Bin Laden Killed? Who's buying it?

[PatriotOne]

Just checking the collective IQ of the forum.

[Teaser Rate]

No, the government is just orchestrating an easily falsifiable lie which would necessarily involve hundreds of people keeping quiet for the rest of their lives...

[vita3]

I don't believe it for a second & am always slighty suprised @ the RUBES reactions to our Goverments propoganda.

[PatriotOne]

No, the government is just orchestrating an easily falsifiable lie which would necessarily involve hundreds of people keeping quiet for the rest of their lives...

They do it all the time. Business as usual.

[Teaser Rate]

They do it all the time. Business as usual.

The government can't keep anything secret. Look at Watergate or Clinton's affair.

[ghengis86]

Dead since 12-2001
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

[PatriotOne]

The government can't keep anything secret. Look at Watergate or Clinton's affair.

If I had the will, I could respond with 1000's of counter examples. But if you don't know any yourself by now, well.....ya got a lot to learn and I'll leave teaching Conspiracy 101 to someone with more patience than I.

[MN Patriot]

How about a third choice: I don't really know what to believe anymore.

[PatriotOne]

I am encouraged by the 85/15 split so far :)

[PatriotOne]

How about a third choice: I don't really know what to believe anymore.

Yeah. I should have included that. Your reply in the thread will have to do since I can't see how to edit the poll.

[123tim]

The government can't keep anything secret. Look at Watergate or Clinton's affair.

If a secret is well kept, would we know about it?

[Liberty Rebellion]

The government can't keep anything secret. Look at Watergate or Clinton's affair.

They kept the Manhattan Project a secret with over 130,000 employees and various sites across the US. There are many more examples if you care to look

[Wren]

I don't know if it's been exactly a decade, but without proof, I'm not buying it. They could say we've colonized mars but it doesn't mean shit without proof

[PatriotOne]

I don't know if it's been exactly a decade, but without proof, I'm not buying it. They could say we've colonized mars but it doesn't mean shit without proof

What would be proof to you at this point?

[Travlyr]

The government can't keep anything secret. Look at Watergate or Clinton's affair.

Or the "Gulf of Tonkin" incident.

[Wren]

What would be proof to you at this point?

Who killed him
What time he was killed
Witnesses
Photos of the corpse

But then again, I'd probably still be skeptical

[ghengis86]

SEAL team
Yesterday
Witnessed by said SEAL team
Photos taken and posted online
Body dumped at sea

Proof enough for me!

[Wren]

Photos taken and posted online

Proof enough for me!

do you have a link?

[jmdrake]

No, the government is just orchestrating an easily falsifiable lie which would necessarily involve hundreds of people keeping quiet for the rest of their lives...

1) Any attempt at "falsifying" this lie will be met by people like you who will say that it can't be a lie because it could be easily falsified.

2) There were not "hundreds" of people who supposedly went into the compound and shot OBL. And if you're trying to count the people on the ship, don't. I doubt any of them were shown the body. All they likely saw was a body bag dumped into the ocean.

3) So far we don't even know which ship he was dumped off of. So how would anyone even check that?

4) Every time I turn around the stinking story is changing. At first it was "he was dead for a week and we're waiting for the DNA" then it was "We dumped him at sea" then it was "We're waiting to test the DNA".

[moostraks]

The government can't keep anything secret. Look at Watergate or Clinton's affair.

How about the Bilderbergers?

[jmdrake]

do you have a link?

Yes. And even the mainstream media is already reporting that the photo is a fake.

See: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?290339-Faked-Photo-of-Osama-s-death

[ghengis86]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/02/6568249-we-think-that-bin-laden-death-photo-is-a-fake

Sorry. Should have used the /sarc

[PatriotOne]

Who killed him
What time he was killed
Witnesses
Photos of the corpse

But then again, I'd probably still be skeptical

+1. All of that can be manipulated. Just the fact they dumped him in the ocean should give everyone pause.

[Romulus]

Waiting for the 'hero' parade and 60mins interview.... lets see how far it goes. I'm extremely skeptical.

[jmdrake]

The government can't keep anything secret. Look at Watergate or Clinton's affair.

The government kept an entire city in Tennessee a secret. (Oak Ridge). And once the city was revealed it still kept the radiation experiments done on unwitting patients a secret until Clinton apologized. Operation Northwoods (the government plot to kill Americans and blame it on Cuba) was kept secret for decades. The banker plot (the Nazi plot to overthrow FDR that George H.W. Bush's father participated in) was kept secret because congress felt the American people couldn't handle it. That's right congress was let in on that particular secret and it was STILL kept secret.

[pacelli]

Yes. They killed him last night and tossed him in the Atlantic.

Seriously now... is this a joke? I don't watch the media.

[jmdrake]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/02/6568249-we-think-that-bin-laden-death-photo-is-a-fake

Sorry. Should have used the /sarc

LOL. It's been a stressful < 24 hours with changing stories and chicken littles here clucking "Don't question anything! You'll hurt Ron Paul!" :rolleyes:

[PatriotOne]

1) Any attempt at "falsifying" this lie will be met by people like you who will say that it can't be a lie because it could be easily falsified.

2) There were not "hundreds" of people who supposedly went into the compound and shot OBL. And if you're trying to count the people on the ship, don't. I doubt any of them were shown the body. All they likely saw was a body bag dumped into the ocean.

3) So far we don't even know which ship he was dumped off of. So how would anyone even check that?

4) Every time I turn around the stinking story is changing. At first it was "he was dead for a week and we're waiting for the DNA" then it was "We dumped him at sea" then it was "We're waiting to test the DNA".

Typical of any psyops. They always throw in confusing info.

[LeJimster]

We've known for years that Osama was likely dead. The timing is just too perfect for Obama for me to believe it. Also note how they targeted Ghaddafi the day before and killed son and grandchildren. This is all to boost Obama's re-election I'm certain.. I just hope and pray people aren't stupid enough to fall for it.

[Wren]

Yes. And even the mainstream media is already reporting that the photo is a fake.

See: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?290339-Faked-Photo-of-Osama-s-death

+rep. thanks

[ghengis86]

The people believe what they want to believe

[PatriotOne]

SEAL team
Yesterday
Witnessed by said SEAL team
Photos taken and posted online
Body dumped at sea

Proof enough for me!

So who are these brave men? Oh wait. They can't tell us because it's CLASSIFIED.


Meet The 'Seal Team 6', The Bad-Asses Who Killed Osama Bin Laden

The military team that killed Osama Bin Laden is an elite special forces group unofficially called Seal Team 6.

Officially, the team's name is classified and not available to the public, technically there is no team 6. A Tier-One counter-terrorism force similar to the Army's elusive Delta group, Team 6's mission rarely make it to paper much less the newspaper.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-team-that-killed-bin-laden-seal-team-6-2011-5#ixzz1LCWu4ve3

[dawnbt]

The icing on the cake was announcing the mysterious announcement at the same time The Donald was about to fire someone on celebrity apprentice and then holding off for like 45 minutes. LOL!

[silverhandorder]

This is why no one listens to conspiracy theorists. When ever ANYTHING happens it must be a fucking conspiracy.

If US government wanted to make a fake Osama kill why couldn't they simply claim he was incinerated on the spot by a drone attack? Show photos of his look a like entering house and then show house in an inferno after attack. Mission accomplished.

Maybe he was really killed? Did that ever occur to you? I am sitting in a public place as I type this and people are talking about OBL. Guess what no one is questioning this beyond a casual person being pissed he is not being buried with big blood. No matter how loud you scream or question the events an average person would look at how easy it is to fake his death and ignore you.

[mport1]

Wow, didn't realize there were still so many conspiracy theorists on the forums.

[juvanya]

Its bull. He died in 2001.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/54427748/Osama-Report

[ghengis86]

Didn't realize there were so many coincidence theorists on the board

[Liberty Rebellion]

Didn't realize there were so many coincidence theorists on the board

Right. This is the same government and military that used Pat Tillman's death for their own propaganda purposes and covered up how he was killed. So many lies and criminality from these goons and we're supposed to believe this?

[Son of Detroit]

Michael Scheuer believes he was killed yesterday. He knows more about Osama and the situation than this whole board combined.

[farrar]

Let me get this straight...

"Osama didn't die last night. We shoudn't trust the news. I know this because I read this news article 10 years ago... see! Oh and I read these articles all citing each other, see!"

Does anyone else detect the irony?

for those of you with other reasons for believing diffrent, that is fine. But I'm tired of the above paradox... "lets use the dishonest news to disprove the dishonest news" Those articles are no more credible then the articles now (unless you trust the president and his announcment, then todays articles carry more weight).

All it proves is that the media is a propoganda machine (and who the hell didn't know that already?) lol

[Agorism]

I noticed the DailyPaul headline: "Obama announces Osama bin Laden is dead":

[ghengis86]

Michael Scheuer believes he was killed yesterday. He knows more about Osama and the situation than this whole board combined.

Link plz

[PatriotOne]

No matter how loud you scream or question the events an average person would look at how easy it is to fake his death and ignore you.

The average person also voted for Obama or McCain to be president. I don't give a rat's ass about what the average people think at this point. They don't even think. They accept being told what to believe and parrot it.

[Son of Detroit]

Link plz

He was just interviewed on Fox News this morning.

[silverhandorder]

The average person also voted for Obama or McCain to be president. I don't give a rat's ass about what the average people think at this point. They don't even think. They accept being told what to believe and parrot it.

An average person is much smarter than you give them credit. Most people do not vote since they view this as a hopeless process which it is. So McCain and Obama were nominated by a super minority in this country. Are most people ignorant? Yes Are they stupid? No.

[PatriotOne]

Michael Scheuer believes he was killed yesterday. He knows more about Osama and the situation than this whole board combined.

Was he there to witness it or is he just having to rely on the same information we get in the news? And since I have never trusted him myself, it wouldn't change my mind one bit.

[silverhandorder]

Was he there to witness it or is he just having to rely on the same information we get in the news? And since I have never trusted him myself, it wouldn't change my mind one bit.

Who do you trust? Other conspiracy theorists?

[jmdrake]

Link plz

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2011/s3205794.htm

Note that this interview happened before any reports of Osama being buried at sea or his body being held for DNA testing or anything else. Scheuer simply took the initial report at face value (as did most people). There was no indication in the interview of Scheuer having an special "inside knowledge" about the situation. That said, don't expect Scheuer to stray too far from the CIA party line. That's not his MO.

[Cowlesy]

Michael Scheuer believes he was killed yesterday. He knows more about Osama and the situation than this whole board combined.

Yep, I am with Scheuer on this one.

[PatriotOne]

An average person is much smarter than you give them credit. Most people do not vote since they view this as a hopeless process which it is. So McCain and Obama were nominated by a super minority in this country. Are most people ignorant? Yes Are they stupid? No.

They are ignorant and stupid. Because if they were smart, they wouldn't have stayed home and gone to vote for RP.

[jmdrake]

Who do you trust? Other conspiracy theorists?

How about your own eyes and your own common sense? If they have (or had) the body they should produce or at least produce genuine photos of it. Why is it so "conspiratorial" to ask for the obvious?

[PatriotOne]

Who do you trust? Other conspiracy theorists?

Hell no. There's just as many so called conspiracy theorists posing as patriots that are actually cointel as there are sincere one's. The evidence (or lack thereof) speaks for itself.

[PatriotOne]

Yep, I am with Scheuer on this one.

I gotta say I am disappointed in ya Cowsley. I'll get over it.

[PatriotOne]

Didn't realize there were so many coincidence theorists on the board

You still believing the story of the Seals involved who won't be named due to top secret classification?

[ghengis86]

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2011/s3205794.htm

Note that this interview happened before any reports of Osama being buried at sea or his body being held for DNA testing or anything else. Scheuer simply took the initial report at face value (as did most people). There was no indication in the interview of Scheuer having an special "inside knowledge" about the situation. That said, don't expect Scheuer to stray too far from the CIA party line. That's not his MO.

Thanks. I'd like to hear what he has to say about it after a few days to digest. I tend to think Scheuer is a credible source on a lot of things, OBL included

[silverhandorder]

How about your own eyes and your own common sense? If they have (or had) the body they should produce or at least produce genuine photos of it. Why is it so "conspiratorial" to ask for the obvious?

Common sense tells me that it is easy to fake, so easy that there is no reason to stage a circus about it unless it was really an Osama kill. I am always open to evidence but so far it is rabid speculation at everything by the usual suspects.

[PatriotOne]

83/16 split still encouraging :).

[ghengis86]

You still believing the story of the Seals involved who won't be named due to top secret classification?

I believe that no one will be named, period.

[PatriotOne]

Common sense tells me that it is easy to fake, so easy that there is no reason to stage a circus about it unless it was really an Osama kill. I am always open to evidence but so far it is rabid speculation at everything by the usual suspects.

It's easy to understand if you know the full agenda. I gotta go to work but perhaps I'll take the time to explain later.

[eduardo89]

Tossed him into the Atlantic? Wouldn't they have thrown him into the Indian Ocean?

[PatriotOne]

I believe that no one will be named, period.

So basically you don't need evidence? Obama's word is good enough for you?

