Why are people celebrating? This was a failure!

[Matt Collins]

Why are people celebrating? This is a miserable failure which shows the typical ineptitude of government.


The US government spent trillions of dollars, took 10 years, and shed thousands of lives to kill 1 man? This is of course assuming the government's claim of OBL's death is indeed true (skepticism of government is required for freedom to exist).

WAS IT WORTH IT?

In the process of this debacle the US government created even more worldwide animosity against the American people which may actually lead to many "Osama Bin Laden" copycats that will seek to avenge atrocities perpetrated by our government against them and their people. It's a concept called "blowback" which means there are consequences to our government's out-of-control policies. In fact OBL's actions against the US was itself "blowback" from our government's actions overseas. If you have never read OBL's writings on WHY he attacked the US, you should, it is very enlightening and allows one to understand what motivation existed for the attacks. After 10 years of illegal and unconstitutional action around the world including collateral damage of civilian life, occupation of foreign lands, propping up dictators, and funding local thugs, expect acts of terrorism against the US to increase, not decrease, as a result.

Osama Bin Laden, who many understand to have been an asset of the US government at one point, could've been captured with a much smaller force (similar to the one that allegedly killed him this time), much sooner, with less collateral damage, and for a lot less money. In 2001 the idea of issuing Letters of Marque and Reprisal was submitted into Congress as provided in the Constitution, but was promptly rejected. If this course of action had been followed the would literally would be a much better place today. Here is the bill: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h107-3076


Now that OBL is allegedly dead, does this mean we get our liberties back, our money back, and the thousands of lives that have been lost? Probably not.

Again, this is NOT a time for celebration. It's a time to recognize the nearly utter failure of government at anything it sets out to accomplish.

[Anti Federalist]

Why are people celebrating?

'Merica, Collins, WTF is the matter with you?

[James Madison]

Why are people celebrating?

'Merica, Collins, WTF is the matter with you?

He must be one of them Al-qaeda types.

America! Fuck yeah!!!!!

[BrendenR]

I don't understand why normally smart and deep thinkers on this forum cast aside their reason to make exclamations like this.

It has never been claimed that the war in Afghanistan was to kill Bin Laden. It was to destroy the terrorist network. Once that was accomplished, they turned into into a nation building exercise, and everyone accepts that is what we are doing. We are policing the state of Afghanistan.

Iraq was also not initiated to kill Osama. All of this is plainly obvious.

I'm not supporting these wars, I'm stating that we know the real reasons we are there, and only one of many was "to kill Bin Laden".

Honestly, this post sickens me as much as the Nationalism I'm seeing, because its so full of shit.

[The Dark Knight]

The American people are happy a murderer is dead. I was talking to a friend last night and told her Bin Laden had been killed. she responded by saying "oh is that the guy in Iraq?" Most Americans are not educated about the middle east and react out of emotion

[South Park Fan]

I don't understand why normally smart and deep thinkers on this forum cast aside their reason to make exclamations like this.

It has never been claimed that the war in Afghanistan was to kill Bin Laden. It was to destroy the terrorist network. Once that was accomplished, they turned into into a nation building exercise, and everyone accepts that is what we are doing. We are policing the state of Afghanistan.

Iraq was also not initiated to kill Osama. All of this is plainly obvious.

I'm not supporting these wars, I'm stating that we know the real reasons we are there, and none of them were, or are "to kill Bin Laden".

Honestly, this post sickens me as much as the Nationalism I'm seeing, because its so full of shit.


The initial military objectives of OEF-A, as articulated by Former President George W. Bush in his Sept. 20th Address to a Joint Session of Congress and his Oct. 7th address to the country, included the destruction of terrorist training camps and infrastructure within Afghanistan, the capture of al-Qaeda leaders, and the cessation of terrorist activities in Afghanistan."[9][10][11]

What do you have to say about the second objective?

[pcosmar]

I don't understand why normally smart and deep thinkers on this forum cast aside their reason to make exclamations like this.

It has never been claimed that the war in Afghanistan was to kill Bin Laden. It was to destroy the terrorist network. Once that was accomplished, they turned into into a nation building exercise, and everyone accepts that is what we are doing. We are policing the state of Afghanistan.

