Vote on Ron Paul's belief about Osama's death

[Jeremy]

A poll about what you think before there is an official press release from Paul:

Will Ron Paul say he believes Osama was killed today or that he think Osama died a while ago and Obama is lying for votes?

[low preference guy]

it's so obvious there's no need for a poll

[Jeremy]

it's so obvious there's no need for a poll
A few members were pretty hostile towards me when I said that Osama died today. Will they be hostile towards Ron when he says the same thing? One person even said, "I can't believe you are a mod when you believe these government lies."

[low preference guy]

A few members were pretty hostile towards me when I said that Osama died today. Will they be hostile towards Ron when he says the same thing? One person even said, "I can't believe you are a mod when you believe these government lies."

are you a mod?

[specsaregood]

If you think Dr. Paul is going to say either option 1 or option 2 then you haven't been paying attention to the man.

[doodle]

Ron Paul was not there and likely know as much as most other people at this point.

I would think best approach would be to wait till fog of the Obama directed operation settles and all facts come out.

[Jeremy]

If you think Dr. Paul is going to say either option 1 or option 2 then you haven't been paying attention to the man.

Hm, Rand Paul said #1... I think Ron will too. You voted #3, but don't say people who think otherwise "aren't paying attention".

[nobody's_hero]

I don't think he will say anything quite so definite. It would be foolhardy of him to jump on the bandwagon now. "Ron Paul will let it be until things can be confirmed," is my vote. Or he will release something something very truthful but generic about our foreign policy needing serious change, leaving out OBL for the most part.

[Aldanga]

Trying to drive a wedge between the community is not productive.

[specsaregood]

Hm, Rand Paul said #1... I think Ron will too. You voted #3, but don't say people who think otherwise "aren't paying attention".

I'll say whatever I want; thank you very much.

[Jeremy]

I don't think he will say anything quite so definite. It would be foolhardy of him to jump on the bandwagon now. Ron "Paul will let it be until things can be confirmed," is my vote. Or he will release something something very truthful but generic about our foreign policy needing serious change, leaving out OBL for the most part.

I don't think there is much of a controversy outside of Ron Paul Forums. And Rand was definitive, so why not Ron?

[Jeremy]

I'll say whatever I want; thank you very much.

I guess I'm "not paying attention to Ron Paul" then?

[specsaregood]

Hm, Rand Paul said #1... I think Ron will too. You voted #3, but don't say people who think otherwise "aren't paying attention".

No, Rand did not say #1.
His statement was:


"I commend our troops, the intelligence community, and the military leaders involved in both the administrations of Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama for their perseverance and courage in pursuit of this most grievous enemy of the United States of America."

That is option 3.

[specsaregood]

I guess I'm "not paying attention to Ron Paul" then?

No, you haven't if you think he is going to declaratively state something as fact that he has no first hand knowledge of. He may comment on the governments claim and assume it to be true, but he won't say it like you put in option 1.

[nobody's_hero]

I don't think there is much of a controversy outside of Ron Paul Forums. And Rand was definitive, so why not Ron?

That's the thing. There are a LOT of people who believe Osama was killed in that raid. Ron Paul has nothing to lose by being ambiguous on the issue, whereas a lot of people are in a position of being duped if something leaks in the next 18 months.

Could you imagine if everyone bought into this and it turned out to be a lie?

Would they have more respect for the man who remained wary of government the whole while, or just started marching like a mouse when the piper played his fife?

[Jeremy]

No, you haven't if you think he is going to declaratively state something as fact that he has no first hand knowledge of. He may comment on the governments claim and assume it to be true, but he won't say it like you put in option 1.

Well I don't mean he's going to be like "yeah I was there and I saw the US kill Osama." But like Rand, he is going to mention/imply that the US killed Osama today.


That's the thing. There are a LOT of people who believe Osama was killed in that raid. Ron Paul has nothing to lose by being ambiguous on the issue, whereas a lot of people are in a position of being duped if something leaks in the next 18 months.

Could you imagine if everyone bought into this and it turned out to be a lie?

Would they have more respect for the man who remained wary of government the whole while, or just started marching like a mouse when the piper played his fife?
I wouldn't call it "marching like a mouse when the piper played his fife," but instead, misled like every other American would be in this scenario.

[doodle]

I don't think there is much of a controversy outside of Ron Paul Forums.

That's not the case actually. There is more controversy on this issue on other forums like hanity than here.
RP supporters are not the only people who have grown skeptical or even cynical when it comes to claims made by government officials.

[Wren]

I don't buy it because of their decision to hastily dump the body into the sea, but I assume RP will say he died on May 1st but I'm not expecting to see a smile on his face while saying it. After all the shit that's happened just for 1 man, I know RP will be disgusted and he should show that during the debates. What was it worth?