[jmdrake]

Common sense tells me that it is easy to fake, so easy that there is no reason to stage a circus about it unless it was really an Osama kill. I am always open to evidence but so far it is rabid speculation at everything by the usual suspects.

The reason for the circus is the same whether Osama was really killed or not. Obama desperately needs a win right now. As for waiting for evidence, that's what those of us who are being skeptical are doing. We're waiting for evidence of the actual death and pointing out that so far it's lacking. Not only has the evidence not been produced, but the story hasn't even congealed yet. It seems someone is through out random conflicting stories to see which one works the best.

[specsaregood]

4) Every time I turn around the stinking story is changing. At first it was "he was dead for a week and we're waiting for the DNA" then it was "We dumped him at sea" then it was "We're waiting to test the DNA".

and don't forget the huffpost article that ran 3 days ago saying that Obama had ordered the military to get serious about finding Bin Laden. which means it came out 4 days after his death OR all it took was the president to tell them to get serious about it and bam it was done in 3 days. lol

This is all rather amusing, but hey let's turn it into a plus for Dr. Paul.

[ghengis86]

So basically you don't need evidence? Obama's word is good enough for you?

Dude, I don't believe the gov. I think OBL died years ago. I'll reconsider if someone like Scheuer thinks it was legit. But I'm skeptical of anything the gov says

[GuerrillaXXI]

Unless I see photos, I'm not going to believe it. I saw photos of the interior of the place where OBL was said to have been hiding. Am I supposed to believe they didn't take a picture of the corpse as well?

The firefight was supposed to have lasted 40 minutes -- plenty of time for OBL to see that he was surrounded, that the US knew his exact location, and that he wasn't getting away. He could have had an aide take his life. Even more, I'd expect him to have had his hideout wired up to explode as soon as US troops entered. Instead he just sat there and waited for a SEAL to get a clean shot right through his head?

If the US knew where OBL was, then why didn't they use a drone strike, as they've done so many other times in Pakistan?

There was supposedly a woman present as a "human shield." Yeah, like a single human shield would be effective against a US attack. Are we supposed to believe that OBL is not only the epitome of evil, but a blooming idiot as well?

Then, to top it all off, they quickly dispose of the body at sea. LOL

The US government has a history of lying to its people and to the world. Operation Northwoods, the Bay of Pigs, the USS Liberty, Saddam's WMDs, etc. Pardon me if I don't take them at their word this time. I'm going to have to see some pretty convincing evidence.

[jmdrake]

and don't forget the huffpost article that ran 3 days ago saying that Obama had ordered the military to get serious about finding Bin Laden. which means it came out 4 days after his death OR all it took was the president to tell them to get serious about it and bam it was done in 3 days. lol

This is all rather amusing, but hey let's turn it into a plus for Dr. Paul.

That's cause Obama called in the super hero squad. ;)

http://pingounica.com/xD/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/super-obama1.png

http://www.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/obamaspiderman1.jpg

[PatriotOne]

Dude, I don't believe the gov. I think OBL died years ago. I'll reconsider if someone like Scheuer thinks it was legit. But I'm skeptical of anything the gov says

Sorry. I missed the sarcasm on this post of yours...lol.

SEAL team
Yesterday
Witnessed by said SEAL team
Photos taken and posted online
Body dumped at sea

Proof enough for me!

[speciallyblend]

the question is not who is buying it. The question is why kill him now? They could of killed him from day one! I expect he missed a life payment to someone around him! My question is what were the real reasons for killing him now!!

[ghengis86]

Sorry. I missed the sarcasm on this post of yours...lol.

No problem. My initial reaction is skepticism to anything from the gov, then try to form the most sensical opinion based on all the info, limited and murky as it is.

Dumping the body in the ocean is pretty much a deal breaker though.

[payme_rick]

Some pretty interesting shit I must say... I don't doubt the story so much as I think it's foolish to buy it right now...

But I must say, it's rather annoying to see the front page of General covered with threads for individual poster opinions on the same subject...

I do get it that there needs to be separate discussion about how to address it with friends/what Ron should do but seriously folks, every thread I open looks pretty much the same... just post in one or two threads, we've got other work to do as well...

[speciallyblend]

I wanna see a death certificate:) /S

[Bodhi]

So they finally kill OBL and then immediately toss his dead body into the sea and we are supposed to buy that? Give me a break.

[mac_hine]

Osama bin Dead awhile 12-24-10 By Keith Johnson http://revoltoftheplebs.wordpress.com/2010/12/24/osama-bin-deadawhile/

http://revoltoftheplebs.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/dead2.jpg?w=437&h=300

The next time the CIA comes up with another Osama bin Laden videotape, you might want to compare their images of the alleged al-Qaeda leader to the photograph I’ve provided here. If he looks any healthier than that, then you’re probably looking at an imposter.

http://revoltoftheplebs.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/corpse_in_coffin.jpg?w=127&h=300

Yeah, Osama has definitely seen better days. But give the guy a break, huh? You wouldn’t look much better if you’d been dead for nine years.

Oh, by the way, in case you’ve just joined us? Osama bin Laden is dead.

He died in the Tora Bora Mountains of Afghanistan on December 13, 2001. He was buried in an unmarked grave within 24 hours of his death. Case closed.

But don’t just take my word for it. Top terror experts, intelligence analysts, academics, government officials, and even major political figures around the globe tend to agree that, “All the evidence suggests Elvis Presley is more alive today than Osama Bin Laden.”

I know this is old news to most of you, but I think it’s important to reiterate this fact. Why? Because Christmas season is upon us, and you know what that means: Terrorism!

That’s right! “Tis the season to be frightened,” and what 21st century Christmas would be complete without a holiday greeting from the man often credited with masterminding the attacks behind 9/11?

But wait—it’s already Christmas Eve (at least it was at the time of this writing)—and although our government has been hyping the threat al-Qaeda poses to the American people, one central figure has been conspicuously absent from their conspiracy theories.

Could it be that our government has finally given up on trying to convince the American people that Osama bin Laden is still alive and kicking? There sure is plenty to suggest that their efforts have thus far failed to inspire the kind of fear they need to justify these unpopular wars abroad, and the even more unpopular war on the civil liberties of American citizens here at home.

A CNN poll conducted in September of this year reveals that 67% of Americans believe it is unlikely the U.S. will ever capture or kill Osama bin Laden. That’s a dramatic increase since 2001, when only 20% believed that it would be unlikely that the government would catch him. One thing this poll does not address is why the American people believe it is unlikely that the U.S. will capture or kill Osama bin Laden. But you and I know the answer to that question, right? Right—because he’s dead!

By the time this poll was conducted, the American people had already grown tired of the ad nauseam attempts by our government to breathe life into this long dead villain. Each new audio and videotape pufporting to be that of Osama bin Laden failed to stand up to scrutiny. One of the more prominent critics of these tapes is former U.S. foreign intelligence officer Angelo M. Codevilla, who is now a professor of international relations at Boston University. In March of 2009, Codevilla wrote a damning critique of the countless recordings in an article for American Spectator Magazine.

According to Codevilla, Some videos show him [bin Laden]with a Semitic aquiline nose, while others show him with a shorter, broader one.

He also determined that none of the audio recordings match up either. Not only has voice recognition software found them to be not authentic, but even the secular language used by the “fake Osama” is inconsistent with the real bin Laden’s strict Islamic Wahhabism.

Codevilla also points out some of the finer discrepancies found in the videos. Like the fact that Bin Laden is left-handed, but uses his right hand to write with. He’s also seen wearing gold rings that are decidedly un-Wahabbi.

But these criticisms did not dissuade ‘the powers that be’ from releasing even more fake recordings. However, they were obviously persuaded to play it safe by exclusively sticking to an audio format.

They managed to keep him alive for a while longer, but then totally ‘jumped the shark,’ on January 29, 2010. That was the day that Osama bin Laden (the fake one, of course) scolded the U.S. for its failure to address climate change. It was a laugh riot, and quite possibly what drove that final nail into OBL’s coffin once and for all.

We didn’t hear much from Osama bin Laden after that. Then, less than a month after the CNN poll was conducted, three more audiotapes were released during the month of October. But these recordings generated about as much excitement as an Ashton Kutcher film.

So, do you think that our betters have finally decided to retire OBL’s jersey? That would seem to be the case.

Yesterday, in an op-ed piece for the Washington Times, former White House aide Robert Weiner and national security analyst James Lewis floated the idea that Osama bin Laden is most likely dead.

“Is bin Laden dead or alive? Nobody seems to know for sure, or, if anybody does, he isn’t saying. The White House’s Afghanistan-Pakistan review this month didn’t even mention him despite an ongoing, decade-long manhunt.”

But then they put a peculiar spin on their piece by suggesting that it is al-Qaeda that is trying to conceal bin Laden’s earthly departure.

“Al Qaeda wants America and the world to believe bin Laden is still alive. His image is a specter of the horrors of Sept. 11, helping build public support for everything from troop surges a globe away to warrantless wiretaps at home.

But the image of bin Laden is getting moldy, and there’s little reason for his ghost to scare anyone anymore. If al Qaeda wants America to believe bin Laden is alive, it should put up or shut up.”

This is not something you would expect to find in the Washington Times, which is a fanatical supporter of the‘war on terror’and a mouthpiece for whatever propaganda is coming out of the Pentagon. But there you have it.

We may very well find our government putting closure to this whole Osama bin Laden affair in the very near future. I expect them to come up with a body. Maybe they’ll dig him up out of the hills of Afghanistan, or claim that he was recently blown to bits following a bloody fire fight in Yemen. Whatever happens, you can sure that our government will declare, “Mission Accomplished” and finally have something to show for all those billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives it cost to get him.

But don’t think that will put an exclamation point to this entire saga. No siree. They’re just getting started, and they have a whole new bin Laden waiting in the wings.

Up till now, bin Laden has been our government’s real life version of Emmanuel Goldstein. In case you don’t know who that is, I recommend you read George Orwell’s 1984.

In the novel, Goldstein was the Ministry of Truth’s poster child for terrorism. Like bin Laden, he was elusive and seemed to be everywhere. But the only place he actually showed up was on the nation’s telescreens. Each day, at 11:00am, images of Goldstein would be flashed before the eyes of Oceania’s citizenry, as part of a daily ritual known as “Two Minutes Hate.” It was a constant reminder to the people that the threat of terrorism was real and ever-present, and ensured that public support for the government’s ongoing wars was continuous.

With bin Laden gone, they’ll need a whole new Goldstein to take his place.

Anwar Al-awaki is that guy. He’s another CIA creation that is being bumped up from the minor leagues. Al-awaki has a very impressive resume who has been linked to the 9/11 plotters, the Ft. Hood shooter, and both the Christmas Day and Times Square bombers. He’s a big hit with the western intelligence crowd, and even dined with top-level Pentagon officials just months after 9/11.

And, just like bin Laden, he’ll be just like the American Express Card: He’s “everywhere you want to be!”

Remember when there was much chatter about a strike on Iran last summer? Osama bin Laden and his pet falcon just happened to be there, living it up in a guarded compound north of Tehran.

Or how about when the Pentagon was ‘testing the waters’ to expand the Afghan war into Pakistan last October? Well, bin Laden was there too, “living comfortably” in a cozy little hideaway somewhere north of the Kurrum Valley.

And let’s not forget how the U.S. has been salivating to break Yemen wide open. Well, wouldn’t you know it? Last month, Osama bin Laden was believed to be shopping for new digs—somwhere near Hadramout—so he could be close to the rest of his al-Queda buddies, and finally have a chance to settle down, and start a brand new family with his latest child bride.

Now that’s what I call one active senior citizen.

But I think you’ll agree that Osama bin Laden is nearing the end of his run. At some point in time, you’ve got to switch out actors to breathe new life into the franchise.

I liked Roger Moore as James Bond, but everyone agreed that this 57-year-old had to go after “From a View to a Kill.” You can only suspend so much disbelief when you see a guy— who can now get half price at Denny’s—knocking down multiple assailants and bedding women young enough to be his granddaughter.

Same thing with Osama. He’s too old and becoming increasingly irrelevant. It’s time our government introduces a new villain to the franchise before they lose their audience altogether.

So expect someone new to emerge from the smokey clouds of the next false flag. He’ll be young, tanned and ready to kick some infidel ass. He might even make a grand entrance like Pierce Brosnan did in the trailer to Golden Eye:

“My name is Al-awaki…Anwar Al awaki…Were you expecting someone else?”

[shoshanshopon]

If I had the will, I could respond with 1000's of counter examples. But if you don't know any yourself by now, well.....ya got a lot to learn and I'll leave teaching Conspiracy 101 to someone with more patience than I.

If you know thousands of government secrets then the government is not very good at keeping secrets, are they?

[juleswin]

How about trust but verify? I am alittle disappointed since I expected the result to be something like 99% to 1%. Vidoes of Ude and Quse Hussein was on TV hrs after he was dead, so that is the kind of evidence required to believe this lying govt.

Btw its not only us doubting this story, just take a stroll to the very liberal democraticunderground.com and see the dozens of threads started about this story. But you have to look very deep since they have buried them all in 911 conspiracy section.

