I Don't Get It. RE; Cain

[pcosmar]

Can someone explain the fascination with this guy? I just don't get it.

Why is he being pushed. How can anyone listen to him and still take him seriously.
What did he say that that I somehow missed? I watched the "Debate" (if you can really call it that)
Cain came off as inarticulate, Had no view on anything except "Fair Tax".
Has no plan nor direction. No "message".
Why is he being pushed? why is Fox pushing him? Phoney Frank is no doubt getting paid well for his manipulation. Why?

I have one idea why. (but it is so disgusting, I don't even like to think it.)
Help me find some other reason for this shit.
:(

[JK/SEA]

He has a good voice. I wonder if he can sing?

[smartguy911]

Black vs Black. This guys has a deep voice, sounds cool, confident.

Put him against another guy who is cool, confident and knows how to talk.

Democrats have a cool black guy and Cain is cool black guy representing the Republican party

Perfect Match

[kahless]

No one is supporting Cain. His appeal is completely fabricated by the Republican establishment and Foxnews.

The point is to make the sheeple believe that they have a candidate that is outside of the establishment which is clearly an effort to derail Paul and Johnson from gaining further traction. The narrative is to have only one non-establishment candidate.

[braane]

The dude seemed like a typical mouthpiece. I don't get it either.

[smartguy911]

Dude Black is cool

[Conza88]

Can someone explain the fascination with this guy? I just don't get it.

Why is he being pushed. How can anyone listen to him and still take him seriously.
What did he say that that I somehow missed? I watched the "Debate" (if you can really call it that)
Cain came off as inarticulate, Had no view on anything except "Fair Tax".
Has no plan nor direction.
Why is he being pushed? why is Fox pushing him? Phoney Frank is no doubt getting paid well for his manipulation. Why?

I have one idea why. (but it is so disgusting, I don't even like to think it.)
Help me find some other reason for this shit.
:(

He's a filler till the "real" candidates enter the race. They need someone to be a distraction whilst Ron Paul is around.

The 'take' is that he is 'fresh' and a 'surprise', yet he's the typical status quo all the way.

[belian78]

No one is supporting Cain. He appeal is completely fabricated by the Republican establishment and Foxnews.

The point is to make the sheeple believe that they have a candidate that is outside of the establishment which is clearly an effort to derail Paul and Johnson for gaining further traction.

Mostly this^^

However, like someone else said, Cain is a placeholder. He's meant to be the focus for now as to take attention away from Ron until the 'frontrunners' officially announce. Once that happens it will be 'Herman who?'.

[dbill27]

I've seen a lot of cain support on the internet and in some of the meetup groups im in. He's not a politician, people like that. He's black, so the race card against obama is neutralized, people like that. Herman Cain will be on the winning ticket maybe as a vp though, just my prediction, not what I want.

[AuH20]

He communicates well and sounds like someone who has a plan. Whether that is the truth, remains to be seen. Cain's sudden popularity is exactly the main reason why Rand could have stolen the primary. Ron's problem is that he gets caught up in all these abstract philosophy debates that don't work well in a 1 minute response session.

[Kords21]

I found his answers to be either bumbling or cliched. His answer on what he would do in Afghanistan reminded me of McCain's answer to Ron's question about the President's working group. The fact that he's a former fed chairman of the KC fed bank is an instant disqualifer for me, we know where his loyalties lie and it's not with America.

[moostraks]

He appeal is completely fabricated by the Republican establishment and Foxnews.

The point is to make the sheeple believe that they have a candidate that is outside of the establishment which is clearly an effort to derail Paul and Johnson for gaining further traction.

Absolutely a figment of FOX news manufacturing. As for his voice, I used to live in Atlanta (suburbs) and he was on the radio sporadically as a fill in and I always wanted to shove hot pokers in my ears when I caught him speaking. He is nasally and whiny and complains like a baby.

[pcosmar]

Black vs Black. This guys has a deep voice, sounds cool, confident.

Put him against another guy who is cool, confident and knows how to talk.

Democrats have a cool black guy and Cain is cool black guy representing the Republican party

Perfect Match

This is the disgusting thought I am trying to not even give credibility to.
It is the shallow end of the political pool.

Are they really swimming there?

[moostraks]

This is the disgusting thought I am trying to not even give credibility to.
It is the shallow end of the political pool.

Are they really swimming there?

The public is swimming there. I doubt Cain will be more than a VP candidate. It is too early for them to float the establishments choice.

[UtahApocalypse]

When will people here be objective???

You all are fucking retarded insane. Cain won the debate to those that matter --- THE FUCKING VOTING PUBLIC ---anyone that is climing FOX news or the Republican establishment is pushing him can suck a dick.

FOX News and the GOP are not the end all by all hypnotists on main street. That is where im hearing of Cain support this morning. Not just in a Frank Luntz Study group.... On my LOCAL radio, at the Coffee shop, through Facebook through friends.

If you really believe this is one big game then you believe that NOBODY which would include yourself has a opinion that is not manufactured by the media, or GOP.

Fuck You -- Cain won..... Now we have to win back those people by learning what he did that suddenly surged his campaign.

[AuH20]

When will people here be objective???

You all are fucking retarded insane. Cain won the debate to those that matter --- THE FUCKING VOTING PUBLIC ---anyone that is climing FOX news or the Republican establishment is pushing him can suck a dick.

FOX News and the GOP are not the end all by all hypnotists on main street. That is where im hearing of Cain support this morning. Not just in a Frank Luntz Study group.... On my LOCAL radio, at the Coffee shop, through Facebook through friends.

If you really believe this is one big game then you believe that NOBODY which would include yourself has a opinion that is not manufactured by the media, or GOP.

Fuck You -- Cain won..... Now we have to win back those people by learning what he did that suddenly surged his campaign.

Exactly. The major problem is the ideological bubble we're all comfortablly nestled in. We have exhaustively read Ron's books. We FULLY understand his positions. Not everyone knows his positions, which is partially attributable to the bias at FOX as well as Ron's tendency to veer off course.

[sailingaway]

Don't worry about it, just be glad that this go round HE's the one with the obnoxious supporters....

[LiveFree79]

Oh come on it's easy to see why people like Cain. Hell if I didn't know any better I'd love the guy too. He's articulate, speaks clearly and makes his points well. Just comes off as a very intelligent person and he's not a politician. Pawlenty, Santorum and the governor from NM......my god those guys are walking political cliches.

Ron Paul is definitely the last chance this country or liberty really has. But I was not impressed with him in this debate. He's just not a good speaker. He made some people laugh but he really needs to articulate better and make better points. Instead of eloquently saying what he said about heroin he throws his arms up and gets all hysterical. LOL. I don't know.........he should have said made better points about the whole legalization of drugs. Saying how the war on drugs is a joke and a waste of money would have been a good start. One of the debaters said we should focus on drugs as a health issue and not a crime issue. That really resonates with people.

Paul is great and he is the ONLY one talking about ending the Fed which is what has to happen if this country is going to ever change. But he needs to speak better. Like another poster in this thread said his points are too abstract and hard for people to understand, especially if they don't know history.. Paul has got to understand most American voters are idiots. He needs to cater to this.

[sailingaway]

Oh come on it's easy to see why people like Cain. Hell if I didn't know any better I'd love the guy too. He's articulate, speaks clearly and makes his points well. Just comes off as a very intelligent person and he's not a politician. Pawlenty, Santorum and the governor from NM......my god those guys are walking political cliches.

Ron Paul is definitely the last chance this country or liberty really has. But I was not impressed with him in this debate. He's just not a good speaker. He made some people laugh but he really needs to articulate better and make better points. Instead of eloquently saying what he said about heroin he throws his arms up and gets all hysterical. LOL. I don't know.........he should have said made better points about the whole legalization of drugs. Saying how the war on drugs is a joke and a waste of money would have been a good start. One of the debaters said we should focus on drugs as a health issue and not a crime issue. That really resonates with people.

Paul is great and he is the ONLY one talking about ending the Fed which is what has to happen if this country is going to ever change. But he needs to speak better. Like another poster in this thread said his points are too abstract and hard for people to understand, especially if they don't know history.. Paul has got to understand most American voters are idiots. He needs to cater to this.

I don't think I am the only voter absolutely sick of politicians catering to idiots.

[outspoken]

I think that he appeals to some because he is a strong, emotional personality of which few philosophically sound people are. Most people who understand philosophy and 'Know Thy Self' realize that emotionals are man's greatest enemy as they lead us to impulsive and reckless decisions. It is why true philosopher kings are such a rare entity on this planet and they usually end up crucified or with a bullet in them.

While many professed conservatives might not be consciously aware of it, I think Cain offers a unique opportunity to say with your vote "See I'm not a racist, I just abhore Obama's viewpoint." That is a dangerous game because we should be voting on character rather than color of skin. Human nature throughout history hasn't changed all that much..... we are still ruled by fear except for a few brave souls like Ron Paul who challange the status quo. And thus the mainstream likes to vilify and demagogue them for being an outlier for peace and truth.

[pcosmar]

He's articulate, speaks clearly and makes his points well. Just comes off as a very intelligent person and he's not a politician.

This is exactly what I don't understand.
That is the exact opposite of my observation. To the letter.

What points did he articulate well?
What points did he make at all?
What idea or revelation highlighted his intellect?

