Libertarianism is Emotionally Draining

[Vessol]

I use libertarianism as a all encompassing term for the sake of simplicity.

For the past 2+ years since I've become involved in libertarianism/free markets/voluntaryism/etc I've noticed a cycle I tend to go through. It seems to revolve around one week where I become highly engrossed in following current events, learning more about economics and philosophy, discussion, etc. And then I become burned out and for about another week I try not to care, or I just wish I could be ignorant, I slack on my "studies", etc. It's not a very constructive cycle. Does anyone else go through this?

A part of it I feel has to do with how emotionally draining it can be.

We as libertarians(again, an all encompassing term) warn about the government and central planning to society at large and people in our own individual lives. People, ignore us and roll their eyes more often than not. They tell us that we are paranoid, or that we are pessimistic, called 'chicken littles', etc. I'm sure you have all heard it.

Time passes. And what we predicted has come to pass. Generally speaking of course, we do not have crystal balls. You mention this to people and they only make more excuses, or they shrug it off, or they outright forget what they said before.
One particular recent example I had was a classmate in my Western Civ. class who I told at the beginning of the Libyan "no fly zone" that it would dramatically expand and would eventually encompass ground troops. He told me that I was outright wrong and it would be over quickly. This past week I brought up the fact that NATO is planning ground troops and the war is still ongoing, I then brought up what he said. Instead of conceding that I was correct in my predictions, he pulled an Orwellian "Wellllll, I never quite said that you were wrong, I just think that you were being too pessimistic about the situation."

We rarely gain new "converts", even when we are right. I've seen a few here and there, and forum members here have mentioned it, but by and large most people will just manipulate their senses into accepting it.

This is particularly true in Austrian economics, which has warned against the whole business cycle and the voodoo economics of Keynes.

The truly emotionally draining part about it all is that I don't want to be right. Sure, there may be the self-fulfilling thought that I was right, but what I and others predict is downright bad shit.

Anyone have some advice on not getting so drained from this stuff?

I don't know how Dr. Paul can do it. Or how Mises, Hayek, or Rothbard did it their whole lives.

[Sentinelrv]

The problem is that most people are so emotionally programmed into their daily life, always responding and reacting to everything that goes on around them, always thinking short-term. Similarly, most politicians never think too deep about the long-term consequences of their voting decisions. They just emotionally react to whatever issue comes at them next, instead of using the constitution as a device to help suppress those emotional reactions and allow them to make sound decisions based on logic and reason. So in the end, most people focus too much on the short-term and not enough on the long-term consequences of their actions. If they did, then we'd have people studying philosophy and economics in order to vote for the right candidate as well as more politicians like Ron Paul that would use the constitution as a filter on all their voting decisions.Sadly, we don't live in a world where most people are like this, so we need to resort to whatever emotional argument we can in order to influence them to our cause. Just maybe, as in my case, they do wake up one day.

All I can say in your case is to not take the rejection of your ideas personally. Aim for the goal of converting them, but if it doesn't happen, don't get discouraged. Nothing will get you down faster than the constant thinking that you're wasting your time. Just believe that it is making a difference and continue to do what you're doing, maybe altering your approach based on the response you get. Doing the same thing with the same person will only get you the same result, basic NLP stuff.

[TheNcredibleEgg]

This is particularly true in Austrian economics, which has warned against the whole business cycle and the voodoo economics of Keynes.



Alas - that quote is the most infuriating. I think the situation will not change in regard to that quote. The problem is the short term - always the short term. To fix the Keynesian debt orgy is going to cause short term pain. The recent (ongoing) recession would have been worse to fix the problem. It probably would have been classified a depression. (The country has been living above its means so long - it's going to be a tough adjustment to Austrian economics.) But it would have been a short depression and the country would have likely already started a REAL recovery - but nope - inflationary depression here we come.

That's the problem. The people refuse to accept short term struggles when there is a politician (GWB or now Obama) who promises immediate fixes. Even if it brings ultimate collapse.

No one cares about the long term and it just frustrates me to no ends. I just want to scream and shout nonstop at people who don't get it. Just sacrifice for a little fkn while. The country has been living above its means too long. We need to stop it while we can. I know Austrian economics (if fully implemented) would fix the problems and make the long term so much better - but nope - very few get it.

It's just like I'm stuck in line in a herd of sheep - marching off a cliff.

