Sign waving and liberals WILL NOT win the primary election for us!!!

[Matt Collins]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0TCtu0bBtQ&feature=channel_video_title


SOURCE:


http://ronpaultrainer.blogspot.com/2011/04/introduction-to-campaigning-for-ron.html

Campaigning for Ron Paul 2012


So, do you want to be involved to some degree in the upcoming Ron Paul campaign?
If so, here are the basics that you need to learn and don't skip the 6 Essential Rules
of campaigning at the bottom of this note.



1. This campaign will not be won on facebook, gasp!
You will need to get involved with your local Republican party, another gasp!
After all, you will be campaigning first for the Republican nomination. Hence,
you will need to convince actual blue haired old ladies, who only watch Fox News,
that they should vote for the Champion of the Constitution. Yes, it can be done.



2. Find or start your local Meetup group for Ron Paul.
Go explore here: http://www.meetup.com/
(Careful, there might be several groups--some defunct.)



Events

I won't bore you too much in this note, but there are 3 major events you need to plan for.
They involve traveling to Iowa and maybe even New Hampshire. While you probably won't
be able to vote for Dr. Paul at these events. The friends you will meet and the lessons you
will learn about campaigning will change your life. If you plan now, you can ask off work
and adjust your schedule. Don't worry about food and lodging--there will be so many
projects for funding all of that.



Make plans now to attend the Iowa Straw Poll this coming August 13th.

August 13, 2011 - Ames, IA
Ames Straw Poll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ames_Straw_Poll



Later your help will be put into practice during the Iowa Caucus in January? of 2012 or
in New Hampshire. If you are serious about this, just plan now to spend Christmas in
Iowa or New Hampshire.



Okay, here's the important part. The key to being a good campaigner for a political
candidate involves cultivating a basic understanding of marketing and sales. By the way,
it is possible to keep your moral integrity through this process--but it is a tricky, no doubt.
You should never lie and misrepresent the truth--but this doesn't mean you bury your head
in the sand and not learn how TO SELL.



Canvassing is the process by which you interact with an individual, qualify that they are
a likely voter and persuade them to support the candidate you are representing.
The overarching principle to learn is to never show your cards before they show
you their cards. You need to know how to best approach each individual you speak with.



Here are 6 rules to guide you when selling your candidate:


Don't make your issue their issue.
Don't get into debates.
Don't go down rabbit holes.
Don't be afraid to say, "I don't know."
Don't trash-talk other candidates.
When you make a sale, stop selling.



I could write a couple paragraphs on each of these points, but I'll leave it at this for now...
And, wow, number 4 is profound! I'm considering adding a final step of "asking for a
commitment." If you've sold someone on your idea or candidate, you need to involve them
in an action that they can take to fulfill their verbal commitment.
This list was inspired by a video about campaigning for Ron Paul found here:

http://youtu.be/Ib1EEFzRqW4

That's all for tonight.

Aaron
Contact him here: patriotpodium@gmail.com

[jmdrake]

Yah. Sign waving was a waste of time.

[trey4sports]

Great video!

[TheState]

Here's a video from the 2008 campaign that goes over the same points but goes a little more in depth.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_shEnY_lcQI

[acptulsa]

Yah. Sign waving was a waste of time.

Not that anyone who did it back in '08 needs to feel bad about it. I'm more inclined to say 'is' a waste of time than 'was'. At that time, it was a handy way to demonstrate the media blackout.

And as for liberals, they may not help us win the primaries as much as they should, but let's not underestimate our ability to win them over in time for the general election. Of course, if we don't win enough primaries...

[speciallyblend]

If people do not join the gop. Then we are screwed, many in the gop are pretty much hopeless. Hopefully republicans wake up asap or we deserve obama!!

[jmdrake]

Not that anyone who did it back in '08 needs to feel bad about it. I'm more inclined to say 'is' a waste of time than 'was'. At that time, it was a handy way to demonstrate the media blackout.

And as for liberals, they may not help us win the primaries as much as they should, but let's not underestimate our ability to win them over in time for the general election. Of course, if we don't win enough primaries...

Fine. Maybe I should have said "Sticking to sign waving and sign bombs way late into the campaign hoping that someone would 'Google Ron Paul' was a waste of time." We should have transitioned into canvasing and calling sooner.

[acptulsa]

Hopefully republicans wake up asap or we deserve obama!!

The one thing we have going for us is that, more than principle, progress or prosperity, your average Republican loves to put one in the 'W' column. And we can hand them a win, if they hand us a win first.

[sailingaway]

You do what you want Matt, others will do what they/we want.

So many of us DIDN'T come from pools of 'typical primary voters', and Ron Paul's draw in polls is so spread across the spectrum, that it sure seems going after some atypical voters is a good idea to me. Not to detract from the canvassing, but in conjunction with it, and separately. And for ATYPICAL voters, they aren't watching the GOP elections closely at all, so atypical means can sometimes reach them. Occasional sign waves are a reminder, billboards are as well. It is just not ENOUGH.

But again, you should do what you want to do.

However, that was a good list.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

But again, you should do what you want to do.

And if you DON'T WANT to do what has been proven to work, then what you DON'T WANT is Ron Paul sitting in the Whitehouse.

[acptulsa]

And if you DON'T WANT to do what has been proven to work, then what you DON'T WANT is Ron Paul sitting in the Whitehouse.

I feel you, and agree to a point. But things are changing so fast, and we are changing things so fast, that I would add a note of caution. We shouldn't get stuck in our own rut. To do so would be to give up what has been, to this point, one of our greatest advantages--an ability to roll with the flow.

But, yes, we need to get done what must be done.

[Matt Collins]

You do what you want Matt, others will do what they/we want.Sure, but I'm trying to achieve electoral victory, and this is the most effective way to do it.


So many of us DIDN'T come from pools of 'typical primary voters', and Ron Paul's draw in polls is so spread across the spectrum, that it sure seems going after some atypical voters is a good idea to me. That's because you don't understand politics / campaigning 101.


Not to detract from the canvassing, but in conjunction with it, and separately. And for ATYPICAL voters, they aren't watching the GOP elections closely at all, so atypical means can sometimes reach them. Occasional sign waves are a reminder, billboards are as well. It is just not ENOUGH.Except that there are so few of those individuals that it is inefficient to spend time on them, not to mention that it is harder to to get them to vote for Ron than it is the likely Republican voters who will already be voting in a Republican primary. We just ave to convince them to switch their vote to Ron, whereas everyone else has to first be convinced to vote at all, and if they do, to do so in the Republican Primary, and THEN convince them to vote for Ron. It's a multi-step process whereas with the likely Republican voters we just ave to convince them once. We must go after the low hanging fruit, the easiest path to electoral victory, and that is targeting the likely Republican voters.

[acptulsa]

That's because you don't understand politics / campaigning 101.

I've got some polysci 101 for you, Matt. If we had done everything 'by the book' last 'round and this, we wouldn't have gotten as far as we have.

I'm not saying there's no place for conventional thinking and tactics. I'm just saying that when you don't own the media, it will never be enough. That's the wonderful thing about liberty, is that people who are free to act will find a way, despite the obstacles. Isn't it?

I'm not saying there's no such thing as a waste of time and effort. I'm just saying that we had better be inventive. Sometimes the best way to beat a chess master is to just do it wrong. Like British and Commonwealth pilots used to say about the Sopwith Camel in WWI, the enemy never knows what it will do next, which is not at all surprising as very often the Camel pilot is also in considerable doubt.

[Matt Collins]

I've got some polysci 101 for you, Matt. If we had done everything 'by the book' last 'round and this, we wouldn't have gotten as far as we have.
Except that proved not to be true in 2008. Ron actually won a few counties around the country and in Iowa. The counties that he won were won because people DID use proven political methodologies of earning votes.


I'm not saying there's no place for conventional thinking and tactics. I'm just saying that when you don't own the media, it will never be enough. The media can help or hurt, but it can't actually determine the outcome unless we let it. Door to door, direct mail, and phone calling do a lot more to change people's minds, if it's done right, than the media does. Think about it, would you trust your neighbor's opinion or the opinion of the nightly newscaster?


I'm not saying there's no such thing as a waste of time and effort. I'm just saying that we had better be inventive. No, we had better be smart.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Matt is right here.

[ItsTime]

+rep1 We need to focus on what brings us as conservatives together not what divides us. Leave that up to Fox News. Lets not shoot ourselves in the foot!

[acptulsa]

No, we had better be smart.

We can't be inventive and smart at the same time? Why the hell not?

Look your arguments over again, Matt. They're right--absolutely right--but if you step back you'll realize they aren't necessarily enough.

Tolerate, allow room for liberty, and allow yourself to be pleasantly surprised. I say we not only have room for all of the above, but we need all of the above.

[dvictr]

good

[trey4sports]

look, everyone is going to do what they want to do and i respect that. Right now about the only thing i can do is sign-wave! It's too damn early to start making calls and knocking doors but as soon as the campaign is officially off the ground and i have voter lists i will transition into door knocking and phone calling which i believe yields the most results.

There is no need to reinvent the wheel guys. Every modern presidential campaign has been won by conventional, proven campaign methods. So much of winning a presidential campaign is about Identifying support and GOTV, if we can put all our energy and might into that we can win!

[libertybrewcity]

agreed sign waving is a waste of time, and I have been saying that converting liberals is a waste of time too for a while now.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?282811-Not-Progressives-REPUBLICANS.

