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doodle
05-04-2011, 11:59 AM
Isn't it better that they don't know to be well groomed for new Freedom filled America they will inherit?

Failing Grades on Civics Exam Called a ‘Crisis’
By SAM DILLON
Published: May 4, 2011

Fewer than half of American eighth graders knew the purpose of the Bill of Rights on the most recent national civics examination, and only one in 10 demonstrated acceptable knowledge of the checks and balances among the legislative, executive and judicial branches, according to test results released on Wednesday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/education/05civics.html?hp


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQTz1bccL4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFoa0LsqVbQ

Krugerrand
05-04-2011, 12:12 PM
Isn't it better that they don't know to be well groomed for new Freedom filled America they will inherit?

Failing Grades on Civics Exam Called a ‘Crisis’
By SAM DILLON
Published: May 4, 2011

Fewer than half of American eighth graders knew the purpose of the Bill of Rights on the most recent national civics examination, and only one in 10 demonstrated acceptable knowledge of the checks and balances among the legislative, executive and judicial branches, according to test results released on Wednesday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/education/05civics.html?hp


Particularly sad is the checks that the States had on the Federal government is never taught.

Chester Copperpot
05-04-2011, 12:17 PM
We havent had a civics class in any public school since what.. like 1970?

I know I never had one.. And US History was my favorite subject.. was in AP.. and got great grades... and guess what.

I still didnt know shit.

Following Ron Pauls campaign last go around I learned something new every week.. and I thought I knew everything..

Boy was I ever wrong.

heavenlyboy34
05-04-2011, 12:41 PM
We havent had a civics class in any public school since what.. like 1970?

I know I never had one.. And US History was my favorite subject.. was in AP.. and got great grades... and guess what.

I still didnt know shit.

Following Ron Pauls campaign last go around I learned something new every week.. and I thought I knew everything..

Boy was I ever wrong.

Yep. I aced US history in high school and got a high B in college US history, but still didn't learn anything important.

ClayTrainor
05-04-2011, 12:47 PM
Years ago, In my Canadian civics class we learned all about the glory of public unions, worker strikes and the greatness of democracy. It was all about the power of groups, and had nothing to do with the individual. Sadly, my impressionable mind bought into the nonsense for many years. Since the schools are controlled by public unions, it shouldn't be a surprise i guess...

Vessol
05-04-2011, 12:48 PM
Besides math and physical sciences I learned nothing and continue to learn nothing during my education.

aGameOfThrones
05-04-2011, 01:32 PM
I think that's a win for the government, no?

dbill27
05-04-2011, 01:34 PM
So the 8th graders scored higher than politicians in washington?

Grubb556
05-04-2011, 01:42 PM
Meh, it's not like the Bill of Rights is followed anymore.

ExPatPaki
05-04-2011, 01:54 PM
We havent had a civics class in any public school since what.. like 1970?


We had one in our middle school. I remember the teacher being a little statist bitch, who once asked me (when discussing world events), "How do you know so much?"

Seraphim
05-04-2011, 01:58 PM
Yea, I also remember my grade 12 WORLD ISSUES class.

Now that I think back on it - what a loaded class full of propaganda...The WHO, WTO and UN nonsense was HORRID. So many young adults brainwashed as a result...


Years ago, In my Canadian civics class we learned all about the glory of public unions, worker strikes and the greatness of democracy. It was all about the power of groups, and had nothing to do with the individual. Sadly, my impressionable mind bought into the nonsense for many years. Since the schools are controlled by public unions, it shouldn't be a surprise i guess...

ChaosControl
05-04-2011, 01:58 PM
I don't even remember taking anything on civics until my senior year of high school, and honestly, I don't remember anything from that class either.
I learned what I learned from when I got interested in politics. I don't think most people, regardless the generation, have ever really known much about any of it because most people don't care and forgot anything they might have been taught.

