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View Full Version : July 4th weekend: 100,000 Citizens Declare Independence from Big Government




Zack
05-10-2011, 11:48 PM
**First note: if you actually want to raise your personal influence or name by being seen as "organizing" any moneybombs, past or present, then I think you're missing out on the whole revolution, itself. Having said that, my best hope is that we can get a sense of what most people prefer for July 4th in this thread or another thread very soon, and that my points are considered.**

So I've been considering this business of a July 4th moneybomb since CPAC, I've searched through recent posts and I've talked to a few of you about it because I consider it the best chance to actually raise money outside of Paul's base support for the next few months, at least.

Paul's base of support (if you include new supporters throughout the year) is probably going to give him around $35 million this year. The number might be wrong, but whatever the number, it will be roughly the same whether there is an online fundraiser every month, or only 3 for the rest of the year. Yes, we all know the benefits of a steady stream of money, but for the most part, it is what is known as a zero-sum game, whether the campaign grasps this or not. I know for a fact that the Nov 5th/Dec 16 moneybombs raised money for the campaign from people that would otherwise not be involved, because the events were (both, paradoxically) seen as historic and singular. Many who didn't even think of themselves as Paul supporters donated. For history.

I don't expect the Ready, Ames, Fire online fundraiser to match the July 4th one, even if it IS pushed heavily by the official campaign, so I'm setting that (and June 5th and other dates) aside for the purposes of this post.

Some people have been wanting the moneybomb date to be July 2nd, in honor of the day the Decleration was voted on, and perhaps because people might be less occupied than on the 4th, that being a major holiday. Here is a website created in support of this day:

http://www.thisjuly2nd.com/

I see that Trevor L. has posted a big list of days he wants there to be moneybombs. From my perspective, it almost seems designed to keep us at that base 35 million, and not to get money from people interested in being part of something singular and historic, but I suppose others disagree. His list is here:

RPF thread link (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?292163-An-email-from-Trevor-Lyman-Presidential-Moneybomb-schedule)

In fact, he says in the message:

As a solution to the lessons learned from the past we are rolling out a monthly moneybomb calendar for the Ron Paul campaign during the 2011-12 presidential race. Yes, we should strive to raise as much money as we can during each event and I do believe we can reach the ten million per month mark before too long (perhaps even more), but more importantly we need to give the campaign a constant flow of money to work with.

As you can tell from what I've written, I think the ten million per month thing is baseless, but what I want to focus on is the July date. He gives July 4th-5th. I presume the reasoning behind this is that July 5th is a weekday and we want people to have a date other than a major holiday, but it doesn't seem to make much sense to me. How would you even describe the donation period? You can't say "July 4th weekend!", which is easy to grasp and spread. It would be: "Come donate on July 4th!... oh, and some Tuesday..." I must admit that after thinking about this for a while, I do agree with multiple days being the answer to the "major holiday" problem. Here is his site for July 4th-5th:

http://www.independencedaybomb.com/

Some have also suggested having it be only July 4th, and that even though some will miss out while they celebrate, it's still best to keep it on one day, and use the most obvious day.

Some have also suggested that the entire July 4th weekend be used. I presume this would be July 2nd-July 4th. This is the conclusion I've come to as well. It includes July 2nd, July 4th, and allows enough time for almost everyone to donate, even without falling on any weekdays.

So, I'm going to include a poll (if I can do it without screwing it up) and include the main options I've heard of, to get a sense of where people are in their thinking around here.

As a side note, and as you can see from my thread title, I think it might be a good fit for the moneybomb to focus on number of doners, instead of as much on amount raised. It would fit in with the Decleration theme. The Tea Party was: They dumped tea, we'll dump cash; This would be: They declared Independence, we'll declare Independence from government largesse/big government/whatever. The theme naturally suggests a list of people, rather than a dollar amount, though I know there probably wouldn't be a live counter expressing the number. Also, the wording is a tiny bit dangerous, since the political class can try to scare people by changing "Independence from Big government" to "Independence from the US government", so I'm not sure what the best wording might be. Maybe "Big spending"? "Deficit spending"? "the political class"? ideas?

Anyway, that was long I know, but I tried to be somewhat comprehensive with the ideas that have been thrown around.

And don't be the first guy to say "You guys can't talk about July 4th until after June 5th!!! RAAWR!!"

Gage
05-10-2011, 11:50 PM
There is already another moneybomb planned, and July 4 is a horrible fundraising day. And having it over multiple days defeats the purpose.