[BuddyRey]

I'm getting a bit wary of people taking it upon themselves to define what our strategy should or should not be. Some people who believe in our cause will be more suited to politicking, flesh-pressing, rubbing elbows, and steering the party toward our message from the inner ranks, and that's terrific; we absolutely need those organization-minded folks to advance. But that's just not everybody's bag...some people would prefer programming websites, writing songs, hosting vlogs, designing banners, and other non-political contributions...that's okay too; we need those guys just as much. A bottom-up approach worked well for us this time, and now, we'll have the advantage of folks who can help us coordinate from the top down as well. Do your own thing; that's not just our philosophical credo, but our eventual recipe for political and moral victory as well.

[Matt Collins]

I'm getting a bit wary of people taking it upon themselves to define what our strategy should or should not be. It's called experience. How many elections have you had a hand in winning? Me, I've had a hand in winning 5 Republican elections since 2008.


But that's just not everybody's bag...some people would prefer programming websites, writing songs, hosting vlogs, designing banners, and other non-political contributions... But those activities don't achieve electoral victory.

[libertybrewcity]

I'm getting a bit wary of people taking it upon themselves to define what our strategy should or should not be. Some people who believe in our cause will be more suited to politicking, flesh-pressing, rubbing elbows, and steering the party toward our message from the inner ranks, and that's terrific; we absolutely need those organization-minded folks to advance. But that's just not everybody's bag...some people would prefer programming websites, writing songs, hosting vlogs, designing banners, and other non-political contributions...that's okay too; we need those guys just as much. A bottom-up approach worked well for us this time, and now, we'll have the advantage of folks who can help us coordinate from the top down as well. Do your own thing; that's not just our philosophical credo, but our eventual recipe for political and moral victory as well.

there is nothing wrong with the grassroots trying to channel the grassroots into the most productive form of campaigning.

[Sentinelrv]

This video is probably something that should be posted in the persuasion and influence board also. That's what that board is dedicated to.

[dannno]

I really think it depends on where you live, I agree the OP is true for most areas.

I live in an area where I went out and canvassed my precinct and ended up getting over 20% of Republicans to vote for Ron Paul.. but there were literally TEN TIMES AS MANY DEMOCRATS than Republicans who voted in my precinct... so if I had convinced 2% of the Democrats in my precinct to switch over and vote for Ron Paul, I would have had the same result. If I had gotten 5% of Democrats to switch over to Republican and vote Ron Paul, that would have been well over 50% for Ron Paul without even touching the Republican base.

It's pretty hard to get motivated to talk to such a small percentage of the population here.

[UtahApocalypse]

I personally convert 16 voters at sign waves directly. They may not be the best option, they do have a place though

[BuddyRey]

It's called experience. How many elections have you had a hand in winning? Me, I've had a hand in winning 5 Republican elections since 2008.

We're all very proud of your achievements here at RPF's. However, your successes don't necessarily negate the value and worthiness of other approaches, or diminish the impact that less visible, grassroots efforts have had.

[PineGroveDave]

We must go after the low hanging fruit, the easiest path to electoral victory, and that is targeting the likely Republican voters.
Spot on...Which is why I started that thread in the Strategy forum about getting involved with the local Republican Party HQ meetings. The first battle is to get the Republican Party to embrace RP. Without the backing of the Republican Party, RP is destined to lose the Primary. We definitely need to be focusing on Republicans right now.

[specsaregood]

//

[PaulConventionWV]

If people do not join the gop. Then we are screwed, many in the gop are pretty much hopeless. Hopefully republicans wake up asap or we deserve obama!!

Ron Paul has one of the lowest "unfavorable" ratings out of any of the GOP candidates. We can win over Republicans AND Democrats. All I'm saying is, I had a poll yesterday that showed less than 30% (!) of people on this forum were Republicans before supporting Ron Paul. People from other parties CAN be won over and should not be viewed as a waste of time.

As for canvassing, going door to door, etc., maybe it is best to target Republicans, but many of you have Democrat friends or friends who know democrats. It doesn't hurt to try to get in touch with them and get them to change over.

[tmg19103]

Mix it up. There is some good campaign 101 stuff here - which needs to be done assuming RP does well in IA and NH.

Also does not mean we can't think outside of the box and be creative like last campaign. As a matter-of-fact, I expect it as that creates the real enthusiasm.

RP supporters are no doubt all not alike.

What I think we can all agree on is that Meetups need to be brought out of mothballs ASAP.

Within each Meetup, have members work to their strengths. Some can focus on GOP voters and local Republican party committees while others focus on the unique and creative marketing ideas.

Have days where everyone in the Meetup focuses on one and then the other, understanding not all will want to certain things, which is fine.

However, assuming RP hits the ground running and does well in the Ames straw poll, there does need to be a concerted focus in IA and NH to reach out directly to establishment GOP voters.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

It's called experience. How many elections have you had a hand in winning? Me, I've had a hand in winning 5 Republican elections since 2008.

Oh please. Somehow I don't see Rand Paul having come to you for serious strategic campaign advice, especially after the primary when McConnell and the NRSC's people came in. Were you the "run to QuikTrip and get us all some fountain drinks" guy? :rolleyes:

But yes: democrats/liberals/progressives are not people we should be focusing on.

[IndianaPolitico]

During the last election cycle, there was a county wide race that drew ALOT of attention. The candidate I supported won, even though the establishment didn't support him. How did this campaign win? The first is they had a message, and that resonated with voters. But the thing that tipped the scales in our direction was door to door canvassing! We hit around 5,000 or more doors in the county, and the candidate alone hit over 1,000 in the last week before the primary. I believe that sign waves are a great way to build name ID. But the way to bring out the votes is going door to door.

[sailingaway]

During the last election cycle, there was a county wide race that drew ALOT of attention. The candidate I supported won, even though the establishment didn't support him. How did this campaign win? The first is they had a message, and that resonated with voters. But the thing that tipped the scales in our direction was door to door canvassing! We hit around 5,000 or more doors in the county, and the candidate alone hit over 1,000 in the last week before the primary. I believe that sign waves are a great way to build name ID. But the way to bring out the votes is going door to door.

We HAVE to go door to door, but it isn't time for that yet. We CAN help build buzz and get people to look into him who don't usually pay attention. We need people to register GOP and need to reach them.

Take a look at the poll here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?291796-What-party-did-you-belong-to-before-you-started-supporting-Ron-Paul

[Matt Collins]

Oh please. Somehow I don't see Rand Paul having come to you for serious strategic campaign advice, especially after the primary when McConnell and the NRSC's people came in. Were you the "run to QuikTrip and get us all some fountain drinks" guy? :rolleyes:No actually, and your ignorance is showing.

When Rand was toying with the idea of running, I was practically his first phone call. That's well documented here in the forums if you go back and search my first posts about Rand. During the rest of the primary I was around here and there, even serving as an official representative for his campaign on election day. During the primary campaign, my opinion was sought on such matters such as volunteers, the grassroots, blogging, social networking, and fundraising. There is a whole lot more, but really that's all you need to know for now.

[ForLibertyFight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_shEnY_lcQI&feature=channel_video_title

[nayjevin]

Anyone capable of walking and talking should be canvassing and working on GOTV (Get Out The Vote) efforts as much as possible. It should be the #1 focus for those who can do it effectively and with a positive state of mind.

However, there are those who wouldn't be good at it, or would not do it in a positive state of mind. There's something to be said about getting out of one's comfort zone to do what is right - but it is also counter-productive to look down upon those who would seek other methods of doing what they see fit.

[KurtBoyer25L]

No actually, and your ignorance is showing.

When Rand was toying with the idea of running, I was practically his first phone call. That's well documented here in the forums if you go back and search my first posts about Rand. During the rest of the primary I was around here and there, even serving as an official representative for his campaign on election day. During the primary campaign, my opinion was sought on such matters such as volunteers, the grassroots, blogging, social networking, and fundraising. There is a whole lot more, but really that's all you need to know for now.

I'm sure I can speak for the forum that we're all very appreciative of your work to date, and I'm very sympathetic of your situation with Mr. Ramsey and your employment. I also respect your position on this topic.

My problem is that you have been personally insulting to those with a different position. You tell us we're ignorant, foolish & closedminded, or in my case a "brick wall" of stubborn mental dysfunction. I don't care if you're Rand's campaign advisor, Jimmy Page's best friend or Madonna's agent. It is rude and unfair. If you treat rank-and-file constituents the way you treat forum members, I do hope you abstain from going door-to-door personally.

So we focus on Likely GOP Primary Voters and everyone else is a waste of time. I get the 1st part. But the 2nd seems to defy common sense & recent history. First, there is no perfect way to determine who exactly a Likely GOP Primary Voter is. Surely, whether one voted in the 2008 primary factors in this categorizing?

President Obama beat Hillary Clinton in a very closely contested Democratic primary in 2008. Obama's campaign spent a LOT of time at college campuses, registering indy left-leaning students to vote for Barack. I'm pretty sure many of the students were NOT considered in the category of "Likely Democrat Primary Voters" because they were in 8th grade or High School the previous election cycle. Yet nobody would argue that young voters had no effect on the Obama/Clinton primary outcome, or that Obama was wasting his time. His campaign turned out, er, moderately successful.

And what were big campus talking points in 2007? War, weed, and civil liberties. Hmm.

College kids are just one example of "hidden" potential Ron voters. There are independents. Libertarians. Anarchists. Pragmatic progressives. Weed smokers. Disgruntled former Obamabots.

Nobody is saying it's easy to get these votes. It takes specially motivated people to want to jump through the "three hoops" you keep bringing up. I understand that. But consider:

About 120,000 people voted in the 2008 Iowa caucus. This cycle there is a glut of GOP candidates with big names and big resources, and you have the recent natl. poll with Huckabee leading at 16%. The votes will be spread around with nobody likely to carry 30% again. This means that a 10,000, or even 5,000 or 2,000 vote contribution from a sub-group could be a BIG DEAL. There are over 2,000,000 citizens in Iowa old enough to vote; are you saying if we add up Iowa's politically motivated/activist independents, Libertarians, Anarchists, Progressives and other fringe political groups we don't have at least 10,000 individuals who might feel specially motivated to vote Ron? That's .005% of the 18+ population.