[Echoes]

Everything the Govt does seems so frikkin shady, i have a hard time believing anything they say.

[juleswin]

Dude, I don't believe the gov. I think OBL died years ago. I'll reconsider if someone like Scheuer thinks it was legit. But I'm skeptical of anything the gov says

Yea, because Scheuer has the last word on it. Believe evidence not people. I trust Ron Paul on economic matters but if tomorrow he changes his mind and start preaching Keynesian policies, I wouldn't believe it.

Also why believe Scheuer, he wasn't there during the killing.

[nobody's_hero]

Why are the only two options in this poll that he is dead?

It's bullshit. He isn't dead. He's probably being financed on some private isle in the Pacific by the CIA until it's time to make another video clip in front of a cave background.

[2young2vote]

How did they have his DNA records on file to confirm it?

[Roxi]

and don't forget the huffpost article that ran 3 days ago saying that Obama had ordered the military to get serious about finding Bin Laden. which means it came out 4 days after his death OR all it took was the president to tell them to get serious about it and bam it was done in 3 days. lol

This is all rather amusing, but hey let's turn it into a plus for Dr. Paul.

Hey do you have a link for the huffpo article?

[jmdrake]

I wanna see a death certificate:) /S

+rep and thread winna! :)

[GuerrillaXXI]

How did they have his DNA records on file to confirm it?That's a good question, but I'm pretty sure they can match a person's DNA by comparison with DNA taken voluntarily from family members.

I still think the story is bullshit, but mainly for the reasons given earlier.

[ghengis86]

Yea, because Scheuer has the last word on it. Believe evidence not people. I trust Ron Paul on economic matters but if tomorrow he changes his mind and start preaching Keynesian policies, I wouldn't believe it.

Also why believe Scheuer, he wasn't there during the killing.

Scheuer is a very intelligent man and has very detailed, first hand knowledge of OBL. I said I'd reconsider, not take his word as gospel

[ghengis86]

That's a good question, but I'm pretty sure they can match a person's DNA by comparison with DNA taken voluntarily from family members.

I still think the story is bullshit, but mainly for the reasons given earlier.

He was a US asset and apparently had some medical work done in the US. As Pete stated elsewhere, it's in his CIA file

[aGameOfThrones]

Woe for the 20 who voted Yes. LOL.

Well, now that I think about it the gov did kill Osama yesterday, maybe not the body but the name. Who's going to replace him now?

[juleswin]

Scheuer is a very intelligent man and has very detailed, first hand knowledge of OBL. I said I'd reconsider, not take his word as gospel

You are fool if you believe a man's word without evidence, especially when he wasnt there when the incident happened. Sorry, but am not that easily convinced.

[eproxy100]

What do you guys think of this article:

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/may012011/bin-laden-tk.php

"First, let's remember that this man was not wanted in connected with the attacks that happened on U.S. soil 11 Sept. 2001. A statement was released by bin Laden immediately after the attacks stating that he had nothing to do with the U.S. attacks."

It has a lot of other interesting statements.

It's really hard to believe anything from the govt, like WMDs in Iraq.

[juvanya]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/05/white-house-officials-debate-releasing-photographs-of-bin-ladens-corpse-1.html


The Obama administration has photographs of Osama bin Laden’s dead body and officials are debating what to do with them and whether they should be released to the public, officials tell ABC News.

“There’s no doubt it’s him,” says a US official who has seen the pictures and also reminds us that OBL was 6’4”.

The argument for releasing them: to ensure that the public knows and can appreciate that he's dead. There is of course skepticism throughout the world that the US government claim that it killed bin Laden is true.

The argument against releasing the pictures: they’re gruesome. He has a massive head wound above his left eye where he took bullet, with brains and blood visible.

In July 2003, the US government released photographs of Saddam Hussein’s dead sons Uday and Qusay Hussain but not until after they’d been touched up by a mortician, making them look not quite real.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-kill-idUSTRE7413H220110502


(Reuters) - The U.S. special forces team that hunted down Osama bin Laden was under orders to kill the al Qaeda mastermind, not capture him, a U.S. national security official told Reuters.

"This was a kill operation," the official said, making clear there was no desire to try to capture bin Laden alive in Pakistan.

Because you cant showcase a fake?

[Brett85]

Is everything now a conspiracy theory?

[Teaser Rate]

Is everything now a conspiracy theory?

Apparently.

[aGameOfThrones]

Is everything now a conspiracy theory?


Let me ask the government...

[nobody's_hero]

When your level of trust in government is at an all time low, and then the government comes out and tells you that they killed the most important figure in the "War on Terror" but shipped him out to sea really fast and dumped him into the water, because they didn't want to piss off Muslims by breaking tradition (even though we've been bombing the middle east for 20 years without any regard to their feelings), nearly anything is more plausible as truth than the 'official stories'.

[aGameOfThrones]

When your level of trust in government is at an all time low, and then the government comes out and tells you that they killed the most important figure in the "War on Terror" but shipped him out to sea really fast and dumped him into the water, because they didn't want to piss off Muslims by breaking tradition (even though we've been bombing the middle east for 20 years without any regard to their feelings), nearly anything is more plausible as truth than the 'official stories'.


+rep, I said something similar in another thread.

[GuerrillaXXI]

Is everything now a conspiracy theory?No -- just Project MK ULTRA, Operation Northwoods, the Gulf of Tonkin, Saddam's WMDs, the action-packed Jessica Lynch "rescue," etc. In other words, there is no doubt whatsoever that the US government has a history of lying and, yes, conspiring. So when a story seems suspicious, it is a very good idea to question it.

[PatriotOne]

Is everything now a conspiracy theory?

The problem is once they tell a lie that big they got to keep lying to cover up the first lie...so yeah..... lot's of conspiracies. But the real reason everything is so transparent to anyone paying attention is because it is meant to be transparent. The globalists are taking this country down also and are doing a good job of making us look bad. Same thing with Obama's new birth certificate. Not only is it a fake.... it was intentionally a very bad fake. 9/11 obvious false flag. On and on and on. Order out of Chaos.

[Brett85]

When your level of trust in government is at an all time low, and then the government comes out and tells you that they killed the most important figure in the "War on Terror" but shipped him out to sea really fast and dumped him into the water, because they didn't want to piss off Muslims by breaking tradition (even though we've been bombing the middle east for 20 years without any regard to their feelings), nearly anything is more plausible as truth than the 'official stories'.

That's a good point, but haven't they already released the pictures?

[CaseyJones]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4672216/what-is-navy-seal-team-6
Scheuer interview

[Roxi]

http://laughterandliberty.com/that-wool-over-your-eyes-isnt-it-itchy/

[jmdrake]

That's a good point, but haven't they already released the pictures?

The only pictures released so far are obvious fakes.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?290339-Faked-Photo-of-Osama-s-death

That's what everybody is yapping about.

[kirkschamel]

Exactly. I want to see real proof - like his head on my dinner table...

[ClayTrainor]

That's a good point, but haven't they already released the pictures?
Haven't heard of anything legit yet. There have been some confirmed fakes.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-110502-osama-bin-laden-fake-picture.photoblog900.jpg

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/02/6568249-webs-bin-laden-death-photo-just-the-photo-is-fake

[Teaser Rate]

Hopefully this will end the conspiracy theories:

DNA Proves Usama Bin Laden's Death, Obama Officials Say (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/02/dna-proves-bin-ladens-death-obama-officials-say/)


Two Obama administration officials say DNA evidence has proven that Usama bin Laden is dead, with 99.9 percent confidence.

The officials did not immediately say where or how the testing was done, but the test explains why President Obama was confident to announce bin Laden's death to the world Sunday night.

A senior U.S. official told Fox News that a Navy SEAL from Team Six, a top military counterterrorism unit, identified Bin Laden by his face. The official said the Al Qaeda leader did not appear to be ravaged or starved from his years in hiding, saying it appeared Bin Laden had been living well.

The official also said the SEALs used "facial recognition pulls" to confirm Bin Laden's identity on site by comparing his height, ears, nose and mouth to known photos of him.

The official said the White House is still deciding on when and how to released the photo of Bin Laden to avoid any conspiracy theories about his death. The official said it is believed that only the U.S. is in possession of the photo.

[hillbilly123069]

What is it that they are doing behind the curtain while we look at the ocean view?

[jmdrake]

Hopefully this will end the conspiracy theories:

DNA Proves Usama Bin Laden's Death, Obama Officials Say (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/02/dna-proves-bin-ladens-death-obama-officials-say/)

Of course. The Whitehouse says it so it must be true. I mean it's not like if they simply said "We've got his DNA" and didn't release pictures, people like yourself wouldn't automatically believe it right? :rolleyes:

[aGameOfThrones]

Hopefully this will end the conspiracy theories:

DNA Proves Usama Bin Laden's Death, Obama Officials Say (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/02/dna-proves-bin-ladens-death-obama-officials-say/)


I'm convinced, can I change my vote from NO to Yes?

[pcosmar]

Hopefully this will end the conspiracy theories:

DNA Proves Usama Bin Laden's Death, Obama Officials Say (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/02/dna-proves-bin-ladens-death-obama-officials-say/)
Source lacks credibility.
Please present a credible source.

[PatriotOne]

LOL. DNA. I'm pretty confident they would have retained some the first time they killed him so it means nothing. NOTHING. They dumped his body in the OCEAN.

[Teaser Rate]

Source lacks credibility.
Please present a credible source.

You don't consider the AP to be credible?

[dannno]

No, the government is just orchestrating an easily falsifiable lie which would necessarily involve hundreds of people keeping quiet for the rest of their lives...

Why can't only two people know?

What elaborate plan have you cooked up in your head that would take so many people knowing?

[ClayTrainor]

You don't consider the AP to be credible?

AP isn't the source ;)

[Pericles]

Michael Scheuer believes he was killed yesterday. He knows more about Osama and the situation than this whole board combined.

A good point from which to base assumptions.

[pcosmar]

You don't consider the AP to be credible?
AP is not the source, neither is FAUX. only the means of distribution.

Two Obama administration officials say DNA evidence has proven that Usama bin Laden is dead, with 99.9 percent confidence.
Source is NOT Credible.

[nobody's_hero]

As much as I don't believe this story to be true, the only way we'll ever know for sure is if someone in the raid comes out and says that there was no Osama death (which would be huge). This story just smells too fishy for my liking.

[JackieDan]

They killed him last week, I believe that.

[ClayTrainor]

They killed him last week, I believe that.

Based on reason and evidence, or faith? If reason and evidence, please provide. :)

[Johnnymac]

Pics or it didn't happen!

[jmdrake]

AP is not the source, neither is FAUX. only the means of distribution.

Source is NOT Credible.

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later. Well I'll go old school and say +1776.

[Brian4Liberty]

When your level of trust in government is at an all time low, and then the government comes out and tells you that they killed the most important figure in the "War on Terror" but shipped him out to sea really fast and dumped him into the water, because they didn't want to piss off Muslims by breaking tradition (even though we've been bombing the middle east for 20 years without any regard to their feelings), nearly anything is more plausible as truth than the 'official stories'.

Actually, that type of contradiction is expected, especially from liberals. They go to great lengths to be politically correct, even while they are in the middle of killing children in Tripoli.

[jclay2]

"We have the body.....And..........Its Gone!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAKsMnAM8vk

[UtahApocalypse]

They killed him last week, I believe that.

They did not kill him last week. He did die a week ago of natural causes. Obama does not get much political bump from Osama avoiding the US until after his death. Obama poll numbers will likely double this week now, with an almost assured reelection victory. Think about it..... No body because there are no gun shots.

[jmdrake]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4672216/what-is-navy-seal-team-6
Scheuer interview

I'm still not sure why we put so much faith in this former CIA operative.

That said, it is interesting that the reporter pointed out that OBL's compound was < 100 yards from a Pakistani military compound and that Scheuer pointed out that this means Pakistani intelligence was probably protecting OBL all along or at least knew he was there. (Well duh!)

[PatriotOne]

I'm happy with a 75/25 percent split. In 2007, 75% would have believed it so substantial progress has been made on these boards. Wish I had made the boards public now so we know who needs to go to special ed classes...hehe.

[jclay2]

I'm happy with a 75/25 percent split. In 2007, 75% would have believed it so substantial progress has been made on these boards. Wish I had made the boards public now so we know who needs to go to special ed classes...hehe.

Don't be to harsh. They are slowly coming around.

[nate895]

I think it's pointless to argue about this now. Bin Laden's dead, whether he was dead 10 years ago, 5 years ago, or yesterday is beyond the point. Getting the troops home will now be even more of a cause celebre than it was before. That means that if Obama doesn't start taking the troops home soon, it will be the golden opportunity for Ron Paul to be swept in on a populist uprising.

[Matt Collins]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhXt4BjLL0g

[Dreamofunity]

When it first happened, I was surprised given I had believed him dead for some time. But, when they were claiming they had the body and all, I thought, "Oh, okay, maybe he was alive. Good thing we got him."

Now with the whole 'throw him in the ocean, that sounds like a good idea' thing, I lean back to my original belief of him being dead for sometime.