Iraq was also not initiated to kill Osama. All of this is plainly obvious.

I'm not supporting these wars, I'm stating that we know the real reasons we are there, and none of them were, or are "to kill Bin Laden".

Honestly, this post sickens me as much as the Nationalism I'm seeing, because its so full of shit.

Terrorist network? (Define please)
You might want to rethink your statement.

terrorism is a tactic.
Not a group or organization. Not a "State".
A tactic. One used excessively by the US and others around the world. (gun boat diplomacy)
A tactic commonly used within the US by Police and other governmental agencies.
A Tactic.

Give that some "deep thought".

[BrendenR]

What do you have to say about the second objective?

You cannot say that because a single goal was accomplished, we can ignore all the other goals and claim that all the resources used were wasted on that single goal. It's simply logically inconsistent.

The trillions of dollars that was spent, all the men and women who died, their objective was not to catch Bin Laden. That was the objective of a relatively small group. The trillions and the thousands dead went to other purposes.

To ignore that is intellectually dishonest, whether or not you agree those purposes were right/wrong or upside down.

*edit* you're right that I said "none of them were" an that was incorrect.

[BrendenR]

Terrorist network? (Define please)
You might want to rethink your statement.

terrorism is a tactic.
Not a group or organization. Not a "State".
A tactic. One used excessively by the US and others around the world. (gun boat diplomacy)
A tactic commonly used within the US by Police and other governmental agencies.
A Tactic.

Give that some "deep thought".

I'm simply pointing out the intellectual dishonesty of saying that trillions of dollars and thousands of people died to kill Bin Laden.

I don't give a shit about what the hell it was actually used for, it wasn't solely "to kill Bin Laden".

[JohnGalt1225]

Whatever we initially went into Afghanistan for, we're done there. It's time to come home. We never should have put a boot on the ground in Iraq, the time to come from Iraq started as soon as the war began.

The "war" on terror is about as successful as our government's other "wars" like the "war" on poverty and the "war" on drugs. Both of which need to be ended right along with our "war" on terror.

[BrendenR]

Whatever we initially went into Afghanistan for, we're done there. It's time to come home. We never should have put a boot on the ground in Iraq, the time to come from Iraq started as soon as the war began.

The "war" on terror is about as successful as our government's other "wars" like the "war" on poverty and the "war" on drugs. Both of which need to be ended right along with our "war" on terror.

This ^.

[fisharmor]

You cannot say that because a single goal was accomplished, we can ignore all the other goals and claim that all the resources used were wasted. It's simply logically inconsistent.

The trillions of dollars that was spent, all the men and women who died, their objective was not to catch Bin Laden. That was the objective of a relatively small group. The trillions and the thousands dead went to other purposes.

To ignore that is intellectually dishonest, whether or not you agree those purposes were right/wrong or upside down.

So, what do you contend all that money and those lives were spent on?
OBL declared an objective, and met it.
We never declared an objective, making victory impossible for us.
Therefore, he won.
We failed.
Woo-hoo! Party!

[BrendenR]

So, what do you contend all that money and those lives were spent on?

Fighting the Taliban. Policing Afghanistan. Getting in the middle of Civil Wars in other counties. How is this not obvious?

Again, I'm not saying we succeeded at anything.

[civusamericanus]

Why are people celebrating? This is a miserable failure which shows the typical ineptitude of government.


The US government spent trillions of dollars, took 10 years, and shed thousands of lives to kill 1 man? This is of course assuming the government's claim of OBL's death is indeed true (skepticism of government is required for freedom to exist).

WAS IT WORTH IT?

In the process of this debacle the US government created even more worldwide animosity against the American people which may actually lead to many "Osama Bin Laden" copycats that will seek to avenge atrocities perpetrated by our government against them and their people. It's a concept called "blowback" which means there are consequences to our government's out-of-control policies. In fact OBL's actions against the US was itself "blowback" from our government's actions overseas. If you have never read OBL's writings on WHY he attacked the US, you should, it is very enlightening and allows one to understand what motivation existed for the attacks. After 10 years of illegal and unconstitutional action around the world including collateral damage of civilian life, occupation of foreign lands, propping up dictators, and funding local thugs, expect acts of terrorism against the US to increase, not decrease, as a result.