Hell, probably just those Iowans who self-identify as Libertarian would comprise at least 5,000 people or .0025% of eligible voters. Do you not think a substantial # of Libertarians will register GOP and vote in the Iowa Caucus to support Ron Paul, the first libertarian candidate in fifty years with an actual chance to win the damn thing?? Really???

The Likely GOP Only strategy seems to account for only a static view of who votes. Many RP contributors who will vote in 2012 were Independents or Democrats before being turned on to Ron in '07 or '08. Polls on the site have shown this. It's like you're saying if we weren't already Likely (and former?) GOP Primary Voters in 2007, or already members of the Republican party in 2007, we don't exist. We're simply freaks, anomalies of a statistics game that we could never have a meaningful effect on. I find that insulting, and out of touch with my personal experience and that of others. I've converted over 15 independents & Democrats I know, based solely on the issues. Those people do matter. Everybody makes a difference.

Finally, as others have pointed out, some of us are just more comfortable & effective with non-Republicans. I don't do well with ignorance & flippant red-meat rhetoric. Even some Tea Party members I've spoken to will mock Ron Paul immediately, or accuse me of being a pothead or a ***** terrorist-lover. The independents have been open-minded & often quick to join up with Ron. This might be anomalous experiential evidence, but it's what I have to go on in finding the best way *I* personally can help the campaign.

So if you find it fruitless despite all of this reasoning, OK. But don't turn "open source" campaigning into "open sores" campaigning. I'm a big kid and I can stomach a flame or two, but it scares off new lurkers for one. And yes, new RP fans of all political backgrounds visit the internet every day, even if your playbook says that only the Republican ones exist.

[Thargok]

look, everyone is going to do what they want to do and i respect that. Right now about the only thing i can do is sign-wave! It's too damn early to start making calls and knocking doors but as soon as the campaign is officially off the ground and i have voter lists i will transition into door knocking and phone calling which i believe yields the most results.

There is no need to reinvent the wheel guys. Every modern presidential campaign has been won by conventional, proven campaign methods. So much of winning a presidential campaign is about Identifying support and GOTV, if we can put all our energy and might into that we can win!

You should be coalition building instead of sign waving, although sign waving my help you with that make sure that you have contacted all the grassroots people in your area up and running. Also you are selling a candidate so touching the same people over and over doesn't hurt, especially if you are polite and patient. Effectively the more you visit the same people (within reason) the better chance they have of considering Ron if not challenging their views.


Speak for your own area. Here in south jersey we were canvassing early in the summer of '07 and calling by mid-fall.
In the end, it didn't make a damn bit of difference. You can't win without the media.

Well you have media so get over it, this is what wins campaigns. Trust me if Ron Paul could win by collecting cereal UPCs I would tell you do that that. But there is no reason to waste resources on something that makes you look silly. Also I would love to see how much media attention a signwave gets as opposed to winning states.


Oh please. Somehow I don't see Rand Paul having come to you for serious strategic campaign advice, especially after the primary when McConnell and the NRSC's people came in. Were you the "run to QuikTrip and get us all some fountain drinks" guy? :rolleyes:


Well the primary was more important than the general in all honesty and there was never a question almost every person who had any clout in the campaign all had the same strategy, GOTV and targeting. In fact there was never a single sign-wave promoted by the campaign aside from the debates which were really just to show presence to the media. I can't say what insight Matt gave to the campaign, I cannot be certain. I can say that he spent a fair amount of time in Bowling Green during the primary and certainly made calls then as well as spent roughly a week in the GOP office during the general election.

If you want to know exactly what "McConnell's strategy" was (which is really the NRSC strategy) it is a ridiculous amount of phone calls followed by phonecalls which then leads to phonecalls a bathroom break and about 16 million more phone calls. In fact they tried (and probably succeed) to call every single Democrat household in KY.

__________________________________________________ ________________

I don't have to respond to the rest, in all honestly sign waves are kinda creepy, it doesn't sell a brand, they come off as fanatical almost cult like. People are more apt to listen to a person who they can relate to than somebody who comes off as a zealot. People care about their family, friends, jobs and security more than they care about politics, so if you aren't framing politics as it relates to those issues you just look crazy.

If you need a real life example, look at something similar. Sign spinning is an effective guerrilla marketing campaign... for food. You won't find people spinning signs for insurance companies, financial planners, healthcare providers, real estate companies, etc. It is effective for a real quick "hey you want this" reminder so people are like "yes I could go for a pizza". However it doesn't effectively state "you should check me out online when you get home because you never know what you might need in 7 months." Which is precisely why sign waving is a waste of time for candidates, at least until electioneering laws are thrown out and you can hold a sign 4 inches from someone as they vote.

[R3volutionJedi]

Here's a video from the 2008 campaign that goes over the same points but goes a little more in depth.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_shEnY_lcQI

Great video! Great examples.

[acptulsa]

Sweet post, Kurt. I like it.

MATT: Here's the deal, son. I'll believe everything you say and jump on your polysci bandwagon, and denounce both liberals and waving signs while I'm at it, if you can convince me that selling Ron Paul and selling John McCain are exactly, precisely the same, and there's not a whisker's worth of difference between the two products. Now, since I first registered under a major party after more than a score of years voting as an independent and voted in my first primary in 2008 after voting in about a dozen general elections, I don't think you're going to convince me of anything that silly. But, hey, you can try.

What is this movement about? Liberty, was it? Why do we love liberty again? Because liberty leads tot he kind of free-thinking innovation that made this nation what it is--the Greatest? Is that what we're fighting for? Could have sworn it was what I was fighting for...

If everybody could do what you do, you wouldn't be Teh Collinz. True statement. Now, I've stroked your ego for you and given you an excuse to post a picture of yourself. Now, go back and learn a polysci 101 lesson you missed: If someone is volunteering to do something that could even get you just three votes, the first rule of politics is don't look the gift horse in the mouth--smile and be grateful like a human being and lay off the arrogance.

Can't believe those disgruntled Nashville Republicans taught you nothing useful about humility. You may be good and all, but I'll be damned if you can win this election all by your little lonesome.

[Thargok]

If someone is volunteering to do something that could even get you just three votes, the first rule of politics is don't look the gift horse in the mouth

I guess you could use a savings account for retirement instead of investing... but why would you want to? Unfortunately three votes doesn't win elections, you actually need people to volunteer to get like 100-500 votes. Like I said before this is horrible advertising, it may actually hurt Ron more than it helps and it is a complete and utter waste of resources. You might as well memorize Shakespeare for Ron Paul, in fact you could have a meetup for it.

Now don't get me wrong, I appreciate enthusiasm, but it seems like some people care more about sign waving than actually winning which means you are unfortunately on the wrong forum.

[sailingaway]

Oh, come on, sign wavings do not HURT. Other campaigns were trying to copy them and couldn't get the volunteers. If MORE is done out of enthusiasm, it is good. Doing it INSTEAD of GOTV or getting involved in the GOP would be a mistake. I don't think anyone clicked on the forum poll I posted but please see where Ron's polled support on this forum came from:


View Poll Results: Which party did you identify with before supporting RP?

Voters 185.

Democrat 34 votes 18.38%

Republican 54 votes 29.19%

Independent 34 votes 18.38%

other 27 votes 14.59%

not a registered voter 36 votes 19.46%

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?291796-What-party-did-you-belong-to-before-you-started-supporting-Ron-Paul

You can say that is unscientific, but daily kos had their pollster poll support across the spectrum and Ron had only slightly more in the GOP than in all other groups, as well, and only slightly less with Democrats than with independents. He particularly cleans up with independents (confirmed by Rasmussen and PPP as well) and if we don't get at least a significant segment of his 'outside the gop' support in the gop to vote, he is not going to win the primary imho.

Ron Paul is not your basic mannequin candidate, and benefits from an extraordinary campaign.

Having said that, GOTV is the absolute most vital thing we are going to need when that is needed. I phone banked for Rand from California, and I will hit the pavements and phone bank for Ron.

But don't squelch people's enthusiasm. It gives them the fun part to make the gotv go down better, and catches the attention of people like me who frankly won't speak to people knocking on my door or calling about candidates. (Big city. When I lived in rural Illinois people weren't constantly doing it.)

[acptulsa]

Now don't get me wrong, I appreciate enthusiasm, but it seems like some people care more about sign waving than actually winning which means you are unfortunately on the wrong forum.

Well, when you're trying to make the point that the media considers your imminently qualified candidate He Who Must Not Be Named, and that he's worth being enthusiastic about, sign waves are just the ticket. Just the ticket. Wow, this guy inspires enthusiasm--I haven't felt that about a damned politician since... Can I remember? Yet I haven't heard of him. Why?

Now, I'm not saying the time for this hasn't passed. I suspect it has passed, and we need to move on to greater things. But I'll be damned if I'm going to say something even vaguely insulting to someone because they tell me, 'I waved a sign!' No way, Charlie.

Thing about volunteers as resources is, what resources? A good volunteer is a resource, yes. But if you can only get a volunteer to agree to do this particular thing, this is a resource? Or just a person yearing to breathe free that you are equally free to ignore? What resources? A volunteer isn't a resource until they show resourcefulness.

We preach tolerance and liberty. We sell tolerance and liberty. We are dedicated to tolerance and liberty. How 'bout we practice them? 'Cause there are voters out there that I don't know how to win over. And I'll just bet that if you told me how to win them over, I'd probably think to myself, nah, no one would respond to that.' Which is why I don't know how to win them over. So please don't ask my approval before you go win them over. Thanks.