[nate895]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhXt4BjLL0g

That idiot with his shirt off is, well, an idiot.

[JohnGalt1225]

No, the government is just orchestrating an easily falsifiable lie which would necessarily involve hundreds of people keeping quiet for the rest of their lives...
Don't you realize it doesn't matter? Now that the government has made it the official story that bin Laden was killed last night in a scene straight out of a Tom Clancy novel and then dumped in the ocean. That's that. Anyone who questions it, even with legit information will be a "conspiracy theorist." They'll become "deathers" along with truthers, birthers, etc. Even if Osama bin Laden comes out with a video (assuming he still may be alive), Uncle Sam will have a parade of "experts" and Karl Rove types to inform us it's a fake.

[jmdrake]

I think it's pointless to argue about this now. Bin Laden's dead, whether he was dead 10 years ago, 5 years ago, or yesterday is beyond the point. Getting the troops home will now be even more of a cause celebre than it was before. That means that if Obama doesn't start taking the troops home soon, it will be the golden opportunity for Ron Paul to be swept in on a populist uprising.

How many troops came home after this happened?

http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/filmi_sangeet/media/2003_saddam.jpg

Yes we should make the case that this should end the GWOT and we should get our freedoms back. But I wouldn't hold my breast on that happening spontaneously.

[jmdrake]

That idiot with his shirt off is, well, an idiot.

Yeah. But there are millions more just like him.

[PatriotOne]

Don't be to harsh. They are slowly coming around.

That was me being nice! I could have been alot ruder to people who believe osama was thrown in the ocean and that that's normal procedure for the most wanted man in the world. hahahahahahahahahaha

[nate895]

How many troops came home after this happened?

http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/filmi_sangeet/media/2003_saddam.jpg

Yes we should make the case that this should end the GWOT and we should get our freedoms back. But I wouldn't hold my breast on that happening spontaneously.

The difference is that Hussein wasn't "enemy no. 1" like Bin Laden was. The entire stated reason we were anywhere in the Mid East was to put pressure on Bin Laden's terror network. Now that he is dead, our stated reason for being there goes by the wayside. People are already starting to talk about using this for the purpose of bringing the troops home. Even Charles Krauthammer was talking about that.

[vita3]

Rube long weekend.

Royal Wedding phoney-baloney & the osama shot in the eye the next Sunday & tossed him in the ocean bit

How can this ever be topped?

[jmdrake]

The difference is that Hussein wasn't "enemy no. 1" like Bin Laden was. The entire stated reason we were anywhere in the Mid East was to put pressure on Bin Laden's terror network. Now that he is dead, our stated reason for being there goes by the wayside. People are already starting to talk about using this for the purpose of bringing the troops home. Even Charles Krauthammer was talking about that.

Ummm...technically the reason for 9/11 was because we were in the middle east. :p And by the time Hussein was captured he had become public enemy number 1. Bush had gone on TV and said he wasn't even "thinking" about OBL. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and that was admitted by the Bush administration....after they first lied about it. I'm glad Charles Krauthammer is talking about this. I'm glad Michael Steele came out against the war in Afghanistan before getting canned. But at the same time people are using this to push for expanding the GWOT.

[nate895]

How can this ever be topped?

Ron Paul gets elected and brings the troops home.

[nobody's_hero]

They'll become "deathers" along with truthers, birthers, etc. .

Already starting.

But, I'm convinced that one day my grandchildren will think very poorly of the folks of my generation for believing anything the government said.

[ClayTrainor]

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkjy00flqU1qcppqdo1_500.jpg

[Freedom 4 all]

President of Pakistan said he was dead, a few days before she was assassinated. I'm sure those things have no connection whatsoever.

[nate895]

Ummm...technically the reason for 9/11 was because we were in the middle east. :p And by the time Hussein was captured he had become public enemy number 1. Bush had gone on TV and said he wasn't even "thinking" about OBL. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and that was admitted by the Bush administration....after they first lied about it. I'm glad Charles Krauthammer is talking about this. I'm glad Michael Steele came out against the war in Afghanistan before getting canned. But at the same time people are using this to push for expanding the GWOT.

Some people are, but I don't think the American people in general are up for it. We have been at war for ten years, it can't go on for much longer. Our treasury is empty and more men shed blood by the day. Bin Laden being dead is the perfect excuse for what everyone wanted to do in the first place: Go home.

[nobody's_hero]

Clay, I feel that the folks who believe that this announcement has secured Obama a second term are seriously discounting the short-term memory of the American people. If Obama wanted this to help him in a re-election, he should have saved the announcement for mid-October 2012, at the earliest.

A lot can happen in the next 18 months. $6/gal gas. Currency crisis. Another bubble pop. Natural disaster. Superbowl.

[nate895]

Clay, I feel that the folks who believe that this announcement has secured Obama a second term are seriously discounting the short-term memory of the American people. If Obama wanted this to help him in a re-election, he should have saved the announcement for mid-October, at the earliest.

A lot can happen in the next 18 months. $6/gal gas. Currency crisis. Natural disaster. Superbowl.

The best time for Obama to have done this announcement would be right as the GOP primary was effectively wrapping up to outshine the introduction of the nominee to the voters. That's one reason that I lean towards this announcement being moderately truthful, but I really don't know and don't care.

[jclay2]

Some people are, but I don't think the American people in general are up for it. We have been at war for ten years, it can't go on for much longer. Our treasury is empty and more men shed blood by the day. Bin Laden being dead is the perfect excuse for what everyone wanted to do in the first place: Go home.

Thats what I thought 5 years ago. Even after OBL was killed, the first response was for more vigilance and security! With our recent intervention in Libya (not to mention all of the beautiful PERMANENT bases), I doubt we will ever leave.

[jmdrake]

Some people are, but I don't think the American people in general are up for it. We have been at war for ten years, it can't go on for much longer. Our treasury is empty and more men shed blood by the day. Bin Laden being dead is the perfect excuse for what everyone wanted to do in the first place: Go home.

Great. I'm all for that. I guess what I'm saying is that it won't happen if people like you and I don't get out there and push it.

[specsaregood]

Clay, I feel that the folks who believe that this announcement has secured Obama a second term are seriously discounting the short-term memory of the American people. If Obama wanted this to help him in a re-election, he should have saved the announcement for mid-October 2012, at the earliest.

A lot can happen in the next 18 months. $6/gal gas. Currency crisis. Another bubble pop. Natural disaster. Superbowl.

Unless this little bump was needed to setup a falseflag/blowback attack that would be more memorable and cement another term in office. Just saying....

[nate895]

Great. I'm all for that. I guess what I'm saying is that it won't happen if people like you and I don't get out there and push it.

I'm already liking every post on FB that has to do with bringing the troops home. We have time to do this, this will still be fresh in GOP primary minds by the time Iowa comes around. Ron Paul needs to mention it in the first debate, and come out swinging in the second.

[tpreitzel]

And the alleged burial at sea just seals my refusal to accept more governmental nonsense without independent proof. As I said last night, this latest shenanigan by our corrupt government, i.e. destroying evidence, strongly indicates foul play which will only turn this incident into another JFK, OKC, and 9/11.

Tragically, the corrupt US government IS a major problem.

[nate895]

Thats what I thought 5 years ago. Even after OBL was killed, the first response was for more vigilance and security! With our recent intervention in Libya (not to mention all of the beautiful PERMANENT bases), I doubt we will ever leave.

Is the Libyan intervention popular? No. We have to go to the people. The people in power will not listen, but the public might.

[Brian4Liberty]

The difference is that Hussein wasn't "enemy no. 1" like Bin Laden was. The entire stated reason we were anywhere in the Mid East was to put pressure on Bin Laden's terror network.

President Bush made a speech directed at Iraq right before the war started where he said that it was all about Saddam, and nothing else. If Bush had left Iraq right after Saddam was captured, Bush would be considered a hero right now (in general, not to everyone). The rebellions and violence didn't start until after Bush stayed after capturing Saddam.

[Aratus]

i think neither choise is accurate. i assume the special forces dudes shot up a corpse.
i'd have to say several years even though a debate is not ruled out. i can assume that
the corpse that may have been carried upright is the same corpse that was DNA tested.
i think the core group of zealots in the compound hid a death from their followers. i once
thought that his accumulated health issues translated into a quiet death behind the scenes.
i think that if this was OBL, the demise had transpired well long before january one of this year.

[osan]

The government can't keep anything secret. Look at Watergate or Clinton's affair.

Here folks, we see an example of an epic failure in the application of reason.

If the government is perchance keeping secrets, we would not know it, right?

That some "secrets" spring a leak only demonstrates one of two things: either that particular effort to keep a secret failed, or it was never meant to be kept in the first place.

That is your logic 001 lesson for today. Quiz on Wednesday morning. Be sharp.

[osan]

How about a third choice: I don't really know what to believe anymore.

This deserves rep.

[PatriotOne]

75/25 split. The "OBL swimmin with da fish" are the new fringe around these parts. Everyone point and laugh at them :cool:.

[specsaregood]

for the record, i just did a poll of 5 acquaintences, none of them truthers or into politics.

not a single one believed this story and they all said it was complete B.S.

The most common reply was, "do you think I'm stupid?"

[Freedom 4 all]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhXt4BjLL0g

*read in Steve Irwin's voice*

Crikey, what we have here is what is known as the Boobus Americanus. Very common in these parts, but a truly extraordinary specimen nontheless. Notice the distinctive lack of critical thinking and utter disinterest in seeing any proof whatsoever they got OBL. Boobus don't arrive at conclusions like other creatures. If the government says something, then that is true to them. No lack of evidence/evidence to the contrary will convince him otherwise, as a result of the thick skull that is nearly impervious to logic. Also notice the blind patriotism he exhibits and complete lack of political awareness when he asks what China has done lately. They funded the enitre war and as a result now own his entire country, yet the boobus remains blissfully unaware.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

When Bush starts a war he's a war criminal. When Obama starts one, he's a hero.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

*read in Steve Irwin's voice*

Crikey, what we have here is what is known as the Boobus Americanus. Very common in these parts, but a truly extraordinary specimen nontheless. Notice the distinctive lack of critical thinking and utter disinterest in seeing any proof whatsoever they got OBL. Boobus don't arrive at conclusions like other creatures. If the government says something, then that is true to them. No lack of evidence/evidence to the contrary will convince him otherwise, as a result of the thick skull that is nearly impervious to logic. Also notice the blind patriotism he exhibits and complete lack of political awareness when he asks what China has done lately. They funded the enitre war and as a result now own his entire country, yet the boobus remains blissfully unaware.

LOL good one, now make a video

[PatriotOne]

*read in Steve Irwin's voice*

Crikey, what we have here is what is known as the Boobus Americanus. Very common in these parts, but a truly extraordinary specimen nontheless. Notice the distinctive lack of critical thinking and utter disinterest in seeing any proof whatsoever they got OBL. Boobus don't arrive at conclusions like other creatures. If the government says something, then that is true to them. No lack of evidence/evidence to the contrary will convince him otherwise, as a result of the thick skull that is nearly impervious to logic. Also notice the blind patriotism he exhibits and complete lack of political awareness when he asks what China has done lately. They funded the enitre war and as a result now own his entire country, yet the boobus remains blissfully unaware.

lmao! +rep.

[nobody's_hero]

President Bush made a speech directed at Iraq right before the war started where he said that it was all about Saddam, and nothing else. If Bush had left Iraq right after Saddam was captured, Bush would be considered a hero right now (in general, not to everyone). The rebellions and violence didn't start until after Bush stayed after capturing Saddam.

Yes. I distinctly remember Bush saying "Osama bin Laden is not my main concern." That was the first red flag that went up in my mind that this war was not about 9/11, even before I'd heard of Ron Paul.

[awake]

He needed to be rushed into the sea...LMAO. Anonymous DNA Confirmation.

[pahs1994]

i put yes for now but i would have liked a 3rd choice i think its too early to have an opinion either way.

[Bodhi]

i put yes for now but i would have liked a 3rd choice i think its too early to have an opinion either way.

I don't know what you are expecting to be anounced, they "burried" the body at sea.

[Corey]

ok I had a bad day at work with the rubes celebrating this crap, like they just won a high school football game.

But this poll, and some of of my friends, have convinced me that people really are getting it, slowly but surely. :)

[pahs1994]

I don't know what you are expecting to be anounced, they "burried" the body at sea.
pictures, video i dunno... I don't think wanting to see something before forming an opinion is any sillier than assuming that the guy was dead for ten years with no evidence to prove that either

[Mini-Me]

I'll just register my "No opinion" opinion here, since there's no poll option. Not only do I not know, but the waters are already so muddy with information, misinformation, and disinformation that I don't think I'll ever be confident in an opinion. No matter what your baseline assumptions are or how much you buy into the official story, there are questions, doubts, inconsistencies, etc. at every stage of the story:

Did he die years ago? Was he killed last week? Was he killed yesterday? Did he fire back? Oh, there's photo evidence! Oh, the photos were faked, but too late now, since most people will continue believing them. Was he buried at sea? Was anyone buried at sea? Why was the house burned down?