[skyorbit]

Didn't Cain support the TARP Bailouts, and opposed the Audit the Fed bill? I thought TARP was what set the Tea Party off. I don't understand.

[puppetmaster]

Cain does not pronunciate well at all. That bothers me, but the big red flag to me is hiding the fact that he was a FED CHAIRMAN and the media is hiding it as well

[UtahApocalypse]

This is exactly what I don't understand.
That is the exact opposite of my observation. To the letter.

What points did he articulate well?
What points did he make at all?
What idea or revelation highlighted his intellect?

Once again your flaw in thinking shines through. You are "enlightened" and have an understanding of the issues. The American Public generally do not. until you can be objective that and look at things in another point of view you will never get it.

[S.Shorland]

If people don't have more philosophy than a goldfish,simply saying 'the right thing' seems to work very well.To people who don't know Ron as we do,his stumbling over words could be seen as a liar trying to get his story straight! It just takes a little time to get used to him and to think about Libertarianism before you 'get' it.Cain avoided three questions saying he didn't have enough information! He just said nothing much at all but said it well and the Goldfish lapped it up.

[reduen]

When will people here be objective???

You all are fucking retarded insane. Cain won the debate to those that matter --- THE FUCKING VOTING PUBLIC ---anyone that is climing FOX news or the Republican establishment is pushing him can suck a dick.

FOX News and the GOP are not the end all by all hypnotists on main street. That is where im hearing of Cain support this morning. Not just in a Frank Luntz Study group.... On my LOCAL radio, at the Coffee shop, through Facebook through friends.

If you really believe this is one big game then you believe that NOBODY which would include yourself has a opinion that is not manufactured by the media, or GOP.

Fuck You -- Cain won..... Now we have to win back those people by learning what he did that suddenly surged his campaign.

This is a bit harsh isn't it? I personally am not retarded or insane and neither are the majority of folks in here... (You might just be the exception...)

You say that Cain won the debate but that is not the consensus that I am hearing. I had a room full of people last night and not all were hard core Paul supporters like me. None of them thought that Cain made any sense when he talked. Yes he sounded good but there was no substance to his message. Those of you who feel that Cain won this debate are simply taking the bait in my opinion.

Even my most neocon leaning friends say that Dr. Paul did a great job last night so I really do not see any validity in what you have posted here!

[reduen]

Cain does not pronunciate well at all. That bothers me, but the big red flag to me is hiding the fact that he was a FED CHAIRMAN and the media is hiding it as well

+1

[pcosmar]

Once again your flaw in thinking shines through. You are "enlightened" and have an understanding of the issues. The American Public generally do not. until you can be objective that and look at things in another point of view you will never get it.

Perhaps if I bang my head firmly against a concrete wall for a few minutes I will be dazed enough to understand.

[Original_Intent]

I love Ron Paul. And I thought he did jsut fine on this debate. But my gut tells me that what we need is someone firmly committed to Ron's ideas that can make a point in 10 mono-sylabbic words or less. If the public took saving this country seriously at all, Ron Paul woiuld be a shoo-in. But the fact is, most people are not and never will be concerned about saving the country, they jsut want someone that will make their personal pain go away, they will never embrace someone who champions making painful but necessary choices when compared to someone that will basically repeat "America's best days are ahead of us" convincingly.

Ron Paul's best chance is a complete collapse of the economy, austerity that comes of necessity and not choice, and the realization by 51% that there is no quick fix and they are going to actually have to get off their ass and understand the underlying problems in order to know who actually has solutions to those problems.

I think Ron himself realizes this. If the Fed and their accomplices are able to sell the "recovery" and get gas prices down in the $3.00 or lower range, we are going to get more of the same old crap in 2012. We may get some marginal wins by the Tea Party in the House and Senate, and we might even get a faux Ron Paul lite in the White House. But only continued pain in the economy is going to get enough of the public engaged enough to fundamentally change anything.

[AuH20]

I love Ron Paul. And I thought he did jsut fine on this debate. But my gut tells me that what we need is someone firmly committed to Ron's ideas that can make a point in 10 mono-sylabbic words or less. If the public took saving this country seriously at all, Ron Paul woiuld be a shoo-in. But the fact is, most people are not and never will be concerned about saving the country, they jsut want someone that will make their personal pain go away, they will never embrace someone who champions making painful but necessary choices when compared to someone that will basically repeat "America's best days are ahead of us" convincingly.

Ron Paul's best chance is a complete collapse of the economy, austerity that comes of necessity and not choice, and the realization by 51% that there is no quick fix and they are going to actually have to get off their ass and understand the underlying problems in order to know who actually has solutions to those problems.

I think Ron himself realizes this. If the Fed and their accomplices are able to sell the "recovery" and get gas prices down in the $3.00 or lower range, we are going to get more of the same old crap in 2012. We may get some marginal wins by the Tea Party in the House and Senate, and we might even get a faux Ron Paul lite in the White House. But only continued pain in the economy is going to get enough of the public engaged enough to fundamentally change anything.

Ron's underlying message is bulletproof but given the blatant media hostility and soundbyte oriented debate format, we need a new messenger. You're absolutely correct.

[reduen]

Don't worry about it, just be glad that this go round HE's the one with the obnoxious supporters....

I would have agreed with you until I saw UtahApocalypse's post above.... Talk about obnoxious....!

[robskicks]

WE SAW: "I DONT KNOW WTF I'M TALKING ABOUT, OR WTF WE SHOULD DO ABOUT ANYTHING"

THE MASSES SAW: "Joke. Catchy phrase. Deep voice. I know business stuffs."

[kahless]

The voting public were fed propaganda by FNC and Frank Luntz's focus group that Cain won. People want to be on the winning team and the winning team is what the news media tells them is the winning team. So yes I stand by my comment it was "fabricated" and thus no one should be suprised that some people are buying into it. That is why people are outraged.

What suprises me though it is that we have people here that not only do not recognize this after what FNC did during the 2008 campaign and are irrational in their response to a continuing problem with FNC.

[reduen]

The voting public were fed propaganda by FNC and Frank Luntz's focus group that Cain won. People want to be on the winning team and the winning team is what the news media tells them is the winning team. So yes I stand by my comment it was "fabricated" and thus no one should be suprised that some people are buying into it. That is why people are outraged.

What suprises me though it is that we have people here that not only do not recognize this after what FNC did during the 2008 campaign and are irrational in their response to a continuing problem with FNC.

+1776..

[AuH20]

The voting public were fed propaganda by FNC and Frank Luntz's focus group that Cain won. People want to be on the winning team and the winning team is what the news media tells them is the winning team. So yes I stand by my comment it was "fabricated" and thus no one should be suprised that some people are buying into it. That is why people are outraged.

What suprises me though it is that we have people here that not only do not recognize this after what FNC did during the 2008 campaign and are irrational in their response to a continuing problem with FNC.

It goes beyond that. If you took random people with very little political knowledge, and showed them the debate tape, they would have been impressed with Cain because he SOUNDED like a man of authority who could be a problem solver. The point is irrevelant whether Cain possesses those characteristics. In these debates, perception is as important as substance.

[Badger Paul]

I wouldn't worry about Cain because he just splits up the vote on the right the more in stature he's built up. It helps RP when you've got a field which could potentially include Santorum, Bachmann, Gingrich, Palin, Huckabee, Roemer along with Cain. It's simple arithmetic. Tiny slivers of votes of those on the Right while RP walks away with all the independents, all the libertarians and moderate Republicans.

[pcosmar]

I wouldn't worry about Cain because he just splits up the vote on the right the more in stature he's built up. It helps RP when you've got a field which could potentially include Santorum, Bachmann, Gingrich, Palin, Huckabee, Roemer along with Cain. It's simple arithmetic. Tiny slivers of votes of those on the Right while RP walks away with all the independents, all the libertarians and moderate Republicans.

I am not so concerned with him winning. I doubt it is even likely.
I am concerned with him being pushed in the first place. By both Fox and the GOP
It just boggles the mind.

[moostraks]

When will people here be objective???

You all are fucking retarded insane. Cain won the debate to those that matter --- THE FUCKING VOTING PUBLIC ---anyone that is climing FOX news or the Republican establishment is pushing him can suck a dick...

If you really believe this is one big game then you believe that NOBODY which would include yourself has a opinion that is not manufactured by the media, or GOP.

Fuck You -- Cain won..... Now we have to win back those people by learning what he did that suddenly surged his campaign.

Nice...I appreciate being called retarded insane because I differ in opinion from you and my mileage varies. I have experienced being personally manipulated because I trusted media and did not realize they were biased. I trusted them because I was overworked and did not have time to do due diligence when it came to investigating biases and ownership until I got older. The fact that you are unaware that the GOP establishment pushes specific candidates because there is an underlying agenda does not square what many of us experienced last go 'round and I have yet to see any change to warrant changing my opinion on this matter.

To win like Cain we need some vacuous candidate backed by big money who is willing to do corporate bidding with no morals or scruples. Then they will answer questions without really answering them, say a joke or two while flashing a big smile, and have some down home appeal to the people based upon the image the media has been trying to float as the "face" of America.