[jmdrake]

Speak for your own area. Here in south jersey we were canvassing early in the summer of '07 and calling by mid-fall.
In the end, it didn't make a damn bit of difference. You can't win without the media.

And sign waving gives you "media"? We had 200 people marching through downtown Nashville carrying signs New Years Eve 2007. We didn't get a single bit of news coverage. I'm glad you were out canvasing even before the Ron Paul campaign to its act together and set up the precinct program and got you voter lists. Anyway, if we're going to go with the "it didn't make a damn bit of difference" argument doesn't that apply to sign waving as well? But hey, if you want to go sign wave go ahead.

[jmdrake]

I'm not even sure why this thread is controversial. If folks want to sign wave, go sign wave. But if that's the focus this time, like it was for many of us last time, then expect the same results. What frustrated me is that locally we could get 200 people to show up and march but couldn't get that many to sign up to be precinct captains. We didn't even fill all of the precinct captain slots. I'm fairly certain ours was not the only area with that problem.

[acptulsa]

What frustrated me is that locally we could get 200 people to show up and march but couldn't get that many to sign up to be precinct captains. We didn't even fill all of the precinct captain slots. I'm fairly certain ours was not the only area with that problem.

An excellent and valid point neatly and succinctly made without insulting one single person. Nicely done, my friend. Way to move the conversation forward.

[Roxi]

*Admittedly I am posting before reading through all the replies.


Thats Aaron! I know that guy, he is smart, and was a good volunteer in NH for OLFD. I agree with the most everything he says in the video.


Here is the thing though. He and most of you are right, getting involved is important! Networking in person through the GOP is important! GOTV is important!! It is what wins elections.

However! There are people out there who want to contribute something to the movement but getting out and going to GOP meetings just isn't their thing... maybe they don't fit in, or they look weird (in the eyes of many traditional republicans) or they don't own nice clothes, or they are terrible at talking to people, or they don't have a car, or they have 6 kids, or they are really poor. Or they have tourettes, or asburgers... There are lots of reasons why someone wouldn't be a great person to get heavily involved in the GOP. Maybe these people are really good at making videos, or building websites, or networking online, or making banners in their garage, standing on the corner with a sign, just donating money or other non political contributions. These people are no less valuable to the movement than anyone else. They contribute where they can. These people shouldn't be discounted as a waste of time. We should all appreciate everyones contribution where they can give it.

Just pointing that out.

[Matt Collins]

I'll believe everything you say and jump on your polysci bandwagon, and denounce both liberals and waving signs while I'm at it, if you can convince me that selling Ron Paul and selling John McCain are exactly, precisely the same, and there's not a whisker's worth of difference between the two products.Of course the products are different, but the rules of marketing still apply. Selling underware and selling CDs is the same thing even though the product itself is apples and oranges. Marketing is marketing regardless of what you are marketing. Selling is selling regardless of what you are selling.

Proven marketing and selling tactics work regardless of the product. Remember McCain and Rand Paul both won their respective primaries using conventional and proven methods. Can you name a candidate who has won a major Republican primary using unconventional methods?




If everybody could do what you do, you wouldn't be Teh Collinz. True statement. Now, I've stroked your ego for you and given you an excuse to post a picture of yourself. Now, go back and learn a polysci 101 lesson you missed: If someone is volunteering to do something that could even get you just three votes, the first rule of politics is don't look the gift horse in the mouth--smile and be grateful like a human being and lay off the arrogance.Of course, always grateful for volunteers. But if they aren't being effective then it's just a social club. The goal is to teach them what works so that they are empowered themselves. If I allowed people to continue to spin their wheels without imparting the knowledge of how to gain more traction then I would be at fault for not helping them out. Teach a man to fish and all that...

[specsaregood]

And sign waving gives you "media"? We had 200 people marching through downtown Nashville carrying signs New Years Eve 2007. We didn't get a single bit of news coverage. I'm glad you were out canvasing even before the Ron Paul campaign to its act together and set up the precinct program and got you voter lists. Anyway, if we're going to go with the "it didn't make a damn bit of difference" argument doesn't that apply to sign waving as well? But hey, if you want to go sign wave go ahead.

You and Thargok misunderstood my post. I wasn't saying we should do sign waves instead of knocking on doors. I was saying that not all groups were wasting their time doing them. :) Last time around it didn't make all that much of a difference and I think one could argue that the sign waving was just as effective as door knocking, simply because of the low name recognition Dr. Paul had in '07 and lack of media attention. Yes, things have changed and I plan on knocking on lots of doors again, except this time I'll also be pushing a stroller and using my cute kid to woo the old ladies answering the doors.

[jmdrake]

An excellent and valid point neatly and succinctly made without insulting one single person. Nicely done, my friend. Way to move the conversation forward.

Thank you!


*Admittedly I am posting before reading through all the replies.


Thats Aaron! I know that guy, he is smart, and was a good volunteer in NH for OLFD. I agree with the most everything he says in the video.


Here is the thing though. He and most of you are right, getting involved is important! Networking in person through the GOP is important! GOTV is important!! It is what wins elections.

However! There are people out there who want to contribute something to the movement but getting out and going to GOP meetings just isn't their thing... maybe they don't fit in, or they look weird (in the eyes of many traditional republicans) or they don't own nice clothes, or they are terrible at talking to people, or they don't have a car, or they have 6 kids, or they are really poor. Or they have tourettes, or asburgers... There are lots of reasons why someone wouldn't be a great person to get heavily involved in the GOP. Maybe these people are really good at making videos, or building websites, or networking online, or making banners in their garage, standing on the corner with a sign, just donating money or other non political contributions. These people are no less valuable to the movement than anyone else. They contribute where they can. These people shouldn't be discounted as a waste of time. We should all appreciate everyones contribution where they can give it.

Just pointing that out.

Good points. However I should point out that in your response you mentioned a lot of alternatives besides sign waving. It's true not everyone can do everything. Personally I hate cold calling. I can stand in front of a crowd of over 1,000 people and speak without breaking a sweat. I have no problem calling into radio shows. I'm fine with going door to door. But when I call someone's home that I do not know I feel like I'm intruding. I guess when I go door to door the eye contact makes a difference, plus people seem appreciative when you are making that much of an effort to reach them. That said some people are GREAT at cold calling. A good precinct team would include both cold callers and door knockers.

Now let's take the worst case volunteer scenario from the challenges you mentioned. Say if a poor person with tourretts and 6 kids wanted to help. What other effective things could he do? Well writing letters or postcards to potential voters might be a good thing. Even his kids could help. Imagine children sending out a postcard like this in their own handwriting.

"Dear Mr./Ms. X. You don't know me, but my name is Johnny and I'm 9 years old and in the 3rd grade. I saw some people on TV saying that we might be at war for the next 100 years. I don't want to go to war. I saw some people saying that even my great grandchildren will be paying off debts that politicians are running up today. i don't think that's fair. And I don't like the TSA touching other little children before they get on a plane. Would you please considering voting for someone that would stop all of this? My dad says Ron Paul is against those things and I believe my dad. But since you don't know my dad, could you go to RonPaul2012.com and see for yourself? Do it for the children!"

Or they could help burn and/or label Ron Paul 2012 DVDs. Or drop them off at laundry mats and barbershops. Or write letters to the editor. Or stuff Ron Paul material into doorhangers or mailers. There is just so much stuff people can do to help out that goes beyond sign waiving.

Also there is nothing wrong with spreading the message among liberals if it's done soon enough for them to be able to get into the GOP primary and if you make a convincing enough case.

See: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?92475-Stumping-for-Ron-Paul-at-the-gas-station.

[Slutter McGee]

This whole arguement about who to target is ridiculous. Because you are all correct, depending on the primary structure of the state in question. Is it an open primary? In that case targeting democrats is ok as part of the general strategy.

Is it a closed primary? In that case Collins is correct and targeting democrats as part of an overall strategy IS a waste of time. Notice I said "overall", because I see no problem with targeting dems on an individual personal basis.

As far as sign waving goes, we should focus more on different things. Signs are about name ID. Ron Paul had none four years ago. Signs were a good thing then. Now he does have name ID. Time to work on something more. That doesn't mean it is a complete waste of time. Just a waste if the focus of the movement is dedicated to it like it was four years ago.

Slutter McGee

[Matt Collins]

Last time around it didn't make all that much of a difference and I think one could argue that the sign waving was just as effective as door knocking, simply because of the low name recognition Dr. Paul had in '07 and lack of media attention. But that simply isn't true because door knocking is HOW voters find out about your candidate. That's the whole point is to inform your likely voters about your candidate, and door knocking accomplishes this, sign waving does not.

Now, ideally, your likely voters will have received some mail pieces before you ever get to them, or maybe some phone calls, and that way they have your candidates name in their head. That makes it easier, but even if not, door knocking is still the most effective way to campaign.



Yes, things have changed and I plan on knocking on lots of doors again, except this time I'll also be pushing a stroller and using my cute kid to woo the old ladies answering the doors.Now that is VERY effective! I've seen some candidates send their kids around knocking on doors (slave labor LOL) and it gets a vote EVERY time ;-)

[acptulsa]

Is it a closed primary? In that case Collins is correct and targeting democrats as part of an overall strategy IS a waste of time. Notice I said "overall", because I see no problem with targeting dems on an individual personal basis.

Even this--even this, which is so obvious on the face of it--isn't a given this round, with so many liberals so very, very disgusted with the Democratic Party, Obama, Vilsack as Ag Sec, and a Third Simultaneous War. Even in closed states, we will convince some people to switch registrations this year.

We need to be very, very careful to avoid absolutes in this time of dissatisfaction and flux. A revolution is a messy thing. A conscience can move anyone. Never, ever say never.

