View Full Version : Mike Gravel vs. Ron Paul at the University of Michigan
Ron Paul WINS NO CONTEST!
Mike Gravel Spoke at the University of Michigan in the same spot Ron Paul did a couple of weeks ago. The difference was massive. We had nearly 2,500 people there whereas I'd say Gravel would have been lucky to break 250. The crowd roared for Ron Paul as he delivered a nearly 45 min speech, whereas the response was very subdued for Gravel's 20 or so min affair. The difference in energy cannot be described in words. We had the DIAG at U of M rockin' the whole night whereas Gravel barely made a splash. It will be interesting to see how this is reported in the Michigan Daily. We had a very questionable article emphasizing Pell grants, affirmative action, and the couple extreme supporters in the crowd. You also didn't get the sense of how massive the event was; attendance was not mentioned at all. We had several of our people there hold Ron Paul signs, ironically they didn't publish anything from any of our people in their article on Paul's speech, but they interviewed our other chairman at Gravel's speech.
I'm sick of people drawing undue comparison's between Gravel and Paul, their candidacies are on completely different levels.
RevolutionSD
10-26-2007, 02:43 PM
Ron Paul WINS NO CONTEST!
Mike Gravel Spoke at the University of Michigan in the same spot Ron Paul did a couple of weeks ago. The difference was massive. We had nearly 2,500 people there whereas I'd say Gravel would have been lucky to break 250. The crowd roared for Ron Paul as he delivered a nearly 45 min speech, whereas the response was very subdued for Gravel's 20 or so min affair. The difference in energy cannot be described in words. We had the DIAG at U of M rockin' the whole night whereas Gravel barely made a splash. It will be interesting to see how this is reported in the Michigan Daily. We had a very questionable article emphasizing Pell grants, affirmative action, and the couple extreme supporters in the crowd. You also didn't get the sense of how massive the event was; attendance was not mentioned at all. We had several of our people there hold Ron Paul signs, ironically they didn't publish anything from any of our people in their article on Paul's speech, but they interviewed our other chairman at Gravel's speech.
I'm sick of people drawing undue comparison's between Gravel and Paul, their candidacies are on completely different levels.
Interesting.
Gravel was interviewed by Alex Jones the other day on his show and I actually really like the guy. Although he's no Ron Paul, he is the only other candidate talking about the military-industrial complex, ending the federal reserve and yes even ending the IRS and income tax.
Honestly I think he really likes Ron Paul but unfortunately for him he does not command anywhere near the support or money to be a serious contender.
kylejack
10-26-2007, 02:45 PM
I'd like to see Ron Paul accept the debate offer that Gravel presented him with.
Gravel doesn't have the character history of Ron Paul.
The man has met the moment.
Will we do everything we can, tirelessly, to make sure he wins?
kylejack
10-26-2007, 02:47 PM
Gravel doesn't have the character history of Ron Paul.
?
He was instrumental in ending the draft and the War.
SWATH
10-26-2007, 02:51 PM
I think Gravel will drop out eventually and I feel certain he will endorse Ron Paul. Ha, a Democrat candidate endorsing a Republican candidate! That might get some news.
I'm talking about his personal and financial history.
I think people forget how opportune Dr. Paul is for this cause, right now. Any of us could run on his platform, we might even be able to build up his political credibility, but could our personal lives and decisions bear the scrutiny of millions?
Ron Paul Fan
10-26-2007, 02:56 PM
I'm talking about his personal and financial history.
I think people forget how opportune Dr. Paul is for this cause, right now. Any of us could run on his platform, we might even be able to build up his political credibility, but could our personal lives and decisions bear the scrutiny of millions?
Mine could. We're not all criminals and bankrupt. Gravel has made some mistakes in the past, but who hasn't? Kyle is right about Gravel being a big part in standing up to the draft and Vietnam War. He'll drop out soon, but I like him in the debates calling out Hillary and Obama.
Mine could. We're not all criminals and bankrupt. Gravel has made some mistakes in the past, but who hasn't? Kyle is right about Gravel being a big part in standing up to the draft and Vietnam War. He'll drop out soon, but I like him in the debates calling out Hillary and Obama.
To make it clear, I don't dislike Gravel, and I love him going after the Democons.
But someone with business and personal bankruptcies is a non-starter as a candidate. It might not be fair, but I'm pretty sure we can agree that it is true.
I think Gravel will drop out eventually and I feel certain he will endorse Ron Paul. Ha, a Democrat candidate endorsing a Republican candidate! That might get some news.
he told me that that's never going to happen
Shink
10-26-2007, 03:54 PM
Interesting.
Gravel was interviewed by Alex Jones the other day on his show and I actually really like the guy. Although he's no Ron Paul, he is the only other candidate talking about the military-industrial complex, ending the federal reserve and yes even ending the IRS and income tax.
