Tired of the Osama bin Laden paranoia

[SamuraisWisdom]

This is a rant against the insanity on this forum right now. Most of the threads on the front page are questioning the "official story" about Osama bin Laden being killed. Well I, for one, don't believe that the US government could/would lie about such a thing. There seems to be two schools of thought here.

1. That Bin Laden was killed years ago and his death is only now being reported. The reasoning behind this is because people think the government wanted us to believe he was still alive to justify being in the Middle East.

Ok, I can see the reason why people would think such a thing. It has been 10 years since 9/11 and it is seemingly impossible that a handicapped old man would be able to elude the US military for so long. However, if that was indeed the case, they why report his death now? What would the government have to gain from finally revealing his death? Certainly, the only thing this is going to accomplish politically is stir up debate about whether or not we should keep troops over there any longer. It is true that some people are trying to spin this event to justify staying in Afghanistan to mop up, but those voices will soon fade away.

2. Osama is still alive and the recent photographs were faked.

This one holds no water at all. The US government would never lie about something this monumental only to have Bin Laden release a new video tape several months from now revealing the fact that he's still alive. Government officials may not always be doing what's best for the people, but they aren't stupid.

I can understand people being skeptical whenever government is involved, and that's healthy. But it seems people here are being cynical to the point that they'll only believe their own version of the story. I want to be involved with this community so badly, but every time a major news story comes out I come onto this board and only see the worst possible scenario of a huge lie/cover up which is so detached from reality that it makes me reluctant to associate myself with this board.

/rant

On a side note, here's to hoping Ron Paul has a good performance at the debate on Thursday

[Freedom 4 all]

It's to justify the coming invasion of Pakistan for "harboring" him.

[MelissaWV]

Strangely, many people not on the forums are also questioning...

1. His rapid burial at sea.
2. The claim that this burial was done in accordance with Muslim law (without citing any law).
3. The supposed DNA match that was done so quickly between Bin Laden and a relative, which is not exactly proof positive the guy was Bin Laden.
4. The changing body count.
5. The release of reaction photos of Obama and others, but not the release of the raid video itself, which could have been blurred or otherwise changed to not show the execution.
6. The large volume of children's things at the "compound," and why there seem to be no reports as to what happened to the women and children the raiding SEALs found when they first entered.
7. The lack of any dialysis machine, and the non-confirmation of what all those "medicines" were on the shelf.
8. The original report released that Bin Laden was dead a week ago.
9. The sick twisted mind that would want to stage this the night of the Correspondents' Dinner so that he could have as much glory as possible (supposedly, weather delays made that plan fall through).

[Sola_Fide]

Strangely, many people not on the forums are also questioning...

1. His rapid burial at sea.
2. The claim that this burial was done in accordance with Muslim law (without citing any law).
3. The supposed DNA match that was done so quickly between Bin Laden and a relative, which is not exactly proof positive the guy was Bin Laden.
4. The changing body count.
5. The release of reaction photos of Obama and others, but not the release of the raid video itself, which could have been blurred or otherwise changed to not show the execution.
6. The large volume of children's things at the "compound," and why there seem to be no reports as to what happened to the women and children the raiding SEALs found when they first entered.
7. The lack of any dialysis machine, and the non-confirmation of what all those "medicines" were on the shelf.
8. The original report released that Bin Laden was dead a week ago.
9. The sick twisted mind that would want to stage this the night of the Correspondents' Dinner so that he could have as much glory as possible (supposedly, weather delays made that plan fall through).

Good list.

[low preference guy]

9. The sick twisted mind that would want to stage this the night of the Correspondents' Dinner so that he could have as much glory as possible (supposedly, weather delays made that plan fall through).

he didn't decide the which night. lol. when you are after bin laden, you attack him when you can, otherwise he might escape, prepare himself, get tips that he is going to be attacked, etc.

also, they had a strong suspicion that bin laden was there, but they weren't sure.

[raiha]

I don't mind the 'paranoia' but I'm fed up with the hype. Worse than the royal wedding.