[jmdrake]

Even this--even this, which is so obvious on the face of it--isn't a given this round, with so many liberals so very, very disgusted with the Democratic Party, Obama, Vilsack as Ag Sec, and a Third Simultaneous War. Even in closed states, we will convince some people to switch registrations this year.

We need to be very, very careful to avoid absolutes in this time of dissatisfaction and flux. A revolution is a messy thing. A conscience can move anyone. Never, ever say never.

This time around you might be able to convince some democrats to "strategically vote" for Ron Paul in the primary, since Obama isn't running, based on 2 ideas. 1) They might think Ron Paul is the easiest candidate to beat. (Don't ruin their illusions by pointing out the CNN poll). 2) They might realize that having an antiwar republican is actually a good thing because that would force Obama to move to the left on this particular issue in the general election.

[Thargok]

The problem is that it is impossible to get people to vote, not to mention in a primary. This is merely a numbers game, if you gain a vote by taking it away from "the frontrunner" you effectively gain two votes. On top of that they are not theoretical votes, they are people you know will turn out and vote. This is why GOTV is so important as opposed to trying to register people to vote.

At best a quarter of registered voters participate in primaries, where GOTV efforts can target people who vote every single primary.

[Matt Collins]

Even this--even this, which is so obvious on the face of it--isn't a given this round, with so many liberals so very, very disgusted with the Democratic Party, Obama, Vilsack as Ag Sec, and a Third Simultaneous War. Even in closed states, we will convince some people to switch registrations this year.What % of Republican voters will be disgruntled Democrats? :confused: Please quantify this number. :rolleyes:

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Matt, I agree with much of what you're saying, but you seem to be issuing blanket statements that don't apply to every area. We had our first meeting last night. I am the organizer. We are all agreeing on a strategy to get Democrats to register Republican and vote in the primary for Ron Paul. We are not focussed on "likely Republican voters", because we could call all the "likely Republican voters" in our area in an afternoon, but it's going to take us 14 months to door-knock every Democrat, and that's our strategy. If we lived in East Texas, we'd be doing what you suggest, but this is a bastion of liberal Democrats in Colorado. Horses for courses.

But, yes, sign waving is a complete waste of time and we will not be doing any sign waving this year unless someone else takes the initiative to do it. If sign-waving worked, Ron Paul would have won the Presidency by a landslide in 2008.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Oh, and here, it was amazing to watch a city go from having 40% saturation of cars with Obama stickers on them to about 5% today.

There ARE PLENTY of disgruntled Democrats. And maybe you can't reach them, but I can.

[acptulsa]

What % of Republican voters will be disgruntled Democrats? :confused: Please quantify this number. :rolleyes:

We will deliver what we can. And, yes, we will deliver them. No way to quantify until the day comes. But they will be there--especially in the several states with open primaries.

I got my Magic Eight Ball out now, Collins. Crossover primary voters. Don't know how many yet, but you'll be taking more than you expect to the bank. Tuesday, Five-and-Dime 2011. Write it down. You will have more than you expect.


There ARE PLENTY of disgruntled Democrats. And maybe you can't reach them, but I can.

Just because Teh Collinz can't get 'em doesn't mean you'll be working alone.

[Matt Collins]

No way to quantify until the day comes. This is science not voodoo which means hard math must exist. If you don't know what your numbers are then you are wasting your time because you don't know what is possible and what to aim for.

[acptulsa]

This is science not voodoo which means hard math must exist. If you don't know what your numbers are then you are wasting your time because you don't know what is possible and what to aim for.

The people who drilled the first well in the Glen Pool didn't know what they were aiming for either. They had no way to quantify the riches beneath their feet until they woke up one day sixty years later and realized they were still getting royalties for oil pumped out of that hole.

Your statement is ludicrous on one level. Physicists are among the first to tell you not to try to quantify anything, make an equation to explain anything, or even make assumptions about what it all means until you do the experiment. If you know what the results will be before you do the experiment, you're wasting your time repeating someone else's experiment. Ron Paul is anything but a repeat of someone else's experiment.

I'm working my voodoo, and I'm doing it because much as you like to believe your little science complete, omniscient and infallible, it's the 'scientists' afraid of failure who fail to break new ground and write the new equations that will be in the 2013 edition of the textbook. So, I'm working the voodoo, and my Magic Eight Ball has spoken.

Did you mark my words like I told you to?

[acptulsa]

You're going to be hearing I Told You So, Matt. First time we get a chance to compare open primary vs. closed primary numbers, and this round to last round.

[Thargok]

This isn't about quantitive value this is about qualitative value. 25% of those who register vote in a given primary, 94% of people who voted in the last 6 primaries vote in a given primary. A new voter accounts for a single vote, a swing voter potentially counts as a loss for one candidate and a vote for Ron.

Recruiting isn't a bad thing, it just isn't enough, you need to get people that actually vote.

[LibertyEagle]

Last go round, many of us were political neophytes, so we promoted Ron Paul the best way we could dream up. It was great. But now, we aren't so innocent and we now know that a number of us must get involved in the Republican party, canvass and get out the vote for Ron Paul to have a chance in hell. That's not to say that this is all we do, but it most certainly is the tried and true way to get someone elected to office.

That is how Barry Goldwater, Sr. grabbed the Republican nomination out from under the noses of the big government Rockefeller Republicans. They learned the political game for getting someone elected and played it better than the other guys. And then they smothered them with sheer numbers of supporting voters.

[jmdrake]

This is science not voodoo which means hard math must exist. If you don't know what your numbers are then you are wasting your time because you don't know what is possible and what to aim for.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3305821
Source : AP
COLUMBUS, OHIO (AP) -- Newly released numbers show that about 8 percent of the Democrats who voted in Ohio's March 4 presidential primary previously voted Republican.

Secretary of State records obtained by The Associated Press on Monday from most of Ohio's counties show that four out of five voters who switched parties in the election went from Republican to Democrat.

Republican John McCain's presumed presidential nomination was nearly secure when Ohio had its election. About 173,000 Republicans asked for a ballot in the highly competitive Democratic race between Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama.

Overall, the number of Democratic votes was more than double the number of Republican votes.
Read more: http://www.wnwo.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=133037


Note that this is more than 3 times the number of votes Ron Paul got in Ohio in 2008.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/candidates/#302
(Ron got 50,964).

The total Hillary got was 1,259,620.

Now granted the 173K crossover voters are "presumed Republican", but only because they voted in the Republican primary in 2004. But consider this. There will be no democratic presidential primary this time. That means that millions of potential primary swing voters are up for grabs. Maybe some of these will like Ron Paul. Maybe some will simply see this as a way to keep some other republican they don't like out of the general election. Maybe they (wrongly) think Ron Paul is the easiest candidate to beat. But dismissing crossover voters apriori is not a good campaign strategy. Sure concentrate on likely republican voters, but keep an eye out for swing voters.

[jmdrake]

You and Thargok misunderstood my post. I wasn't saying we should do sign waves instead of knocking on doors. I was saying that not all groups were wasting their time doing them. :) Last time around it didn't make all that much of a difference and I think one could argue that the sign waving was just as effective as door knocking, simply because of the low name recognition Dr. Paul had in '07 and lack of media attention. Yes, things have changed and I plan on knocking on lots of doors again, except this time I'll also be pushing a stroller and using my cute kid to woo the old ladies answering the doors.

I'm glad your group was ahead of the curve. :) And great strategy on the cute kids. We really need to reach those old ladies this time!

Something just occurred to me. If we had had our act together, when 200 people showed up to march with signs downtown we should have been prepared to sign (no pun intended) each of them up to be a precinct captain or to do something else useful for the campaign. If sign waving is what it takes to motivate some people to get out and do something then it's worth it.

[acptulsa]

Sure concentrate on likely republican voters, but keep an eye out for swing voters.

Doesn't matter what Matt keeps an eye out for. We'll be rubbing his nose in it soon enough.

[specsaregood]

I'm glad your group was ahead of the curve. :) And great strategy on the cute kids. We really need to reach those old ladies this time!

Something just occurred to me. If we had had our act together, when 200 people showed up to march with signs downtown we should have been prepared to sign (no pun intended) each of them up to be a precinct captain or to do something else useful for the campaign. If sign waving is what it takes to motivate some people to get out and do something then it's worth it.

Yeah, we had some great leaders locally with years of experience in activism (mostly JBS). They would pick neighborhoods, print out copies of yahoo/google maps of the neighborhood and staple them together with relevent registered voter lists for those addresses/maps. Then we would all meet up at a location, we would team up and he would hand out the maps/voter lists to the teams along with campaign materials. We would make sure to hit Republican and super-voters doors and independents when it was early enough to switch parties. It was a well oiled machine, completely independent of the official campaign -- except later when we got the targetted issue slimjims and door knockers.

The part that was disappointing was that we compared the precinct results of areas we canvassed vs. areas we didn't get to and there was absolutely no real statistical difference in the # of votes Dr. Paul received. That is why I came to the conclusion that last time (2007) sign waving very well could have been just as in/effective.

[jmdrake]

Yeah, we had some great leaders locally with years of experience in activism (mostly JBS). They would pick neighborhoods, print out copies of yahoo/google maps of the neighborhood and staple them together with relevent registered voter lists for those addresses/maps. Then we would all meet up at a location, we would team up and he would hand out the maps/voter lists to the teams along with campaign materials. We would make sure to hit Republican and super-voters doors and independents when it was early enough to switch parties. It was a well oiled machine, completely independent of the official campaign -- except later when we got the targetted issue slimjims and door knockers.

The part that was disappointing was that we compared the precinct results of areas we canvassed vs. areas we didn't get to and there was absolutely no real statistical difference in the # of votes Dr. Paul received. That is why I came to the conclusion that last time (2007) sign waving very well could have been just as in/effective.