[Johnnymac]

even my brother who isnt as into politics as i am spotted out that he didn't answer the question with an actual solution

[Brian4Liberty]

Can't imagine what part of his background that the establishment would like... ;)


Herman Cain (born December 13, 1945) is an American newspaper columnist, businessman, political activist, and radio talk-show host from Georgia. He is best known as the former chairman and CEO of Godfather's Pizza. He is a former deputy chairman (1992–94) and chairman (1995–96) of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City. Cain's newspaper column is distributed by North Star Writers Group. He currently lives in the Atlanta suburbs.

[Bossobass]

80% of voters work for the government, Wall Street and Military Industrial Complex, directly or indirectly. The other 20% are unemployed.

Ron scares the living shit out of the majority of those 80% because they positively know what he's talking about and agree with him, but will not give up their livelihood for uncertainty... to the bitter end.

As far as Cain/Fox/what people think:

TV is shit.

BTW, I was there last night. Ron is awesome. None of those other guys raised a million dollars while being absolutely mobbed until security literally had to drag them away from supporters... not in their wildest fucking dreams... ever.

Get with the program and quit sweating nobodies.

Bosso

[liberalnurse]

The first “serious” GOP contender for the presidency, Herman Cain, is at the Koch meeting. Cain, a talk show host and former CEO of Godfather’s Pizza, has been a frequent guest at events sponsored by Koch front groups like Americans for Prosperity.


http://thinkprogress.org/2011/01/30/langone-cain-koch/

[kill the banks]

he's another ringer for the fed and the illites ... kill the banks

[reduen]

Nice...I appreciate being called retarded insane because I differ in opinion from you and my mileage varies. I have experienced being personally manipulated because I trusted media and did not realize they were biased. I trusted them because I was overworked and did not have time to do due diligence when it came to investigating biases and ownership until I got older. The fact that you are unaware that the GOP establishment pushes specific candidates because there is an underlying agenda does not square what many of us experienced last go 'round and I have yet to see any change to warrant changing my opinion on this matter.

To win like Cain we need some vacuous candidate backed by big money who is willing to do corporate bidding with no morals or scruples. Then they will answer questions without really answering them, say a joke or two while flashing a big smile, and have some down home appeal to the people based upon the image the media has been trying to float as the "face" of America.

I agree.... Utah just about got negative rep from me on this one and I just about refuse to do negatives.

[reduen]

80% of voters work for the government, Wall Street and Military Industrial Complex, directly or indirectly. The other 20% are unemployed.

Ron scares the living shit out of the majority of those 80% because they positively know what he's talking about and agree with him, but will not give up their livelihood for uncertainty... to the bitter end.

As far as Cain/Fox/what people think:

TV is shit.

BTW, I was there last night. Ron is awesome. None of those other guys raised a million dollars while being absolutely mobbed until security literally had to drag them away from supporters... not in their wildest fucking dreams... ever.

Get with the program and quit sweating nobodies.

Bosso

Glad to see you still around Bosso. Cheers...

[JohnGalt1225]

He communicates well and sounds like someone who has a plan. Whether that is the truth, remains to be seen. Cain's sudden popularity is exactly the main reason why Rand could have stolen the primary. Ron's problem is that he gets caught up in all these abstract philosophy debates that don't work well in a 1 minute response session.
He may sound like he has a plan, promise he has a plan, but whatever it is I didn't hear about it last night.

[JohnGalt1225]

Cain does not pronunciate well at all. That bothers me, but the big red flag to me is hiding the fact that he was a FED CHAIRMAN and the media is hiding it as well
I think it's an act. I think it's like when Obama drops g's off the end of words ("we're goin' to start gettin' serious") to make him seem folksy and like a "common man."

[JohnGalt1225]

Can't imagine what part of his background that the establishment would like... ;)
Yeah, they do love their toppings under the cheese.

[olehounddog]

He has a good voice.
Just what I told my wife.

[YumYum]

He may sound like he has a plan, promise he has a plan, but whatever it is I didn't hear about it last night.

He plans to get a plan.

[TIMB0B]

He plans to get a plan.

After he gets all the facts and studies them.

[angelatc]

I don't think I am the only voter absolutely sick of politicians catering to idiots.

But apparently most voters *are* idiots who respond favorably to being catered to.

[HOLLYWOOD]

The liberal leftist constant infatuation of pushing the race card... especially CNN/MSNBC

Then you now have FOX who wants to ensure they are not labeled as the 'Old White Man' establishment machine.

Clearly, Cain did not win the debate, and rambled-on a lot, this is all MSM for yah.

Imagine if RP had like a Fred Thompson voice, "A Russian doesn't take a dump without a plan... This will get out of control..."


Can someone explain the fascination with this guy? I just don't get it.

Why is he being pushed. How can anyone listen to him and still take him seriously.
What did he say that that I somehow missed? I watched the "Debate" (if you can really call it that)
Cain came off as inarticulate, Had no view on anything except "Fair Tax".
Has no plan nor direction. No "message".
Why is he being pushed? why is Fox pushing him? Phoney Frank is no doubt getting paid well for his manipulation. Why?

I have one idea why. (but it is so disgusting, I don't even like to think it.)
Help me find some other reason for this shit.
:(

[tmg19103]

On top of many of the good points mentioned, FOX and the GOP want Cain to do well - but not get the nomination.

This deflects from the R's being racist arguments the D's always make.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

He plans to get a plan.


After he gets all the facts and studies them.

And only then will he let the expert make the decision.

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

Herman Cain "winning" last night's debate shows exactly what has happened to corporate America, and what has happened to the ability of the common person to listen and interpret what's being said. Cain sounded EXACTLY like a "department head" defining all the problems and breaking them down into bullet points. He then spoke in generalizations on how these problems should get fixed without offering any real solutions, other than talking boldly without actually saying anything of substance. This is EVERY meeting that will happen today in corporate America...and the lower managers eat it up. Where this leads to, nobody knows, but the department head is lauded for his or her "bold vision" and "clarity" on what this organization needs. Meanwhile, everyone in the department is working 60 hours a week, producing nothing of value to anyone.

[Anti Federalist]

This is the disgusting thought I am trying to not even give credibility to.
It is the shallow end of the political pool.

Are they really swimming there?

Short answer...Yes, beyond a shadow of doubt.

[Xchange]

Didn't Cain support the TARP Bailouts, and opposed the Audit the Fed bill? I thought TARP was what set the Tea Party off. I don't understand.



Herman Cain is a former Chairman/Deputy Chairman @ the KC Federal Reserve.
He is a FED apologist and sees no reason for the FED to be audited.



He backed the Wall Street bailout, or according to Cain, the “recovery plan,” as he called it on his radio show. Cain wrote that nationalizing banks “is not a bad thing.” He even went as far as criticizing opponents of the bailout, calling them “free market purists” and absurdly claiming that no valid criticism had been brought forward.
http://004eeb5.netsolhost.com/hc133.htm
http://004eeb5.netsolhost.com/hc129.htm

[Anti Federalist]

+rep


80% of voters work for the government, Wall Street and Military Industrial Complex, directly or indirectly. The other 20% are unemployed.

Ron scares the living shit out of the majority of those 80% because they positively know what he's talking about and agree with him, but will not give up their livelihood for uncertainty... to the bitter end.

As far as Cain/Fox/what people think:

TV is shit.

BTW, I was there last night. Ron is awesome. None of those other guys raised a million dollars while being absolutely mobbed until security literally had to drag them away from supporters... not in their wildest fucking dreams... ever.

Get with the program and quit sweating nobodies.

Bosso

[puppetmaster]

But .....but he said gubbamint don't create jobs......he must be an outsider /s

[fatjohn]

the fact he was chairman of the fed really creeps me out.

[jmhudak17]

He backed the bailouts? We need to spread this if he gains in the polls.

[Zeeder]

It's like many of you on this board never read "1984" all the way through. We lose. I think many are deluded in thinking, suddenly, the majority of voters are going to to a complete 180 on their voting habits. It isn't going to happen.

I support Ron Paul because he is the only candidate who understands economics, and liberty(johnson too i think). I don't support Ron Paul because I think he can win. The vast majority of Republican voters want to win.........that's it. They don't care about liberty or small government, or if the dollar is going to cave in. These issues are simply phantoms. They aren't real to them. It's just a game. They have never. Not once. In their entire lives voted for a president that reduced the size of government. Suddenly, out of the blue, some sort of awakening or epipheny is going to happen?

We do this to educate and sway. Hopefully , when the dollar actually does collapse we make enough inroads to stop the country from becoming a complete dicatorship.

[RideTheDirt]

Herman Cain (born December 13, 1945) is an American newspaper columnist, businessman, political activist, and radio talk-show host from Georgia. He is best known as the former chairman and CEO of Godfather's Pizza. He is a former deputy chairman (1992–94) and chairman (1995–96) of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City. Cain's newspaper column is distributed by North Star Writers Group. He currently lives in the Atlanta suburbs.
This was an easy one
/thread
Fox news is a joke.

[Vessol]

He doesn't want to audit the Federal Reserve, gee I wonder why not?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiAkeFJXwUk

[gls]

The vast majority of Republican voters want to win.........that's it.

Then why don't they support the candidate that has the best chance to beat Obama??

http://i.imgur.com/5nz0Q.png

I think the problem is that the majority of Republican voters would rather have Obama win reelection than have Ron Paul in the White House because despite the empty rhetoric most in the GOP love big government.