[Anti Federalist]

No, Rand did not say #1.

His statement was:


"I commend our troops, the intelligence community, and the military leaders involved in both the administrations of Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama for their perseverance and courage in pursuit of this most grievous enemy of the United States of America."

That is option 3.

That is essentially what Ron will say, I'd lay good money on that.

[specsaregood]

Well I don't mean he's going to be like "yeah I was there and I saw the US kill Osama." But like Rand, he is going to mention/imply that the US killed Osama today.

Then you should have worded your choices better.
Option 1 says, "Ron Paul will say Osama was killed by the US today "

So it seems you agree, option 3 is the correct choice?

[jmdrake]

No, Rand did not say #1.
His statement was:


That is option 3.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[Jeremy]

Then you should have worded your choices better.
Option 1 says, "Ron Paul will say Osama was killed by the US today "

So it seems you agree, option 3 is the correct choice?

No... because obviously Rand isn't questioning Obama on the death of Osama today. And I don't think Ron will either. That's my point.

But if he does, then I guess #2 wins.

[specsaregood]

No... because obviously Rand isn't questioning Obama on the death of Osama today. And I don't think Ron will either. That's my point.

Rand didn't even mention the death at all! He completely avoided it in his statement:


I commend our troops, the intelligence community, and the military leaders involved in both the administrations of Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama for their perseverance and courage in pursuit of this most grievous enemy of the United States of America."

He could have issued that statement amonth ago and it would be just as accurate and relevent.

[jmdrake]

A few members were pretty hostile towards me when I said that Osama died today. Will they be hostile towards Ron when he says the same thing? One person even said, "I can't believe you are a mod when you believe these government lies."

Funny, but I've felt the hostility from the opposite direction. Why don't we just agree to drop the hostility? You chose to give the administration the benefit of the doubt until it becomes absolutely impossible for you not to (I'm not sure where that point is) a I chose to be skeptical until they actually come out with some solid evidence. No biggie.

[Anti Federalist]

And while I am highly skeptical of the "official" story on this, fine, let's run with it.

Huzzah!!! UBL is dead!!!

Now, we can dismantle TSA, DHS, and I can throw my TWIC card overboard, and the wars can end, and the troops can come home, and we can fly at the airports without being sexually assaulted and...

Wait, what...?

We can't...OIC...NVM.

[Jeremy]

Rand didn't even mention the death at all!

Do you think Rand would deny that the US killed Osama today if you asked him right now?

[Jeremy]

Funny, but I've felt the hostility from the opposite direction. Why don't we just agree to drop the hostility? You chose to give the administration the benefit of the doubt until it becomes absolutely impossible for you not to (I'm not sure where that point is) a I chose to be skeptical until they actually come out with some solid evidence. No biggie.

Well I haven't been hostile and I can't speak for the people who agree with me and who were hostile.

[specsaregood]

Do you think Rand would deny that the US killed Osama today if you asked him right now?

Yes. I thought the current story was they killed him yesterday.

[jmdrake]

No... because obviously Rand isn't questioning Obama on the death of Osama today. And I don't think Ron will either. That's my point.

But if he does, then I guess #2 wins.

Not questioning the death of OBL is not the same thing as saying "I agree with the official version of what happened". Rand gave a smooth non committal answer. And I suspect if someone tries to pin Rand down he'll whatever he needs to in order to not totally destroy his political career. And that's what I would hope he would say. There's nothing to be gained by either of the Pauls going to the mat on this.

[jmdrake]

yes. I thought the current story was they killed him yesterday.

lol

[Jeremy]

Yes. I thought the current story was they killed him yesterday.

Depends on the time zone. ET, it was May 1st. Local time it was May 2nd.

[anaconda]

Ron Paul was not there and likely know as much as most other people at this point.

I would think best approach would be to wait till fog of the Obama directed operation settles and all facts come out.

Facts never seem to make a difference to Americans. Ever.

[specsaregood]

Depends on the time zone. ET, it was May 1st. Local time it was May 2nd.

Nope. Islamabad is +9hours ahead of EST. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=106
And according to this: http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/05/02/timeline-how-the-u-s-found-and-killed-osama-bin-laden/
He was killed between 2 and 2:40pm EST. Which means it would still be May 1st in Pakistan when he was killed.

So no, Rand would not say he was killed today, unless he wanted to be wrong. :P

[dannno]

Do you think Rand would deny that the US killed Osama today if you asked him right now?

No, but he probably wouldn't say that the US definitely killed OBL either.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[jmdrake]

Well it's official now. In his first radio interview Ron Paul picked option #3.

[Jeremy]

Well it's official now. In his first radio interview Ron Paul picked option #3.