Ouch! That's depressing. :( Well what it tells me is simply "Asking people nicely to vote for Ron Paul" isn't enough. (Note that we still need to be nice). We have to figure out how to move people over into the Paul column. The problem as I see it is that the majority of people Ron Paul appeals to on economic issues disagree with him on foreign policy and vice versa. Unless we can convince liberals to give up on the welfare state or republicans to give up on the warfare state we're sunk. The good news is that with the debt looming over all people should be willing to give up on at least some of their favorite "W state".

[acptulsa]

But we don't have to convince progressives to give up on the welfare state, just to give up on centralized control of the same. And as for the conservatives, we just need to target older voters. In fact, since much of what this campaign is about returning to ourselves the good things we've turned our backs on, we need older voters of all political stripes. And we need to get busy, so the folks we've converted can pass their wisdom along to others who trust them.

[specsaregood]

Ouch! That's depressing. :( Well what it tells me is simply "Asking people nicely to vote for Ron Paul" isn't enough. (Note that we still need to be nice). We have to figure out how to move people over into the Paul column. The problem as I see it is that the majority of people Ron Paul appeals to on economic issues disagree with him on foreign policy and vice versa. Unless we can convince liberals to give up on the welfare state or republicans to give up on the warfare state we're sunk. The good news is that with the debt looming over all people should be willing to give up on at least some of their favorite "W state".

The most common argument I heard when door knocking was, "I like him, but he can't win." It wasn't foreign policy or truthers or any of the such. It was that media has successfully portrayed him as a wasted vote.

[jmdrake]

The most common argument I heard when door knocking was, "I like him, but he can't win." It wasn't foreign policy or truthers or any of the such. It was that media has successfully portrayed him as a wasted vote.

Ah. Well I ran into "Is he still running?" You see the Tennessean had left Ron Paul off their candidates list despite the fact that we had bought $1,000 worth of advertising with the Tennessean for Ron Paul just that week! And the free paper (The Nashville City Paper) ran a cartoon implying Ron Paul had dropped out. (Yes I agree the media ran against us). I never ran into any "truther" problem, but I did run into a few "foreign policy" complaints from voters as well as some "he's a racist" claims from some black voters. (They probably would have voted for Obama no matter what.) None of them are sticking to that "racist" position this go round, but I'm not sure how many I can get to actually vote for Ron Paul. I did get one to consider it based on the "He can't beat Obama" theory. (Hehe!) Anyway, hopefully we have more ammo on the "he can win" argument with likely republican voters.

[PaulConventionWV]

This is science not voodoo which means hard math must exist. If you don't know what your numbers are then you are wasting your time because you don't know what is possible and what to aim for.

What have you learned about Austrian economics? Like the economy, the voting public is ORGANIC. No scientific tool can give you certainty or fix a "problem." You have to go off of what you know and intuitively work off of that. There is no formula, especially when considering the widely variable demographic in each neighborhood.

Beside, would it really kill you to reach out to some democrats you know? It's not like your time is going to be 100% taken either way. Just do it and stop acting like you can figure everything out with scientific formulas. About 20% of this board is composed of former democrats. Where did they come from?

[Matt Collins]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3305821
[i]Source : AP
COLUMBUS, OHIO (AP) -- Newly released numbers show that about 8 percent of the Democrats who voted in Ohio's March 4 presidential primary previously voted Republican.Getting closer..... But what number is the total amount of Democrats who voted in the Republican primary? That's the important question.

Don't forget though that OH, PA, IN, and FL are major swing states so it may not apply everywhere of course.





Now granted the 173K crossover voters are "presumed Republican", but only because they voted in the Republican primary in 2004. But consider this. There will be no democratic presidential primary this time. That means that millions of potential primary swing voters are up for grabs. Maybe some of these will like Ron Paul. Maybe some will simply see this as a way to keep some other republican they don't like out of the general election. Maybe they (wrongly) think Ron Paul is the easiest candidate to beat. But dismissing crossover voters apriori is not a good campaign strategy. Sure concentrate on likely republican voters, but keep an eye out for swing voters.I would tend to think, with no data to back it up of course, that they would be more inclined to go for a marginal candidate like Romney who is a centrist. The FAR left might come over to the GOP to vote for Ron, but again, I think those numbers a minimal. I haven't seen anything to prove otherwise.

[Matt Collins]

The part that was disappointing was that we compared the precinct results of areas we canvassed vs. areas we didn't get to and there was absolutely no real statistical difference in the # of votes Dr. Paul received. That is why I came to the conclusion that last time (2007) sign waving very well could have been just as in/effective.That's fascinating. The few counties he won in Iowa and took a very high place in Maryland were done with the same method.


The most common argument I heard when door knocking was, "I like him, but he can't win." It wasn't foreign policy or truthers or any of the such. It was that media has successfully portrayed him as a wasted vote.

I think the problem was that the campaign didn't counter the media bias against Ron early enough, or maybe even at all.

[Sweman]

Getting closer..... But what number is the total amount of Democrats who voted in the Republican primary? That's the important question.

Can't you see the similarities between the Ohio democratic primary 2008 and the republican primaries 2012?

Why should democrats have switched to republicans in 2008 when they had nothing to vote for? They have this time.

[MelissaCato]

I thought sign waving was fun last time. I'd venture to say "honk for Ron Paul" signs will get alot more honks this time around. ;o)

I don't care for the video though. Maybe it's just me.

[acptulsa]

Getting closer..... But what number is the total amount of Democrats who voted in the Republican primary? That's the important question.

Usually percentages are considered more useful information, actually. But whatever.

Long and short of it is, Democrats weren't this disgusted with Jimmy Carter. I've never seen this situation before. And neither has your polysci prof. And neither have you.

We will capitalize on it. Don't know to what degree yet. The problem with a so-called 'science' like polysci is the human animal provides an infinite number of variables, especially in rocky times. But we will capitalize on this.

[IDefendThePlatform]

The most common argument I heard when door knocking was, "I like him, but he can't win." It wasn't foreign policy or truthers or any of the such. It was that media has successfully portrayed him as a wasted vote.

This is exactly why we need to win Ames. This would do more than anything else to get Ron Paul mainstream votes.

[Eric21ND]

This is exactly why we need to win Ames. This would do more than anything else to get Ron Paul mainstream votes.
^^
This. Forget all this, let's flood Iowa with volunteers and grassroots projects.

[MelissaCato]

/rant

Did it ever occur to you people that some people are totally against Ron Pauls messege ? Like, some people really don't like/love America as founded. We cannot change that. I've tried with a few people canvassing and socializing. It's like they hate America. I cannot be around someone like that. Phuck their vote. We don't need it. Let me guess, noone here came across anyone like this or feel this way ? Whateva.

These are the same people who on the TV call RP nutz, wacko, no business being on stage, no way he won that poll, terrorist, crazy, teabagger (you people know the hate RAP) .. crap. We don't need no hate in the word Revolution ya know. That's how we are gonna win this. DUH !!! Jezzzzz look at Juan Williams ... who would have though ? LMAO

.... we need their vote? WE DO NOT NEED THOSE VOTES TO WIN !!!!! Did George Washington need their votes ? I doubt it.
/endrant

.. Ron Paul 2012 !!!!

[MelissaCato]

Now, where's that Donald Trump ? LMAO

[acptulsa]

Actually, on further reflection, Obama's not too far from where LBJ was in '68. Of course, old Lyndon kind of deprived us of useful data when he bowed out of the race.

And Melissa, you're right. But how do we tell who is who? People resist the change with all their angry might right up until Obama tosses out the straw that breaks the camel's back, and then they're suddenly ours. I say don't underestimate any liberal's ability to be fickle.

[KurtBoyer25L]

These are the same people who on the TV call RP nutz, wacko, no business being on stage, no way he won that poll, terrorist, crazy, teabagger (you people know the hate RAP) .. crap. We don't need no hate in the word Revolution ya know. That's how we are gonna win this. DUH !!! Jezzzzz look at Juan Williams ... who would have though ? LMAO


Honestly, in my experience this is closer to the typical neocon/midwest cracker attitude toward Ron Paul than the typical liberal's attitude about him. The kicker is just that a LOT more uneducated cracker neocons will be voting in the GOP primaries than liberals will be. I get that, and it's a big hurdle.

[radiofriendly]

Awesome. Thanks, Matt, for posting my video! I should have properly credited the source for that list in the video - I do on the post...but stay tuned to the channel - we have 2 more videos coming in 24 hrs or so. http://www.youtube.com/user/RonPaulTrainer

[jmdrake]

Okaaay. But are you talking about liberal democrats or conservative republicans? I've run into liberals who love and hate Ron Paul and conservatives who love and hate Ron Paul. Really I've met more conservatives who hate him then liberals, but that might be selection bias. And the idea that one group "hates America" and the other group "loves America" is just plain silly. I have had success walking up to a random democrat on the street and talking her into supporting Ron Paul. Unfortunately she hadn't registered in time so I couldn't actually get that vote. Hopefully she'll be ready this time around. (I didn't get her contact number so I can't follow up). In another thread someone was pointing out how members of the "Democratic Underground" website are freaking out because many of their liberal friends are considering Ron Paul because of his antiwar stance. They're desperately playing the "racism" card hoping in vain to stem the tide. If we can mute the racism attacks, we can win these people. I'm not sure how Ron will win over neocon voters now that he's definitely come out against the OBL mission the way it went down.


/rant

Did it ever occur to you people that some people are totally against Ron Pauls messege ? Like, some people really don't like/love America as founded. We cannot change that. I've tried with a few people canvassing and socializing. It's like they hate America. I cannot be around someone like that. Phuck their vote. We don't need it. Let me guess, noone here came across anyone like this or feel this way ? Whateva.

