Great job Alex Merced. I agree. (Gary supporters vs. Ron Supporters)

[BamaFanNKy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcu-N6JnO1U

[belian78]

Again you and Alex completely miss the point. Less boots on the ground for ron, and less votes in Ames for Ron is very detrimental in trying to go after potential voters.

Growing very weary of you trying to recruit GJ supporters here.

[BamaFanNKy]

Again you and Alex completely miss the point. Less boots on the ground for ron, and less votes in Ames for Ron is very detrimental in trying to go after potential voters.

Growing very weary of you trying to recruit GJ supporters here.

So two Ron Paul supporters saying we should stop the fighting and accept that we have two voices for liberty that we don't 100% agree with either? Logic says, two voices are better than one.

I guess Peter Schiff is recruiting for Gary Johnson as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZoUL-udXr0

[Feeding the Abscess]

As I see it, GJ's campaign is linking to articles critical of RP, and GJ supporters are attacking RP and his supporters. RP himself has been publicly friendly with GJ, and RP's supporters are responding to the negativity.

RP supporters wouldn't be upset had GJ supporters not gone on the offensive. Most of us were willing to go along with having two people to grow the base. But if one part of the base is going to attack the other, the one who got the ball rolling on all of this?

No thanks.

[Bossobass]

Time for someone to start Gary Johnson forums, and good luck with that.

Bosso

[BamaFanNKy]

As I see it, GJ's campaign is linking to articles critical of RP, and GJ supporters are attacking RP and his supporters. RP himself has been publicly friendly with GJ, and RP's supporters are responding to the negativity.

RP supporters wouldn't be upset had GJ supporters not gone on the offensive. Most of us were willing to go along with having two people to grow the base. But if one part of the base is going to attack the other, the one who got the ball rolling on all of this?

No thanks.

Fact is, your account is not correct. GJ campaign saw that it pissed us off (that article) and pulled it. If they were trying to be negative they would have kept it up. Also, there is a Gary Johnson website but, I won't post there. I am not voting for him. I don't think the Gary Johnson supporters have been very logical in some instances but, all in all they have to expect some "blowback." That said, the hostility needs to stop so we can take the unique advantage in the next debate.

[KramerDSP]

Fact is, your account is not correct. GJ campaign saw that it pissed us off (that article) and pulled it. If they were trying to be negative they would have kept it up. Also, there is a Gary Johnson website but, I won't post there. I am not voting for him. I don't think the Gary Johnson supporters have been very logical in some instances but, all in all they have to expect some "blowback." That said, the hostility needs to stop so we can take the unique advantage in the next debate.

Thanks for clarifying. I have not seen that tidbit, and am appreciative they pulled it.

[sailingaway]

So two Ron Paul supporters saying we should stop the fighting and accept that we have two voices for liberty that we don't 100% agree with either? Logic says, two voices are better than one.

I guess Peter Schiff is recruiting for Gary Johnson as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZoUL-udXr0

If so he isn't doing it here, which is all people are objecting to. This forum is to showcase Ron and his ideas, not extraneous opposing candidates

And the 'opposing candidate section' is the only place this belongs, imho.

[sailingaway]

Thanks for clarifying. I have not seen that tidbit, and am appreciative they pulled it.

At the time they pulled it the linked it to Gary's facebook page.

[Feeding the Abscess]

Fact is, your account is not correct. GJ campaign saw that it pissed us off (that article) and pulled it. If they were trying to be negative they would have kept it up. Also, there is a Gary Johnson website but, I won't post there. I am not voting for him. I don't think the Gary Johnson supporters have been very logical in some instances but, all in all they have to expect some "blowback." That said, the hostility needs to stop so we can take the unique advantage in the next debate.

It's good that the campaign removed it. Doesn't make me incorrect, though; it was still linked by the campaign.

I couldn't agree more with your blowback remark. I almost included that in my initial post.

I also agree that the hostility should end. Any aggressor in a campaign of negativity between Gary and Ron should stop.

[speciallyblend]

As I see it, GJ's campaign is linking to articles critical of RP, and GJ supporters are attacking RP and his supporters. RP himself has been publicly friendly with GJ, and RP's supporters are responding to the negativity.

RP supporters wouldn't be upset had GJ supporters not gone on the offensive. Most of us were willing to go along with having two people to grow the base. But if one part of the base is going to attack the other, the one who got the ball rolling on all of this?

No thanks.

exactly and i was a person pushing for a Paul/Johnson 2012 ticket, That has changed now! Ron Paul 2012 and if the gop fails to nominate the right man for the job? I will be waiting to hear who Ron Paul endorses!!

[BamaFanNKy]

At the time they pulled it the linked it to Gary's facebook page.

Intellectual dishonesty. I've said it before. I clicked the link after it was up for about 30 minutes. The facebook was posted before they pulled it.

[thasre]

Hear, hear! Good job, Mr. Merced.

[BamaFanNKy]

Also, sailingaway. Of the last 10 "Gary Johnson threads" 8 of 10 were started by Ron Paul supporters lashing out at Johnson. So, stop acting like Gary Johnson supporters are starting this. Most of them left. I'm the one (who supports Ron) who is fighting for us to be civil and work for Liberty (not both candidates). Let's shape the debate not have fights within the movement. Jesus.

[KramerDSP]

exactly and i was a person pushing for a Paul/Johnson 2012 ticket, That has changed now! Ron Paul 2012 and if the gop fails to nominate the right man for the job? I will be waiting to hear who Ron Paul endorses!!

It's gotta be Ron/Rand, IMO. I think it is the best way to get the GOP base behind the idea of Ron in the White House. In addition, almost anyone else (Cain, Ryan, Rubio) would place Ron's life in even greater danger than it already is the more momentum he keeps getting.

[erowe1]

Again you and Alex completely miss the point. Less boots on the ground for ron, and less votes in Ames for Ron is very detrimental in trying to go after potential voters.

Growing very weary of you trying to recruit GJ supporters here.

We can't change that both are in the race right now. And whichever one anyone prefers to support, it's no good to tell them they have some obligation to support the other one instead, as if GJ's greatest offense is that he would dare to run against RP or RP's greatest offense is that he would dare to run against GJ. There's still a pretty good likelihood that only one of the two will still be running in January, and a pretty good likelihood that they will have the endorsement of the other (which, either way, would be a pretty powerful endorsement, and more powerful with the endorser having been a former candidate than it otherwise would be). The supporters of each one stand more to lose than they stand to gain by making bad blood between them at this point.