[MelissaWV]

(AGI) London - The operation to kill Osama bin Laden was originally scheduled for Saturday, April 30, but bad weather forced the CIA to delay until Sunday, the Times reports. The attack had been decided on two months ago and U.S. Navy SEALS rehearsed twice, on April 7 and 13. "The raid with helicopters was considered much more risky," a U.S. administration sources said, "but (Obama) wanted proof," that Bin Laden was dead.

You're right. He had nothing to do with it. :rolleyes: And it was just a coincidence, honest, the date and all.

[Teaser Rate]

I got a personal record of -6 rep today because I didn't jump to the conclusion that the government faked the assassination for some unknown motive, so I can definitely relate to the OP's sentiment.

If I were a random person who had stumbled on the forum and found that 73% of people didn't believe we had killed Bin Laden, I'd probably dismiss Ron Paul and his supporters as kooks who should be ignored.

Edit: I'm probably going to beat the -6 with that last statement, but I believe that poll makes the entire board look really bad and should probably be moved to a closed forum.

[low preference guy]

I got a personal record of -6 rep today because I didn't jump to the conclusion that the government faked the assassination for some unknown motive, so I can definitely relate to the OP's sentiment.

If I were a random person who had stumbled on the forum and found that 73% of people didn't believe we had killed Bin Laden, I'd probably dismiss Ron Paul and his supporters as kooks who should be ignored.

my -rep was not because of that, considering that i don't buy into that nonsense. also, the conspiracy types are more likely to participate in those polls, so the result cannot extrapolated to the whole forum.

[MelissaWV]

I got a personal record of -6 rep today because I didn't jump to the conclusion that the government faked the assassination for some unknown motive, so I can definitely relate to the OP's sentiment.

If I were a random person who had stumbled on the forum and found that 73% of people didn't believe we had killed Bin Laden, I'd probably dismiss Ron Paul and his supporters as kooks who should be ignored.

Then you must really be avoiding the internet at large, and people in your daily life. Most people I run into are wondering why the US would suddenly care about whether or not Bin Laden was wrapped in white before being summarily plopped off an aircraft carrier.

I don't think the assassination was faked, but I do know that the USA has been talking a huge game for months about how it won't go into Libya and assassinate its leader because we don't do assassinations. All of the points in my earlier post are the kinds of things that lead to questions.

If you can't question your Government, or just don't want to, then perhaps another place really is better.

[anaconda]

This is a rant against the insanity on this forum right now.

I would say that the sanity on the Forum has been uncommonly great for the past 24 hours.

[CuseRonPaul]

If I were a random person who had stumbled on the forum and found that 73% of people didn't believe we had killed Bin Laden, I'd probably dismiss Ron Paul and his supporters as kooks who should be ignored.


I disagree, I know even ardent Obama supporters who are scratching their heads at this story.

[anaconda]

Bin Laden was never tried for the 1990's crimes he was indicted for. So, is it safe to say that we did, in fact, "assassinate" him? Is this what this may all be about?...to warm the sheeple up to routine assassinations??

[jmdrake]

Strangely, many people not on the forums are also questioning...

1. His rapid burial at sea.
2. The claim that this burial was done in accordance with Muslim law (without citing any law).
3. The supposed DNA match that was done so quickly between Bin Laden and a relative, which is not exactly proof positive the guy was Bin Laden.
4. The changing body count.
5. The release of reaction photos of Obama and others, but not the release of the raid video itself, which could have been blurred or otherwise changed to not show the execution.
6. The large volume of children's things at the "compound," and why there seem to be no reports as to what happened to the women and children the raiding SEALs found when they first entered.
7. The lack of any dialysis machine, and the non-confirmation of what all those "medicines" were on the shelf.
8. The original report released that Bin Laden was dead a week ago.
9. The sick twisted mind that would want to stage this the night of the Correspondents' Dinner so that he could have as much glory as possible (supposedly, weather delays made that plan fall through).

Good analysis. This whole "We dumped him at see because of Islamic law" thing seems to be blowing up in the administration's face.