Honestly I think he really likes Ron Paul but unfortunately for him he does not command anywhere near the support or money to be a serious contender.
Out in the open: Gravel was my candidate until I found Ron. That being said...I lost some respect for him after seeing a video on youtube. A Ron Paul guy who liked Gravel said many RP supporters were concerned w/the NAU/sovereignty issue, and Gravel responded by saying we DO need a global gov't.*
*He said we're not ready for that yet, but I couldn't disagree more about 'needing' one world gov't.
Surprised that wouldn't get touched upon on AJ.
sunny
10-26-2007, 03:57 PM
i saw this youtube video and for the life of me i cannot find it now.
it was gravel being interviewed by some young kid and he was promoting world government and saying that the u s just wasn't ready for it yet........
i thought that was interesting.
anyone here see that?
NinjaPirate
10-26-2007, 04:16 PM
i saw this youtube video and for the life of me i cannot find it now.
it was gravel being interviewed by some young kid and he was promoting world government and saying that the u s just wasn't ready for it yet........
i thought that was interesting.
anyone here see that?
No, but I've been looking for a vid on that,too.
I can't believe he said that, that kind of turned me off to him. :/
newmedia4ron
10-26-2007, 04:35 PM
He says he wants a world government. It was on youtube but has been taken down. he's honest but so wrong here.
amakris
10-26-2007, 11:02 PM
I'd say the crowd was closer to 100 tops. When I walked onto the Diag at 11:55 (the event started at 12:00) there was nobody at all there. I wondered if the event had been moved. I respect Gravel's passion and genuineness. I respect the role he played ending the Vietnam War. I disagree with about 80% of what he says.
That is all :)
RonPaul_Has_2_first_names
10-26-2007, 11:14 PM
If Ron Paul doesn't get the republican nomination, Gravel is who I will then be rooting for.
He's the only other mainstream candidate that's worth a damn.
Though I disagree with a lot of his positions and favor Ron Paul over him, I will also admit that Gravel seems like an honest guy just like Ron Paul, which is why I like him. He also calls out Hillary and Obama on how they are corporate shills. Not only that but I believe Gravel thinks highly of Ron Paul. Gravel has virtually no support though compared to Ron Paul and he has no chance of winning the democratic nomination, it's a shame.
A Ron Paul vs. Gravel in the general election would be the best election in the history of the USA in the past 150+ years.
Is it actually possible for a democrat (gravel) to drop out and endorse a republican candidate? That would be awesome.
realitywiz
10-26-2007, 11:14 PM
Mike Gravel is a great guy, although I feel he is a bit misguided about some issues. Three months ago I was having a contest going on in my mind as to whether I should support Gravel or Ron Paul. Ron Paul won that contest. ;)
Dr. Paul has a longer, consistent history of taking pro-liberty actions throughout his career. He rejects socialism in all of its forms, while I remember watching a Gravel video on YouTube where we described his plan for a universal health care system (a step toward socialism).
Ron Paul would make the best president. But we do need people like Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich in the Congress. We need more people like that, and Dr. Paul of course.
RonPaul_Has_2_first_names
10-26-2007, 11:18 PM
Answer me this people: What's bad about a one world government?
If there was only 1 government, wouldn't there be an end to all wars, since there would be no countries to fight with each other?
Seems like a good idea to me.
I can see the downside is that it would be only one ruler in the entire world ruling over everyone, and no one would have a choice to go somewhere else if they want different laws or want to live a different lifestyle. But wouldn't that maybe be worth it for no more wars and world peace?
kylejack
10-26-2007, 11:20 PM
Answer me this people: What's bad about a one world government?
If there was only 1 government, wouldn't there be an end to all wars, since there would be no countries to fight with each other?
Please note, 1861 - 1865.
RonPaul_Has_2_first_names
10-26-2007, 11:23 PM
Please note, 1861 - 1865.
Ok, yes civil wars can happen. But how many have we had in 300 years? Only one. Compared to how many other conflicts around the world due to there being multiple countries?
werdd
10-26-2007, 11:24 PM
Interesting.
Gravel was interviewed by Alex Jones the other day on his show and I actually really like the guy. Although he's no Ron Paul, he is the only other candidate talking about the military-industrial complex, ending the federal reserve and yes even ending the IRS and income tax.
Honestly I think he really likes Ron Paul but unfortunately for him he does not command anywhere near the support or money to be a serious contender.
i like his middle finger attitude to the other DEMS lol
JosephTheLibertarian
10-26-2007, 11:26 PM
I'm really surprised dems aren't flocking to him... hmm...ah well, who cares :p
TheEvilDetector
10-26-2007, 11:28 PM
Ok, yes civil wars can happen. But how many have we had in 300 years? Only one. Compared to how many other conflicts around the world due to there being multiple countries?