[speciallyblend]

the GOP will make sure Ron Paul does not get the nomination even if it means obama winning a 2nd term. The GOP will make sure obama wins at all cost!!

[zacharyrow]

When will people here be objective???

You all are fucking retarded insane. Cain won the debate to those that matter --- THE FUCKING VOTING PUBLIC ---anyone that is climing FOX news or the Republican establishment is pushing him can suck a dick.

FOX News and the GOP are not the end all by all hypnotists on main street. That is where im hearing of Cain support this morning. Not just in a Frank Luntz Study group.... On my LOCAL radio, at the Coffee shop, through Facebook through friends.

If you really believe this is one big game then you believe that NOBODY which would include yourself has a opinion that is not manufactured by the media, or GOP.

Fuck You -- Cain won..... Now we have to win back those people by learning what he did that suddenly surged his campaign.

First off when you insult people with "Fuck you" and "retarded" and "suck a dick" it just loses all credibility with me. Those who don't insult actually have a point, those who do insult are just mad. You strike me as just mad.

Do you know why those people in coffee shops and facebook think cain won? BECAUSE of the after show. If that focus group said Ron Paul won, then everyone would be all over Ron's nuts. TV is HUGE and we have to find someway to get around that.

Sure maybe Ron can do a better job of "dumbing" it down for everyone, but I mean come on. If America is that naive, then what can we do? They're swayed easily by what they hear on TV and they obviously just listen for buzz words. If they actually listened they would hear Cain spewing out the same shit as everyone else.

[Teaser Rate]

When will people here be objective???

You all are fucking retarded insane. Cain won the debate to those that matter --- THE FUCKING VOTING PUBLIC ---anyone that is climing FOX news or the Republican establishment is pushing him can suck a dick.

FOX News and the GOP are not the end all by all hypnotists on main street. That is where im hearing of Cain support this morning. Not just in a Frank Luntz Study group.... On my LOCAL radio, at the Coffee shop, through Facebook through friends.

If you really believe this is one big game then you believe that NOBODY which would include yourself has a opinion that is not manufactured by the media, or GOP.

Fuck You -- Cain won..... Now we have to win back those people by learning what he did that suddenly surged his campaign.

Thank you for being the voice of reason. (or I should say, fucking voice of reason)

We really need to stop being so subjective and take other candidates seriously if we want to win.

And we're really not going to get anywhere if we start dismissing anyone who's not a Ron Paul supporter as stupid, corrupt or brainwashed.

[S.Shorland]

We had Tony Blair,Then Gordon Brown (a man who actually picked his nose and ate what he found there on television).Now we have David Cameron who is 'cutting' the same way you are: cutting the rate of money expansion,not really cutting at all.People are lazy and stupid and if the 'elite' really do have bad intentions,they already won long ago.It doesn't mean you should stop trying,it just means fighting every day.

[eOs]

It's all about that leader swagger...idiots jump on it.

[iGGz]

Paul/Cain 2012?

[Mini-Me]

People like him because he speaks clearly and authoritatively without actually committing to any positions. They consider him "Presidential" because of this, and they project their own beliefs onto him, much like liberals did with Obama. His businessman credentials make him the average Republican's wet dream too, because as Ron Paul said they're wrongly viewing the budget as an accounting problem. In other words, he's a complete slimeball...and apparently he was Chairman of the Kansas City Federal Reserve for a couple years, too.

[zacharyrow]

Thank you for being the voice of reason. (or I should say, fucking voice of reason)

We really need to stop being so subjective and take other candidates seriously if we want to win.

And we're really not going to get anywhere if we start dismissing anyone who's not a Ron Paul supporter as stupid, corrupt or brainwashed.


And we are going to get places by calling each other, stupid, retarded and dick suckers? Your logic is fascinating to me.

I never knew the voice of reason could use such middle school insults.

[Teaser Rate]

I don't really see why people keep bringing up his tenure as the chairman of the Kansas City Fed as an attack on Cain.

Did he do a bad job while he was there, or is this just guilt by association?

[Vessol]

I don't really see why people keep bringing up his tenure as the chairman of the Kansas City Fed as an attack on Cain.

Did he do a bad job while he was there, or is this just guilt by association?

No need to audit the Federal Reserve, says Herman Cain.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiAkeFJXwUk&feature=player_embedded

The Federal Reserve is THE biggest issue right now.

[Teaser Rate]

And we are going to get places by calling each other, stupid, retarded and dick suckers? Your logic is fascinating to me.

I never knew the voice of reason could use such middle school insults.

Where I come from, using those kinds of words is a sign of respect. It shows you can be honest enough with someone to call what they're doing retarded when it is.

[Xchange]

I don't really see why people keep bringing up his tenure as the chairman of the Kansas City Fed as an attack on Cain.

Did he do a bad job while he was there, or is this just guilt by association?

He's a banker...who supported Tarp/Bailouts/nationalizing the banks

need there be more?

[zacharyrow]

Where I come from, using those kinds of words is a sign of respect. It shows you can be honest enough with someone to call what they're doing retarded when it is.

So not only do you like insults and bad ones at that. You also assume that we are indeed acting retarded. It's not just an opinion anymore it's a fact, right? Shucks. Guess I've lost this battle.

[AuH20]

People like him because he speaks clearly and authoritatively without actually committing to any positions. They consider him "Presidential" because of this, and they project their own beliefs onto him, much like liberals did with Obama. His businessman credentials make him the average Republican's wet dream too, because as Ron Paul said they're wrongly viewing the budget as an accounting problem. In other words, he's a complete slimeball...and apparently he was Chairman of the Kansas City Federal Reserve for a couple years, too.

Bingo.

[Teaser Rate]

No need to audit the Federal Reserve, says Herman Cain.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiAkeFJXwUk&feature=player_embedded

The Federal Reserve is THE biggest issue right now.

I know I'm going to beat my record for negative rep for saying this, but I don't really have a problem with what he said in that clip.

[Teaser Rate]

He's a banker...who supported Tarp/Bailouts/nationalizing the banks

need there be more?

One does not follow the other.

The fact that he worked for the Fed in 95-96 has nothing to do with his subsequent support of the bailouts.

Btw, what do you mean by he's a banker, are you implying that there's something wrong with being a banker?

[Valli6]

FOX was definitely proping him up. Maybe they are looking forward to being able to constantly compare his treatment to Obama's when anything negative is said about him (race carding)? :confused:

[pcosmar]

If Cain made anything clear,,, he made one thing clear.

He would be run by "advisers".

Well, Trot them out !!,
lets vote on them them.

[Teaser Rate]

If Cain made anything clear,,, he made one thing clear.

He would be run by "advisers".

Well, Trot them out !!,
lets vote on them them.

Every administration is run by advisers, 90% of the job is picking the right people and knowing when to listen to them.

You don't believe Ron would run his administration by himself, do you?

Edit: I missed the point of your post, didn't I?

[georgiaboy]

Bingo.

yep.

just heard a local radio guy ask "which of these guys do you want to pick up the phone at 3am when the asteroid hits the US? Cain"
to the radio-con, Paul was a side-show.

My prayers continue that people see through all this. Also, that over time Cain will have to lend substance and his TARP & Fed support will come back to bite him.

US doesn't need a king - it needs an Article 2 president.

[libertybrewcity]

he kept saying "Define the objective...have a plan.." blah blah blah. He offered nothing of substance. He isn't even giving talking points. His support sure isn't showing in the polls.

[ForLibertyFight]

Ron needs a DEBATE COACH!!!!!

[fatjohn]

I don't really see why people keep bringing up his tenure as the chairman of the Kansas City Fed as an attack on Cain.

Did he do a bad job while he was there, or is this just guilt by association?

Guilt by association and rightfully so. Plus that they try to hide that fact. Like being a ceo of a pizza place dwarfs being a fed chairman.

But yes, he won the debate. Ron did not. He stumbled over words, Gary came across even less presidential than ron. Santorum was scary, and pawlenty was slimey. Cain won, Ron was an honourable second. Cain did not said anything substantial but he came across like a leader, while not being an obvious douchebag and that is what people want.

What I'm wondering is who's support is he going to draw? Romney's I guess. And if that is the case that is fine, although it might give even better polls to huckalberry who would be stimulated even more to run again. And with half of Huck's army going to ron if Huck drops out, we do not want him to run.

[Zeeder]

Then why don't they support the candidate that has the best chance to beat Obama??

http://i.imgur.com/5nz0Q.png

I think the problem is that the majority of Republican voters would rather have Obama win reelection than have Ron Paul in the White House because despite the empty rhetoric most in the GOP love big government.

I agree completely. The GOP love big government. When I said they want to "win". I should have said. They want to win the progressive game.

I don't think that drudge story means anything either. There is no way a person who wants to end 50% of government spending is going to win a general election in this country.

[pcosmar]

Edit: I missed the point of your post, didn't I?

Yes,,
You did.
Ron made the distinction in the "debate"..
It is , Principles

That was the point that he made, and was notably missing or different with the other men on that stage.
Ron Does not believe that the government gas any business controlling or regulating the mind , body or spirit of anyone.
That is based on a principal.