[BamaFanNKy]

We can't change that both are in the race right now. And whichever one anyone prefers to support, it's no good to tell them they have some obligation to support the other one instead, as if GJ's greatest offense is that he would dare to run against RP or RP's greatest offense is that he would dare to run against GJ. There's still a pretty good likelihood that only one of the two will still be running in January, and a pretty good likelihood that they will have the endorsement of the other (which, either way, would be a pretty powerful endorsement, and more powerful with the endorser having been a former candidate than it otherwise would be). The supporters of each one stand more to lose than they stand to gain by making bad blood between them at this point.

+Rep

[sailingaway]

Also, sailingaway. Of the last 10 "Gary Johnson threads" 8 of 10 were started by Ron Paul supporters lashing out at Johnson. So, stop acting like Gary Johnson supporters are starting this. Most of them left. I'm the one (who supports Ron) who is fighting for us to be civil and work for Liberty (not both candidates). Let's shape the debate not have fights within the movement. Jesus.

You posted this one, though. And I'm not in a movement with Gary.

[sailingaway]

Intellectual dishonesty. I've said it before. I clicked the link after it was up for about 30 minutes. The facebook was posted before they pulled it.

It is not intellectual dishonesty. They changed the other one and then I saw it on facebook. I reported what I saw, and it hadn't been there the day before when people were complaining early on, so it was posted after complaints had started.

[BamaFanNKy]

You posted this one, though. And I'm not in a movement with Gary.

I posted it because a respected member of the board was talking about supporters. It was not promoting Gary. It was not promoting Ron. It was promoting our movement.

If you are not in the liberty movement, then I can't help you.

you complain about Gary Johnson threads but you posted this based on a misquote and a lie by Raimondo: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?288697-Raimondo-on-Gary-Johnson-Gary-Johnson-Caveat-Emptor&highlight=Gary+Johnson

[belian78]

We can't change that both are in the race right now. And whichever one anyone prefers to support, it's no good to tell them they have some obligation to support the other one instead, as if GJ's greatest offense is that he would dare to run against RP or RP's greatest offense is that he would dare to run against GJ. There's still a pretty good likelihood that only one of the two will still be running in January, and a pretty good likelihood that they will have the endorsement of the other (which, either way, would be a pretty powerful endorsement, and more powerful with the endorser having been a former candidate than it otherwise would be). The supporters of each one stand more to lose than they stand to gain by making bad blood between them at this point.

Well then, by all means contact josh and have him officially change the name of this place to rongaryforums.com. then when their campaigns wash each other out and both come out the weaker we can have Obama for another 4 years.

[cdc482]

Alex Merced is wrong on at least one point. The actions of the candidate should determine who you vote for.

[sailingaway]

I don't consider myself in a movement with Gary. He doesn't appeal to me, not as second choice or at all. I could remotely see myself voting for him if everyone else were clearly worse, but not with enthusiasm on any level. Names like 'liberty movement....' I consider myself to be in it, but this idea that Gary represents 'us' is an 'us' I'm not in.

[BamaFanNKy]

I don't consider myself in a movement with Gary. He doesn't appeal to me, not as second choice or at all. I could remotely see myself voting for him if everyone else were clearly worse, but not with enthusiasm on any level. Names like 'liberty movement....' I consider myself to be in it, but this idea that Gary represents 'us' is an 'us' I'm not in.

OK. He "Doesn't inspire you." Fine. You don't like his record as New Mexico governor. Still, he's part of the movement and it's made evident by his acceptance by Ron Paul at various events and all the groups associated with this movement. We get it. You don't like him. You disagree with his stances on Marijuana, ending the war in Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan etc. and his calls for balanced budgets. You disagree with changing medicare and medicaid. You disagree with his stance that the government has no place in gay marriage, you disagree with him being pro choice.

I disagree with maybe one or two positions of his and thus choose Ron Paul. I'm not going to kick a man out of the movement over 2 issues that are not tops on my list.

Again, the OP was to stop the fighting with fellow liberty movement folks who may disagree on messenger, obviously you are opposed to stopping the argument. You want to see Ron or the movement ripped apart. I put the movement above any man.

[belian78]

Why don't you just admit that you are looking for Ron to drop and endorse GJ and be his 'kingmaker', Bama?

[sailingaway]

Bamafan, I'm pretty much done with this topic unless something new comes up.

[BamaFanNKy]

Why don't you just admit that you are looking for Ron to drop and endorse GJ and be his 'kingmaker', Bama?

You win dumbest post ever. I would prefer Ron run now. Helping set up Rand in 2016 or 2020. You can project whatever theories you want, my loyalty to Ron should not be questioned.

[BamaFanNKy]

Bamafan, I'm pretty much done with this topic unless something new comes up.

Good.

[erowe1]

Well then, by all means contact josh and have him officially change the name of this place to rongaryforums.com. then when their campaigns wash each other out and both come out the weaker we can have Obama for another 4 years.

I'm unreservedly backing RP for president. I don't want this to be ronadgaryforums.com. I just don't think we should go out of our way to burn any bridges.

[Sentient Void]

solidarity comrades

[erowe1]

What exactly do people hope to accomplish by attacking Johnson here? Is the idea that if we can all be vitriolic enough, he'll cry uncle and drop out on our account?

[ClayTrainor]

Don't take Politics too seriously, it's bad for your health. :)

[Anti Federalist]

solidarity comrades

Well stated my droog.

[ds21089]

Well then, by all means contact josh and have him officially change the name of this place to rongaryforums.com. then when their campaigns wash each other out and both come out the weaker we can have Obama for another 4 years.

+ rep. If Gary Johnson were for liberty, he should step aside and endorse Ron Paul once he accumulates a lot of support, simply because in the end, Ron Paul will have more votes and Gary Johnson is only making it less likely Paul get's the nomination.

[AlexMerced]

Alex Merced is wrong on at least one point. The actions of the candidate should determine who you vote for.

that's not what I said, I said don't let the actions of a candidates supporters decide who you vote for, and base you decision on the candidate. If people decided based on supporters, RP and GJ would both have a long year ahead of them.