These are the same people who on the TV call RP nutz, wacko, no business being on stage, no way he won that poll, terrorist, crazy, teabagger (you people know the hate RAP) .. crap. We don't need no hate in the word Revolution ya know. That's how we are gonna win this. DUH !!! Jezzzzz look at Juan Williams ... who would have though ? LMAO

.... we need their vote? WE DO NOT NEED THOSE VOTES TO WIN !!!!! Did George Washington need their votes ? I doubt it.
/endrant

.. Ron Paul 2012 !!!!

[Justinjj1]

I'm getting a bit wary of people taking it upon themselves to define what our strategy should or should not be.

Exactly, I'm getting sick of these self-proclaimed experts on campaigning. Here's an idea, how about you campaign how you best see fit, and I will campaign how I best see fit.

[acptulsa]

I, too, am seeing less hostility and more downright sympathy from the 'left' than from the 'right' these days. Too many old-line Republicans will keep wanting to kick some random brown population's asses until we're so broke that China owns the Lincoln Memorial.

I'm all about a 'voter conversion drive' in this closed primary state, and will be trying to rally the Meetup to this cause. If I fail in this, I will apply every effort I can muster on my own.

There is only one antiwar candidate. Only one. And he ain't no Democrat. Four years ago, the handwriting was on the wall, but only those of us skilled in the art of detecting invisible ink could make it out. Now it's up there in bright red paint--THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX CONTROLS BOTH PARTIES, JUST LIKE RON PAUL SAID ON THE VIEW, AND THE ONLY WAY TO STOP THESE DAMNED WARS IS TO FIND THE CANDIDATE THEY HATE THE MOST. Shout it from the mountaintops.


Exactly, I'm getting sick of these self-proclaimed experts on campaigning. Here's an idea, how about you campaign how you best see fit, and I will campaign how I best see fit.

With pleasure. But, you know, if I find something that works I'm going to pop up and say, hey, I tried such and such and it worked. Would that be all right? Or will you be offended if I do?

[jmdrake]

Getting closer..... But what number is the total amount of Democrats who voted in the Republican primary? That's the important question.

Don't forget though that OH, PA, IN, and FL are major swing states so it may not apply everywhere of course.


As someone else has pointed out, democrats had a high motivation to vote in the democratic primary in 2008, but no reason to vote in the democratic primary in 2012. So how many democrats voted in the republican primary in 2008 is irrelevant. How man independents voted is highly relevant, but it's hard to tease that out except in states that require registration. But feel free to Google that and see what you come up with. ;) As for "swing states" that's where we have the best chance to win. Ron Paul is going to have a hard time winning in hardcore red states, especially with his DADT vote and now with his criticizing the OBL raid.

See: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?292384-RP-said-he-wouldnt-have-had-OBL-killed

Really, not only should we reach to to dems and independents, but it might be impossible at this point to win without them. :(



I would tend to think, with no data to back it up of course, that they would be more inclined to go for a marginal candidate like Romney who is a centrist. The FAR left might come over to the GOP to vote for Ron, but again, I think those numbers a minimal. I haven't seen anything to prove otherwise.

Ummm....Romney's still in the lead nationally. So how on earth do you think he's a "marginal" candidate? As for the whole "centrist" bit, it depends on what the key issues are. If you're more concerned about keeping the welfare state the way it is than ending the warefare state then I suppose Romney might be appealing. That said I've talked to a couple of democrats and they were pretty much sold on the idea of voting for Ron Paul based either on the "he can't beat Obama" theory or "it's a great way to tick off the neocons" theory. While that's not a statistically significant sample, it's more data then you have at this point. :p

[jmdrake]

I, too, am seeing less hostility and more downright sympathy from the 'left' than from the 'right' these days. Too many old-line Republicans will keep wanting to kick some random brown population's asses until we're so broke that China owns the Lincoln Memorial.

I'm all about a 'voter conversion drive' in this closed primary state, and will be trying to rally the Meetup to this cause. If I fail in this, I will apply every effort I can muster on my own.

There is only one antiwar candidate. Only one. And he ain't no Democrat. Four years ago, the handwriting was on the wall, but only those of us skilled in the art of detecting invisible ink could make it out. Now it's up there in bright red paint--THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX CONTROLS BOTH PARTIES, JUST LIKE RON PAUL SAID ON THE VIEW, AND THE ONLY WAY TO STOP THESE DAMNED WARS IS TO FIND THE CANDIDATE THEY HATE THE MOST. Shout it from the mountaintops.



With pleasure. But, you know, if I find something that works I'm going to pop up and say, hey, I tried such and such and it worked. Would that be all right? Or will you be offended if I do?

Voter conversion drive? I love it! That's what's been in the back of my head since 2008. We keep looking at this as the typical campaign were we just need to make sure enough voters hear about our guy. The fact is that our guy doesn't line up perfectly with the current polarized electorate. We literally have to win hearts and minds. Conservative voters have to be convinced that continuous preemptive war is not conservative but expansionist. And liberals have to be convinced that government micromanaging everything isn't really liberal but fascist. We keep forgetting this part of the electoral equation.

[PaulConventionWV]

/rant

Did it ever occur to you people that some people are totally against Ron Pauls messege ? Like, some people really don't like/love America as founded. We cannot change that. I've tried with a few people canvassing and socializing. It's like they hate America. I cannot be around someone like that. Phuck their vote. We don't need it. Let me guess, noone here came across anyone like this or feel this way ? Whateva.

These are the same people who on the TV call RP nutz, wacko, no business being on stage, no way he won that poll, terrorist, crazy, teabagger (you people know the hate RAP) .. crap. We don't need no hate in the word Revolution ya know. That's how we are gonna win this. DUH !!! Jezzzzz look at Juan Williams ... who would have though ? LMAO

.... we need their vote? WE DO NOT NEED THOSE VOTES TO WIN !!!!! Did George Washington need their votes ? I doubt it.
/endrant

.. Ron Paul 2012 !!!!

Although I can kind of understand what you are saying, I would rather you use plain English next time.

I am sure most people are aware that many people are adverse to Dr. Paul's message. However, that is usually as a result of misunderstanding and ignorance. We don't focus on these people because we know there are also a lot of people that are simply ignorant. Nobody is saying we have to argue endlessly with these people. We would rather spend time on those who would be receptive. I don't know where you are getting the idea that nobody realizes people don't like Dr. Paul's message. They are wrong, but we know they are out there, so I really don't understand what you are ranting about.

[MelissaCato]

Sorry.

[acptulsa]

Sorry.

Meh. You have a right to blow off steam.

[libertarian4321]

And if you DON'T WANT to do what has been proven to work, then what you DON'T WANT is Ron Paul sitting in the Whitehouse.

I'm going to call BULL SHIT on this.

We all want Ron Paul to win, but we are NOT all going to be hard core zealots willing to do anything to see him win.

There are a lot of people who simply will not go pounding on people's doors, for a variety of reasons. Frankly, I despise people who pound on my door to sell shit, whether it be vacuum salesmen, Jehovah's witnesses, or people pushing political candidates- and I'm LESS likely to support the candidate if some dip shit volunteer starts banging on my door on Sunday morning. For that reason, I won't canvas- I'm not willing to do to others what I would not want them to do to me.

Still, these folks who won't bang on door might be willing to sign wave, donate money, phone bank, post signs/bumper stickers, vote, become delegates, or whatever.

If you turn away volunteers who aren't willing to do only what YOU think is important, you aren't doing Ron Paul any favors.

So if you want to pound on doors, go for it, and get as many willing volunteers as you can get to help you.

But for those who are not willing to bang on doors, there are plenty of things they can do.

Having people sign wave is a Hell of a lot better than turning away supporters/volunteers by telling them they are only welcome if they are willing to do what some self-appointed campaign guru tells them to do...

[libertarian4321]

agreed sign waving is a waste of time, and I have been saying that converting liberals is a waste of time too for a while now.

In 2008, I know of several liberal/Dem types who not only became Ron Paul supporters, but hard core volunteers. They didn't hear about Ron Paul from directed mailers aimed at Republican blue-hairs or phone banks directed at same (and this was way before anyone was canvasing). They saw Ron Paul signs all over the city, which intrigued them enough to tune into the early debates, where Ron's anti-war/non-intervention stance turned them into supporters.

These folks not only spent hundreds of hours volunteering, they switched parties and became Republican delegates (at least one of whom even went to the national GOP convention as a delegate).

Ron Paul has certain stances that DO resonate with "liberals" (ending the wars, ending the insane drug war, etc)- and if those issues are high on that "liberal's" personal agenda, you may not only get a Ron Paul supporter, but a hard core volunteer.

Even easier to bring over than liberals/Dems are INDEPENDENTS- you aren't going to reach them if you contact only blue hairs from the GOP mailing list, but a lot of them will be swayed to support Dr. Paul.

[libertarian4321]

It's called experience. How many elections have you had a hand in winning? Me, I've had a hand in winning 5 Republican elections since 2008.



I should warn you to be careful with trying to discredit the ideas of others based on your vast political experience, because sooner or later, some smart ass will probably point out that while you've been involved with 5 wins, but you've been involved in a Hell of a lot more than 5 losses.

I'm not going to be that smart ass, but I'm just telling you, someone might point it out...

[libertarian4321]

I guess you could use a savings account for retirement instead of investing... but why would you want to?

I doubt you'd find many (any?) millionaires who don't have BOTH a savings accounts and investment accounts. Both have their place.

Same here- canvasing and sign waving can both help. Why not use both (especially when some people simply WILL NOT bang on doors).

[libertarian4321]

And sign waving gives you "media"? We had 200 people marching through downtown Nashville carrying signs New Years Eve 2007. We didn't get a single bit of news coverage.