It's just like 9/11: There are so many red herrings and so much contradictory information that your only choices are to swallow the official story, randomly assume some conspiratorial permutation, go insane digging deeper, or decide, "Something is being covered up and obfuscated, but we can only speculate about what it is or the extent of the lie."

[pcosmar]

pictures, video i dunno... I don't think wanting to see something before forming an opinion is any sillier than assuming that the guy was dead for ten years with no evidence to prove that either
The "guy" had a known medical history. Had been treated (in France I think) and required Dialysis.
Not many Dialysis Clinics in the mountains of Afghanistan.
Find which clinics treated him for the last 10 years. Prove he was alive, before you believe a claim that he was killed.

[Bodhi]

pictures, video i dunno... I don't think wanting to see something before forming an opinion is any sillier than assuming that the guy was dead for ten years with no evidence to prove that either

I don't think you will be seeing any videos of the actual take down, as far as pictures, I can't wait to see what they provide. The very fact however, that they burried the body at sea, in my opionion speaks volumes. Really? the US government finally bags OBL and then dumps the body in the sea.

[CuseRonPaul]

At first I thought "who cares, he's been a boogeyman for a decade now". But after reading up on stuff that came out while I was asleep, my reaction was "wait, what? This doesn't add up whatsoever". I don't know what happened, but a major part of the story is fabricated and I am pretty damn confident of that.

[pahs1994]

The "guy" had a known medical history. Had been treated (in France I think) and required Dialysis.
Not many Dialysis Clinics in the mountains of Afghanistan.
Find which clinics treated him for the last 10 years. Prove he was alive, before you believe a claim that he was killed.

Read my post, i don't believe any claim yet. But you cannot prove he was dead either. As far as the Dialysis, if in fact he built a 1 million dollar facility and the Pakistani govt was right next to it (Seemingly not caring that he was there). It is not a far stretch to believe that he can buy the equipment that he required. Like i said though, i am not drinking the govt koolaid or hopping on the conspiracy bandwagon until i see something. But i fear Mini-me is right, i will probably always have no opinion on this matter because in this day and age there is no way to know anything for sure. Events can be faked or fakes can be made to discredit any real evidence. it is just too murky.

[Depressed Liberator]

Of course he's dead. Fucking Christ, do you guys honestly think they would just announce he's dead? Never mind whether or not you believe he's done what he's done in his life, but at the very least you should understand that the person is fucking dead.

[CuseRonPaul]

Of course he's dead. Fucking Christ, do you guys honestly think they would just announce he's dead? Never mind whether or not you believe he's done what he's done in his life, but at the very least you should understand that the person is fucking dead.

I think the vast majority of people think he's dead, but most aren't buying that he died in the manner we're being told.

[South Park Fan]

Having several family members in the medical field requires me to take this news with a grain of salt. The doctors in my family refer to dialysis as a "five-year death sentence." Put on top of that that bin Laden was in poor health in 2001 and that he was a diabetic with lung problems (two more strikes against his longevity), and the chances of a man with so much going against him medically living almost ten years are astronomical, even leaving aside the fact that he was being hunted in the mountains all this time.

EDIT: Additionally, the fact that the picture has been exposed as a Photoshop of an old picture of bin Laden and that the body was quickly disposed of in the ocean adds reason to be suspicious of the official story.

[rnestam]

Booooring

[ClayTrainor]

Having several family members in the medical field requires me to take this news with a grain of salt. The doctors in my family refer to dialysis as a "five-year death sentence." Put on top of that that bin Laden was in poor health in 2001 and that he was a diabetic with lung problems (two more strikes against his longevity), and the chances of a man with so much going against him medically living almost ten years are astronomical, even leaving aside the fact that he was being hunted in the mountains all this time.

Sounds about right. :)


http://www.ehow.com/about_5507068_long-people-live-kidney-dialysis.html

The National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases reports the dialysis survival rate at close to 80 percent through one year, 64 percent through two years, 33 percent after five years and 10 percent through 10 years.

[tpreitzel]

ok I had a bad day at work with the rubes celebrating this crap, like they just won a high school football game.

But this poll, and some of of my friends, have convinced me that people really are getting it, slowly but surely. :)

Need a break today? Get away from the conditioned masses.... I do the same thing as the herd will lead you right off a cliff.

[pcosmar]

Read my post, i don't believe any claim yet. But you cannot prove he was dead either. As far as the Dialysis, if in fact he built a 1 million dollar facility and the Pakistani govt was right next to it (Seemingly not caring that he was there). It is not a far stretch to believe that he can buy the equipment that he required. Like i said though, i am not drinking the govt koolaid or hopping on the conspiracy bandwagon until i see something. But i fear Mini-me is right, i will probably always have no opinion on this matter because in this day and age there is no way to know anything for sure. Events can be faked or fakes can be made to discredit any real evidence. it is just too murky.
I have no reason to believe he built a mansion. I have no reason to believe that he was even in Pakistan, though he may possibly been.
I suspect that rumors were circulated by Pakistan Intelligence to milk more funding from the US.

And no, I can't prove that he was or is dead either. I suspect he was dead long ago.
I have absolutely no reason to believe anything that comes out of the White House. Especially when it is accompanied by a media circus.

[qh4dotcom]

What would be proof to you at this point?

Doing a video of the corpse with a newspaper dated May 1, 2011 and a headline of something that happened in May

[South Park Fan]

Sounds about right. :)

Keep in mind that bin Laden probably didn't just get kidney failure right when the U.S. invaded Afghanistan. Chances are that he probably had it for a substantial amount of time before the attack, and when his other medical externalities are taken into account, the probability is likely much lower than 10%

[Bodhi]

Events can be faked or fakes can be made to discredit any real evidence. it is just too murky.

I agree events can be faked or fakes can be made, but is this case that murky when they throw the body into the sea? No red flags for you?

[tpreitzel]

If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit. If evidence is destroyed, then it's a government ploy.

[pahs1994]

I agree events can be faked or fakes can be made, but is this case that murky when they throw the body into the sea? No red flags for you?

Of course. But that doesn't prove anything. Sure it seems strange and gives me doubts, but unlike most people here, i'm resisting the urge to just declare that this is a 100% fake event with nothing to go on but my own feelings/opinion on the matter.

[tpreitzel]

Of course. But that doesn't prove anything. Sure it seems strange and gives me doubts, but unlike most people here, i'm resisting the urge to just declare that this is a 100% fake event with nothing to go on but my own feelings/opinion on the matter.

Wrong. Actually, destroying evidence proves (once again) that the government has something to hide especially when the same modus operandi occurs time and time and time again.... Oh, no, we have to put this horrible tragedy behind us so let's build a park and bury the evidence. Oh, no, we have to put this horrible tragedy behind us so let's ship the evidence (steel) to far away China and bury it. Oh, now, our mission wasn't to capture the evidence (Osama), just to kill him and consequently destroy any tangible evidence. Hearsay and testimony is good enough .... BS

[Golding]

Whether he's dead now or dead years ago is irrelevant to me. The bottom line is that there's little disagreement that he's dead. One way or another, that means that the spectre of Osama as America's face of the enemy is a thing of the past. Will that mean the end of America's adventures in the Middle East? Will that mean they will work to build up a new boogieman? Will America continue its war against a tactic without the use of an identifiable face?

I completely agree that this "at sea burial" stuff sounds fishy at best. But all that I mentioned above seems more important than when and how Bin Laden died.

[nate895]

Having several family members in the medical field requires me to take this news with a grain of salt. The doctors in my family refer to dialysis as a "five-year death sentence." Put on top of that that bin Laden was in poor health in 2001 and that he was a diabetic with lung problems (two more strikes against his longevity), and the chances of a man with so much going against him medically living almost ten years are astronomical, even leaving aside the fact that he was being hunted in the mountains all this time.

EDIT: Additionally, the fact that the picture has been exposed as a Photoshop of an old picture of bin Laden and that the body was quickly disposed of in the ocean adds reason to be suspicious of the official story.

My mother lived on dialysis, the same kind Osama was on, for 13 years (intermittently, one 6.5 year stint followed by another 6 years after her kidney transplant failed). Peritoneal dialysis (the kind Osama and my mother were on) is different than hemodialysis. Hemodiaysis is a death sentence in 5 years, peritoneal can last decades if it is done right.

[tpreitzel]

Now, the government is planning on releasing a video.... nice of them eh? ;)


WHERE'S THE FLIPPING BODY? eh? Oh, you cut Osama into pieces and stuffed him into bottles as a message for another time and shore? WHERE'S THE FLIPPING BODY?

[KramerDSP]

Now, the government is planning on releasing a video.... nice of them eh? ;)


WHERE'S THE FLIPPING BODY? eh? Oh, you cut Osama into pieces and stuffed him into bottles as a message for another time and shore? WHERE'S THE FLIPPING BODY?

Link?

[pahs1994]

Wrong. Actually, destroying evidence proves (once again) that the government has something to hide especially when the same modus operandi occurs time and time and time again.... Oh, no, we have to put this horrible tragedy behind us so let's build a park and bury the evidence. Oh, no, we have to put this horrible tragedy behind us so let's ship the evidence (steel) to far away China and bury it. Oh, now, our mission wasn't to capture the evidence (Osama), just to kill him and consequently destroy any tangible evidence. Hearsay and testimony is good enough .... BS
Once again, i will form my opinion based on facts. I realize i will never get the facts and it is very possible that one of the thousands of theories out there is correct. You are more than welcome to assume what you want, but don't tell me i am wrong try to pass your opinion as fact or backed by facts, because it is not. Sorry that is so hard to understand.

[tpreitzel]

Once again, i will form my opinion based on facts. I realize i will never get the facts and it is very possible that one of the thousands of theories out there is correct. You are more than welcome to assume what you want, but don't tell me i am wrong try to pass your opinion as fact or backed by facts, because it is not. Sorry that is so hard to understand.

You don't have ANY facts, because the only real FACT is the currently missing BODY and the fact that in the last 2 major disasters in the US, the government quickly destroyed pertinent physical evidence... a FACT. Get it? WHERE'S THE FLIPPING BODY?

[tpreitzel]

Link?

On the Drudge Report ...

[Dr.3D]

You don't have ANY facts, because the only real FACT is the currently missing BODY and the fact that in the last 2 major disasters in the US, the government quickly destroyed pertinent physical evidence... a FACT. Get it? WHERE'S THE FLIPPING BODY?

From what we've been told, I would gather it is supposed to be on the bottom of the Arabian sea.

[Andrew-Austin]

I don't care really. Because it won't prove to be that big of a game changing event, and I can't know whether or not the story is true or not. You can't use logic to come to conclusion on the matter, and just deduce what it going on.. You kinda need facts, which we won't get enough of to know the truth.

So I don't share the same Scooby-Doo like interest that so many people here seem to have:

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/6/5/129202346134630700.jpg

The most we can do is speculate on how this will change American voter's attitudes on the continuation of the various wars.

[mport1]

I couldn't wait to see all the new conspiracy theories about this. Luckily I have not been disappointed with all the great stuff by AJ and the rest. He is always good for a laugh.

[pahs1994]

You don't have ANY facts, because the only real FACT is the currently missing BODY and the fact that in the last 2 major disasters in the US, the government quickly destroyed pertinent physical evidence... a FACT. Get it? WHERE'S THE FLIPPING BODY?

i ask the same questions as you bro. we are all here for the same reasons so chill out. im just not going on the conspiracy bandwagon within 24 hours of an event with very conflicting info coming from all directions. Id like to learn more as does everyone else. NO NEED TO BE HOSTILE

[PitViper]

it doesn't matter weather he is dead or alive, if it happened or not. What matters is that this "event" is being used to rein in the minds of the populace to more easily conform to the will of others. . . that is what the concern should be, IMHO. I mean just look how many people are talking about it, everywhere!
now they can be fed . . . guided. Most of the people talking all over the globe simply parrot back what they heard (were told) like non thinking robots spreading a virus, blind leading blind. A small percent actually knows facts behind the characters and events transpiring . . . but they can be fed special food . . . a smaller percent digs deeper and actually forms their own unique opinions outside of the machine.. .
the first types are the clone soldiers of the emperor, unable to be moved into free self generated thought by any fact, formula, or argument.

. . . however, the last type is the hope of the future . . .

.

[Andrew-Austin]

I couldn't wait to see all the new conspiracy theories about this. Luckily I have not been disappointed with all the great stuff by AJ and the rest. He is always good for a laugh.

Alex Jones is on the case of the mysterious and alleged death of Osama bin Laden, along with his crew Scooby Doo and a host of internet experts who can logically deduce why the US government conjured up this story now, what they have to gain, and what they are distracting us from.

http://vwkombi.com/photos/vanfest-2005/Images/4.jpg

[jmhudak17]

Alex Jones is on the case of the mysterious and alleged death of Osama bin Laden, along with his crew Scooby Doo and a host of internet experts who can logically deduce why the US government conjured up this story now, what they have to gain, and what they are distracting us from.

http://vwkombi.com/photos/vanfest-2005/Images/4.jpg

i literally lol'd. great post.

[osan]

Just checking the collective IQ of the forum.