[AlexMerced]

Oh yeah... amazing to see someone else other than myself post one of my videos in a thread... amazing.. amazing...

[AlexMerced]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz9ZKsWv5no

[cdc482]

I agreeD with you Alex Merced.

UNTIL I saw that Gary Johnson used campaign funds to make posts criticizing Ron's "racist baggage." Wtf?! He's clearly trying to convert RP supporters. He is stealing votes from Ron.

When the Republicans say this about Libertarians, I disagree, cause the views are so different, but the way GJ is campaigning he could hurt Ron's chances.

[BamaFanNKy]

Oh yeah... amazing to see someone else other than myself post one of my videos in a thread... amazing.. amazing...

Dude. I am a subscriber since your 3rd video. I don't have time for all of them but, I listen to fellow movement people.

[BamaFanNKy]

I agreeD with you Alex Merced.

UNTIL I saw that Gary Johnson used campaign funds to make posts criticizing Ron's "racist baggage." Wtf?! He's clearly trying to convert RP supporters. He is stealing votes from Ron.

When the Republicans say this about Libertarians, I disagree, cause the views are so different, but the way GJ is campaigning he could hurt Ron's chances.

1) it wasn't him saying it and it wasn't calling Ron racist but, that he has the baggage of the newsletters. 2) it was brought to his attention and he took it down.

It really is something I think he opposed. I contacted his staff and they took it down very quick.

[sailingaway]

1) it wasn't him saying it and it wasn't calling Ron racist but, that he has the baggage of the newsletters. 2) it was brought to his attention and he took it down.

It really is something I think he opposed. I contacted his staff and they took it down very quick.

Why add that?

And it was posted on Gary's facebook AFTER people started complaining.

Yeah, he took it down after it was clear it was a disaster as far as ever getting support -- and I mean EVER -- from anyone who supported Ron.

Folks, imho we should let this thread die , I don't think we should give it any space by bumping it. But meanwhile I think it should be moved to opposing candidate forum.

[BamaFanNKy]

Why add that?

He posted it on his facebook AFTER people started complaining.

Yeah, he took it down after it was clear it was a disaster as far as ever getting support -- and I mean EVER -- from anyone who supported Ron.

Folks, imho we should let this thread die , but meanwhile I think it should be moved to opposing candidate forum.

Again, I will point out to you. 30 minutes after it was posted on facebook.... the link was dead. I am sure Gary may have a staffer who was put off by Ron or the Pauls in the past.

Hey, Rand had that douchebag Adams working for him. Sometimes you hire bad people. Obviously, Gary got our messages and corrected it. Yet, we would rather keep the fight going and do the work of the Neo-Cons for them. Keep fighting and we'll end up with a Pawlenty or Romney.

[sailingaway]

Bamafan, I wasn't the one who bumped this this morning nor put the last thread in opposing candidates. You are keeping the fight alive.

[TNforPaul45]

So two Ron Paul supporters saying we should stop the fighting and accept that we have two voices for liberty that we don't 100% agree with either? Logic says, two voices are better than one.

I guess Peter Schiff is recruiting for Gary Johnson as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZoUL-udXr0



Gary Johnson is not a voice for liberty. Gary Johnson is a voice for Gary Johnson!



Please please please take your MilNetOps divide and conquer techniques somewhere else.

[BamaFanNKy]

Gary Johnson is not a voice for liberty. Gary Johnson is a voice for Gary Johnson!



Please please please take your MilNetOps divide and conquer techniques somewhere else.

Says the guy who quotes himself in his own his sig.

Check his record and tell me he didn't commit acts for liberty.

[BamaFanNKy]

Bamafan, I wasn't the one who bumped this this morning nor put the last thread in opposing candidates. You are keeping the fight alive.

Neither did I. I also am not the one who is continuing a lie of a talking point. Name another candidate who responds to the other candidates supporters in removing divisive material. Seriously, your belly aching over someone who corrected the matter you complained about?

WOW!

[TNforPaul45]

Says the guy who quotes himself in his own his sig.

Check his record and tell me he didn't commit acts for liberty.

Yeah but there is one big difference: i am not trying to run for president of this country, and that complete fraud Gary Johnson is. He is playing a very dangerous game, pulling people and money away from the only candidate that will actually change anything and save this country.

Are you really going to start this "gary johnson acted for liberty" bs again? I dont care if he went into the woods and took a crap for liberty, he is wrong on the issuess and wrong for this failing country.

He was on the Judges show the other day, he said he wants to keep gitmo open, NOT close the fed, or the dept. Of agriclture or commerce, or any other federal super agencies for that matter

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/86709.html

So he is diametrically opposed to all of Ron Pauls political stances, from his own words. And he smears ron paul both with his own mouth and with his proxies. How much longer do you think that you can perpetuate the illusion that gary johnson is a voice for liberty when he is a previous quasi-libertarian who wants so badly to suckle at the neocon teet?

Or are you, like johnson, of the mindset now that we ron paulers are the enemy, and you feel a duty to continue to try and troll and divide the core of his online support base with your ignorance?

You have no logical support left for your stances. You hold your support for johnson now just for the sake of continuing to hold it, so that you can aggrivate.

If, and when, johnson attacks paul in the debates, on tv, will you still then say oh oh hes a voice for liberty! ?

In a way though, you are right. He is a voice for liberty....the liberty of the state to continue on as it has for the past 150. Johnson is mitt romneys dream come true.

[pacelli]

Time for someone to start Gary Johnson forums, and good luck with that.

Bosso

no kidding!!

[klamath]

Tried to warn about this divide happening on here in '09 when people were encouraging GJ to run against RP. Well it has happened and is going to continue to happen. This thread reminds me of Humpty Dumpty. All the kings men are not going to put RP's base back together again. Enjoy the ride folks because this is the way it is going to be. The libertarian wing are the first ones to turn upon each other and all these whiney little threads are not going to stop it.

[juleswin]

Why add that?

And it was posted on Gary's facebook AFTER people started complaining.

Yeah, he took it down after it was clear it was a disaster as far as ever getting support -- and I mean EVER -- from anyone who supported Ron.

Folks, imho we should let this thread die , I don't think we should give it any space by bumping it. But meanwhile I think it should be moved to opposing candidate forum.