The only way a single global government can work is through massive oppression of the entire globe.
Local customs and traditions with regard to law? Out the window.
Sorry but NO, global government is pure 100% evil.
realitywiz
10-26-2007, 11:29 PM
Answer me this people: What's bad about a one world government?
If there was only 1 government, wouldn't there be an end to all wars, since there would be no countries to fight with each other?
Seems like a good idea to me.
I can see the downside is that it would be only one ruler in the entire world ruling over everyone, and no one would have a choice to go somewhere else if they want different laws or want to live a different lifestyle. But wouldn't that maybe be worth it for no more wars and world peace?
At first glance, a world government seems like a good idea. But in reality, it's a very dangerous idea. Just take a look at what is happening here in America. This country is turning into a fascist empire. But if things get really bad, at least people can pack up and move to another country.
But if there was only one government, and it turned into a dictatorship, where would we go? I don't know of any extraterrestrial nations to settle in. ;)
Besides, the kind of world government that the global elite have envisioned is a dark, cruel, brutal one-world tyranny.
Is anyone here familiar with Aaron Russo? A true patriot... he awakened millions to the truth. Here's an interview with Russo where he describes his friendship with Nicholas Rockefeller and what Rockefeller had told him 11 months prior to the 9/11 event...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5420753830426590918
It's a little over 1 hour long. I highly recommend watching this interview! To learn more about Aaron Russo, click below...
http://www.freedom-force.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=hallofhonor&refpage=home
__
james1906
10-26-2007, 11:46 PM
Yugoslavia's another example on why a one-world government wouldn't work.
amakris
10-26-2007, 11:59 PM
Answer me this people: What's bad about a one world government?
If there was only 1 government, wouldn't there be an end to all wars, since there would be no countries to fight with each other?
Seems like a good idea to me.
I can see the downside is that it would be only one ruler in the entire world ruling over everyone, and no one would have a choice to go somewhere else if they want different laws or want to live a different lifestyle. But wouldn't that maybe be worth it for no more wars and world peace?
Your opinion only matters when you have a choice. If you only have one government, you have no choice and your opinion doesn't matter.
kylejack
10-27-2007, 12:04 AM
A nation is an attempt to hold together people who are roughly similar against all others. Attempting to unite the whole world is a pipe dream. There's too many different traditions, too many different customs. What would we say if people in our country were getting married at 14? But that's happening out in the world. Babies play with snakes in some countries.
I am really sad for Gravel. He is a good guy and if there were no Ron Paul, I'd actually support him. He is not a member of the elite. Is he right on everything? Of course not. Certainly not the world government. But I feel that the guy is honest, assuming his rhetoric and his law making past are in sinc. Too bad that he is so irrelevant.
I was at this rally also. I'd say there were a couple hundred people tops. There was a lot of ads for this rally - in the Michigan Daily, around campus for days before. The Ron Paul rally was almost entirely word of mouth. I expected a lot more people, although it was noon on a friday and it was raining a little. His speech was sort of disappointing - very short, he seemed scattered and almost left without really talking about the War on Drugs (which was the reason he was supposed to speak). He was in a hurry and left quickly for another meeting on campus, but I managed to catch up with him, shake his hand and get a picture:
http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v143/122/69/2256929/n2256929_39297216_1648.jpg
I told him "I got to hear my 2 favorite presidential candidates speak, shake their hand and get a picture with them." He said, "Who's the other candidate?" "Ron Paul, he spoke here two weeks ago." "Oh yes, Ron Paul - he'd make a good vice president!" (for Mike's presidency)
So I wouldn't be surprised if he did back Ron Paul later on.
NinjaPirate
10-27-2007, 03:06 AM
i saw this youtube video and for the life of me i cannot find it now.
it was gravel being interviewed by some young kid and he was promoting world government and saying that the u s just wasn't ready for it yet........
i thought that was interesting.
anyone here see that?
FOUND IT!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lu-OAu9hi2c
He wants to take what our founding fathers fought for (We, the People) and expand it globally. He's right though, the world isn't ready for that.
Corydoras
10-27-2007, 03:33 AM
Ok, yes civil wars can happen. But how many have we had in 300 years? Only one.
You ARE kidding, aren't you?
:(
Besides Yugoslavia, let's see... to name just a few just in this century off the top of my head... Northern Ireland, Kashmir, Sri Lanka, Cyprus, Eritrea, Rhodesia... you do realize, I hope, that anywhere there is an armed independence movement, that IS a civil war.
centure7
10-27-2007, 03:41 AM
Ron Paul WINS NO CONTEST!