The whole spectacle has been so disgusting thus far that I had to get away from the computer a few times.
I've been out rolling ******s to clear my mind.
:(

[Theocrat]

I still think Congressman Paul won the debate (because I understand where he's coming from), but Cain won the debate to FOX News and the SC GOP because of three things:

He's not a politician (like Trump), so he doesn't have a whole lot of political baggage with him.
He's speaks the language of the typical uninformed voter, without the philosophical considerations and historical analysis that Dr. Paul has, which causes a person to actually think about the issues critically.
(And I hate to say this one...) He's Black, which makes him different from regular conservatives and competitive with Obama in the "Race race" that has become part of our political culture nowadays.

[TomtheTinker]

e should have said made better points about the whole legalization of drugs. Saying how the war on drugs is a joke and a waste of money would have been a good start. One of the debaters said we should focus on drugs as a health issue and not a crime issue. That really resonates with people........


I was watching the debate with a friend who isn't all that politically active and he was truly intrigued by Paul's response. My buddy knew who Ron Paul was but really didn't know much of what he believes in. By time the debate was over he said I just might vote for this guy. He thought his answers made sense and had much insight on subjects.

IMO I think Ron should do what Ron has been doing..saying what needs to be said and being unapologetic about it. Sure it would be nice to turn Ron into a libertybot with a voice made for the radio and answers that make sense to even a child and appeals to peoples emotions..but its just not going to happen.

We need to play the hand that has been dealt..which happens to be a consistent honest little old man with awkward poster and anxiety who speaks the truth and makes sense if you take more than 30 seconds to thinks about it..

The key is in the message of liberty and Ron Paul is the guy who is carrying the torch for better or worse.

[Occam's Banana]

I don't really see why people keep bringing up his tenure as the chairman of the Kansas City Fed as an attack on Cain.

Did he do a bad job while he was there, or is this just guilt by association?

Yes.

[HarryBrowneLives]

Ron's underlying message is bulletproof but given the blatant media hostility and soundbyte oriented debate format, we need a new messenger. You're absolutely correct.

I love Ron to death and will work for him as hard or harder than I have since '07, that said, ...(and I've said this for a looong time). Rand is much better at this than Ron is in terms of "selling liberty". Ron needs a Coach to sit down with him and come up with 50 different or best ways in soundbite format to talk about an issue. We have the right product at the right time, but without effective salesmanship, less people will buy in. Realistically, we have 4 seconds per topic in that debate to catch peoples eyes and ears. Ron is not Rand or someone else. He's older, he fumbles a bit and gets ahead of himself, doesn't communicate as effectively as he could from time to time but with such a Coach he could be more effective and he needs to understand that. Heck, Micheal Jordan had a Coach.

[YumYum]

Question: Is there anybody on this forum who could do a better job than Ron Paul in the debates? I know I couldn't.

[pcosmar]

He got one huge point across.
Principles, and who doesn't have them.

[pacelli]

Can someone explain the fascination with this guy? I just don't get it.

Why is he being pushed. How can anyone listen to him and still take him seriously.
What did he say that that I somehow missed? I watched the "Debate" (if you can really call it that)
Cain came off as inarticulate, Had no view on anything except "Fair Tax".
Has no plan nor direction. No "message".
Why is he being pushed? why is Fox pushing him? Phoney Frank is no doubt getting paid well for his manipulation. Why?

I have one idea why. (but it is so disgusting, I don't even like to think it.)
Help me find some other reason for this shit.
:(

He's being pushed right now because he is a stand-in. He is the stand-in "successful business man" that declared instead of Trump. For whatever reason, Trump didn't want "in" on the debate, so Cain had to fill in. That's why he is being pushed. Had trump formed an exploratory committee, he would have received the push from Frank's focus group. Wait and see what happens when Trump and Cain are in a debate together.

[HarryBrowneLives]

I'm not perfect either, and being a Monday morning QB is a LOT easier than being up on that stage in front of a gazillion people on national TV. It was meant as constructive. Everybody can be better than they are at something ... yours truly included!

[pcosmar]

He's being pushed right now because he is a stand-in. He is the stand-in "successful business man" that declared instead of Trump. For whatever reason, Trump didn't want "in" on the debate, so Cain had to fill in. That's why he is being pushed. Had trump formed an exploratory committee, he would have received the push from Frank's focus group. Wait and see what happens when Trump and Cain are in a debate together.

Possible,,
I got the distinct "stand in sort of guy" from a couple others.

[demolama]

Its real simple Cain: has no political record to show for his past; so he can say anything. (people have short memories anyhow)
appeals to the warhawks w/ waterboarding and war.
Shows he knows a thing or two about economics without talking "kooky" stuff such as ending the Fed.
Appeals to social conservatives
Appeals to those who see themselves in terms of race



Warhawks will never vote for Paul... period... they love empire and perpetual war

[LibertyEagle]

Exactly. The major problem is the ideological bubble we're all comfortablly nestled in. We have exhaustively read Ron's books. We FULLY understand his positions. Not everyone knows his positions, which is partially attributable to the bias at FOX as well as Ron's tendency to veer off course.

Yup. Cain acted strong, people believed he has a plan to turn America around and people understood what he said.

Dr. Paul is doing the same thing he did last go round. This will not win the election. He does not talk to the regular voter and they do not understand him. He has to come forth with a plan that people think will work. He has to appear strong. I really wish he would bring someone in to help him prepare for these debates before it is too late.

[Badger Paul]

Given that RP is the first candidate will have an operational headquarters open in Iowa next week and just raised over million dollars in one day, do you all think it really, really matters who "won" this debate much of the potential field of candidates didn't bother to participate in?

Herman Cain couldn't win a primary in own home state in his try for electoral office. I'm sure he spoke really well back then but it didn't matter.

Alan Keyes was a great speaker too. Look where he is now...

[LibertyEagle]

Its real simple Cain: has no political record to show for his past; so he can say anything.
appeals to the warhawks w/ waterboarding and war.
Shows he knows a thing or two about economics without talking "kooky" stuff such as ending the Fed.
Appeals to social conservatives

Warhawks will never vote for Paul... period... they love empire and perpetual war

That is not true at all. IF he could sell them on it. It's all in how he phrases it.

[HarryBrowneLives]

I would be suprised if Trump was ever in a debate. Two things here on Cain. He really didn't get a lot of oddball questions like Paul did but seemed to get more time. He got served up a LOT of softballs and even seemed perplexed on what should have been an easy one on Afganistan. I'm not a conspiracy guy, but we have seen FOX (in particular) serve up a LOT of groupthink with candidates and debates to the sheeple over the past few years from crimes of omission, to (FU FRANK) coached Focus groups with the same people showing up, skewd commentators, oddball/staged questions, time limits, cast in worst possible light, polling ... basically, Fox "democracy on a stick" where they help form the outcome with their bias in mind. I've seen way to much reality with this from Fox to assume a conspiracy. My personal opinion is that Ron could have knocked it out of the park last night (which I don't think he did, but you may refer to above as to part of the reason) and Fox, FU Frank, and their Talking Heads would have claimed a Mime won the one-on-one debate with Paul if that were the case.

[KramerDSP]

When they asked Herman Cain if he was electable, I immediately thought they were trying to rally the troops around an "outsider" to make the base feel like they're not swallowing the party directives hook line and sinker. And ironically, the base lapped it up hook line and sinker.

[KramerDSP]

Here is the quote from a Daily Paul poster that summarizes the first GOP Debate of 2011.

"If the Debate Questions were Math Problems -

to Cain: Whats 1+1?

to Pawlenty: What's 3-4?

to Santorum: What's 3+2/1?

to Paul: 2x-5y+3z = A+B Solve for x! (and you have one minute. Go!)"

When you consider the above quote, it is clear to me that RP won the debate due to the difficulty of the questions thrown his way. He handled them with ease. I am waiting for the racist newsletter question just before the Ames Iowa Straw Poll. Ron HAS to be ready for that.

[Mini-Me]

Here is the quote from a Daily Paul poster that summarizes the first GOP Debate of 2011.

"If the Debate Questions were Math Problems -

to Cain: Whats 1+1?

to Pawlenty: What's 3-4?

to Santorum: What's 3+2/1?

to Paul: 2x-5y+3z = A+B Solve for x! (and you have one minute. Go!)"

When you consider the above quote, it is clear to me that RP won the debate due to the difficulty of the questions thrown his way. He handled them with ease. I am waiting for the racist newsletter question just before the Ames Iowa Straw Poll. Ron HAS to be ready for that.

It was bad, but Gary definitely got the shaft even more.
To Gary: <silence>
To Gary: <silence>
To Gary: What's your favorite cartoon character? Keep in mind that this is just for fun, not actual points.

[demolama]

I don't think for one second the Luntz's end debate group did not have an effect on people's perception of who "won". Not many people willingly switch channels after the debate especially the typical Fox loyal Republicans. The news told them who was the "best" and the sheep ate it up. Now maybe it's just me but it didn't seem like a quarter of the room had any Charleston accent what-so-ever but then again there are so many transplants into that area now... so who knows

[HarryBrowneLives]

Here is the quote from a Daily Paul poster that summarizes the first GOP Debate of 2011.

"If the Debate Questions were Math Problems -

to Cain: Whats 1+1?

to Pawlenty: What's 3-4?

to Santorum: What's 3+2/1?

to Paul: 2x-5y+3z = A+B Solve for x! (and you have one minute. Go!)"