One way to kill this thread and future ones is to 1st ban BamaFanNKy and his ilks. I hate to be the censorship guy but he has been at it for weeks now, 995 of the post I have seen from him are pro GJ, posts pointing out Ron Paul's faults (which we all know already) and promoting the false notion that 2 people running in a winner take all race is good for us. I feel sick to my stomach every time I read his GJ posts.

I know he did a fantastic job on the ground for Rand Paul, but with his incessant push of GJ and playing the role of the devil's advocate every single time is beginning to annoy me

[BamaFanNKy]

Yeah but there is one big difference: i am not trying to run for president of this country, and that complete fraud Gary Johnson is. He is playing a very dangerous game, pulling people and money away from the only candidate that will actually change anything and save this country.

Are you really going to start this "gary johnson acted for liberty" bs again? I dont care if he went into the woods and took a crap for liberty, he is wrong on the issuess and wrong for this failing country.

He was on the Judges show the other day, he said he wants to keep gitmo open, NOT close the fed, or the dept. Of agriclture or commerce, or any other federal super agencies for that matter

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/86709.html

So he is diametrically opposed to all of Ron Pauls political stances, from his own words. And he smears ron paul both with his own mouth and with his proxies. How much longer do you think that you can perpetuate the illusion that gary johnson is a voice for liberty when he is a previous quasi-libertarian who wants so badly to suckle at the neocon teet?

Or are you, like johnson, of the mindset now that we ron paulers are the enemy, and you feel a duty to continue to try and troll and divide the core of his online support base with your ignorance?

You have no logical support left for your stances. You hold your support for johnson now just for the sake of continuing to hold it, so that you can aggrivate.

If, and when, johnson attacks paul in the debates, on tv, will you still then say oh oh hes a voice for liberty! ?

In a way though, you are right. He is a voice for liberty....the liberty of the state to continue on as it has for the past 150. Johnson is mitt romneys dream come true.


You have a lot of wrong information in one post. Honesty is not what you, Raimondo and Lew Rockwell want to deal with. It's like when Raimondo and a host of other people on here attacked Rand and then people attacked me for saying they were wrong about Rand.

Here is the full interview:
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/4662213/first-libertarian-president-in-american-history/

Here is what the Q and A from him:

Abortion: Supports a woman's right to choose up until viability of the fetus.
Abolishing Departments: The only two currently he's advocating abolishing are ED and HUD. Recognizes others may be eligible to be done the same (does not mean he's not for closing them means he's still looking at HOW to do it). Just like Rand he's not coming straight out and saying things, he wants to have a plan in place.
Debt Ceiling: Would not raise debt ceiling.
Global War: At least a 43% reduction across the board on military and getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Social Security Medicare and Medicaid: Cut 43% and have the states run the systems, not the feds.
The Fed "We should audit it and I would sign on to ending the federal reserve if it passed Congress" Somehow, you and Lew missed that quote.
Declared Wars: Would ask for declared wars from Congress.
Gitmo: Keep it open. Because we would have to have a prison somewhere else. (Needs to expand why, I think he's giving the "Rand Paul" answer. He sure paraphrases the same answer)

Are the above not similar if not same views as Ron? He has a different bend on them (thus I support Ron) but, to say he's not a voice of Liberty is just being disingenuous.

[JoshLowry]

Tried to warn about this divide happening on here in '09 when people were encouraging GJ to run against RP. Well it has happened and is going to continue to happen. This thread reminds me of Humpty Dumpty. All the kings men are not going to put RP's base back together again. Enjoy the ride folks because this is the way it is going to be. The libertarian wing are the first ones to turn upon each other and all these whiney little threads are not going to stop it.

Saving this post for future reference. ;)

It won't take any "putting back together" it will happen naturally.

Four years later and many minds have been changed.

The right and left voters have both been taken for recent rides.

[BamaFanNKy]

One way to kill this thread and future ones is to 1st ban BamaFanNKy and his ilks. I hate to be the censorship guy but he has been at it for weeks now, 995 of the post I have seen from him are pro GJ, posts pointing out Ron Paul's faults (which we all know already) and promoting the false notion that 2 people running in a winner take all race is good for us. I feel sick to my stomach every time I read his GJ posts.

I know he did a fantastic job on the ground for Rand Paul, but with his incessant push of GJ and playing the role of the devil's advocate every single time is beginning to annoy me

My ilk= People who support Ron and don't think we have to lie about other's views. The thing that made me great for Rand, I found real issues of contention against opponents. Not surface and petty arguments.

Want to sink Gary, point out his immigration stance, abortion and/or Gitmo.

Josh and Kotin heard from me in person. They know how I feel. I am in the tank RP 2012 but, I like Gary as well as a voice for liberty. I won't let good people be destroyed for political gain.

[klamath]

Saving this post for future reference. ;)

It won't take any "putting back together" it will happen naturally.

Four years later and many minds have been changed.

The right and left voters have both been taken for recent rides.

Well when you repost my post when "Ron Paul is projected to be the next president" is flashing up on the tv screens I will gladly eat crow.:D:D

[BamaFanNKy]

Well when you repost my post when "Ron Paul is projected to be the next president" is flashing up on the tv screens I will gladly eat crow.:D:D

Can we do it also when Gary drops out and endorses RP2012?

[KramerDSP]

I think it is insulting to propose that we ban forum members for their opinions.

Are we Free Republicers or Daily Kossacks??

Come on!!!!!

This is Liberty Forest. The most eclectic and bright mix of posters I have ever, ever come across on any internet forum.

BAN? MY ASS!!

[sailingaway]

Can we do it also when Gary drops out and endorses RP2012?

Will the net effect be more support or less, because people identify Ron with issues like abortion and a different drug philosophy (not policy) than Ron has? Because if Gary is here in the Iowa straw poll and Ron gets less media in a venue like that because of Gary being in there, I think Gary's later endorsement isn't going to mean as much as the lost opportunity. Gary doesn't have that much support to throw Ron's way, whereas coloring Ron's message by association or 'negative comparisons' in the early stages can keep things from snowballing for him.

We fully understand things have to pretty much fall in place perfectly for Ron for him to have a solid chance at the nomination, but imho Gary's presence is a negative in getting to that idyllic spot, even if he later endorses Ron. I think Ron would be more likely to pick up Gary's new enemies than any support that wouldn't have voted for Ron already.