Hmm, I was at a sign wave/march in Austin, Tx with about the same number of people in November 2007, not only did we get on the local news shows, reporters from at least two newspapers (yeah, I know, almost no one under 40 reads them, but it's a great way to reach Republican blue hairs, lol) showed up, one of whom interviewed me while we marched.

Maybe you just needed to publicize the thing better? Someone (not me) did a great job notifying the media of our event, and it worked. Also, New Year's Eve probably isn't the best time- too many other things going on, and politics aren't really what people are thinking about.

[libertarian4321]

I'm not even sure why this thread is controversial. If folks want to sign wave, go sign wave. But if that's the focus this time, like it was for many of us last time, then expect the same results. What frustrated me is that locally we could get 200 people to show up and march but couldn't get that many to sign up to be precinct captains. We didn't even fill all of the precinct captain slots. I'm fairly certain ours was not the only area with that problem.

That's kind of why you need to do both. A lot of people just are not willing to bang on doors. So you have to have other things for them to do- including, but not limited to, sign waving.

I think the problem is that some here (not you) are using a somewhat dictatorial tone (which, obviously, doesn't work real well on the people likely to support Ron Paul) and telling people not to sign wave- that's what gets some of us riled up.

[libertarian4321]

Exactly, I'm getting sick of these self-proclaimed experts on campaigning. Here's an idea, how about you campaign how you best see fit, and I will campaign how I best see fit.

Given Ron Paul's pro-freedom, anti-authoritarian message, this seems about right.

[nate895]

Exactly, I'm getting sick of these self-proclaimed experts on campaigning. Here's an idea, how about you campaign how you best see fit, and I will campaign how I best see fit.

How about the Ron Paul campaign does the campaigning? That's what we're giving them money for, I thought.

None of that is to say we shouldn't doorbell, talk to our neighbors, etc.

[libertarian4321]

Yup, we need to let the professional campaign do it's thing, and we need to do ours.

But we don't need self-professed "experts" here trying to force volunteers to do only what the "experts" think is best.

Volunteer. If you want to bang on people's doors, do it. If you want to sign wave, do it.

[acptulsa]

But we don't need self-professed "experts" here trying to force volunteers to do only what the "experts" think is best.

So this thread is getting bumped daily because...?

[LibertyEagle]

Yup, we need to let the professional campaign do it's thing, and we need to do ours.

But we don't need self-professed "experts" here trying to force volunteers to do only what the "experts" think is best.

Volunteer. If you want to bang on people's doors, do it. If you want to sign wave, do it.

They are speaking the FACTS. The methods they described have been used for generations to win elections. If anyone believes that we can ignore them and still prevail, well, those thoughts would be complete stupidity.

There is no reason why people cannot do both, if they choose to do so. But, please don't sit there and tell people that sign-waving or attending rallies is anywhere on the same map in getting Dr. Paul elected, as getting involved in the Republican party, canvassing and getting out the vote. Because they are not. That is not to say that there is no usefulness in the other; just that if we want to win, a great number of us are going to have to focus on the fundamentals.

Methods are referred to as tried and true for a reason.

[Eric21ND]

Simple solution, do tradition door-to-door during the day, and then to break up the monotony go sign wave over an overpass at 5:00-6:00pm when people are getting off work and will see it.

[acptulsa]

Want data on the liberal front, Matt? Get out your abacus and sort through the comments;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robin-koerner/ron-paul-and-the-love-rev_b_861399.html?ref=fb&src=sp

[acptulsa]

Quantify this.

HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TRex86

Run, Ron run. You torment the statist-au*tocratic Republican*s with too much truth. Your absolute faith in "free markets" may be borderline religious fervor, but on most issues you land with the left: foreign policy, drug policy, civil rights. We can negotiate our difference*s while the rest of the Republican*s want to turn this country into a corporatis*t oligarchy. So run, baby, run.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Exactly, I'm getting sick of these self-proclaimed experts on campaigning. Here's an idea, how about you campaign how you best see fit, and I will campaign how I best see fit.

An unteachable person - is not alive, just thinks he is.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

They are speaking the FACTS. The methods they described have been used for generations to win elections. If anyone believes that we can ignore them and still prevail, well, those thoughts would be complete stupidity.

There is no reason why people cannot do both, if they choose to do so. But, please don't sit there and tell people that sign-waving or attending rallies is anywhere on the same map in getting Dr. Paul elected, as getting involved in the Republican party, canvassing and getting out the vote. Because they are not. That is not to say that there is no usefulness in the other; just that if we want to win, a great number of us are going to have to focus on the fundamentals.

Methods are referred to as tried and true for a reason.

+!

[RonPaulVolunteer]

It really boils down to, how f****** serious are you about restoring liberty? Because it's not going to come without sacrifice. Plenty of sunshine patriots here.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

George Washington: OK men, the time has come, tomorrow morning at the fourth hour before darkness has broken we trudge through the fresh snow and face our enemy. This is it. Clean your muskets for in the morrow we will have our country, free and independent.
Sunshine Patriot: Geee... ya know what, I mean that sounds like a swell idea and all, but we're going to wait for the summer and then just raise our flags. We're quite sure that when the red coats see how many pretty flags we have and how high we're holding them, they'll admit defeat.

[libertarian4321]

They are speaking the FACTS. The methods they described have been used for generations to win elections.



I clearly stated that all methods can help. I never said sign waving was better than canvassing. I did say that FOR VOLUNTEERS WHO REFUSE TO GO DOOR TO DOOR (and there will be plenty of them), sign waving is better than DOING NOTHING. Hence, sign waving et al does have a place, because many volunteers are simply not willing to bang on door. i was refuting those self proclaimed experts who said sign waving had no place in the campaign.


There is no reason why people cannot do both, if they choose to do so. But, please don't sit there and tell people that sign-waving or attending rallies is anywhere on the same map in getting Dr. Paul elected, as getting involved in the Republican party, canvassing and getting out the vote.

READ what I wrote. I never said that people could not do both (if they chose to do so). Nor did I say sign waving was "better." I said sign waving was BETTER THAN NOTHING for those volunteers who are NOT WILLING TO BANG ON DOORS.




That is not to say that there is no usefulness in the other; just that if we want to win, a great number of us are going to have to focus on the fundamentals.

I clearly stated, a number of times, that is you want to bang on doors, GO FOR IT. Have at it. Knock yourself out.

However, many people simply will not do this. For those who will not bang on doors, sign waving is better than saying "screw it, all they want is door bangers, I'll stay home and watch the game."

[IDefendThePlatform]

I think sign waving greatly helped us get attention in 2008, but I'm not convinced that it will be really a net positive in 2012, even if you think the people who do it are completely unwilling to do any other campaign activity.

Certain activities can seem polarizing or "kooky". Now that Ron Paul has name recognition and media attention, the next hurdle is becoming accepted as more mainstream. Sign waving makes our supporters seem different than the other candidates, which is not helpful in 2012, I think. Everytime I hear a TV talking head say Ron Paul has a "small band of passionate supporters" I cringe because it makes it easy for people to write us off.



I do think reaching out to liberals and independents could be helpful since there is no democratic primary this cycle.

[libertarian4321]

George Washington: OK men, the time has come, tomorrow morning at the fourth hour before darkness has broken we trudge through the fresh snow and face our enemy. This is it. Clean your muskets for in the morrow we will have our country, free and independent.
Sunshine Patriot: Geee... ya know what, I mean that sounds like a swell idea and all, but we're going to wait for the summer and then just raise our flags. We're quite sure that when the red coats see how many pretty flags we have and how high we're holding them, they'll admit defeat.

Since I'm a military history buff, I'll explain why you fail to make the point.

Washington had his Continental Army, the regulars who well trained and obligated to fight (call them the canvassers). However, he did not have nearly enough of those regulars to hope to stand against the British. He supplemented his relatively small professional army with huge numbers of volunteer militia (think of them as "sign wavers"). He needed BOTH to have any hope of winning against the British.

Had Washington foolishly scorned the unprofessional militia, deciding they weren't worthy of his time, and turned them away and relied only on the Continentals, there is a good chance we'd all be singing "God Save the Queen" to this day.

Washington was smart enough to accept help from wherever it came, whether the professional Continentals or the militia, who sometimes showed up for a battle in the morning, and returned to their farm in time for dinner.

I think we need to do the same.

If we scorn the new and/or less hard core volunteers, and rely only on the small core of extremely dedicated zealots, we shoot ourselves in the foot, because just as there weren't enough professional Continentals to stand alone against the British, there aren't enough hard core volunteers to win.

We should use every weapon at out disposal.

So if you are willing to canvas, do so. If not, sign wave or phone bank or donate or whatever you are willing and able to do.

[acptulsa]

So is it more likely that our conventional tactics will distract them from our unconventional attacks, or that our unconventional tactics will distract them from our conventional attacks?

Does it matter? Either way, to get the benefit we need both sets of tactics. Both.

Glad there really are more than fourteen of us, and we don't all spend our time in mom's basement.

[libertarian4321]

Either way, to get the benefit we need both sets of tactics. Both.


Exactly.

[MelissaCato]

Everyone knows we need both. It's just that now for some reason, one is pointing the finger at the other as if to discredit the word "grassroot". Kinda like Nancy did.

Just saying.

[ssantoro]

We must reach everyone. Sometimes we don't realize how many people we can influence in our daily lives. That is why it is important to be walking advertisements for the Revolution. Wear RP T-shirts, Buttons and put a RP bumpersticker on your car. The people you meet at the convenience store where you get your coffee in the morning may ask you about why you support RP and give you chance to win them over. If everyone who voted for RP in the 2008 primary will influence 10 people to do the same this time RP wins the primary!!!!

[LibertyEagle]

Bump