and Republicans are Statists. That's all that really matters.

Socialism/Facism/Corportism are just flavor words for Statism.


this^^

[oyarde]

Yes , most are , the remainder are communists .

[fisharmor]

Since Socialism supports Government/State and or Collective Ownership of the Means of Production and of Property my question is how are the Democrats Socialists since they support a Progressive Tax System or a Progressive Income Tax does Money count as Property ?

Money is not the same thing as currency.
Currency is the medium of exchange. For instance, the actual bills or coins, or bytes.
In order to be money, the object in question needs to be:
1) a medium of exchange
2) a unit of account
3) a store of value

I would argue that money, thus defined, is property.
However, I would also argue that federal reserve notes fail criterion #3. Fiat currency is guaranteed to go down in value over time, and thus can't be considered a store of value. They therefore aren't money.
If FRNs aren't money, then it raises the question as to whether it's really property.
I think that since you're not guaranteed that other property will maintain its value, then it still qualifies as property even if it's not money.
But then, is inflation really theft?

[Brian4Liberty]

Since Socialism supports Government/State and or Collective Ownership of the Means of Production and of Property my question is how are the Democrats Socialists since they support a Progressive Tax System or a Progressive Income Tax does Money count as Property ?

What is the difference between a socialist and a communist? You seem to have lumped them together, yet they were very different when the concepts were created. IIRC, "Collective Ownership of the Means of Production and of Property" applies to Communism, not Socialism.

[Brian4Liberty]

After looking at the Wikipedia definition of Socialism, I would say that the modern, common definition has been changed. Gee, now who would benefit by that?

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

To be fair there are just as many socialist Republicans. Dont get conned by the 2 party system.

[FrankRep]

Both the Democrats and Republicans are Statists. That's all that really matters.

Socialism/Facism/Corportism are just flavor words for Statism.

Ron Paul is a Republican.

[acptulsa]

Ron Paul is a Republican.

Sure is. Just like Reagan was. They were and are both about as diehard Republican faithful as Will Rogers was a lifelong Democrat.


"I have not aligned myself with any party. I am just sitting tight waiting for an attractive offer..."--Will Rogers 1923

Rogers got his attractive offer in 1931, Reagan somewhat later, and Paul after 1988. And..?

[FrankRep]

...won't make a fascist smell one bit better.

You mean Progressive Democrat Socialists.

[acptulsa]

You mean Progressive Democrat Socialists.

Oh, yeah. And I have to set out the cans for the Sanitation Engineers tonight, too.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Since Socialism supports Government/State and or Collective Ownership of the Means of Production and of Property my question is how are the Democrats Socialists since they support a Progressive Tax System or a Progressive Income Tax does Money count as Property ?

We should come clean on this matter. First, people living in the north have to be more cooperative as in socialistic in order to survive the colder climates. This is true around the world. Second, people up north are using the federal government in an attempt at keeping further power, money and jobs from going to the south. Third, lawyers run this nation and they depend on the legal business. In contrast, the people depend on forgiveness as in making people happy and not responsible. This is a subtle point. It is important to be responsible, but only as a means to reaching contentment as the ultimate end of the means.
Remember what Uncle Emanuel Watkins has to say about this divisiveness. Not democratic and/or republican, and/or conservative and/or liberal, but as we solve our problems on the local State and City levels, they (tyranny) lobby away our rights and freedoms on the federal level.

[madfoot]

Nope.

I think they try to be social democrats, and do a pretty terrible job at it. I hate to use the word but as others said, both parties are basically fascists.