Gary has every right to run, he is his own person. However, I don't see it being a plus for Ron. I think the subject should be exclusively in opposing candidates so newcomers here aren't distracted and don't read the 'negative comparisons' to Ron as the introduction we want to give Ron, as well. But it is Josh's site.

[juleswin]

My ilk= People who support Ron and don't think we have to lie about other's views. The thing that made me great for Rand, I found real issues of contention against opponents. Not surface and petty arguments.

Want to sink Gary, point out his immigration stance, abortion and/or Gitmo.

Josh and Kotin heard from me in person. They know how I feel. I am in the tank RP 2012 but, I like Gary as well as a voice for liberty. I won't let good people be destroyed for political gain.

You know what you are doing. When people are venting their anger, people trying to blow off steam at something GJ did, you ride-in in your Gary defense patrol to make sure the wound doesn't close. Usually the threads would have ended pages ago if you did not show up but right on queue, you are there battling, fighting the good fight for GJ. This is what I have a problem with

[BamaFanNKy]

Will the net effect be more support or less, because people identify Ron with issues like abortion and a different drug philosophy (not policy) than Ron has? Because if Gary is here in the Iowa straw poll and Ron gets less media in a venue like that because of Gary being in there, I think Gary's later endorsement isn't going to mean as much as the lost opportunity. Gary doesn't have that much support to throw Ron's way, whereas coloring Ron's message by association or 'negative comparisons' in the early stages can keep things from snowballing for him.

We fully understand things have to pretty much fall in place perfectly for Ron for him to have a solid chance at the nomination, but imho Gary's presence is a negative in getting to that idyllic spot, even if he later endorses Ron. I think Ron would be more likely to pick up Gary's new enemies than any support that wouldn't have voted for Ron already.

Gary has every right to run, he is his own person. However, I don't see it being a plus for Ron. I think the subject should be exclusively in opposing candidates so newcomers here aren't distracted and don't read the 'negative comparisons' to Ron as the introduction we want to give Ron, as well. But it is Josh's site.

So, you don't want Romney or Huckabee to endorse Ron?

[sailingaway]

So, you don't want Romney or Huckabee to endorse Ron?

They bring more supporters who wouldn't vote for Ron otherwise perhaps. I don't think Gary does. They have more supporters, period. But we both know that won't happen, and I'm not holding my breath for that either. But they aren't running constant pieces about how people should pick them because they don't have 'RP's baggage' implying there is anything substantive to the 'baggage', and perpetuating the 'baggage' as an issue. Not yet, anyhow. And their supporters aren't coming here suggesting we should some how support them being in the race.

[BamaFanNKy]

You know what you are doing. When people are venting their anger, people trying to blow off steam at something GJ did, you ride-in in your Gary defense patrol to make sure the wound doesn't close. Usually the threads would have ended pages ago if you did not show up but right on queue, you are there battling, fighting the good fight for GJ. This is what I have a problem with

I see, so... I actually asked Josh to delete my account and gave it two days rest...... it didn't stop. So, fact is that people here would rather "Hate" than "Build." I even went and put a Pawlenty thread up and it got derailed into a Gary Johnson talk. FACT: I support Ron. FACT: Gary's views are a shade variation and close to Ron. FACT: This is great for shaping the debate to our favor. FACT: We'll need his supporters when he drops out. FACT: You don't throw people who support Gary under the bus who have supported Ron in the past. They are still part of our movement.

Then again, I'm the shit stirrer.

[BamaFanNKy]

They bring more supporters who wouldn't vote for Ron otherwise perhaps. I don't think Gary does. They have more supporters, period.

But, wouldn't their support mean Ron is a neo-con? That's the assumption you made in your previous comment. It's the old "Mr. Black donated so Ron is......" If Gary endorses, it means Gary endorses. Hell, does Ron stand for what Gary does? Because he did endorse in 2008. This fight has been stupid and I've been involved in it. I will only comment to correct when lies are made. Continue on with saying how we don't want Gary supporters or endorsement.

[sailingaway]

But, wouldn't their support mean Ron is a neo-con? That's the assumption you made in your previous comment. It's the old "Mr. Black donated so Ron is......" If Gary endorses, it means Gary endorses. Hell, does Ron stand for what Gary does? Because he did endorse in 2008. This fight has been stupid and I've been involved in it. I will only comment to correct when lies are made. Continue on with saying how we don't want Gary supporters or endorsement.

No, I made no comment that that makes Ron bad if Gary endorses him, my comment was that as far as Ron's candidacy is concerned I think Gary is a negative, not a positive, even if he endorses. And it isn't the endorsement that would taint Ron, though some might think it did, I suppose, it is Gary being in a debate giving his view of drug policy then the Fox person turns to Ron and says 'we don't have time for a full discussion, but you essentially agree with that, right?' and if Ron says yes, meaning end the drug war, it comes off with Gary's liberal stamp on drug usage, not Ron's 'realm for family, church and communities, and personal responsibility' stamp. Some GJ supporters say Gary phrases things to better attract voters but I assure you that in a GOP primary, RON better states this issue.

And yes, Gary has as much a right to run as Ron or Romney. But I support Ron, not either of the others.

[klamath]

Can we do it also when Gary drops out and endorses RP2012?

Actually not, because if the GJ campaign and supporters continue the rape and burn campaign tactics against RP, it very well could finish RP off. The tactic is to say something enough that the tag gets associated with a person to the uninformed voter. "Ron Paul? Oh I know isn't he that guy that pushed the crazy conspiracy north american union?" or "Ron Paul? Oh isn't he that guy that has all that racist baggage." or "Ron Paul? oh isn't he that guy that is antisemite?" The GJ campaign and supporters are showing they are using and will use all of this to win. The democrat in the fall will use everyone one of these tags coined by the GJ Campaign to attack RP.

[sailingaway]

Actually not, because if the GJ campaign and supporters continue the rape and burn campaign tactics against RP, it very well could finish RP off. The tactic is to say something enough that the tag gets associated with a person to the uninformed voter. "Ron Paul? Oh I know isn't he that guy the pushed the crazy conspiracy north american union?" or "Ron Paul? Oh isn't he that guy that has all that racist baggage." or "Ron Paul? oh isn't he that guy that is antisemite?" The GJ campaign and supporters are showing they are using and will use all of this to win. The democrat in the fall will use everyone one of these tags coined by the GJ Campaign to attack RP.

and that is the other reason it is worse for Ron even if Gary endorses Ron later. Gary simply can't deliver supporters. People who support Gary and not Ron, even as second choice so they'd come over anyhow, pretty much dislike Ron for whatever reason and won't back him, in any event, and there simply are not enough of those Gary could 'deliver' to overcome the negative impact of his running.