[Sola_Fide]

This is a rant against the insanity on this forum right now. Most of the threads on the front page are questioning the "official story" about Osama bin Laden being killed. Well I, for one, don't believe that the US government could/would lie about such a thing. There seems to be two schools of thought here.

1. That Bin Laden was killed years ago and his death is only now being reported. The reasoning behind this is because people think the government wanted us to believe he was still alive to justify being in the Middle East.

Ok, I can see the reason why people would think such a thing. It has been 10 years since 9/11 and it is seemingly impossible that a handicapped old man would be able to elude the US military for so long. However, if that was indeed the case, they why report his death now? What would the government have to gain from finally revealing his death? Certainly, the only thing this is going to accomplish politically is stir up debate about whether or not we should keep troops over there any longer. It is true that some people are trying to spin this event to justify staying in Afghanistan to mop up, but those voices will soon fade away.

2. Osama is still alive and the recent photographs were faked.

This one holds no water at all. The US government would never lie about something this monumental only to have Bin Laden release a new video tape several months from now revealing the fact that he's still alive. Government officials may not always be doing what's best for the people, but they aren't stupid.

I can understand people being skeptical whenever government is involved, and that's healthy. But it seems people here are being cynical to the point that they'll only believe their own version of the story. I want to be involved with this community so badly, but every time a major news story comes out I come onto this board and only see the worst possible scenario of a huge lie/cover up which is so detached from reality that it makes me reluctant to associate myself with this board.

/rant

On a side note, here's to hoping Ron Paul has a good performance at the debate on Thursday

I don't know man. I have no reason to trust this government. Not only does it lie, the whole government itself is a lie. They lie just by operating this tyranny. So, I will comfortably remain skeptical.

[anaconda]

I disagree, I know even ardent Obama supporters who are scratching their heads at this story.

I noticed that at least half of the yahoo reader comments on yesterdays AP official story were all calling "bullshit." I was pleasantly surprised, to say the least. I really think this is going to back fire on Soetoro. Contrary to Soetoro "ordering" the "mission" I would venture the guess that he had absolutely no say in the matter. The puppet in chief would not get to make this call. He was simply given his lines in the script.

[low preference guy]

I really think this is going to back fire on Soetoro

i think it won't backfire. how much do you want to bet?

[pcosmar]

I'm probably going to beat the -6 with that last statement, but I believe that poll makes the entire board look really bad and should probably be moved to a closed forum.

Out of ammo, or I would.

There is no logical or sane reason to give the Government story the slightest credibility.

[PaulConventionWV]

Then you must really be avoiding the internet at large, and people in your daily life. Most people I run into are wondering why the US would suddenly care about whether or not Bin Laden was wrapped in white before being summarily plopped off an aircraft carrier.

I don't think the assassination was faked, but I do know that the USA has been talking a huge game for months about how it won't go into Libya and assassinate its leader because we don't do assassinations. All of the points in my earlier post are the kinds of things that lead to questions.

If you can't question your Government, or just don't want to, then perhaps another place really is better.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, Melissa. The story does seem very questionable, and even I didn't jump to the conclusion that it was a conspiracy because I didn't really see the motive. However, it seems like it probably served the purpose of raising Obama's ratings ans helping him get re-elected. I don't expect you all to believe this, but I really think the whining should be kept to a minimum until we hear how Ron handles it. Even then, whining is not encouraged (and I'm not accusing you of whining, Melissa).

[jmdrake]

i think it won't backfire. how much do you want to bet?

Now that I will agree with you on. But only because I have no faith in the American people to trust their senses and their common sense and demand real proof.

[Cowlesy]

I think the OP notices that those who automatically arrive at the conclusion the whole thing is concocted are extremely fast to land on anyone who disagrees with them with both feet. It's like "How can you not possibly believe this is all a grand scheme? Look, here is a Fox News archived story of some hearsay from some Taliban guy in 2001 saying "no no we buried him he's dead k thx bye" --- you don't believe that??"