[Sentinelrv]

I've studied human behavior and I can tell you that it's like this for most people and with just about every issue you could possibly think of. The cause of weight gain is the result of expressing no control over moment to moment thoughts, so when somebody is driving down the road and they see McDonald's, they automatically respond to it and want to eat. It's the same with exercise, immediately thinking about the pain it would bring them, thus causing them to avoid it. Somebody has a big work assignment but look, there's a great movie on TV! How about the guy that maxes out his credit cards and gets into debt. Each case is a result of expressing no control over their short-term focus or moment to moment thoughts, which causes them to react emotionally to everything in their environment. The only way to stop the madness is to become conscious of the unconscious emotional patterns you're acting out and change them in the moment. This unconsciousness of people is what caused our politicians to destroy this country. The constitution is supposed to act as a filter for decision making, blocking out emotional decisions, the same as when a trader uses a trading plan in order to prevent himself from trading emotionally, something that would cause untold damage to his account. This is why Ron Paul is better than them all. He has the ability to delay reaction and think his decisions through, a quality most people just do not have.

[TER]

I don't know how Dr. Paul can do it.

Well, I think most of us here can certainly empathize with you. For me, the answer is easy, really. I find comfort and strength in praying to God. I imagine as a Christian, Dr. Paul also prays for strength and patience and guidance. I don't know if you are a believer, but for those who do believe, this often times seems to give great consolation when everything else fails.

[A Son of Liberty]

Vessol - I'm right there with ya. A few approaches I've taken have tempered the highs and lows:

1. I try to relax about the whole situation. We're trying to cure a well entrenched, global "disease". Recognize that it will take years... a lifetime... generations to overcome this malady. I accept that "this is the world we live in", and peacefully attempt to make what small in-roads I can within my own abilities against such a huge problem.

2. When I reach out to the "uninitiated", I do so in peace, and with a smile. I was convinced of the objective truth of individual sovereignty by first understanding the philosophy of it, so that's usually where I start with folks, though each situation is different. I try not to open with what I see as the consequences of our current social structure, as most folks hear that sort of talk and either find it absurd (normalcy bias), or too awful to consider. I think Stephan Molyneux has some good stuff on this topic at his site. (http://www.freedomainradio.com/)

3. Personally, I can obsess about this stuff. I'll read Mises or LRC or listen to podcasts for hours at a time, to the point where it has interfered with other areas of my life where I used to find enjoyment and relaxation. I've tried to temper my studies/newshounding for the pursuit of more mundane interests that are less intensive, and that don't carrry such gravity, social consequence.

4. Have a beer. It's a jungle out there. :) Cheers!

[A Son of Liberty]

Well, I think most of us here can certainly empathize with you. For me, the answer is easy, really. I find comfort and strength in praying to God. I imagine as a Christian, Dr. Paul also prays for strength and patience and guidance. I don't know if you are a believer, but for those who do believe, this often times seems to give great consolation when everything else fails.

:thumbs:

Faith has given me courage in the face of what I (we) believe is coming. Faith has given me the strength to speak about these things with a smile on my face.

This is the real world, and this is my life in it.

[nayjevin]

I'm still learning to balance it all, but I'll say it's gotten easier to stay positive than I ever imagined it would. So I'm guessing if you're thinking about it and trying to improve yourself and your approaches, it'll only take time.

[hugolp]

It can be, but in general political activism is a bit draining.

When I feel fustrated I try to think that there is only so much I can do. We are fighting against an organized band of thugs that have resources and power beyond our imagination (they have government schools to indoctrinate children).

[Teaser Rate]

By reading your post, I doubt libertarianism is the root cause of your hardships, it just seems to me like you're just taking yourself too seriously.

Put it this way, you're not a prophet or have access to some great hidden knowledge which can save the world; you're just a flawed human being with equally flawed beliefs. Just like everyone else.

[zadrock]

Whenever I get frustrated or angry, I just remind myself how much tougher it was for Mises or Rothbard. If they could do it under those circumstances, surely I can manage under present-day ones. There is such an enormous community of libertarians compared with the past. Granted, most of it is online, but that's better than nothing. I find that going to events like C4L conferences or CPAC really helps me recharge. It reminds me that I'm not crazy for disagreeing with all my friends and family.

That said, people are changing. They are starting to see what we figured out a little bit sooner.