No.

Zack
05-10-2011, 11:53 PM
There is already another moneybomb planned, and July 4 is a horrible fundraising day. And having it over multiple days defeats the purpose.

No.

I know it's tl:dr, but in my defense, that is addressed in the post. It might be interesting to get a more precise response to precise statements.

Also, side not: I know 100,000 is super high and that the most ever is, if I remember correctly around 60,000, but hey, why not?

Gage
05-10-2011, 11:57 PM
I know it's tl:dr, but in my defense, that is addressed in the post. It might be interesting to get a more precise response to precise statements.

Also, side not: I know 100,000 is super high and that the most ever is, if I remember correctly around 60,000, but hey, why not?

I read the entire thing, and trying to ignore the facts doesn't mean you're right.

Zack
05-11-2011, 12:05 AM
I read the entire thing, and trying to ignore the facts doesn't mean you're right.

In this universe, there is an incalculable number of facts I am ignorant of. I don't suspect that any of those are a result of willful ignorance or intellectual dishonesty, though I understand that I am unusual in that regard. Feel free to tell me of what fact you think is the exception, if you wish to.

RPIdeaMan08
05-11-2011, 01:11 AM
I'm dumfounded as to why more people don't list june 30th (on their polls), It's only four score from the fourth you know. It's also the last day before Q1 fundraising totals are due. I say this because these amounts will receive a lot of press coverage and we should capitalize on that. We need a strong group of people to push the final Q1 number higher even If the final day must me the fourth. Also we might as well do the 2nd - 4th time span to generate more coverage and awareness of the money bomb. Regardless we should incorporate the notion that we want the Q1 numbers boosted too. Maybe we go 30th trough the fourth?

Zack
05-11-2011, 11:30 AM
I'm dumfounded as to why more people don't list june 30th (on their polls), It's only four score from the fourth you know. It's also the last day before Q1 fundraising totals are due. I say this because these amounts will receive a lot of press coverage and we should capitalize on that.[/B]

Yeah, I have heard a few people bemoan the timing of July 4th being at the beginning of the 3rd quarter, and it's a good point, but I haven't noticed any movement to actually bump the date to include June 30th, so I didn't think to include that as an option. I have heard people talk about june 30th as a seperate day to try to raise money, but usually as a seperate thing. I also wouldn't be suprised to see the campaign send out an e-mail or something right before the end of the quarter. They often seem to do that.

Also, score is a word that means 20, so four score would be 80, though I think you can be forgiven for the mistake, since it's a pretty uncommon word and in fact I don't think I've heard it used in conversational speech in my entire life, outside of people quoting the emancipation proclamation.

Occam's Banana
05-11-2011, 11:46 AM
Also, score is a word that means 20, so four score would be 80, though I think you can be forgiven for the mistake, since it's a pretty uncommon word and in fact I don't think I've heard it used in conversational speech in my entire life, outside of people quoting the emancipation proclamation.

It was also used in the Gettysburg Address. :)

IDefendThePlatform
05-11-2011, 11:46 AM
I'm 100% behind a July 4th Moneybomb of some sort. I voted for July 4th-5th cuz hardcore people can donate on the 4th and raise $1 million or more, then everybody else can hear about it at work the next day and donate another million.

For me, the biggest benefit to the 4th of July moneybomb is the branding and repetition we will hear for the remainder of the campaign.

"Ron Paul, whose supporters raised 4 million dollars for him on the 4th of July..."

Also, the benefit of what Zack said about bringing in patriotic Americans who weren't previously committed to RP's campaign.


The bigger the better, so IMO, we would be best to promote only the 4th of July from now until then. After that, Ready, Ames, Fire could still go down and do decently well, IMO.

Zack
05-11-2011, 12:23 PM
It was also used in the Gettysburg Address. :)

haha oh yeah. BUT since I didn't capitalize emancipation proclamation, it could be seen as not being a proper noun, and therefore - in a manner of speaking - still be correct! Ah ha! :-P

Occam's Banana
05-11-2011, 12:46 PM
haha oh yeah. BUT since I didn't capitalize emancipation proclamation, it could be seen as not being a proper noun, and therefore - in a manner of speaking - still be correct! Ah ha! :-P
hehe...if by any chance you're a lawyer, I'd like you to be mine if I ever need one! :D

Zack
05-11-2011, 04:36 PM
I'm 100% behind a July 4th Moneybomb of some sort. I voted for July 4th-5th cuz hardcore people can donate on the 4th and raise $1 million or more, then everybody else can hear about it at work the next day and donate another million.