When you consider the above quote, it is clear to me that RP won the debate due to the difficulty of the questions thrown his way. He handled them with ease. I am waiting for the racist newsletter question just before the Ames Iowa Straw Poll. Ron HAS to be ready for that.

The trick was they gave Paul few enough softballs to try and keep the skew factor down, but excluded him on most all the economic questions that would have been his bread and butter and really created a separation between himself and the others. Furthermore, they severly limited the interaction between debaters where this could have been used to help him stand out more in a positive light. Instead, they gave him the opportunity where he had no choice but to stand out in a negative light on the social issues such as gay rights, drugs, etc. Even with that, I have noticed he's taken a much more lighthearted approach in those situations which helped the cause quite a bit. On the other hand, they could have just as easily asked Cain about TARP when asking TPAW about Cap and Trade and Sanitorium about the woman's place is in the home matter. A lot of it is what questions your asked, what your not asked, and when vs others.

[NiceGoing]

Can someone explain the fascination with this guy? I just don't get it.

Why is he being pushed. How can anyone listen to him and still take him seriously.
What did he say that that I somehow missed? I watched the "Debate" (if you can really call it that)
Cain came off as inarticulate, Had no view on anything except "Fair Tax".
Has no plan nor direction. No "message".
Why is he being pushed? why is Fox pushing him? Phoney Frank is no doubt getting paid well for his manipulation. Why?

I have one idea why. (but it is so disgusting, I don't even like to think it.)
Help me find some other reason for this shit.
:(

They've chosen him to prove they have the power to enact any damn thing they choose --
POWER and EGO, my dear sir.
I think they would find it....amusing.

[pcosmar]

Yup. Cain acted strong,

I was looking for the rollie eyes. i didn't see them.
Did we watch the same show?

Dr. Paul made a huge point. And I hope more caught it than is apparent in or to the Media.
Principles ,,,he haz them.

[pcosmar]

They've chosen him to prove they have the power to enact any damn thing they choose --
POWER and EGO, my dear sir.
I think they would find it....amusing.
Oh, they're going for the Capt Tony approach,
http://nagsheadhoboken.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/2010-10-29_01-05-05_699.jpg

[KramerDSP]

I don't think for one second the Luntz's end debate group did not have an effect on people's perception of who "won". Not many people willingly switch channels after the debate especially the typical Fox loyal Republicans. The news told them who was the "best" and the sheep ate it up. Now maybe it's just me but it didn't seem like a quarter of the room had any Charleston accent what-so-ever but then again there are so many transplants into that area now... so who knows

The focus group with Luntz was done three hours away from Charleston. None of them saw the entire city filled with Ron Paul signs, RP supporters, the whole shebang. And Luntz probably screened the focus group. Luntz is the absolute master at using words to coerce reactions out of people, and nobody int he group wanted every other person to call them out on national TV, so it was a great case of peer pressure cominded with choice words used by Luntz to induce answers he was looking for.

[HarryBrowneLives]

I don't think for one second the Luntz's end debate group did not have an effect on people's perception of who "won". Not many people willingly switch channels after the debate especially the typical Fox loyal Republicans. The news told them who was the "best" and the sheep ate it up. Now maybe it's just me but it didn't seem like a quarter of the room had any Charleston accent what-so-ever but then again there are so many transplants into that area now... so who knows

This has already been exposed to some degree in the last campaign where "Mr. Frank" was asked to comment on his take on the deabate in the focus group in FL with Fox and then "Mr. Frank" was asked again in the Fox focus group in NH where he showed up and one of our guys caught it and made a tube out of it. FYI, it ws Greenville (Upstate SC) not Charleston.

I tend to agree with that. I would have loved to see some real, non-biased, poll to average people who watched the debate on TV as to who "won" without the post-debate bias. My guess is you would have had two to four people fairly close in this case. Of course, you won't get that ( and Fox doesn't want you to think for yourself) that's why we have FU Frank to tell all us morons from the "experts".

[LibertyEagle]

I have said this before, but I think it bears repeating.

My Mother was a national delegate for Barry Goldwater, Sr. She is gone, but I asked some of the people she worked on this campaign with, how they got the Republican nomination.

They said they learned the game, played it better than the establishment did and overwhelmed them with numbers. In other words, they were very active in their local and state GOP, they learned how to get someone elected and became very familiar with all the tools and tasks and then they completely overwhelmed the establishment with a HUGE supporter base who was willing to execute. Including the mundane tasks such as identifying likely voters through phone banking, canvassing, etc. Last, but not least, they got out the vote.

Goldwater did his part too. He understood his audience and spoke to their concerns. He was well-prepared.

[JohnGalt1225]

Here is the quote from a Daily Paul poster that summarizes the first GOP Debate of 2011.

"If the Debate Questions were Math Problems -

to Cain: Whats 1+1?

to Pawlenty: What's 3-4?

to Santorum: What's 3+2/1?

to Paul: 2x-5y+3z = A+B Solve for x! (and you have one minute. Go!)"

When you consider the above quote, it is clear to me that RP won the debate due to the difficulty of the questions thrown his way. He handled them with ease. I am waiting for the racist newsletter question just before the Ames Iowa Straw Poll. Ron HAS to be ready for that.
I'm sure Cain would count on his fingers again "Well ya see here, that's really a four point problem *insert joke* *pause for laughter* *folksy platitude in down home southern calm assertive voice* *never answer question.*"

Tim Pawlenty would assure us that it's -1 because Barack Obama's weak on defense.

Rick Santorum wouldn't answer, he'd just assure us that god hates gays and that he'd waterboard the answer out of terrorists at Gitmo.

[RonPaulGetsIt]

controlled opposition for sure...don't discount it either. If a freshman senator from illinois can pushed in by power elite money anyone can. They are throwing out a number of guys (and Palin) hoping one will collect the liberty vote.

[LibertyEagle]

None of this should be a surprise.

They would do most anything not to have Ron Paul as President. There is a huge amount of money and power involved and they darn well do not plan to lose it.

They will not play softball with Dr. Paul. He has to expect that and be ready with answers and his plan for putting America on the right path. It has to be phrased such that the regular Republican voter understands it.

Running for President these days is just like executing a marketing plan. Consider Frank Luntz's role in that. Either we understand that and play the game better than they do, or we will lose. Griping that reality is what it is, will not win the race.

[pcosmar]

Running for President these days is just like executing a marketing plan.

If this is a plan, I am looking forward to it biting them in the ass.

[LibertyEagle]

If this is a plan, I am looking forward to it biting them in the ass.

Huh?

The point is that we have to understand and play the election game better than the other guys. That does not mean we sacrifice principle. Think of how Rand ran his campaign. He and Ron agree on most things, but it sure sounded different when Rand said it. Rand spoke to their concerns and he spoke on their level. Instead of just focusing on what is f'ed up, he provided solutions.

People are going to vote for whomever gives them a warm, fuzzy feeling about putting America back on its feet. This person also has to be seen as someone who will "keep them safe." Yes, I know that is disgusting, but it is reality.

This is no different than marketing a product or an idea. First, you have to understand your target audience and address their needs. Whomever does this the best, will win.

[pcosmar]

Huh?



It is not just the media or any one campaign. It is systemic. And it is the GOP.
They seriously need to change their tune. On several points.

I am hoping that there are a lot more folks that see this shit for what it is rather that buying the media hype.
There was only one man on that stage worth consideration. Only one that represents ME.

The first thing the GOP should do behind this is to come out publicly against the use of torture at any time.
Then come out for Constitutional defense of Civil Rights. (like they used to be)

And Cain's endorsement of Consensus of the Power Brokers for a plan is just,,, bizarre.

[LibertyEagle]

It is not just the media or any one campaign. It is systemic. And it is the GOP.
They seriously need to change their tune. On several points.

I am hoping that there are a lot more folks that see this shit for what it is rather that buying the media hype.
There was only one man on that stage worth consideration. Only one that represents ME.

The first thing the GOP should do behind this is to come out publicly against the use of torture at any time.
Then come out for Constitutional defense of Civil Rights. (like they used to be)

And Cain's endorsement of Consensus of the Power Brokers for a plan is just,,, bizarre.

The GOP is their membership. Where we have gotten involved, we will have a lot of sway. In states where we have not, we will not.

You know as well as I do that the conservative movement was taken over by Trotsky-loving ex-Democrat neoconservatives. They sweet talked their way in there, yes, and that was a marketing ploy too. A number of conservatives do not realize what happened and they were gradually swayed. They can be swayed back!

We either outdo them at their own game, or cry in our beers. That is what I think the bottom line is.

Politics is marketing. We can beat them, but we first have to understand it, embrace it, and then do it much better than they.

[pcosmar]

The GOP is their membership. Where we have gotten involved, we will have a lot of sway. In states where we have not, we will not.

You know as well as I do that the conservative movement was taken over by Trotsky-loving ex-Democrat neoconservatives. They sweet talked their way in there, yes, and that was a marketing ploy too.

We either outdo them at their own game, or cry in our beers. That is what I think the bottom line is.

Well, compromise has gotten us where we are. And it has never done much good for me.