OK, this thread is humming along at a fast clip, so in case this has been raised by another already, pardon my slow reading habit.

There are three possibilities that stand out with regard to the question at hand: either he has recently died, he died prior, or he isn't dead at all.

If we assume Obama... erm, I mean, OSAMA, is in fact no longer among we the living, and if in fact he died a while back, the central question that arises would not be why his death was concealed (answer to that is elementary), but why is he being announced as having been recently killed? What purpose may this serve and who might stand to benefit from it?

It could be a "reelect me 'cuz I be bad" ploy by Osama... erm, I mean OBAMA, but the timing seems far less than optimal for that, so I'd scratch it for now. What does that leave? Chasing Osama has been one of the cornerstone justifications for spending a billion dollars a day in Eye-Rack and Afghan. Killing him off in this manner would seem a bit of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, would it not? If so, then why would so valuable an asset in the war for public mind-share be retired? There would have to be a very significant reason - but what?

One particularly paranoid notion that crosses my mind is that of the possible utility of martyrdom for those holding the reins of the US military. If we announce to the world that we succeeded in knocking off the sacred Osama, no doubt certain elements of the Muslim world are going to go wholesale native. If I were in charge of all of this mess and if in fact the protection of the people and interests of the United States were my foremost goal, after killing Bin Laden I would swear everyone to eternal secrecy precisely to deny the fanatics their martyr. If, however, my goal is something other than the interests and safety of the American people, making this announcement would be handing them their martyr on a silver platter. This move seems ever so transparently in contravention to anything sensible that I cannot help but question the motives of those making it.

The next question, of course, is "why?" The obvious and perhaps even the correct answer is "power". By martyring OBL, we provide our enemies with an icon that serves to raise and maintain the drive to make war against the infidel. This, of course, guarantees standing, low-intensity warfare punctuated with occasional burst activity for many decades to come. The threat brings the wagons at home into a circle and makes the crushing of any dissenting voice far less onerous in the mind of Johnny Q. Such oppression would, in fact, most likely be welcomed by many because of the false sense of security and order it provides the intellectually bereft nervous nellie.

Of course, it is entirely possible that he really did die just the other day. Any takers?

[mport1]

Alex Jones is on the case of the mysterious and alleged death of Osama bin Laden, along with his crew Scooby Doo and a host of internet experts who can logically deduce why the US government conjured up this story now, what they have to gain, and what they are distracting us from.

http://vwkombi.com/photos/vanfest-2005/Images/4.jpg

Haha, great post. Has there been any major news story that has happened over the past decade that AJ hasn't created some crazy conspiracy for? He sure does like to create mysteries for himself to solve. Maybe he should become a science fiction author instead.

[jmhudak17]

Haha, great post. Has there been any major news story that has happened over the past decade that AJ hasn't created some crazy conspiracy for? He sure does like to create mysteries for himself to solve. Maybe he should become a science fiction author instead.

I like his political views, but I wish he just didn't think everything was a conspiracy when his evidence is generally very weak, relying on circumstantial evidence and non-credible sources that sometimes believe the world is run by evil reptilians.

[South Park Fan]

OK, this thread is humming along at a fast clip, so in case this has been raised by another already, pardon my slow reading habit.

There are three possibilities that stand out with regard to the question at hand: either he has recently died, he died prior, or he isn't dead at all.

If we assume Obama... erm, I mean, OSAMA, is in fact no longer among we the living, and if in fact he died a while back, the central question that arises would not be why his death was concealed (answer to that is elementary), but why is he being announced as having been recently killed? What purpose may this serve and who might stand to benefit from it?

It could be a "reelect me 'cuz I be bad" ploy by Osama... erm, I mean OBAMA, but the timing seems far less than optimal for that, so I'd scratch it for now. What does that leave? Chasing Osama has been one of the cornerstone justifications for spending a billion dollars a day in Eye-Rack and Afghan. Killing him off in this manner would seem a bit of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, would it not? If so, then why would so valuable an asset in the war for public mind-share be retired? There would have to be a very significant reason - but what?

One particularly paranoid notion that crosses my mind is that of the possible utility of martyrdom for those holding the reins of the US military. If we announce to the world that we succeeded in knocking off the sacred Osama, no doubt certain elements of the Muslim world are going to go wholesale native. If I were in charge of all of this mess and if in fact the protection of the people and interests of the United States were my foremost goal, after killing Bin Laden I would swear everyone to eternal secrecy precisely to deny the fanatics their martyr. If, however, my goal is something other than the interests and safety of the American people, making this announcement would be handing them their martyr on a silver platter. This move seems ever so transparently in contravention to anything sensible that I cannot help but question the motives of those making it.

The next question, of course, is "why?" The obvious and perhaps even the correct answer is "power". By martyring OBL, we provide our enemies with an icon that serves to raise and maintain the drive to make war against the infidel. This, of course, guarantees standing, low-intensity warfare punctuated with occasional burst activity for many decades to come. The threat brings the wagons at home into a circle and makes the crushing of any dissenting voice far less onerous in the mind of Johnny Q. Such oppression would, in fact, most likely be welcomed by many because of the false sense of security and order it provides the intellectually bereft nervous nellie.

Of course, it is entirely possible that he really did die just the other day. Any takers?

Interesting, I hadn't considered it that way; that they would intentionally cause blowback so as to justify their agenda, rather than creating the problem to be solved.

[osan]

YWHERE'S THE FLIPPING BODY?

Presumably at the bottom of the sea. Well, A body, anyhow.

[Mini-Me]

Osan, I had the same thoughts as well. I don't believe for a second that the military-industrial complex is too dense to understand blowback; on the contrary, I think they know exactly how to create endless business for themselves. This is completely aside from the truth regarding Osama's death.

[vita3]

What are the chance we knew exactly where he was & this "takeout" could have happaned @ anytime?

[vita3]

What are the chance we knew exactly where he was & this "takeout" could have happaned @ anytime?

[PatriotOne]

OK, this thread is humming along at a fast clip, so in case this has been raised by another already, pardon my slow reading habit.

There are three possibilities that stand out with regard to the question at hand: either he has recently died, he died prior, or he isn't dead at all.

If we assume Obama... erm, I mean, OSAMA, is in fact no longer among we the living, and if in fact he died a while back, the central question that arises would not be why his death was concealed (answer to that is elementary), but why is he being announced as having been recently killed? What purpose may this serve and who might stand to benefit from it?

It could be a "reelect me 'cuz I be bad" ploy by Osama... erm, I mean OBAMA, but the timing seems far less than optimal for that, so I'd scratch it for now. What does that leave? Chasing Osama has been one of the cornerstone justifications for spending a billion dollars a day in Eye-Rack and Afghan. Killing him off in this manner would seem a bit of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, would it not? If so, then why would so valuable an asset in the war for public mind-share be retired? There would have to be a very significant reason - but what?

One particularly paranoid notion that crosses my mind is that of the possible utility of martyrdom for those holding the reins of the US military. If we announce to the world that we succeeded in knocking off the sacred Osama, no doubt certain elements of the Muslim world are going to go wholesale native. If I were in charge of all of this mess and if in fact the protection of the people and interests of the United States were my foremost goal, after killing Bin Laden I would swear everyone to eternal secrecy precisely to deny the fanatics their martyr. If, however, my goal is something other than the interests and safety of the American people, making this announcement would be handing them their martyr on a silver platter. This move seems ever so transparently in contravention to anything sensible that I cannot help but question the motives of those making it.

The next question, of course, is "why?" The obvious and perhaps even the correct answer is "power". By martyring OBL, we provide our enemies with an icon that serves to raise and maintain the drive to make war against the infidel. This, of course, guarantees standing, low-intensity warfare punctuated with occasional burst activity for many decades to come. The threat brings the wagons at home into a circle and makes the crushing of any dissenting voice far less onerous in the mind of Johnny Q. Such oppression would, in fact, most likely be welcomed by many because of the false sense of security and order it provides the intellectually bereft nervous nellie.

Of course, it is entirely possible that he really did die just the other day. Any takers?

I like how you are thinking. I don't have a crystal ball but I can think of many reasons this would be advantagous to "them".

1. Their military budget is threatened and they needed to scare those in congress wanting cuts (think about how they managed to pass the banker bailout packages with threats of economy collapse). A few future blowback activities (real or contrived) would serve the purpose of swaying congress.

2. Obama and Co. needed a win so the people had a reason to support him in 2012.

3. Not bagging OBL after a trillion dollar war was becoming a liability as opposed to a justification.

4. Reignite the people's patriotism and their will for war (one just has to watch the video of the buffoons celebrating to see how well that worked out).

5. Reignite the patriotism of those serving in the military and their will for war.

6. Further stirring the middle east hornets nest in hopes of major retaliation....."they" want WWIII.

7. If # 6 doesn't happen.....they will be performing false flag ops in the US themselves in the near future and will be saying they happened in retaliation of killing OBL.

8. All of the above plus a bunch of other perks.

[Joseph]

I did not vote in the poll. After reading the posts concerning Bin Laden over the last 24 hours, I am going to make a prediction.

Bin Laden conspiracy theorists are going to cost Ron Paul the presidency. That is my prediction.

I don't know or care if he is dead now or died in 2001 or died in 2003 or died in 2007. It really makes no difference to the issue of needing to end these horrendous wars. Our focus should be on bring the troops home from all these needless wars, not bickering over non-issues.

Trying to spread this idea that the official story is not true is not a smart idea. Even if they lied through their teeth, it really does not matter at this point. We can sort through the rest of the lies and political garbage that our government tries to give us later after Ron Paul is elected. Trying to spread that stuff now or during the campaign will only hurt our cause.

[Travlyr]

I did not vote in the poll. After reading the posts concerning Bin Laden over the last 24 hours, I am going to make a prediction.

Bin Laden conspiracy theorists are going to cost Ron Paul the presidency. That is my prediction.

I don't know or care if he is dead now or died in 2001 or died in 2003 or died in 2007. It really makes no difference to the issue of needing to end these horrendous wars. Our focus should be on bring the troops home from all these needless wars, not bickering over non-issues.

Trying to spread this idea that the official story is not true is not a smart idea. Even if they lied through their teeth, it really does not matter at this point. We can sort through the rest of the lies and political garbage that our government tries to give us later after Ron Paul is elected. Trying to spread that stuff now or during the campaign will only hurt our cause.

I also did not vote in this poll because I do not yet know the truth. However, I am fully convinced that the truth is much harder to hide in 2011 than it was in 2001 because the truth telling power of the Internet is upon us.

My prediction is that the relentless truth seeking conspiracy theorists will be the ones putting Ron Paul in the White House because the truth is what sets us free.

[PatriotOne]

Bin Laden conspiracy theorists are going to cost Ron Paul the presidency. That is my prediction.



My prediction. Morons who swallow the lies will vote for the next warmongering president and cost RP the Presidency.

[Bruno]

My prediction. Morons who swallow the lies will vote for the next warmongering president and cost RP the Presidency.

+ 1

[juleswin]

I did not vote in the poll. After reading the posts concerning Bin Laden over the last 24 hours, I am going to make a prediction.

Bin Laden conspiracy theorists are going to cost Ron Paul the presidency. That is my prediction.

I don't know or care if he is dead now or died in 2001 or died in 2003 or died in 2007. It really makes no difference to the issue of needing to end these horrendous wars. Our focus should be on bring the troops home from all these needless wars, not bickering over non-issues.

Trying to spread this idea that the official story is not true is not a smart idea. Even if they lied through their teeth, it really does not matter at this point. We can sort through the rest of the lies and political garbage that our government tries to give us later after Ron Paul is elected. Trying to spread that stuff now or during the campaign will only hurt our cause.

Take a stroll to the liberal democratic underground and see how they are taking it, even people in my community college class are doubting this dead and mind you, most of these people do not even know what a conspiracy theory is. So please stop trying to make it into a Ron Paul supporter thing. People just want to see more evidence and thats why I voted "No"

Reagan said it best "trust but verify"

[juleswin]

My prediction. Morons who swallow the lies will vote for the next warmongering president and cost RP the Presidency.

nice one. It amazing how many people are buying the govt story from a group of people know for their distrust of the govt.

[LeJimster]

This is no different to the 9/11 conspiracy which Ron doesn't publicly back. The masses are going to believe the Obama lie. They'll swallow it, so you have to roll with it and use it to your own advantage as best you can. Now Osama is dead, bring the troops home or.. Ask the question how a small team infiltrated Osama's compound when 10 years of bombing Afghanistan and Pakistan did nothing.

One day I want to see this fraud exposed on all the newspapers with the headline:

"Obama bin Lying"

[PatriotOne]

nice one. It amazing how many people are buying the govt story from a group of people know for their distrust of the govt.

I am encouraged by the poll numbers though. If this had happened back in 2007, the poll numbers would have been flipped in the other direction and the forum mob would be calling for the hanging of the tin foil hatted conspiracy theorists here. The forum is getting more savvy to this kind of psyops.