Mike Gravel Spoke at the University of Michigan in the same spot Ron Paul did a couple of weeks ago. The difference was massive. We had nearly 2,500 people there whereas I'd say Gravel would have been lucky to break 250. The crowd roared for Ron Paul as he delivered a nearly 45 min speech, whereas the response was very subdued for Gravel's 20 or so min affair. The difference in energy cannot be described in words. We had the DIAG at U of M rockin' the whole night whereas Gravel barely made a splash. It will be interesting to see how this is reported in the Michigan Daily. We had a very questionable article emphasizing Pell grants, affirmative action, and the couple extreme supporters in the crowd. You also didn't get the sense of how massive the event was; attendance was not mentioned at all. We had several of our people there hold Ron Paul signs, ironically they didn't publish anything from any of our people in their article on Paul's speech, but they interviewed our other chairman at Gravel's speech.
I'm sick of people drawing undue comparison's between Gravel and Paul, their candidacies are on completely different levels.
Are their views closely enough aligned that Paul could invite Gravel to be Vice President?
vegetarianrpfan
10-27-2007, 05:41 AM
Are their views closely enough aligned that Paul could invite Gravel to be Vice President?
I really don't think so. A major part of Dr. Paul's platform is his economic policy, and Gravel is far to the left on that count. On civil liberties, they are close to each other, though.
inibo
10-27-2007, 07:08 AM
Answer me this people: What's bad about a one world government?
If there was only 1 government, wouldn't there be an end to all wars, since there would be no countries to fight with each other?
Seems like a good idea to me.
I can see the downside is that it would be only one ruler in the entire world ruling over everyone, and no one would have a choice to go somewhere else if they want different laws or want to live a different lifestyle. But wouldn't that maybe be worth it for no more wars and world peace?
A centralized government is antithetical to liberty. A government with the power to do good on a grand scale also so has the power to do evil on a grand scale.
Adamsa
10-27-2007, 07:12 AM
The world will never be ready for one government.
inibo
10-27-2007, 07:17 AM
You ARE kidding, aren't you?
:(
Besides Yugoslavia, let's see... to name just a few just in this century off the top of my head... Northern Ireland, Kashmir, Sri Lanka, Cyprus, Eritrea, Rhodesia... you do realize, I hope, that anywhere there is an armed independence movement, that IS a civil war.
I think you misunderstand the definition of civil war.
A civil war is two or more factions vying for control of one government. Examples of civil war would be Lebanon in the 1970s and 80s or Liberia in the 1980s and 90s. The examples you site, with the exception of Rhodesia and possibly Cyprus, are not civil wars, they are wars of independence/secession. A war of independence/secession is not a civil war.
sunny
10-31-2007, 08:36 PM
He says he wants a world government. It was on youtube but has been taken down. he's honest but so wrong here.
thanks!
If Gravel respects Paul, he won't endorse him: Paul is trying to come off as a very conservative candidate, and having a Democrat's endorsement will make Paul appear anything but that. :P
Nathan Hale
10-31-2007, 08:56 PM
?
He was instrumental in ending the draft and the War.
And as such he would have been a great candidate in 1976. Unfortunately it's now 2007, and he's done.
mavtek
10-31-2007, 09:02 PM
If Gravel respects Paul, he won't endorse him: Paul is trying to come off as a very conservative candidate, and having a Democrat's endorsement will make Paul appear anything but that. :P
Honestly I'd like to see Gravel endorse him in New Hampshire. Gravel has a huge following there, and GrannyD supports Gravel. GrannyD got 224,000 votes in the senate race there.
Avalon
10-31-2007, 09:14 PM
If Gravel respects Paul, he won't endorse him: Paul is trying to come off as a very conservative candidate, and having a Democrat's endorsement will make Paul appear anything but that. :P
We should want Gravel to endorse him after the nomination. At that point, most conservatives will back him over Hillary regardless of his democratic endorsements (or really anything else) and it won't lose us any of the warhawks who would prefer Hillary anyway. But such an endorsement will win him points from democrats who seem to accept Gravel as one of them ("He endorses the republican over Hillary!?!?"). A Kucinich endorsement after the nomination would be even better.
Whenever people talk about Gravel I can't help but think of the rock videohttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3263318624897204673&q=Mike+Gravel&total=1363&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
If the human race and technology advance enough I would be that there will be a one world government. I don't think it will happen for a long time, but as nations become more and more similar you will see it happen. The advances of technology make the world a much smaller place and language will not be a barrier in a hundred years or so. I think it is inevitable if technology keeps advancing the way it has been (which is exponential, not linear)
Not saying this is a good or bad thing, I don't really know, but I do think it will happen. Just my opinion though, and it doesn't matter much : )
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