For me, the biggest benefit to the 4th of July moneybomb is the branding and repetition we will hear for the remainder of the campaign.

"Ron Paul, whose supporters raised 4 million dollars for him on the 4th of July..."

Also, the benefit of what Zack said about bringing in patriotic Americans who weren't previously committed to RP's campaign.


The bigger the better, so IMO, we would be best to promote only the 4th of July from now until then. After that, Ready, Ames, Fire could still go down and do decently well, IMO.

Yeah I agree this thing should have a good amount of build up and planning time. I'm working on some ideas for one or two videos, but it would be nice to know what dates I'm even promoting.

I agree there is some potential for synergy in the way you describe. Although I also wonder if the 4th/5th idea doesn't also have a potential catch-22 element to it in the very same way. In that if Monday is a big enough success to provide Tuesday free promotion, then the concerns the holiday seem overstated, and If Monday doesn't do well, Tuesday will be left with little going for it. I'm not sure, and I feel like it could play out in a good way, or maybe a bad way.

The tie-breaker for me is when I imagine myself promoting the moneybomb on videos and elsewhere, and I think of promoting it by calling it a "July 4th/5th" moneybomb, or a "July 4th weekend" moneybomb, and the latter just seems more intuitive and potentially viral to me.

In any event, the main fear I have is that we are going to witness bad precedent come July 4th. The official campaign might push for only late June donations, so they can brag about quarterly numbers, and therefore they would also push the july 19th date, because it doesn't step on the toes of late June. Lyman & Co might push for July 4th/5th, for some of the reasons you and I mention. But it would be a shame if the final date that gets pushed the most isn't the one with a majority consensus among all us lowly RP proles. It would be a shame if the date is chosen in a top-down manner, and the rest of us kind of shrug and say "It's not what most of us wanted, but let's make do with what so-and-so planned on our behalf, since that's the way the wind seems to have blown."

So, I hope some more people answer the poll, so we can get a fuller sampling. To those who haven't given it much thought either way, just give it some thought, consider reading up on the different arguements and making a best guess based on your own beliefs. There are usually good points to be made from differing viewpoints. Our competitive collective intelligence is our best intellectual asset. An "argument from/to authority" can only ever be intellectual and strategic weakness.

Zack
05-12-2011, 08:53 PM
Bigger poll sampling size plz. The poll is currently even a bit more lopsided than I thought it might be, but I still kind of distrust it, because there are too few people throwing in a vote. I'd like to see at least a handful more people, maybe. Thankee

Paul4Prez
05-12-2011, 10:52 PM
The full weekend money bomb is the way to go -- it's going to build momentum all weekend long. Let's start the 3rd quarter off with a bang!

Zack
05-14-2011, 09:38 PM
The full weekend money bomb is the way to go -- it's going to build momentum all weekend long. Let's start the 3rd quarter off with a bang!

I'm about to shoot off an e-mail to both websites linking them to this thread/poll and asking them to consider just that. We are now only 6+ weeks from the start of the weekend, so this isn't some far off date anymore.

Also, now is a good time to vote or make any comments about the dates or style of the promotion of the dates, to those who haven't yet.

runningdiz
05-14-2011, 10:11 PM
there is already a money bomb planned in July http://www.readyamesfire.com/

Already been decided

Zack
05-14-2011, 10:56 PM
there is already a money bomb planned in July http://www.readyamesfire.com/

Already been decided

That's correct, there is an online fundraiser planned for July 19th. I discuss that throughout posts #1 and #12. Specifically commenting on the "been decided" part in the last two paragraphs of post #12. This poll is partly to try to find out if the specific dates thrown around so far are consistant with the Ron Paul Revolution's tradition of competitive collective intelligence in decision making. If not, the intellectual discordance between "the deciders" and everyone else will suck the energy out of everything anyway. It would be one thing if I had the sense that it was all very close and undecided matter, but I kind of don't. I get the general sense that, not just a plurality, but a majority of the people aren't of the same strategic mind as the deciders. If true, that raises a lot of concerns for us in general, and a specific concern for me in the short term, as I might have to decide between toeing the line in a de-energized effort or honoring the whole history of the movement in a way that could potentially create more crossed wires... or sitting things out, so far as extra promotional activities go, cause I worry about doing either.