I am disappointed at how fast everyone is drawing conclusions, given it hasn't even been 24 hours, and then assailing each other.

[MelissaWV]

I think the OP notices that those who automatically arrive at the conclusion the whole thing is concocted are extremely fast to land on anyone who disagrees with them with both feet. It's like "How can you not possibly believe this is all a grand scheme? Look, here is a Fox News archived story of some hearsay from some Taliban guy in 2001 saying "no no we buried him he's dead k thx bye" --- you don't believe that??"

I am disappointed at how fast everyone is drawing conclusions, given it hasn't even been 24 hours, and then assailing each other.

Nah, I just find it questionable. I think that's the best word at this time. DNA's been tested, body's been prepared and buried at sea, obligatory silly Photoshopped photos are around on the internet, and morons from both sides are on television. I could have easily said "umbrella, boat, banana, slug." Eventually, those things might add up to something, or nothing, or we might lose interest as a nation. But for now, it's all pretty strange stuff.

I agree that the debate should be civil and include facts, and caution.

[jmdrake]

I wholeheartedly agree with this, Melissa. The story does seem very questionable, and even I didn't jump to the conclusion that it was a conspiracy because I didn't really see the motive. However, it seems like it probably served the purpose of raising Obama's ratings ans helping him get re-elected. I don't expect you all to believe this, but I really think the whining should be kept to a minimum until we hear how Ron handles it. Even then, whining is not encouraged (and I'm not accusing you of whining, Melissa).

FTR "Whining" isn't saying "Something smells fishy about this". Whining equals all of the "Ron Paul is going to be ruined by this / Obama will win re-election because of this" threads.

[jmdrake]

I think the OP notices that those who automatically arrive at the conclusion the whole thing is concocted are extremely fast to land on anyone who disagrees with them with both feet. It's like "How can you not possibly believe this is all a grand scheme? Look, here is a Fox News archived story of some hearsay from some Taliban guy in 2001 saying "no no we buried him he's dead k thx bye" --- you don't believe that??"

I am disappointed at how fast everyone is drawing conclusions, given it hasn't even been 24 hours, and then assailing each other.

Well I've noticed all of the people who are landing on others with both feet and screaming "conspiracy kook" whenever someone points out that this "We buried him at sea to appease Islam" and "We can't release any pictures because they'd be too gruesome" cover stories make....no....sense. It's the fact that the administration story is so freaking screwy that has people raising question, not the "hearsay" from the Taliban.

[KramerDSP]

Nobody seems to be replying to the comment I posted on another thread that I found from an article.

http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2011/05/sorry-but-i-dont-believe-this.html

A comment below that article suggests:


Folks the military mission was never about OBL but was about killing Mullah Omar the ONE EYED ex Taliban Leader. He was shot in the eye to remove this evidence and then dumped in the sea---Mission accomplished. Now mullah Omar was not demonized enough in west to give Mr Obama the much need political life line for his second term. By switching the target name to OBL gives Obama the political push plus also brings closure to OBL story which was known amongst intelligence circles for years that OBL is dead.

I'm just thinking aloud here, but doesn't this explanation fit in many ways? If Bin Laden truly died of kidney problems or at Tora Bora back in 2001 (or in 2005 with the Bhutto claim), and the high profile target was actually Mullah Omar, who is also close to 6'4", wouldn't a bait and switch explain perfectly the official story we heard from the media in the last 24 hours? We've already been told OBL was shot in the eye.

[jmdrake]

Nobody seems to be replying to the comment I posted on another thread that I found from an article.

http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2011/05/sorry-but-i-dont-believe-this.html

A comment below that article suggests:



I'm just thinking aloud here, but doesn't this explanation fit in many ways? If Bin Laden truly died of kidney problems or at Tora Bora back in 2001 (or in 2005 with the Bhutto claim), and the high profile target was actually Mullah Omar, who is also close to 6'4", wouldn't a bait and switch explain perfectly the official story we heard from the media in the last 24 hours? We've already been told OBL was shot in the eye.