As far as practical advice, when debating with others, focus on the areas where you agree. If you're talking to liberals, stress the antiwar and pro-civil liberties aspects. If you're talking to conservatives, stress the lower taxes, pro-business aspects. Look for common ground instead of always fighting. That used to be me. And I agree, it was draining to always be fighting. So I stopped.

The thing that gets me now is the general apathy. At least if someone is politically involved or aware, even if they are a socialist or a neocon, at least there is SOME common ground to be found. But the people who get excited over Kate's wedding dress and other trivialities while ignoring our loss of liberties are the ones I can't deal with. But at some point, they won't be able to afford gas or food and they'll remember that we warned this would happen.

Z

[DamianTV]

This whole thread could be most easily summarized as Dealing with the Bullshit in this country is Emotionally Draining.

[NewRightLibertarian]

We're going up against one of the most evil governments in history. It is a long, angering, thankless battle. Just stay in it and keep fighting.

[GunnyFreedom]

Turning a big massive ship (society, the state) involves a great deal of inertia and mass. It is tiring work. Occasional vacations are required to avoid losing one's mind, I grant that as fact. It helps though, to be the first ones in generations to actually see the ship's course adjusting...

[Cowlesy]

You need at least a few three day periods where you completely unplug from the electronic gizmos and not read the news. Honestly, it helps tremendously.

Unfortunately you come back, bring up Drudgereport, and find out the world is still going to hell in a handbasket.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ

[belian78]

Reading the OP I could see myself writing it, as I'm sure many if us long time members can, I experience the same thing.

I'll be really gung Ho for a while and talking to people about monetary and foreign policy, debating and discussing... Then inevitably after wading those waters for a time I start to get run down by the disconnect from people. It's almost as if even though they agree you are probably right, they just can't let themselves care.

In those times I lay low, and refrain from slamming my head against the wall for a while. I usually will just come to the forums here and 'listen' to the conversations going on. This place is like a docking station to recharge your batteries. Then a funny thing usually happens. People that previously infuriated me with their inability to grasp what I was saying will come to me and mention something they saw or heard, and they will be so excited because they remember our conversation and what I said. They aren't like instant converts or anything, but going forward they come to me all the time to get my opinion on things going on.

So again, that really excites me and before you know it I'm back diving into the deep waters of discussion and debate. It's a circle, and its normal, just find something to help the lows not be so low and you'll be ok. Just know that many before us and many after will go through the same things as we do.

An inspiring side note here... Most of the people that come to me now can't wait to start campaigning for Ron. We're actually planning a big fundraiser at a local bowling alley for the middle if the summer. :D

[DeadheadForPaul]

Vessol,
You are not alone in feeling burned out from time to time. It is very frustrating to be like Cassandra in Greek Mythology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra) whom had the power of prophecy but was cursed so that no one would believe her. We understand the complexities of this world better than the average person and also have more passion and education on the matters. As a result, it is frustrating when we are dismissed because we truly care and know we are on the right side. It is - to be honest - painful. I know I have faded out of the movement and back to normal life for months at a time due to this very frustration

We must remember that we will never be a majority. However, that does not mean we should take our ball and go home.

Quite the opposite, we should be even more outspoken and stand strong. Not all whom oppose us are beyond hope. Many people here were adamantly opposed to our movement. There are still quite a few out there whom will join our ranks in due time. We must go out to them to bring them to their rightful place as friends and members in this movement

As Ron said, we are the remnant

[outspoken]

I must attest as I'm am sure Ron Paul would agree, without God I can do nothing. If you don't have faith in something greater and bigger than yourself then yes indeed it feels as if the world is on your shoulders.

[Madly_Sane]

Does anyone else go through this?

I go through these cycles as well. I usually go through each step in the cycle using up to about 6 months though instead of 1 week. I am currently on the downside of things at the moment and probably won't be able to kick things back into gear for another month or so.

[Chester Copperpot]

Its not that Libertarianism is draining.. Its that fighting the system is draining...

We all go through it.. Every now and then we have to call a time out to recharge our batteries.

But once we get to the top then itll be the statists who get drained.

[Travlyr]

There is not yet enough focus on the root of the problem. Ron Paul writes and talks about it all the time and has for years upon years. Mises talked and wrote about it. Rothbard, Mullins, Pound, and many others have pointed to the cancer that humanity has had to abide by since the times of Babylon. It was so important that the libertarians of 1792 called for the death penalty for anyone who engaged in it.