[jmdrake]

This is no different to the 9/11 conspiracy which Ron doesn't publicly back. The masses are going to believe the Obama lie. They'll swallow it, so you have to roll with it and use it to your own advantage as best you can. Now Osama is dead, bring the troops home or.. Ask the question how a small team infiltrated Osama's compound when 10 years of bombing Afghanistan and Pakistan did nothing.

One day I want to see this fraud exposed on all the newspapers with the headline:

"Obama bin Lying"

Yeah. Except this time people are asking questions immediately. I'm hearing "good ole boys" calling in to talk radio and asking "Why did they get rid of the body so fast? Why no pictures? And who gives a flip about Islamic tradition?"

[specsaregood]

Yeah. Except this time people are asking questions immediately. I'm hearing "good ole boys" calling in to talk radio and asking "Why did they get rid of the body so fast? Why no pictures? And who gives a flip about Islamic tradition?"

Yeah, Dr. Paul brought this up in the NPR interview and asked, "Why does the government invite conspiracy theories with their actions" then compared it to Hussein and how there were pictures and such. Then brought up how he didn't think it was possible to do a DNA confirmation so quickly, to which he says the administration backtracked on that claim.

[moostraks]

I like how you are thinking. I don't have a crystal ball but I can think of many reasons this would be advantagous to "them".

1. Their military budget is threatened and they needed to scare those in congress wanting cuts (think about how they managed to pass the banker bailout packages with threats of economy collapse). A few future blowback activities (real or contrived) would serve the purpose of swaying congress.

2. Obama and Co. needed a win so the people had a reason to support him in 2012.

3. Not bagging OBL after a trillion dollar war was becoming a liability as opposed to a justification.

4. Reignite the people's patriotism and their will for war (one just has to watch the video of the buffoons celebrating to see how well that worked out).

5. Reignite the patriotism of those serving in the military and their will for war.

6. Further stirring the middle east hornets nest in hopes of major retaliation....."they" want WWIII.

7. If # 6 doesn't happen.....they will be performing false flag ops in the US themselves in the near future and will be saying they happened in retaliation of killing OBL.

8. All of the above plus a bunch of other perks.

I think we will have to sit back and see where the msm tries to push public perception in order to know what the benefit is of disclosure of the terrorist boogey man's death. I think he was no longer providing the steam they needed and too many people had come to assume he was dead for whatever reason. The fact they were so quick to inform the public that this increases the terror alert status lets us at least know it wasn't to decrease military or security budgets. They are instead increasing the paranoia so look for possibly even more invasive so called security measures.

Another possibility is to use Bin Laden's death as motivational propaganda for Libya and Qaddafi. Apparently this is not completely far fetched because in pondering a brief search turned up :If US killed Osama bin Laden, ask Libyans, why not assassinate Qaddafi? http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2011/0502/If-US-killed-Osama-bin-Laden-ask-Libyans-why-not-assassinate-Qaddafi

Libya seems to be somewhat of a mirror image to Pakistan only a more accelerated version.

[jmdrake]

I am encouraged by the poll numbers though. If this had happened back in 2007, the poll numbers would have been flipped in the other direction and the forum mob would be calling for the hanging of the tin foil hatted conspiracy theorists here. The forum is getting more savvy to this kind of psyops.

Actually 9/11 truth polls have typically gone with the truthers, but not to such a wide margin. What's different from 2007 is that these "deather" threads aren't being immediately shuffled off to "hot topics" like 'truther" threads have traditionally been and how "birther" threads were until maybe a few months ago. Now that Ron Paul has on the record raised some of the same questions[1] about the OBL killing, the "shut up or you'll hurt Ron Paul" crowd won't have a leg to stand on with this particular "conspiracy theory". The consensus seems to be gelling around "It's okay to demand proof, just don't put forward your own theory claiming you know exactly what happened like OBL's been on ice in Crawford Texas." I'm cool with that.

[1] See: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?290578-Reminder-Ron-Paul-will-be-on-NPR-tomorrow

[GuerrillaXXI]

I am encouraged by the poll numbers though. If this had happened back in 2007, the poll numbers would have been flipped in the other direction and the forum mob would be calling for the hanging of the tin foil hatted conspiracy theorists here. The forum is getting more savvy to this kind of psyops.As a relative newbie to this forum, I'm glad to hear that.

I'm not talking about anyone here or even OBL's death specifically, but in general I get really irked by people who use the "tin foil hat" line in knee-jerk fashion on anyone who expresses suspicion about a government coverup. Such people are willfully blind at best and, more probably, complete idiots -- although they undoubtedly see themselves as being "more-reasonable-than-thou" and "levelheaded."

The reason it's idiotic to dismiss the possibility of a conspiracy outright is that the US government is KNOWN to have engaged in conspiracies in the past. This isn't even controversial, and many of these conspiracies were more egregiously evil than faking OBL's death would be.

How many Americans know that US officials once plotted to stage terrorist attacks, possibly including the killings of innocent people, and then blaming those attacks on Castro to fool the public into supporting a US invasion of Cuba? The actual declassified papers pertaining to this plot, known as "Operation Northwoods," are freely available online.


James Bamford summarizes Northwoods as follows:

Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Bertstare and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

How many know that the US government used to conduct experiments on innocent US and Canadian citizens without the knowledge or consent of the latter?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

How many know about COINTELPRO?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

Or the Office of Special Plans that manipulated the evidence to justify an invasion of Iraq?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Plans

How many remember how the Pentagon's attempt to spin the recovery of Jessica Lynch into propaganda?


Initial media reports on Lynch's recovery in Iraq were incorrect. Lynch, along with major media outlets, fault the U.S. government for creating the story as part of the Pentagon's propaganda effort.[2][3][4][5] Jim Wilkinson is credited for fabricating the government narrative.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Lynch

These are just a few of the conspiracies that have actually become public knowledge. Is it sensible to assume that there have been no others? No, it is not. Most likely, these are only the tip of the iceberg.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those who believe the official story about OBL's killing. I think the story is highly suspicious, but maybe reasonable people can disagree about that. Where reasonable people cannot disagree is on the question of US government conspiracies in general. There HAVE been such conspiracies, and that is an indisputable fact. No doubt that if Operation Northwoods had been carried out and anyone had suggested it was a government conspiracy, those people would have been labeled "kooks" and "tinfoil hat-wearers," too.

[BlackTerrel]

Only a fool would believe everything the MSM tells them


Dead since 12-2001
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.

However we can accept as Gospel a FoxNews story based on a story in the Pakistan Observer who quoted an unnamed Taliban leader....


... I believe this is known as cherry picking.

[osan]

One particularly paranoid notion that crosses my mind is that of the possible utility of martyrdom for those holding the reins of the US military. If we announce to the world that we succeeded in knocking off the sacred Osama, no doubt certain elements of the Muslim world are going to go wholesale native.

I neglected to mention an equally likely possibility: the expectation by portions of the non-Muslim world that these elements will go apey. That is all that is needed. Do note that thus far there has been little outward indication of rage, even by those we would come to expect to make such expressions. Perhaps Osama was not quite so universally admired? No problem. The "west" has been sufficiently led to expect a contingent of little towel-headed apes to go loco, at least leaveing open the option for some operation or even just the introduction of a new set of assertions to justify further usurpations of power and incursions against personal freedom.
These days such assertions appear to be all that is required, the public mainly no longer even questioning such maneuvers.

It appears that the road has been well paved for the continuing march into fully abject and effectively chattel-status slavery. At times, the only questions remaining to me are whether any boundary of tolerance even exists anymore and if it does, what will be required by those in power to break a log jam? How far would they go in the event of truly significant push-back? Personally, I suspect that nothing is off the table. The higher the threat against the globalist agenda, the higher the risks "they" would be willing to take to keep the reins of power firmly in hand.

But who knows, perhaps I have it all wrong and the world is actually run by a group of benevolent people - or perhaps no such group even exists and the world is trudging along from day to day in an uncoordinated, haphazard manner as the stories of the mainstream media would suggest.

[remaxjon]

The video the conspiracy junkies don't want you to see! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czzgOr4vlUE

[remaxjon]

Shouldn't this thread be moved to hot topics? I know many of you here are really into the conspiracy stuff and think folks like myself are sheep and stupid and buy the government lies and all the other good things you say but most people don't think that way. If people stumble on this site from a search about Ron Paul and see this kind of poll they may never look at him again. I'm not saying that is right or smart or even what the majority would do but I know there is a good chance I would have back in 2007 if I knew so many conspiracy theory people were into Ron Paul. Just my opinion

[aGameOfThrones]

Shouldn't this thread be moved to hot topics? I know many of you here are really into the conspiracy stuff and think folks like myself are sheep and stupid and buy the government lies and all the other good things you say but most people don't think that way. If people stumble on this site from a search about Ron Paul and see this kind of poll they may never look at him again. I'm not saying that is right or smart or even what the majority would do but I know there is a good chance I would have back in 2007 if I knew so many conspiracy theory people were into Ron Paul. Just my opinion


You move to hot topics!

[pcosmar]

.


... I believe this is known as cherry picking.

Not really, since it was known that he was being treated for a Terminal illness and without constant advanced medical treatment he would die.
And also, With Advanced Medical treatment is life expectancy was less than 5 years.
It is unlikely he survived hiding in caves for more than a month.

Certainly not for Ten years,
The US has been chasing a ghost and keeping that ghost alive to further it's aims.

[moostraks]

Shouldn't this thread be moved to hot topics? I know many of you here are really into the conspiracy stuff and think folks like myself are sheep and stupid and buy the government lies and all the other good things you say but most people don't think that way. If people stumble on this site from a search about Ron Paul and see this kind of poll they may never look at him again. I'm not saying that is right or smart or even what the majority would do but I know there is a good chance I would have back in 2007 if I knew so many conspiracy theory people were into Ron Paul. Just my opinion

No...because maybe some might want to see what truth if any lies within the issues which inspire those who are skeptical of the current media propaganda and will be thus inspired to research on their own just how many untruths the government has fed them through the very same media hype that is being worshiped right now. Using disparaging terms such as conspiracy theorist gives cover to the very same people who use obfuscatory reporting to confuse and frustrate the public into mindlessly cooperating with whatever authoritarian legislation they see fit to impose. By allowing open debate at least the subject can be disputed publicly on its merits rather than relegated to the dark crevices of a members only forum...

[remaxjon]

No...because maybe some might want to see what truth if any lies within the issues which inspire those who are skeptical of the current media propaganda and will be thus inspired to research on their own just how many untruths the government has fed them through the very same media hype that is being worshiped right now. Using disparaging terms such as conspiracy theorist gives cover to the very same people who use obfuscatory reporting to confuse and frustrate the public into mindlessly cooperating with whatever authoritarian legislation they see fit to impose. By allowing open debate at least the subject can be disputed publicly on its merits rather than relegated to the dark crevices of a members only forum...

I don't know how many times I said this on these forums in 2007 and others have also said many times does any of this help Ron Paul get elected? I don't think so. So often here people like yourself and many others have there own agenda to promote and that has nothing to do with political policy or helping liberty minded people get elected. The merits of a 9/11 conspiracy theory, the presidents birth cert, bin laden dead or alive, or if we have landed on the moon does not belong anywhere besides hot topics. This thread is general politics and debating a conspiracy theory is not politics.

[pcosmar]

This thread is general politics and debating a conspiracy theory is not politics.

NO,
This thread is discussing current news and affairs.
It is discussing the present political propaganda.

If you are unable to think past the lies being spewed, how are you going to come to a conclusion on who to vote for and why?

[remaxjon]

NO,
This thread is discussing current news and affairs.
It is discussing the present political propaganda.

If you are unable to think past the lies being spewed, how are you going to come to a conclusion on who to vote for and why?



this is a thread debating if the government is not telling the truth about the death of Bin Laden. That is a conspiracy theory thread. After Paul dropped out of the election I and many others left this forum because the truther stuff would just not go away. I'm back now because I want to help get Ron paul elected. This bin laden dead debate is just more truther stuff. No amount of evidence will ever satisfy many of you. Already there have been a ton of threads with this general theme. In my opinion these should all be moved. They are not political debates.

I can't tell you how many times I had to tell people in 2007 Ron Paul didn't think there was some kind of conspiracy on9/11. That I didn't think there was a conspiracy. This is more of that.

I don't enjoy being associated with you. I am because you are loud and feel a need to promote your own agenda. Main stream Republican voters don't like you and associate you with Ron Paul. Jesse Ventura and Alex Jones do not promote main stream political thought. Look at the way Rand was elected. He was elected because he avoided people like you like the plague. None of this debate is helpful.

[jmhudak17]

Not really, since it was known that he was being treated for a Terminal illness and without constant advanced medical treatment he would die.
And also, With Advanced Medical treatment is life expectancy was less than 5 years.
It is unlikely he survived hiding in caves for more than a month.

Certainly not for Ten years,
The US has been chasing a ghost and keeping that ghost alive to further it's aims.

It's cherry-picking based off of your own speculation (finding what fits into your theory).

[jmdrake]

this is a thread debating if the government is not telling the truth about the death of Bin Laden. That is a conspiracy theory thread. After Paul dropped out of the election I and many others left this forum because the truther stuff would just not go away. I'm back now because I want to help get Ron paul elected. This bin laden dead debate is just more truther stuff. No amount of evidence will ever satisfy many of you. Already there have been a ton of threads with this general theme. In my opinion these should all be moved. They are not political debates.