And I ain't ever been good at kissing ass.
And I know I am not alone. I just don't know if there are really enough of us,
And if people were really buying that shit I watched,,,,,,,,

[AuH20]

Well, compromise has gotten us where we are. And it has never done much good for me.

And I ain't ever been good at kissing ass.
And I know I am not alone. I just don't know if there are really enough of us,
And if people were really buying that shit I watched,,,,,,,,

We haven't even gotten our asses in the door to compromise. LOL The Neos have blocked every entrance for close to 50 years. But the big difference these days is that they're extremely weak and our numbers are growing.

[LibertyEagle]

Well, compromise has gotten us where we are. And it has never done much good for me.
Who said anything about compromising? I most certainly did not.


And I ain't ever been good at kissing ass.
And I know I am not alone. I just don't know if there are really enough of us,
And if people were really buying that shit I watched,,,,,,,,

No one asked you to kiss ass. But, if we expect a different outcome by doing the same shit we did last time, we will be sorely disappointed.

There are tried and true methods of getting people elected. If we ignore them, it will be at our own peril.

[Teaser Rate]

Running for President these days is just like executing a marketing plan. Consider Frank Luntz's role in that. Either we understand that and play the game better than they do, or we will lose. Griping that reality is what it is, will not win the race.

Couldn't agree more.

The first step is to stop treating institutions as wholes and target the useful portions of each. The media, republican establishment and electorate do not all share the same goals and incentives. Some want different things than us, and others share at least some of our positions. Do not try to fight the media or establishment, use it to your advantage.

For debate preparation, my advice for Ron is to meet with his political advisers to target a narrow group of voters and then tailor every possible answer to match their expectations. When preparing an answer, a good candidate doesn't ask himself "how can I answer this question to the best of my abilities?" but "how can I give the answer which will most please the voters I'm targeting?".

Ron already has the anti-Fed and anti-foreign intervention vote, he needs to start targeting other, more mainstream Republican voters.

[pcosmar]

There are tried and true methods of getting people elected. If we ignore them, it will be at our own peril.
None of that has much to do with my conundrum about the Hoop-la over Cain.

and how anyone with functioning brain cells can equate anything about him to republican ideals or conservative values.

it boggles

[HarryBrowneLives]

"Running for President these days is just like executing a marketing plan. Consider Frank Luntz's role in that. Either we understand that and play the game better than they do, or we will lose. Griping that reality is what it is, will not win the race."

+1776, and no, it does NOT mean we have to compromise on anything to do that, nor, after 25 yrs would I certainly advocate that. We're not scratching, biting, and clawing our way up the political food chain to just eat vegetables.

I remember a portion of a Socialology class in college with a discussion on poltical movements and Power Resources. The topic was about the Civil Rights Era, but it applies here as well.

Right now, the neocons hold on power comes from the radio and TV media. Our's is the internet and active/boots-on-the ground supporters. That was evident last night. We are at war over the mindset of a voting populace. They have an air war. We have a ground war.

What the insider group that I was a part of here in Rand's camp did was we beat the opposition with blazing speed of technology to counter all their efforts against us so that they were always a half step behind us.

Secondly, no matter what they threw at us, Rand was smart enough to stay on message with bullet point style ideas that nobody could disagree with ... "Read the Bills, Balance the Budget, Term Limits". My mantra would be, "It's the economy stupid" ... heroin problem? ... it's because of the economy. Afganistan ... it's detrimental to the economy and here's why. "What kind of reality show would you have if you had your own show like The Apprentice, Dr. Paul? "I would have a show that presented the real lives of small business owners who are being harmed by the crazy policies of the current administration and what we can do to [/I[I]]change them ... and here's the first episode topic ..."

[demolama]

I agree.. Ron should tie everything he can to the economy. If people truly vote with their bellies, as he says, it should stick

[HarryBrowneLives]

... It should be a noun a verb and THE ECONOMY

[georgiaboy]

The trick was they gave Paul few enough softballs to try and keep the skew factor down, but excluded him on most all the economic questions that would have been his bread and butter and really created a separation between himself and the others. Furthermore, they severly limited the interaction between debaters where this could have been used to help him stand out more in a positive light. Instead, they gave him the opportunity where he had no choice but to stand out in a negative light on the social issues such as gay rights, drugs, etc. Even with that, I have noticed he's taken a much more lighthearted approach in those situations which helped the cause quite a bit. On the other hand, they could have just as easily asked Cain about TARP when asking TPAW about Cap and Trade and Sanitorium about the woman's place is in the home matter. A lot of it is what questions your asked, what your not asked, and when vs others.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HarryBrowneLives again.

[showpan]

Ron needs a DEBATE COACH!!!!!

not just a debate coach, he should hire a comedy actor because that is what the sheeple want, they want a witty, one liner, throw it back in the other guys face like Bush did. Didn't really matter if what he said made any sense, he just kept poking jabs at Gore and people loved it.

[georgiaboy]

thread of the day award. jewels in here folks.

[pcosmar]

... It should be a noun a verb and THE ECONOMY

Meh,,
Yes and no. The economy may be one good selling point. BUT,,(and I say this as someone that has been unemployed for several years)
Money really isn't everything. It helps,, in a great many areas. But it is not everything.
Honest Money would be nice.
And that is where things get down to principles.

I used to be somewhat more mercenary at one point. I did some things that were against my own personal and somewhat fluid values.and have had some lessons on consequences.
Principles, first. That in itself would tend toward honest money.
And a sane foreign policy. A respect for Civil Rights.

And I only saw one man up there with principles.
Cain just seems so polar opposite to,,, well, everything.
:(
I keep hoping it is a bad dream, and I will wake up before debate day.
:rolleyes:

[FreedomProsperityPeace]

But, if we expect a different outcome by doing the same shit we did last time, we will be sorely disappointed.What we did last time started the whole Tea Party movement, and changed the political landscape as well as the GOP. We can reap now what we sowed back then. At the very least, we will keep building upon the gains we've made and set the stage for Rand or another liberty candidate. This is a long hard slog, not just about one election, but it is working.

[HarryBrowneLives]

I don't disagree. We just need some tweaks here and there. Little spit and polish:)

[georgiaboy]

I don't disagree. We just need some tweaks here and there. Little spit and polish:)

Yeah, maybe Ron can have some more constructive campaigning/debating conversations with his Senator son. It's obvious he's already had some.

I wanna win this time.

[HarryBrowneLives]

Even if we don't win, I want to see those poll numbers move in our direction and stick it to the neocon wing.

[cindy25]

Fox wants Cain on the ticket as VP, or as a future host.

one thing Ron could do is introduce legislation in the house abolishing the federal gas tax, to be paid for by ending foreign aid. this would force the Israel firsters to choose. and to tag the gas tax as the foreign aid entitlement tax.

[PineGroveDave]

The guy "presented" himself well last night. How is that many of you are missing this? Are you so enamored with RP to realize this? Cain did a great job! He took talking points straight out of RP's playbook and presented them in a very good manner. Other than the RP talking points, he had absolutely nothing to say other than some neocon mumbo-jumbo about torture and maintaining illegal occupations in the name of "American Empire" (not to mention that worthless "I'll come up with a plan once I assemble my team" crap). Frankly, much to my chagrin...we're in trouble IMO. And I really want RP as my next Commander in Chief. Why do I say that? I've been on other forums and a lot of folks were quite impressed with the guy, and it's because they generally have no clue about the serious problem we're in and they're looking for a candidate that "warm and fuzzy" that'll give them a stiffy.

For those of you who think the American populace is going to "wake up" and realize that voting for RP is the thing to do...heh...Don't hold your breath. I certainly am not. Although I will go on record and pray that I am proved wrong on this point. I do still remain hopeful enough to spread the man's message and ideology.

[RPIdeaMan08]

i thought it was hilarious to see the incompetent people faux expects to pick a "popular" candidate back fire on them.

[pacelli]

Possible,,
I got the distinct "stand in sort of guy" from a couple others.

Ditto. I feel like the whole friggin debate was a dress rehearsal for the media.

[pacelli]

None of this should be a surprise.

They would do most anything not to have Ron Paul as President. There is a huge amount of money and power involved and they darn well do not plan to lose it.

They will not play softball with Dr. Paul. He has to expect that and be ready with answers and his plan for putting America on the right path. It has to be phrased such that the regular Republican voter understands it.

Running for President these days is just like executing a marketing plan. Consider Frank Luntz's role in that. Either we understand that and play the game better than they do, or we will lose. Griping that reality is what it is, will not win the race.

I agree. And as a grassroots, there is only so much we can do to contend with it. We need the campaign to come out strong and demonstrate some leadership.

[YumYum]

Who would you suggest that demonstrates strong leadership?

[pcosmar]

Who would you suggest that demonstrates strong leadership?
Define.

Though,,,,
I am not looking for a leader. I am looking for a representative.
I would say Ron Paul represents me.

[PaulConventionWV]

What we did last time started the whole Tea Party movement, and changed the political landscape as well as the GOP. We can reap now what we sowed back then. At the very least, we will keep building upon the gains we've made and set the stage for Rand or another liberty candidate. This is a long hard slog, not just about one election, but it is working.