[Gaddafi Duck]

The shocking aspect of this entire debate is that someone not only viewed an Alex Merced video, but also liked it.

[AlexMerced]

The shocking aspect of this entire debate is that someone not only viewed an Alex Merced video, but also liked it.

I know... that's what shocked me too... lol

[TNforPaul45]

Banning of forum members is not needed.

Ideas always win. Silencing of voices is not what is needed.

Now I've called for a banning of a few people who popped into the forums and were obvious trolls. Bama is not "trolling" per se but his opinions of Gary Johnson are temporarily non-aligned with reality. That will change soon :)

[BamaFanNKy]

Banning of forum members is not needed.

Ideas always win. Silencing of voices is not what is needed.

Now I've called for a banning of a few people who popped into the forums and were obvious trolls. Bama is not "trolling" per se but his opinions of Gary Johnson are temporarily non-aligned with reality. That will change soon :)

You forget. I'm the guy who liked the Alex Merced video. I tend to root for the ones no one likes and defend them. If you notice, I am somewhat critical of Congressman Paul on here but, fight for him tooth and nail on twitter and my blog. It's my love of differing views that inspires me. I don't agree with Gary on everything but, you won't see me trash him. Now, Pawlenty and Romney..... all day long.

[MelissaWV]

So is it a bad time to ask where the heck that video was filmed?

Creepy freezeframe = 3:04.

Are you... in a child's room?

[BamaFanNKy]

So is it a bad time to ask where the heck that video was filmed?

Creepy freezeframe = 3:04.

Are you... in a child's room?

HA! I didn't notice the big "B" behind him. Alex's videos all have a "Where in the world did he film this" feel.

[AlexMerced]

HA! I didn't notice the big "B" behind him. Alex's videos all have a "Where in the world did he film this" feel.

It's my girlfriend Beckys bedroom, be glad I wasn't facing all the dolls, lol.

You can see more of the room in the video "Make-Up Economics" Where I actually interview her sort of

Most of my older videos are in my own bedroom which is more of a walk in closet with a bed (apartments are pricy in NYC, lol)

[AlexMerced]

You forget. I'm the guy who liked the Alex Merced video. I tend to root for the ones no one likes and defend them. If you notice, I am somewhat critical of Congressman Paul on here but, fight for him tooth and nail on twitter and my blog. It's my love of differing views that inspires me. I don't agree with Gary on everything but, you won't see me trash him. Now, Pawlenty and Romney..... all day long.

Sweet, I'm the underdog!!! lol, this thread is awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/alexmerced (subscribe if you havn't)

[jtstellar]

solidarity comrades

lol

[jtstellar]

shouldn't the guy who wrote the newsletters be dug out and stoned rather than attacking every bypasser who brings it up? i mean, just from a stand point of practicality, that's not even possible.

the writer, whoever you are, grow an effing pair and come out, even if ron paul comforts you privately and tells you 'you don't have to' (of course he would say that). cowards are unfit to be libertarians.

[sailingaway]

shouldn't the guy who wrote the newsletters be dug out and stoned rather than attacking every bypasser who brings it up? i mean, just from a stand point of practicality, that's not even possible.

the writer, whoever you are, grow an effing pair and come out, even if ron paul comforts you privately and tells you 'you don't have to' (of course he would say that). cowards are unfit to be libertarians.

From a practical standpoint that would just start a new press cycle.

No one with any credibility thinks Ron said this and the story has evolved to 'he should make someone a goat for media sacrifice 20 years after the event' and the language simply was nasty in a petty sort of way, not worth all this 20 years later.

[Imperial]

In my dorm, I have a Ron Paul 2008 sign sitting on my desk and a Gary Johnson 2012 sign hanging in my window. In my time working with the College Republicans and pretty liberal student population on my campus, I have noticed several things.

1) Most people outside of the movement see Ron Paul and Gary Johnson as pretty similar. At CPAC, a bunch of drunk college students tried to burn my Gary Johnson sign. I was labeled as 'Ron Paul' by my fellow College Republicans and was debating them the entire time on various libertarian issues. It is only the 9% or so in the movement, maybe 15% of the electorate, that notices any real difference.

2) Except for certain wings of the movement (IE, paleocons on one side and punditry on the other), most people don't care about the differences between them. Both have remarkably similar messages, even if they package them slightly differently. Even for the factions above, I have generally noticed that they would support either candidate in the primaries.

Let's face it- RPF is an echo chamber. Differences become more pronounced when you are with people who agree on so much! But we are all in this fight together; there are tons of people out there who either have not seen all that a philosophy of liberty has to offer or have seen it in the wrong way. Both Gary Johnson and Ron Paul present the philosophy through different lenses, but they are both fighting for the philosophy.

Here in Minnesota, we have three new YAL chapters starting up for next semester. We have worked hard to fight the perception among our fellow College Republicans that we are a bunch of rabble-rousers who just know how to yell "End the Fed!" and "Ron Paul!" The Republican Liberty Caucus here has very active connections to the state party. It is slow, but we are beginning to be taken seriously. Even more importantly, we are beginning to be accepted.

We are not just fighting for candidates; we are fighting for liberty. It is becoming clearer and clearer to me that no matter what happens, liberty is alive and well!

[AlexMerced]

in my dorm, i have a ron paul 2008 sign sitting on my desk and a gary johnson 2012 sign hanging in my window. In my time working with the college republicans and pretty liberal student population on my campus, i have noticed several things.

1) most people outside of the movement see ron paul and gary johnson as pretty similar. At cpac, a bunch of drunk college students tried to burn my gary johnson sign. I was labeled as 'ron paul' by my fellow college republicans and was debating them the entire time on various libertarian issues. It is only the 9% or so in the movement, maybe 15% of the electorate, that notices any real difference.

2) except for certain wings of the movement (ie, paleocons on one side and punditry on the other), most people don't care about the differences between them. Both have remarkably similar messages, even if they package them slightly differently. Even for the factions above, i have generally noticed that they would support either candidate in the primaries.