I can't tell you how many times I had to tell people in 2007 Ron Paul didn't think there was some kind of conspiracy on9/11. That I didn't think there was a conspiracy. This is more of that.

I don't enjoy being associated with you. I am because you are loud and feel a need to promote your own agenda. Main stream Republican voters don't like you and associate you with Ron Paul. Jesse Ventura and Alex Jones do not promote main stream political thought. Look at the way Rand was elected. He was elected because he avoided people like you like the plague. None of this debate is helpful.

Well I suppose you would be disappointed to find out that Ron Paul said the government is inviting the conspiracy theories in this case by not releasing evidence of OBLs death and that from a medical point of view what's being said about the DNA doesn't add up.

http://paulandventura2012.com/443/politics/ron-paul-on-the-death-of-osama-bin-laden/

“Why does our Government invite Conspiracy Theories all the time? I mean, why didn’t they show us pictures? No one questions Saddam Hussein’s death. They showed us pictures…… and I have a medical question, trying to confirm the timing. You know, I understand he was killed Sunday afternoon and by Sunday 9:00 it was announced that the President would speak, and they had DNA proof of the individual. To my knowledge, I didn’t know they could do DNA proof that quickly. Then they came back and they said well, we have facial features and we’ll get the results of the DNA later. It’s that confusion, and just hate to talk about it in detail until we know more about the information.”

[Travlyr]

I'm pretty sure that Ron Paul wants us to expose the truth ... that's what he has been doing for the last 50 years, or more.

[pcosmar]

It's cherry-picking based off of your own speculation (finding what fits into your theory).

No it is taking Known facts and separating the Media disinformation, and the government propaganda.

It was known that he was dying of Kidney failure and was on Dialysis. (with proper and constant care he had aprox 5 years)

The FBI after a full investigation could not connect him to 9/11 in any way. (ignored by the media)

The wars are not fighting "terrorists" but civil war in Iraq that we caused by removing Saddam, and tribes in Afghanistan that don't like foreign invaders in their country. (same as the Russians)

The "Osama Mastermind" myth has been kept going despite absolutely no evidence and no credible threat for years.
Several reported videos have been proven to be fake. The man hasn't been seen or heard from in 10 years.

[jmhudak17]

No it is taking Known facts and separating the Media disinformation, and the government propaganda.

It was known that he was dying of Kidney failure and was on Dialysis. (with proper and constant care he had aprox 5 years)

The FBI after a full investigation could not connect him to 9/11 in any way. (ignored by the media)

The wars are not fighting "terrorists" but civil war in Iraq that we caused by removing Saddam, and tribes in Afghanistan that don't like foreign invaders in their country. (same as the Russians)

The "Osama Mastermind" myth has been kept going despite absolutely no evidence and no credible threat for years.
Several reported videos have been proven to be fake. The man hasn't been seen or heard from in 10 years.

I don't know exactly how long Osama would have lived with the condition he had; I would need a doctor who actually examined him to say.

The FBI said they didn't have any hard evidence (fingerprints, DNA, paper trail, etc.). They never said they couldn't connect him in any way.

I'm against the Iraq War too, and I think we should have gone about hunting for Bin Laden in a different way that didn't involve trying to involve ourselves in nation building in Afghanistan.

Were any of these videos proven to be fake by a reputable source? Was there a consensus that the videos were fake? Did any experts say the videos were true?

[moostraks]

I don't know how many times I said this on these forums in 2007 and others have also said many times does any of this help Ron Paul get elected? I don't think so. So often here people like yourself and many others have there own agenda to promote and that has nothing to do with political policy or helping liberty minded people get elected. The merits of a 9/11 conspiracy theory, the presidents birth cert, bin laden dead or alive, or if we have landed on the moon does not belong anywhere besides hot topics. This thread is general politics and debating a conspiracy theory is not politics.

Why bother trolling general politics if it is not to pick fights and silence anyone who doesn't march to your drum? There is the Ron Paul 2012 section or you could form your own website strictly stating acceptable discussion material and see how it flies if we are so repugnant to your delicate sensibilities. By dismissing reports of documented media and military/government collusion which has being utilized to support previous war mongering as conspiracy theory (said with disgust of course as no sane person questions the veracity of the benevolent government) you are cutting the legs out from under the anti-war segment of the Paul campaign. No biggie since he happens to be the only true anti-war politician who has vocally stood against our imperialism AND put his self forth as a potential presidential candidate.

What brought you to support Dr.Paul? What has media done to prove itself worthy of acceptance to stories at face value? How has either the government or media proven itself trustworthy and without a hidden agenda? I have had my family nearly destroyed by lying, corrupt government agencies so you are darned right I am not willing to naively accept every cockamamie story put out from government sources. I accept any story put forth with extreme skepticism within the light of previous government behavior and who stands to benefit from this action at this time because I am not a rube. It would behoove people to be less trusting of the government.

[CuseRonPaul]

One of the things the Ron Paul movement is based on is questioning government. What is the point if you don't want us to, you know, question government? I've never subscribed to 9/11 conspiracies, though I absolutely believe the Bush and Clinton administrations knew way more than we're being told they did. But I don't buy the thermite or whatever story. Like you said, there is evidence against that. However, there is ZERO evidence other than Barack getting up in front of the country saying "this is what happened now let me drop a bunch of nationalist cliches for you all". Why is that evidence? Because he's Barack Obama? The reason I signed up for this forum the other night after this all went down was because I couldn't stomach the nationalism going on outside. I've been reading this forum for a while, and finally signed up because I wanted to talk about what was going on without being labeled an anti-American nutjob.

As for the idea that talking about this will turn people off to Ron Paul, that is complete and utter bullshit. A shitload of the country doesn't believe this. It isn't a scientific way to gauge public opinion, but look at comments on the story on Yahoo or the AP. People from all kinds of political backgrounds aren't buying the story. A lot of us on here know even the most ardent of Obama supporters who flat out don't believe a word of the story. Not only is there no evidence of Osama's body, not a single part of the story we're being told makes any sense.

[Teaser Rate]

this is a thread debating if the government is not telling the truth about the death of Bin Laden. That is a conspiracy theory thread. After Paul dropped out of the election I and many others left this forum because the truther stuff would just not go away. I'm back now because I want to help get Ron paul elected. This bin laden dead debate is just more truther stuff. No amount of evidence will ever satisfy many of you. Already there have been a ton of threads with this general theme. In my opinion these should all be moved. They are not political debates.

I can't tell you how many times I had to tell people in 2007 Ron Paul didn't think there was some kind of conspiracy on9/11. That I didn't think there was a conspiracy. This is more of that.

I don't enjoy being associated with you. I am because you are loud and feel a need to promote your own agenda. Main stream Republican voters don't like you and associate you with Ron Paul. Jesse Ventura and Alex Jones do not promote main stream political thought. Look at the way Rand was elected. He was elected because he avoided people like you like the plague. None of this debate is helpful.

Couldn't agree more. Those kinds of supporters are poison to any political campaign and should be purged from it as quickly as possible.

Unfortunately, Ron Paul seems to be unwilling to do this, as he keeps giving credibility to Alex Jones and his ilk by continuing to appear on his show on a regular basis.

[pcosmar]

Unfortunately, Ron Paul seems to be unwilling to do this, as he keeps giving credibility to Alex Jones and his ilk by continuing to appear on his show on a regular basis.
That should be taken as a "Clue".

[iamse7en]

I think I've discovered the truth here. The evidence is clear. Jimmer killed Osama. Look at the evidence:

http://blog.scorely.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/osama-got-jimmered-550x397.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/hfuizo/Misc/jimmered.jpg

[ExPatPaki]

Were any of these videos proven to be fake by a reputable source? Was there a consensus that the videos were fake? Did any experts say the videos were true?

I think a lot of people have doubts about only one video, the November 9 video where Osama supposedly admitted to the attacks.

This website (http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osamatape.html)did an analysis, although it is one of those "conspiracy" websites. But I still think it's worth looking at.

Here is an article (http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/16801)by an expert who cast doubts on the translation of the video.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/bin_laden_videos_small3.jpg

[moostraks]

That should be taken as a "Clue".

:) I think you were also supposed to be insulted by the fact that mainstream republicans don't like you. Such flattery.

So Teaser Rate feels that only government conformists are entitled to representation, that's rich...

[ExPatPaki]

Why bother trolling general politics if it is not to pick fights and silence anyone who doesn't march to your drum? There is the Ron Paul 2012 section or you could form your own website strictly stating acceptable discussion material and see how it flies if we are so repugnant to your delicate sensibilities. By dismissing reports of documented media and military/government collusion which has being utilized to support previous war mongering as conspiracy theory (said with disgust of course as no sane person questions the veracity of the benevolent government) you are cutting the legs out from under the anti-war segment of the Paul campaign. No biggie since he happens to be the only true anti-war politician who has vocally stood against our imperialism AND put his self forth as a potential presidential candidate.

What brought you to support Dr.Paul? What has media done to prove itself worthy of acceptance to stories at face value? How has either the government or media proven itself trustworthy and without a hidden agenda? I have had my family nearly destroyed by lying, corrupt government agencies so you are darned right I am not willing to naively accept every cockamamie story put out from government sources. I accept any story put forth with extreme skepticism within the light of previous government behavior and who stands to benefit from this action at this time because I am not a rube. It would behoove people to be less trusting of the government.

I have to +rep you for this, but I'm out of ammo as of now.

[moostraks]

I have to +rep you for this, but I'm out of ammo as of now.

:) Thanks!

[heavenlyboy34]

Why bother trolling general politics if it is not to pick fights and silence anyone who doesn't march to your drum? There is the Ron Paul 2012 section or you could form your own website strictly stating acceptable discussion material and see how it flies if we are so repugnant to your delicate sensibilities. By dismissing reports of documented media and military/government collusion which has being utilized to support previous war mongering as conspiracy theory (said with disgust of course as no sane person questions the veracity of the benevolent government) you are cutting the legs out from under the anti-war segment of the Paul campaign. No biggie since he happens to be the only true anti-war politician who has vocally stood against our imperialism AND put his self forth as a potential presidential candidate.

What brought you to support Dr.Paul? What has media done to prove itself worthy of acceptance to stories at face value? How has either the government or media proven itself trustworthy and without a hidden agenda? I have had my family nearly destroyed by lying, corrupt government agencies so you are darned right I am not willing to naively accept every cockamamie story put out from government sources. I accept any story put forth with extreme skepticism within the light of previous government behavior and who stands to benefit from this action at this time because I am not a rube. It would behoove people to be less trusting of the government.
+rep, good sir

[Bodhi]

I have to +rep you for this, but I'm out of ammo as of now.

I got him for you :)

[jmdrake]

That should be taken as a "Clue".

I owe you.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to pcosmar again.

[jonhowe]

NO,
This thread is discussing current news and affairs.
It is discussing the present political propaganda.

If you are unable to think past the lies being spewed, how are you going to come to a conclusion on who to vote for and why?

Uh, Ron Paul believe Osama was killed this week.

If HE can't see past the lies, WHY ARE YOU SUPPORTING HIM?

[heavenlyboy34]

It's cherry-picking based off of your own speculation (finding what fits into your theory).

Bin Laden's illness is well-known. pcosmar was not cherrypicking. Is Sanjay Gupta a liar? http://edition.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/01/21/gupta.otsc/

[heavenlyboy34]

Uh, Ron Paul believe Osama was killed this week.

If HE can't see past the lies, WHY ARE YOU SUPPORTING HIM?

RP is an elected politician, playing politics.

[jonhowe]

RP is an elected politician, playing politics.

So, he's lying?

[jmdrake]

Uh, Ron Paul believe Osama was killed this week.

If HE can't see past the lies, WHY ARE YOU SUPPORTING HIM?

Really? Quote were Ron Paul gave a date as to when Osama died? Ron Paul said that his glad Osama is dead, that the government is inviting conspiracy theories for not releasing the photos, that he has questions about timing and the DNA evidence from a medical perspective, and that he needs more information.

Here are his exact words:

“Why does our Government invite Conspiracy Theories all the time? I mean, why didn’t they show us pictures? No one questions Saddam Hussein’s death. They showed us pictures…… and I have a medical question, trying to confirm the timing. You know, I understand he was killed Sunday afternoon and by Sunday 9:00 it was announced that the President would speak, and they had DNA proof of the individual. To my knowledge, I didn’t know they could do DNA proof that quickly. Then they came back and they said well, we have facial features and we’ll get the results of the DNA later. It’s that confusion, and just hate to talk about it in detail until we know more about the information.”

How you got "Ron Paul believes Osama was killed this week" from that is beyond me.

[pcosmar]

Uh, Ron Paul believe Osama was killed this week.

If HE can't see past the lies, WHY ARE YOU SUPPORTING HIM?

I don't know that he "believes" that. He has said that it raises more questions than it answers. But he is taking it on face value as it supports his position that the wars were unnecessary, and that foreign policy is flawed.
I agree with him there.