Debasement of currency is the root of cause of our problems. Here is the most excellent solution I have ever read ... Mending Our Monetary Maladies | Interview with Dr. Edwin Vieira
(http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?289698)
There are no political solutions. Yet, politics is front and center of our lives ... on TV ... on radio ... "news" ... Internet ... and the most popular topic on the forums. People are not yet ready to fix it. :(

General Politics (152 Viewing)
Economics & Sound Money (31 Viewing)

Nonetheless, no one can have liberty until we deal honestly with each other. Pure peaceful anarchy is not possible if people are allowed to cheat others. The same goes for a Republic, a Democracy, Dictatorships, or ANY other method of organizing, or not organizing, society. Honesty is required.

[1000-points-of-fright]

Its not that Libertarianism is draining.. Its that fighting the system is draining.

I was going to say something similar. Libertarianism isn't emotionally draining... other people are emotionally draining.

[Sola_Fide]

One person I knew who was trying to cheer me up once told me that I should "not read the news for a while".

I could tell it was merely a helpful suggestion, but at the time I thought "This dude is completely uninformed and ignorance is bliss".

But as I look back on it, I really think he is right. The news is depressing man...I mean really depressing. Sometimes we just need to detach for a week or a month or so. I am long overdue for a detachment.

[Seraphim]

Debate from a philosophical standpoint, not a political one.

It works - REALLY WELL.

[fisharmor]

Hey Vessol, IIRC you're pretty young. I'm not an old man, but I'm not a young man either, and I'm starting to realize that I'm straddling that line.
I don't know how many things you have to juggle, but if you're young, the number is likely small. So you're probably used to putting intense focus on things for long periods.
You're never going to stop being drained. It just gets easier.
Having two small kids, being a member of a church body which has largely apostatized, living in a house that was built in 1950 and hasn't been kept up, finding out that you need to get extensive dental work done... eventually, saving the world becomes another thing to deal with.

[georgiaboy]

Cycles for sure here. Frustrations abound; thick skulls frustrate, and out and out lies and evil infuriate.

Stepping back and getting a bigger picture perspective helps me, not just in politics, but in everything.

Also, understanding that I can only do what I can do.

Finally, God's ultimately in control, and in the final ending, He wins. :)

[nayjevin]

I think the detachment is only necessary if the process was unsound.

There are people who fight the good fight on and on and don't get drained, or not like most of us do. They are doing it right. I'm not there yet, but watching some comedy, playing or listening to music for awhile can do it whereas I used to need a longer vacation.

Also I've gotten a bit better at avoiding what doesn't play to my strengths. Lack of success at convincing in certain areas is more likely to breed frustration. So I stick more to the topics and situations I'm good at and don't try to do it all at once.

If I expect to change a mind, I feel I'm setting myself up for failure, but if I'm trying to raise new ideas or good questions people haven't thought of, I can almost always accomplish that.

Side note: I have a friend who just said 'sheeple will be interested in whatever the media is.' About two years ago he told me about his economics class and I talked a little bit about Austrian economics. No more selling required - he's now into buying the dips on honest money and is radiation prepared. Just by planting a seed and being an example (a flawed example at that ;) ).

[acptulsa]

Libertarianism isn't exhausting. Seeing the rise of totalitarianism unchecked is exhausting.

Edit: Shoulda read the thread. Might've known Mike Mitrosky would beat me to it.

[WilliamC]

By reading your post, I doubt libertarianism is the root cause of your hardships, it just seems to me like you're just taking yourself too seriously.

Put it this way, you're not a prophet or have access to some great hidden knowledge which can save the world; you're just a flawed human being with equally flawed beliefs. Just like everyone else.

Ouch!

Ya gotta admit though it's hard to watch the vast stupidity of most folks when it comes to economics/politics.

Were it not for that we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now.

And no I don't do collective guilt, I'm not responsible for the poor decisions of others.

Most of the worlds problems are due to other peoples stupid or evil actions, and there is very little those of us who recognize this can do about it.

[kahless]

I was going to say something similar. Libertarianism isn't emotionally draining... other people are emotionally draining.

Exactly and it goes in cycles with people to. Sometimes they are receptive but after awhile they are lured back to the R or D team talking points mentality. They will have listened to countless hours of Foxnews, talk radio and the MSM being programmed to believe in big government Neoconservatism or Progressive polices.