Let's face it- rpf is an echo chamber. Differences become more pronounced when you are with people who agree on so much! But we are all in this fight together; there are tons of people out there who either have not seen all that a philosophy of liberty has to offer or have seen it in the wrong way. Both gary johnson and ron paul present the philosophy through different lenses, but they are both fighting for the philosophy.

Here in minnesota, we have three new yal chapters starting up for next semester. We have worked hard to fight the perception among our fellow college republicans that we are a bunch of rabble-rousers who just know how to yell "end the fed!" and "ron paul!" the republican liberty caucus here has very active connections to the state party. It is slow, but we are beginning to be taken seriously. Even more importantly, we are beginning to be accepted.

We are not just fighting for candidates; we are fighting for liberty. It is becoming clearer and clearer to me that no matter what happens, liberty is alive and well!

ftw

[PlzPeopleWakeUp]

I love Big Brother.

[BamaFanNKy]

Shouldn't Ron Paul and Gary Johnson supporters be like the Irish in Braveheart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyx0K4WrElo

The Neo-Cons are just like the English. Hoping we destroy each other. We may seem on different sides now.... but in the end, we'll join sides.

[LibertyEagle]

Time for someone to start Gary Johnson forums, and good luck with that.

Bosso

+rep

Edit: Oh shoot, I'm out for the day. Oh well, the thought was there. heh.

[sailingaway]

In my dorm, I have a Ron Paul 2008 sign sitting on my desk and a Gary Johnson 2012 sign hanging in my window. In my time working with the College Republicans and pretty liberal student population on my campus, I have noticed several things.

1) Most people outside of the movement see Ron Paul and Gary Johnson as pretty similar. At CPAC, a bunch of drunk college students tried to burn my Gary Johnson sign. I was labeled as 'Ron Paul' by my fellow College Republicans and was debating them the entire time on various libertarian issues. It is only the 9% or so in the movement, maybe 15% of the electorate, that notices any real difference.

2) Except for certain wings of the movement (IE, paleocons on one side and punditry on the other), most people don't care about the differences between them. Both have remarkably similar messages, even if they package them slightly differently. Even for the factions above, I have generally noticed that they would support either candidate in the primaries.

Let's face it- RPF is an echo chamber. Differences become more pronounced when you are with people who agree on so much! But we are all in this fight together; there are tons of people out there who either have not seen all that a philosophy of liberty has to offer or have seen it in the wrong way. Both Gary Johnson and Ron Paul present the philosophy through different lenses, but they are both fighting for the philosophy.

Here in Minnesota, we have three new YAL chapters starting up for next semester. We have worked hard to fight the perception among our fellow College Republicans that we are a bunch of rabble-rousers who just know how to yell "End the Fed!" and "Ron Paul!" The Republican Liberty Caucus here has very active connections to the state party. It is slow, but we are beginning to be taken seriously. Even more importantly, we are beginning to be accepted.

We are not just fighting for candidates; we are fighting for liberty. It is becoming clearer and clearer to me that no matter what happens, liberty is alive and well!

I think they are very different in important ways, so I don't think 'either would do', but you have the Gary Johnson sign in your window, so you are supporting a different candidate.

[LibertyEagle]

Says the guy who quotes himself in his own his sig.

Check his record and tell me he didn't commit acts for liberty.

Seriously, Bama, it's obvious you love Gary Johnson. That's cool and all, but don't you think you should be starting a Gary Johnson forum? Since this is Ron Paul forums, it's really not the appropriate place to be pitching for a competing candidate. Ya think?

[PlzPeopleWakeUp]

I love Big Brother.

[BamaFanNKy]

Seriously, Bama, it's obvious you love Gary Johnson. That's cool and all, but don't you think you should be starting a Gary Johnson forum? Since this is Ron Paul forums, it's really not the appropriate place to be pitching for a competing candidate. Ya think?

Love is a strong word. If I loved him you think I would be pledging my support and vote to him. Then again, it is cute to say "I love him and Promote him." It's like when people said Ron "took marching orders from Ahmadinejad." Trying to make sure we don't burn bridges with people who are part of our movement is seen as "promoting" to you? False accusations and catchy soundbites from a guy who has a avatar of Ron Paul having the same done to him, ironic.

Isn't odd the people who say this will tear us apart, are the ones who are trying to bring it to realization?

[belian78]

Ha... Bama's reference to braveheart is all too accurate, but not in a way he thinks.

In braveheart, Robert the Bruce was supposed to be an ally of William Wallace, but it was he that betrayed Wallace and ultimately led to his capture/torture/death.

[BamaFanNKy]

Ha... Bama's reference to braveheart is all too accurate, but not in a way he thinks.

In braveheart, Robert the Bruce was supposed to be an ally of William Wallace, but it was he that betrayed Wallace and ultimately led to his capture/torture/death.

Hmmm. You do realize I said we were the Irish. Both Robert the Bruce and Wallace were Scottish. So..... yeah.

By the way, Robert The Bruce is a great beer by 3Floyds.

[LibertyEagle]

Love is a strong word. If I loved him you think I would be pledging my support and vote to him. Then again, it is cute to say "I love him and Promote him." It's like when people said Ron "took marching orders from Ahmadinejad." Trying to make sure we don't burn bridges with people who are part of our movement is seen as "promoting" to you? False accusations and catchy soundbites from a guy who has a avatar of Ron Paul having the same done to him, ironic.

Isn't odd the people who say this will tear us apart, are the ones who are trying to bring it to realization?

Bama, with all due respect, I'm not the one who is starting threads about another candidate. You are.

In my opinion, I think it's great if Gary wants to run, but instead of trying to mine from Ron Paul's supporters, he should be joining us and trying to bring other Republicans over to more libertarian thought. Just trying to convert RP supporters over to his campaign isn't doing one thing to advance liberty and in fact is destroying the chances either candidate has.

[BamaFanNKy]

Bama, with all due respect, I'm not the one who is starting threads about another candidate. You are.

In my opinion, I think it's great if Gary wants to run, but instead of trying to mine from Ron Paul's supporters, he should be joining us and trying to bring other Republicans over to more libertarian thought. Just trying to convert RP supporters over to his campaign isn't doing one thing to advance liberty and in fact is destroying the chances either candidate has.