I agree. This is what I love about the liberty movement. Despite the fact that some people get way too caught up in talking points and "style," it's about making our ideas known. I just love the fact that there is recognizable progress. It IS working, and will continue to work, as long as we stay true to our message. We shouldn't waste our time criticizing Ron. We should support him and defend him, not criticize him or his campaign.

That said, though, I really feel this is the time we need to try to win the election. This no time for in-fighting. It is time to weld this idea into the minds of the American public and try to get Ron elected! Just please let Ron do his job the best way he knows how. You may disagree, but we can't just change our ideas according to whomever speaks the loudest. Let Ron do the talking to the masses, and you can win people over in private however you want.

[YumYum]

Define.

Though,,,,
I am not looking for a leader. I am looking for a representative.
I would say Ron Paul represents me.

I was responding to this comment made by pacelli:


We need the campaign to come out strong and demonstrate some leadership.

I don't understand what qualities that some on this forum think that Ron Paul is lacking. Do people think that the powers who control this country would allow a man to become president who refuses to be their puppet?

Look at Abraham Lincoln. He was murdered by the very people who put him in office because he refused to do their bidding by pillaging and punishing the South. When Lincoln said in his speech "With malice towards none, with charity for all" he signed his own death warrant.

Look at Hitler. He did not create the Nazi Party. He was a tool that the founders of the Nazis used as a focus for the German people, because he was charismatic and a great speaker. Hitler did two things that guaranteed his defeat and death: 1) He made a pact with the House of Rothchild through Max Warberg that he didn't keep; 2) As soon as he had absolute power, he had killed all of the Nazi leaders who put him as leader of Germany.

Leaders are not true leaders. They are puppets, as you know, and when any leader gets the bright idea to break free from their puppet-masters, they are taken out. Ron Paul will be nobody's puppet. That is why the bankers who run this world will never allow him to be president.

[Noob]

still supporting ron....

[jbuttell]

I should just ignore this post because it's nonsense, but it's such bullshit I can't help but say something.

I watched the entire debate, Cain didn't say shit, short of briefly promoting fair tax and answering with cliche, vague points about how he has no idea how things work and can't really answer the question, but he'll consult with those that do once elected, so they can tell him what he needs to do. That guy in the focus group who said Cain answered the most directly is so full of shit, just like those who think his responses had any substance.

On what basis did Cain win? Crowd response? It definitely wasn't the strongest, by far.

Focus group means nothing? Is that right? Funny, I bet a lot of them watched that very same focus group boasting how great Cain was. You apparently give them far more credit than I do to believe they weren't influenced by this.


When will people here be objective???

You all are fucking retarded insane. Cain won the debate to those that matter --- THE FUCKING VOTING PUBLIC ---anyone that is climing FOX news or the Republican establishment is pushing him can suck a dick.

FOX News and the GOP are not the end all by all hypnotists on main street. That is where im hearing of Cain support this morning. Not just in a Frank Luntz Study group.... On my LOCAL radio, at the Coffee shop, through Facebook through friends.

If you really believe this is one big game then you believe that NOBODY which would include yourself has a opinion that is not manufactured by the media, or GOP.

Fuck You -- Cain won..... Now we have to win back those people by learning what he did that suddenly surged his campaign.

[S.Shorland]

Cain ain't Able

Maybe accost him with 'Hey,Bailout Boy!'

[Morerockin]

Everyone please share this video to qwell Herman Cain's popularity!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQFfhoRWXGQ&feature=channel_video_title

[S.Shorland]

Doesn't he have one?They must have one of those,surely?

Ron needs a DEBATE COACH!!!!!

[S.Shorland]

At least FOX are still willing to credit him the Tea Party and he didn't throw it away this time! The Tea Party was formed by RP friendlies.When they acknowledge that,they are forced to acknowledge the power of his ideas and this will force them to think.

[BlackTerrel]

When will people here be objective???

You all are fucking retarded insane. Cain won the debate to those that matter --- THE FUCKING VOTING PUBLIC ---anyone that is climing FOX news or the Republican establishment is pushing him can suck a dick.

FOX News and the GOP are not the end all by all hypnotists on main street. That is where im hearing of Cain support this morning. Not just in a Frank Luntz Study group.... On my LOCAL radio, at the Coffee shop, through Facebook through friends.

If you really believe this is one big game then you believe that NOBODY which would include yourself has a opinion that is not manufactured by the media, or GOP.

Fuck You -- Cain won..... Now we have to win back those people by learning what he did that suddenly surged his campaign.

I don't agree with everything you said here. I don't think Cain won the debate and I think Paul did fine.

That said - there is an inability here to accept that there are actually people who don't support Ron Paul who are not paid plants. It's not that complex really. Some people actually like Cain. Shocker :eek:

I also don't think coverage of Cain has been any better than coverage of Paul, and I've seen a lot of negative coverage of Cain as well.

It's a terrible attitude. "Oh no one actually supports him, it's just the media so what can we do". It leads to never engaging the people who disagree with you since they are all "paid plants" or "braindead sheep"

[Vessol]

I don't really care if people support him or not. If he doesn't support, at the very LEAST, an audit of the Federal Reserve. He is not our ally at all. That is the biggest issue right now and everything stems from it.

[BlackTerrel]

yep.

just heard a local radio guy ask "which of these guys do you want to pick up the phone at 3am when the asteroid hits the US? Cain"
to the radio-con, Paul was a side-show.

Sounds like they are planning a false flag asteroid attack between 2012-2016.

[pcosmar]

It's not that complex really. Some people actually like Cain. Shocker :eek:


Oh, i Know.
but that is what puzzles me most.

I am just hoping that there are enough that don't. that there are not too many of them that do.
I am hoping the seeds planted will will grow, and that the grassroots will stand up. I don't buy all the hype and I know there are a lot of others.

Ron Paul changed the focus of the debate,

[silentshout]

Didn't read all of the responses, but from the debate, I could see why the establishment would like Cain. He is an empty slate, who would pretty much do whatever is popular at the time if he was elected.

[BlackTerrel]

Oh, i Know.
but that is what puzzles me most.

I am just hoping that there are enough that don't. that there are not too many of them that do.
I am hoping the seeds planted will will grow, and that the grassroots will stand up. I don't buy all the hype and I know there are a lot of others.

Ron Paul changed the focus of the debate,

Cain is not going to win. I saw a poll recently where only 20% of Republicans even knew the name Herman Cain.

He has a SMALL dedicated group of followers and is most likely to be what Ron Paul was in 2007-2008.

[HarryBrowneLives]

There's a truth little of both in here, but the way the debate was staged, Cain got a LOT of softballs simply because he is an unknown. Just imagine if one of us were on that stage getting those questions ... the ball would have smashed windsheilds in the parking lot.

At the same time, why was the FU Frank focus group held three hrs away in Charleston not Greenville? Then, majically, 98% of the group is suddenly a Cain supporter when he has 20% name recognition? I don't buy it. We have more grassroots supporters than any of these people, yet nobody knows anything about how to get involved with any of the dozens of focus groups that FU has done since '07?

We can chalk this one up to experience with the new tactics employed by Fox with the focus groups, post debate polls, questions and the like. The next one will be on June 13 in NH by WMUR and CNN ... Thank God.

[stefank]

Herman Cain, is gonna be rocked by a hurricane.

[ssantoro]

As far as Cain/Fox/what people think:

TV is shit.

BTW, I was there last night. Ron is awesome. None of those other guys raised a million dollars while being absolutely mobbed until security literally had to drag them away from supporters... not in their wildest fucking dreams... ever.

Get with the program and quit sweating nobodies.

Bosso

+Rep

[nocompromises]

Herman Cain = Federal Reserve (Big Bailout Bankers who have taken over the USA.)

"In fact, on his radio show earlier this year, Mr. Cain advocated there was no need to audit the Federal Reserve, despite the overwhelming evidence of the central bank's misuse of their charter."

This man is the enemy of small government. His association with the Federal Reserve will give us all the fuel we need to wipe him out.

Also, any who is SANE would oppose the Fair Tax. A 23% national sales tax is INSANE. We need to abolish the income tax, replace it with nothing, and reduce the size of government accordingly. Just bringing our troops home from around the world and ending all foreign aid would make up for it!

[Johncjackson]

Win.

He's not being pushed to go head to head with Obama. There is just so much weakness in that strategy, I don't know where to start. Unless some of you think Foxnews is pushing for the re-election of Obama- which might not be far-fetched.

Edit: This was supposed to quote the post near the beginning that said he wasn't being pushed to win the nomination. He's just being pushed as the chosen "outsider" candidate, and there can only be one.

And based on the way some of us are preoccupied with Cain, maybe Foxnews is beating you. They are giving you a distraction to focus on and drawing your energies away from the bigger enemies. This would be like worrying about Duncan Hunter or Tancredo in 2008.

[FreedomProsperityPeace]

I watched the entire debate, Cain didn't say shit, short of briefly promoting fair tax and answering with cliche, vague points about how he has no idea how things work and can't really answer the question, but he'll consult with those that do once elected, so they can tell him what he needs to do. That guy in the focus group who said Cain answered the most directly is so full of shit, just like those who think his responses had any substance.This.

I spent a long time last night watching his videos on Youtube, and he really didn't say much of anything in those either. He supports a fair tax and a payroll tax holiday...those are the only solid ideas he proposed. Everything else was fluff and lame talking points.