Rothbardian Girl
05-04-2011, 02:20 PM
Yeah, AP Gov is the first civics class I've taken. I remember in sixth, seventh and eighth grade it was all world history from the classical age until the 1750's, then ninth and tenth grade were American history, eleventh grade was world history from the Renaissance to present-day, and now of course AP Gov feels like basically a rehash of American Studies with a few tweaks to focus more on the workings of the US government.

Of course, I have to admit I'm strangely a lot worse with US history than world history as a whole, but I would still consider myself pretty strong at history. Even I could have been able to tell you the purpose of the Bill of Rights in eighth grade, though. But this statistic definitely doesn't surprise me. Kids my age tend to be pretty ignorant of history and geography, as well as current events. Sigh.

awake
05-04-2011, 02:22 PM
That's an A + outcome for the state surf masters.

RokiLothbard
05-04-2011, 02:54 PM
So my answer would be "To trick the properly skeptical anti-Federalist into a a massive cetralization of power".

Do I pass the test?

Anti Federalist
05-04-2011, 03:08 PM
Test yourself at the 12th grade level here:

http://nationsreportcard.gov/civics_2010/sample_quest.asp?tab_id=tab3&subtab_id=Tab_1#chart

Scored 100%

"Advanced" civics students scored an average of 87% on the same bloc of questions.

"Overall" scores on the same bloc of questions was 61%.

Here is a "hard" question, which was only correctly answered by HS seniors 34% of the time:


People who claim that lobbying is a positive force in American politics often argue that lobbyists play an important role by

A supplying members of Congress with information and helping to draft legislation
B giving Supreme Court justices information they need to make decisions in difficult cases
C giving everybody equal power in the political process
D limiting access to public officials

outspoken
05-04-2011, 03:09 PM
I'm willing to bet that 75% of adults couldn't tell you the purpose of the Bill of Rights... but they know who Snookie hooked up with last week on Jersey Shore. 54% of Americans when questioned though Judy Whoppner from People's Court was a Supreme Court Justice. This country is in for a world of hurt.

tasteless
05-04-2011, 03:12 PM
My AP US History class was the first class in which I had a teacher question the Civil War and FDR.

ssantoro
05-04-2011, 03:20 PM
So the 8th graders scored higher than politicians in washington?

+Rep

doodle
05-04-2011, 04:36 PM
I'm willing to bet that 75% of adults couldn't tell you the purpose of the Bill of Rights... but they know who Snookie hooked up with last week on Jersey Shore. 54% of Americans when questioned though Judy Whoppner from People's Court was a Supreme Court Justice. This country is in for a world of hurt.

Wow.
That may explain why some 70% once believed that Iraq had WMDs and was directly linked to 9/11.

MelissaWV
05-04-2011, 04:38 PM
Test yourself at the 12th grade level here:

http://nationsreportcard.gov/civics_2010/sample_quest.asp?tab_id=tab3&subtab_id=Tab_1#chart

Scored 100%

"Advanced" civics students scored an average of 87% on the same bloc of questions.

"Overall" scores on the same bloc of questions was 61%.

Here is a "hard" question, which was only correctly answered by HS seniors 34% of the time:

The phrasing of the answers is a little crazy and unrealistic. I get the feeling I would have turned the test in blank.

libertarian4321
05-04-2011, 04:38 PM
Why would we expect 8th graders to understand the Constitution when most members of Congress don't?

AtomiC
05-04-2011, 04:42 PM
Test yourself at the 12th grade level here:

http://nationsreportcard.gov/civics_2010/sample_quest.asp?tab_id=tab3&subtab_id=Tab_1#chart

Scored 100%

"Advanced" civics students scored an average of 87% on the same bloc of questions.

"Overall" scores on the same bloc of questions was 61%.

Here is a "hard" question, which was only correctly answered by HS seniors 34% of the time:

I got 100%. Its extremely easy lol..

Chester Copperpot
05-04-2011, 04:45 PM
We had one in our middle school. I remember the teacher being a little statist bitch, who once asked me (when discussing world events), "How do you know so much?"

Boy do I wish I had the internet back when I was in high school.. I would have probably pissed off a lot of teachers too... Good job my man.