Osama Bin Laden, who many understand to have been an asset of the US government at one point, could've been captured with a much smaller force (similar to the one that allegedly killed him this time), much sooner, with less collateral damage, and for a lot less money. In 2001 the idea of issuing Letters of Marque and Reprisal was submitted into Congress as provided in the Constitution, but was promptly rejected. If this course of action had been followed the would literally would be a much better place today. Here is the bill: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h107-3076


Now that OBL is allegedly dead, does this mean we get our liberties back, our money back, and the thousands of lives that have been lost? Probably not.

Again, this is NOT a time for celebration. It's a time to recognize the nearly utter failure of government at anything it sets out to accomplish.
^^ +1 I really like what you wrote, it's clear and concise! I may borrow this and source you, thanks!

My dad who is a recent Pro-Liberty convert, said he didn't understand with all of the US technoclogical advances and weaponry, they turned this into a bloodbath, he said why didn't they just use some knockout gas on 22 people they had been watching since sept 2010???

[pcosmar]

I'm simply pointing out the intellectual dishonesty of saying that trillions of dollars and thousands of people died to kill Bin Laden.

I don't give a shit about what the hell it was actually used for, it wasn't solely "to kill Bin Laden".

and I am just pointing out that using the term "terrorist network" is intellectually devoid.
Going after Osama was the excuse given.
It was a lie. and the lies continue. and they will continue.

[heavenlyboy34]

and I am just pointing out that using the term "terrorist network" is intellectually devoid.
Going after Osama was the excuse given.
It was a lie. and the lies continue. and they will continue.

+a zillion. IOU a few +reps. :cool:

[cindy25]

it showed how stupid the sheep are; Trump should be celebrating, they will fall for his rhetoric like lambs going to slaughter.

[jmdrake]

I'm simply pointing out the intellectual dishonesty of saying that trillions of dollars and thousands of people died to kill Bin Laden.

I don't give a shit about what the hell it was actually used for, it wasn't solely "to kill Bin Laden".

Supposedly Bush initially gave the Taliban 24 hours to "hand Bin Laden over". So yes. Trillions of dollars and thousands of people did die to "kill Bin Laden".

And just in case you forgot:

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/archives/article_c4c940d1-e7c9-5f00-acd4-0e0ce185aef3.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

[QueenB4Liberty]

and I am just pointing out that using the term "terrorist network" is intellectually devoid.
Going after Osama was the excuse given.
It was a lie. and the lies continue. and they will continue.

Yeah, right on as usual.

[SimpleName]

This is pretty much how I feel. I think Osama's death is a relief to all the soldiers who put their lives on the line. Finally a real reason to feel like all your work wasn't completely wasted. BUT, we spent trillions of dollars to get a few guys. Now what? Economic calamity and an enormous death toll for a few Muslims crawling around the other side of the world? And now we are in danger for ANOTHER terrorist attack! What if another 2,000 people (Americans, mind you) have to die so we could take out this one jerkoff? 3,000 in 9/11, 5,000 in the "war on terror", and now we might have to add the possibility of thousands more deaths. And these dummies celebrate their country...UGH!

That scene last night reminded me of Lisa Ling's National Geographic documentary on North Korea. She tagged along with some international doctor who was performing thousands of cataract surgeries. After the surgeries were successful, instead of seeing the awful situation that their "dear leader" had plagued them with and the great deed the doctor did, they ignored the doc altogether and prayed to a picture of Kim Jong Il. Why are we celebrating a minor success in the sea of failure? Why are we praising the very people who led us to an array of death, waste, and destruction. Seeing this sort of nationalistic not only scares the hell out of me, but it also makes me want to give up on these people.

[Matt Collins]

That scene last night reminded me of Lisa Ling's National Geographic documentary on North Korea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhXt4BjLL0g

[Matt Collins]

Hey, what do ya know! Ron recites my talking points right out of the gate ha ha ha:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbwd2OPq4x8