That's what you said about Rand, which I disagree. So could you, if possible, quote what he said?

[jmdrake]

That's what you said about Rand, which I disagree. So could you, if possible, quote what he said?

A transcript is not available yet, but it was discussed in the thread about Ron Paul's appearance today on the Diane Rheems show.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?290578-Reminder-Ron-Paul-will-be-on-NPR-tomorrow

Here's what was said:


glad obl is dead.

why did it take so long?

why was he being harbored by ally we gave $$ to?

good time to get out of afghanistan, but we probably won't.


thinks obl death could affect 2012 election, but still a way off and economy will be main issue.

obl wanted to bankrupt country and succeeded.

why does our government invite conspiracy theories? show the pictures

Medical questions about timing! kill, dna, and burial. Doesn't want to really go into it though until we get more information. Still wants more information before he makes definite conclusion but acknowledges governments do fib at times. Mentions pentagon papers!

So there you have it. He thinks OBL is dead, but so does just about everybody. He hasn't confirmed a belief that the death happened Sunday as was claimed. He acknowledges that it seems fishy, the government lies and more information needs to be released. If that's not # 3 then I don't know what is.

[Jeremy]

If you ask me, it sounds more like #1 and what Scheuer said. "Why did it take so long," means it happened just now. And I agree with Ron Paul and Michael Scheuer that they should release some sort of evidence so they don't invite the conspiracy theories.

[jmdrake]

If you ask me, it sounds more like #1 and what Scheuer said. "Why did it take so long," means it happened just now. And I agree with Ron Paul and Michael Scheuer that they should release some sort of evidence so they don't invite the conspiracy theories.

LOL. So Ron Paul saying can't make a "definition conclusion" until more evidence is release = #1? Did you even read your own poll? :p Whatever. I'll just agree to disagree.

[Jeremy]

LOL. So Ron Paul saying can't make a "definition conclusion" until more evidence is release = #1? Did you even read your own poll? :p Whatever. I'll just agree to disagree.

A conclusion about what? I'd have to listen to what he actually said. There's room to interpret what someone says anyway. Not to mention, I asked two different questions. The question says "what does Ron Paul believe" while the answers say "what Ron Paul will say" lol...

But I do agree with Ron in that we both don't believe the conspiracy theories, but a conspiracy is still a possibility, which is why the administration should release some sort of evidence so people don't think that.

Nope. Islamabad is +9hours ahead of EST. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=106
And according to this: http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/05/02/timeline-how-the-u-s-found-and-killed-osama-bin-laden/
He was killed between 2 and 2:40pm EST. Which means it would still be May 1st in Pakistan when he was killed.

So no, Rand would not say he was killed today, unless he wanted to be wrong. :P
I actually meant UTC it was May 1st. But ya...

[specsaregood]

A conclusion about what? I'd have to listen to what he actually said. There's room to interpret what someone says anyway. Not to mention, I asked two different questions. The question says "what does Ron Paul believe" while the answers say "what Ron Paul will say" lol...

But I do agree with Ron in that we both don't believe the conspiracy theories, but a conspiracy is still a possibility, which is why the administration should release some sort of evidence so people don't think that.

I think the most important part of what Ron said was the question, "Why does the government invite these conspiracy theories?"
ie: what do they get out of it?

[pcosmar]

I am hoping he is careful in whatever statement he makes to not promote the propaganda farce that is being promoted.

[Jeremy]

I think the most important part of what Ron said was the question, "Why does the government invite these conspiracy theories?"
ie: what do they get out of it?

My assumption, for now, is that they don't mean to invite them and will release more evidence at a later time. But this isn't any reason for me to believe they all made it up.

Of course if they take as long as they did with Obama's BC....

[jmdrake]

A conclusion about what? I'd have to listen to what he actually said. There's room to interpret what someone says anyway. Not to mention, I asked two different questions. The question says "what does Ron Paul believe" while the answers say "what Ron Paul will say" lol...

But I do agree with Ron in that we both don't believe the conspiracy theories, but a conspiracy is still a possibility, which is why the administration should release some sort of evidence so people don't think that.

I actually meant UTC it was May 1st. But ya...

Spin it however you want Jeremy, but you're being pathetically intellectually dishonest. You question said: Ron Paul will say Osama was killed by the US today. Instead Ron Paul said that he's Osama is dead as is EVERYONE here but that the evidence being put forward is really shady. And most here have not put forward any specific "theory". Yes there are the earlier stories that Osama died. And it's relevant to bring that up in this context. But nobody has put forward any particular "theory". In thread after thread you've criticized those who have been criticizing Obama's "evidence". Now Ron Paul has done the same thing. And rather than say "Okay, my bad" you're moving the goalpost.