Anti Federalist
05-04-2011, 07:44 PM
I got 100%. Its extremely easy lol..

That's what I thought.

MelissaWV
05-04-2011, 07:48 PM
That's what I thought.

Me, too. I might clarify what I said earlier, though. Some of the "right answers" are only right because it's the cut and dry version. Look at the question (12th grade) about what made the world more dangerous after WWII if you don't believe me.


The following question refers to the statement below.

The Second World War marked the most substantial change ever in the context in which United States foreign policy is made. The world that emerged after the war had fundamentally changed in economic, political, and military ways. These changes made the world a more dangerous place, and altered the demands placed on foreign policy.

The statement calls the world after the Second World War "a more dangerous place." What specific change could one cite to support this claim?

A. The rise of the European Union (EU)
B. The signing of the General Agreement on Trade and Tariffs (GATT)
C. The decline of German military power
D. The development and spread of nuclear weapons

...or, my favorite...


The photograph (picture of a young girl in a factory) was taken in the United States in 1908. Why would it be unusual to see something like this today?

A. Nobody wants to hire workers who have not been to college.
B. There are laws against using children to work in factories.
C. Very few people work in factories in the United States today.
D. Manufacturers think the minimum wage is too much to pay children.

Anti Federalist
05-04-2011, 08:03 PM
Me, too. I might clarify what I said earlier, though. Some of the "right answers" are only right because it's the cut and dry version.

I've always been exceptionally good at "test taking".

Part of the reason for that is being able to recognize a test's "bias" right from the get go, and then being able to decipher the "correct" answer.

Those questions all reeked of "confirmation bias".

MelissaWV
05-04-2011, 08:07 PM
I've always been exceptionally good at "test taking".

Part of the reason for that is being able to recognize a test's "bias" right from the get go, and then being able to decipher the "correct" answer.

Those questions all reeked of "confirmation bias".

Yep... I was/am the same way. That thing is so insulting, though, that I really think I would just have turned it in blank.

Mini-Me
05-10-2011, 05:20 PM
Test yourself at the 12th grade level here:

http://nationsreportcard.gov/civics_2010/sample_quest.asp?tab_id=tab3&subtab_id=Tab_1#chart

Scored 100%

"Advanced" civics students scored an average of 87% on the same bloc of questions.

"Overall" scores on the same bloc of questions was 61%.

Here is a "hard" question, which was only correctly answered by HS seniors 34% of the time:

It actually is a somewhat difficult question. As Melissa pointed out, some of the questions have multiple correct answers from our point of view. However, the question you posted might even have two correct answers from their point of view. Answer 'A' is pretty factual, but answer C' is what lobbyists for "otherwise disenfranchised" special interest groups might argue. If you view people in terms of segmented groups - as government often does - then equal representation for each group is even better than equal representation for each individual. :rolleyes:

Kludge
05-10-2011, 05:24 PM
History, social studies, civics are being (or have been) taken off of standardized tests in many states. There's no longer an incentive for schools to teach it when the gov't has a knife to their throat so they can excel at the "important" subjects (regurgitation).

Danke
05-10-2011, 05:30 PM
I've never trusted 8th graders. Fake IDs, makeup and all.

QueenB4Liberty
05-10-2011, 06:05 PM
It actually is a somewhat difficult question. As Melissa pointed out, some of the questions have multiple correct answers from our point of view. However, the question you posted might even have two correct answers from their point of view. Answer 'A' is pretty factual, but answer C' is what lobbyists for "otherwise disenfranchised" special interest groups might argue. If you view people in terms of segmented groups - as government often does - then equal representation for each group is even better than equal representation for each individual. :rolleyes:

I agree.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
05-10-2011, 06:41 PM
Particularly sad is the checks that the States had on the Federal government is never taught.