AGAIN, this isn't a thread in support of Gary or his positions. It's in the calm down category. I've not asked for a Moneybomb donation to his campaign (I actually didn't appreciate that thread). I also don't appreciate the crap from Raimondo since most know he's a dishonest reporter. I'm not hear or supporting Ron to tear down other candidates from our community.

Oh FYI, this past week I got 6 voters to change their support of Romney, Trump and Gingrich to Ron. I also use my blog for Ron. I also donate to Ron and talk with his staffers. So.... this "Your here to kill our chances" claim is B.S. I will by nature correct statements if they are wrong. As the guy who said Gary left his wife because she had cancer. Utter evil B.S.

Rise above it and move on. It is bad form to bash and trash people who we would support (majority said they supported Gary for Senate) for other offices down the road.

I am observing some familiar writing styles having fights on Gary Johnson's facebook page. Um.... Bad form x100. I'm done with the GJ stuff. Go on and hate and be nasty. It's always been a great way to show people that we are a big tent welcoming new people......?

[AlexMerced]

AGAIN, this isn't a thread in support of Gary or his positions. It's in the calm down category. I've not asked for a Moneybomb donation to his campaign (I actually didn't appreciate that thread). I also don't appreciate the crap from Raimondo since most know he's a dishonest reporter. I'm not hear or supporting Ron to tear down other candidates from our community.

Oh FYI, this past week I got 6 voters to change their support of Romney, Trump and Gingrich to Ron. I also use my blog for Ron. I also donate to Ron and talk with his staffers. So.... this "Your here to kill our chances" claim is B.S. I will by nature correct statements if they are wrong. As the guy who said Gary left his wife because she had cancer. Utter evil B.S.

Rise above it and move on. It is bad form to bash and trash people who we would support (majority said they supported Gary for Senate) for other offices down the road.

I am observing some familiar writing styles having fights on Gary Johnson's facebook page. Um.... Bad form x100. I'm done with the GJ stuff. Go on and hate and be nasty. It's always been a great way to show people that we are a big tent welcoming new people......?

FTW

My video is not a pro-anyone video, while I do say in the video my support goes to Ron Paul, the purpose of the video was to tell people they are better focusing on how to steal Romney, Pawlenty, Gingrich voters than duking it out over 9% of the vote.

Seriously... we're acting like Fox news with this "your for us or against us" type behavior. What's the point of change if it just means we become the power we fought to remove.

[Imperial]

I think they are very different in important ways, so I don't think 'either would do', but you have the Gary Johnson sign in your window, so you are supporting a different candidate.

I don't have the Ron Paul sign in my window because it is signed and I did not want to ruin it with tape on it. I put the Gary Johnson sign in my window because one side of it had already fallen on the ground and I wasn't as worried about it. To be clear, I like elements of both of their campaigns and would be willing to work for either. It is only May of 2011; I want to see which one catches on, although I am working more actively to promote Dr. Paul. I am planning to donate on May 5th, for example.


Your perception is skewed by what you have surrounded yourself with. It's not the active folk who make the difference, its the people who come out of the wood work in this democratic process we have.

You are not going to get very far in politics if you cannot do both. Rand Paul excited some people in the primary and got them active (particularly Tea Partiers), but he had to win the respect of the Republican establishment too. Anybody notice Rand was a hypocrite and took money from Senators who voted for TARP? Why would he ever do that?

We did the first part, getting people active who did not previously care about politics or were disillusioned. We need to still keep doing that, but if we have the establishment always working against us we will not be able to change the system. They are not mutually exclusive; they both complement each other. Of course I have plenty of friends who are disengaged and I make my ideas clear whenever they are around. But we have already gotten the low-hanging fruit. It is time to branch out.

Everybody is skewed by those they surround themselves with. You, me, everybody on this forum, etc. The point doesn't leave much significance.



GARY WHO?

Good fuckin luck with that. We've spent 5 years marketing the liberty ideals with Ron Paul strapped to the front of it... waste of time apparently?

GARY WHO?

Because I live in MN also, and I could ask 400 of my local fb friends and I guarantee not one of them knows who Gary is.


There are some who don't like the style Dr. Paul uses to spread his message or have some little qualm with the candidate over the ideas. That is no fault to him, but it does mean we have to expand our marketing campaign. Gary provides the opportunity for a fresh face who can get those that Ron Paul cannot. He is not very well known yet, but that will change as he builds a brand.

[LibertyEagle]

Rise above it and move on. It is bad form to bash and trash people who we would support (majority said they supported Gary for Senate) for other offices down the road.

Go read what I said, again. You clearly missed the point. Whether one supports Paul or Johnson, we need to attract people who are not already IN the movement. So, people going to Paul forums and websites to recruit is very poor form. We all need to be going after da other folks. You know, people who are not already true believers.

I would think you would agree with that.



I am observing some familiar writing styles having fights on Gary Johnson's facebook page. Um.... Bad form x100. I'm done with the GJ stuff. Go on and hate and be nasty. It's always been a great way to show people that we are a big tent welcoming new people......?

Oh geez. You seriously must be kidding. I haven't ever visited his Facebook page, much less posted on it. Go forth and spew your libel elsewhere, dude.

Talk about bad form. Sheesh.

[BamaFanNKy]

Oh geez. You seriously must be kidding. I haven't ever visited his Facebook page, much less posted on it. Go forth and spew your libel elsewhere, dude.

Talk about bad form. Sheesh.

I would have said you..... I had moved on from you and now I move on from this topic.

[LibertyEagle]

Anybody notice Rand was a hypocrite and took money from Senators who voted for TARP? Why would he ever do that?

You are joking, right? Are you really saying that you expect Ron or Rand to turn away money that is freely given them to run their campaigns?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with accepting money from anyone. The sole issue is that there are no strings attached and with Ron and Rand, I am quite sure there are none.

Think about what you are saying here.

[LibertyEagle]

I would have said you..... I had moved on from you and now I move on from this topic.

Well, you are wrong and you owe me an apology.

[BamaFanNKy]

Well, you are wrong and you owe me an apology.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpugp6DIb3I

You project crap on me and expect an apology. That's rich. Not my problem you want to play games and now demand an apology like Rudy.

[LibertyEagle]

Oh, stop it with your temper tantrum. It's getting really old.