Interesting. But Mullah Omar's right eye was missing. OBL was supposedly shot in (or over by some accounts) the left eye.

OBL
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382645/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-How-Navy-Seals-killed-Al-Qaeda-chief-near-Islamabad.html
http://www.1310news.com/news/world/article/220808--us-official-bin-laden-shot-over-left-eye-part-of-skull-blown-away

Mullah Omar
http://www.nctc.gov/site/profiles/mullah_omar.html

If they're using this as a cover story, why get the eye wrong?

[KramerDSP]

Interesting. But Mullah Omar's right eye was missing. OBL was supposedly shot in (or over by some accounts) the left eye.

OBL
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382645/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-How-Navy-Seals-killed-Al-Qaeda-chief-near-Islamabad.html
http://www.1310news.com/news/world/article/220808--us-official-bin-laden-shot-over-left-eye-part-of-skull-blown-away

Mullah Omar
http://www.nctc.gov/site/profiles/mullah_omar.html

If they're using this as a cover story, why get the eye wrong?

That's what I was looking for. Someone to debunk it. Thanks! One thing is for sure. SOMETHING does not pass the smell test.

[anaconda]

i think it won't backfire. how much do you want to bet?

Bragging rights?:D

[anaconda]

Nobody seems to be replying to the comment I posted on another thread that I found from an article.

http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2011/05/sorry-but-i-dont-believe-this.html

A comment below that article suggests:



I'm just thinking aloud here, but doesn't this explanation fit in many ways? If Bin Laden truly died of kidney problems or at Tora Bora back in 2001 (or in 2005 with the Bhutto claim), and the high profile target was actually Mullah Omar, who is also close to 6'4", wouldn't a bait and switch explain perfectly the official story we heard from the media in the last 24 hours? We've already been told OBL was shot in the eye.

Sounds very plausible. And more believable than anything I've heard so far.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

The Government routinely lies. I have no reason to trust anything they say. They could be, or couldn't be telling the truth, but with their past record, I'm not going to believe a word out of the propagandists mouth.

[KramerDSP]

Here's a great blog that has the timeline for Osama Bin Laden, US Leaders statements, Bhutto, Daniel Pearl, and Omar Sheikh.

The suggestion is Bin Laden died at Tora Bora, possibly at the hands of Omar Sheikh (??) who is in prison for the murder of Daniel Pearl, who was investigating the connections between the ISI and Al Queada.

http://littlecountrylost.blogspot.com/2008/01/benazir-bhutto-omar-shiekh-murdered.html

[KramerDSP]

DU: Omar Sheik killed Osama Bin Laden

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2541841

[jmdrake]

Interesting. But Mullah Omar's right eye was missing. OBL was supposedly shot in (or over by some accounts) the left eye.

OBL
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382645/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-How-Navy-Seals-killed-Al-Qaeda-chief-near-Islamabad.html
http://www.1310news.com/news/world/article/220808--us-official-bin-laden-shot-over-left-eye-part-of-skull-blown-away

Mullah Omar
http://www.nctc.gov/site/profiles/mullah_omar.html

If they're using this as a cover story, why get the eye wrong?


That's what I was looking for. Someone to debunk it. Thanks! One thing is for sure. SOMETHING does not pass the smell test.

It looks like you might have been right afterall. The latest OBL photo has the shot over the right eye and the right eye missing. :o :eek:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?290633-Possible-Osama-photo

[FreedomProsperityPeace]

Personally, I try not to draw conclusions too soon. I keep an open mind and never trust anything we are told. As we have seen in the past 2 days, the "facts" aren't necessarily facts later on. Everything we thought we knew about OBL, al Qaeda, and Pakistan has been turned on its head.

[sirgonzo420]

Everyone in this thread needs to go watch "Wag the Dog".


This is theater.

[jmhudak17]

In reference to the Bhutto claim, please check this thread I made. I think I've been able to thoroughly debunk it: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?290671-I-looked-into-the-situation-around-Benazir-Bhutto-saying-that-Osama-was-murdered...