One cannot challenge the Truth. As our Founders could not know this Truth, they did the next best thing by holding certain truths to be self evident (tautological) and unaleinable (analytical) as a natural law.
See, there is a difference between civil rights (the Bill of Rights) and natural rights (the rights we have regardless). A natural right is something that isn't cognitive but literally reduces to the soul (conscience). While the Bill of Rights have never held tyranny in check, natural rights have in the past, through American Movements, held tyranny to their conscience.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
05-10-2011, 06:52 PM
It actually is a somewhat difficult question. As Melissa pointed out, some of the questions have multiple correct answers from our point of view. However, the question you posted might even have two correct answers from their point of view. Answer 'A' is pretty factual, but answer C' is what lobbyists for "otherwise disenfranchised" special interest groups might argue. If you view people in terms of segmented groups - as government often does - then equal representation for each group is even better than equal representation for each individual. :rolleyes:

According to our Founders, there are certain truths which reduce beyond our personal opinions to the level of a bipartisan and unalienable soul (conscience). While the Bill of Rights deal with the material, a natural right is just the way it is.
As a Christian, I believe the Almighty granted me as a member of the worthless multitude all property and wealth by natural right usurping that wealth from His disciples in the process (who felt they were superior to me). He did so by commanding me to recline where I stood.
That natural right belongs to the people. Civil Rights only confuse things. When the U.S. government takes away property and wealth from the people, they become subject to God's judgement.
In the end, the Truth alone defeats the evil of tyranny. It is sufficient in and of itself.

Anti Federalist
05-10-2011, 07:35 PM
I've never trusted 8th graders. Fake IDs, makeup and all.

Awesome.

Danke escaped from his dominatrix's lair!

Welcome back buddy, here, let me help with that ball gag.

Legend1104
05-10-2011, 07:47 PM
I am suprised it is that high. I teach 8th graders and it is pitiful. I may be biased but teachers get to much blame. The system is the problem. I tried to teach civics as best as I can, but kids don't care; and why don't they care? Because we have removed from school any value. Learning has no value and so students see no need to actually learn anything anymore.

georgiaboy
05-10-2011, 07:57 PM
Well obviously the Department of Education is in desperate need of lots more funding and expanded programs and employees so we can address this serious learning crisis! In my next term as president, I will launch my ten year plan to establish a newer, bigger Department of Homeland Enlightenment, incorporating the Department of Education and adding an Education 2.0 Brigade, whose single job will be to deliver iPads to every school age child in America, complete with a new USAPPS series of applications designed to increase every student's comprehension and testing abilities!

<gag>

TruckinMike
05-10-2011, 08:09 PM
Just a reminder ---- Public education is the Tenth Plank of the Communist Manifesto

Kludge
05-11-2011, 04:16 AM
Just a reminder ---- Public education is the Tenth Plank of the Communist Manifesto
Just a reminder -- "Fascism is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of liberalism, both in the political and economic sphere." (Doctrine of Fascism, Mussolini) Therefor, to be opposed to liberalism (Socialism), you must be Fascist UNLESS you have liberal (Socialist) sympathies. You, sir, are either a Socialist or Fascist. Admit it!

NewRightLibertarian
05-11-2011, 04:21 AM
Just a reminder -- "Fascism is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of liberalism, both in the political and economic sphere." (Doctrine of Fascism, Mussolini) Therefor, to be opposed to liberalism (Socialism), you must be Fascist UNLESS you have liberal (Socialist) sympathies. You, sir, are either a Socialist or Fascist. Admit it!

With this kind of reasoning, you should be able to get a job as a pundit

doodle
05-11-2011, 11:52 AM
I am suprised it is that high. I teach 8th graders and it is pitiful. I may be biased but teachers get to much blame. The system is the problem. I tried to teach civics as best as I can, but kids don't care; and why don't they care? Because we have removed from school any value. Learning has no value and so students see no need to actually learn anything anymore.

We hot strong military and winning, education is not that important to grow a kick ass fighting force.

Kylie
05-11-2011, 12:06 PM
I had a discussion about this with my kids, 9th and 7th grade. Come to find out, all that preaching I've done over the last few years has worked! The kids actually knew more about the Bill of Rights than I did!

There is still hope, as long as you don't rely on the educational system to teach everything to your children!