[White Bear Lake]

I fall back into sports whenever I get tired of reading Rothbard, Mises, and following current events. I kind of cycle between following economics/politics and then following the Twins and Vikes. Of course when your teams are performing like the Twins are now, it doesn't help your stress level.

Anyways, if worst comes to worst I can always retreat to a lake cabin up in NE Minnesota and hope the government never finds me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CldD6Vg1GvY

[Andrew-Austin]

I was going to say something similar. Libertarianism isn't emotionally draining... other people are emotionally draining.

Only if you are trying to chip at them and carve them in to the statue you want, only to realize... you can't change people.

[muzzled dogg]

Get a girl

[Wesker1982]

I went through this really bad this last winter. Any negative emotions I had were multiplied x10 cuz I think I was having a bad case of cabin fever.

Now that it is spring I still get frustrated sometimes, what helps me:

1. Drinking ONCE a week. This could be considered horrible advice but if not abused its alright imo.
2. Going to the gym 3+ times a week
3. Video Games
4. Thinking about how far the philosophy has progressed in the last few years. It seems like there has been more progress made between 2007 to 2011 then there was between all the 1900s to 2006 (TY Ron Paul and the Internet+Mises.org). Maybe I have convinced myself of this so I don't go crazy but who knows.

This lecture cheered me up a bit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pguucwXtEic

[Indy Vidual]

I use libertarianism as a all encompassing term for the sake of simplicity.

For the past 2+ years since I've become involved in libertarianism/free markets/voluntaryism/etc I've noticed a cycle I tend to go through. It seems to revolve around one week where I become highly engrossed in following current events, learning more about economics and philosophy, discussion, etc. And then I become burned out and for about another week I try not to care, or I just wish I could be ignorant, I slack on my "studies", etc. It's not a very constructive cycle. Does anyone else go through this?
...

Does anyone else go through this?
YES! I do...

When you care, then you get exposed to too much negativity, War, Police State, Fear, SHTF, etc.

I'll get back to you later, right now I'm trying not to care. :p

[heavenlyboy34]

Get a girl

Depending on the girl, that can exacerbate the problem significantly. ;) lolz

[Vessol]

Thanks all for the replies.

Yeah, my choice of words for the topic matter wasn't probably the best choice. I was at a loss of words as to what to write, but you all got it out right.


Well, I think most of us here can certainly empathize with you. For me, the answer is easy, really. I find comfort and strength in praying to God. I imagine as a Christian, Dr. Paul also prays for strength and patience and guidance. I don't know if you are a believer, but for those who do believe, this often times seems to give great consolation when everything else fails.

I tend to try to stay away from religious discussions, but I'm an atheist. I can understand and actually kind of envy those who have faith because it provides them comfort, but I can't really just accept things and not think about them indepth. That's just part of what I am. I don't want to debate my beliefs, I'm just putting them out there.


Vessol - I'm right there with ya. A few approaches I've taken have tempered the highs and lows:

1. I try to relax about the whole situation. We're trying to cure a well entrenched, global "disease". Recognize that it will take years... a lifetime... generations to overcome this malady. I accept that "this is the world we live in", and peacefully attempt to make what small in-roads I can within my own abilities against such a huge problem.

2. When I reach out to the "uninitiated", I do so in peace, and with a smile. I was convinced of the objective truth of individual sovereignty by first understanding the philosophy of it, so that's usually where I start with folks, though each situation is different. I try not to open with what I see as the consequences of our current social structure, as most folks hear that sort of talk and either find it absurd (normalcy bias), or too awful to consider. I think Stephan Molyneux has some good stuff on this topic at his site. (http://www.freedomainradio.com/)

3. Personally, I can obsess about this stuff. I'll read Mises or LRC or listen to podcasts for hours at a time, to the point where it has interfered with other areas of my life where I used to find enjoyment and relaxation. I've tried to temper my studies/newshounding for the pursuit of more mundane interests that are less intensive, and that don't carrry such gravity, social consequence.

4. Have a beer. It's a jungle out there. :) Cheers!

Some great points. I'm not as aggressive as I fear that I may have come off in my post. I try to go from neutral positions or positive sometimes, agreeing with them and expounding on that.
I'm in one of those phases myself currently. I worked an eleven hour day and during the slow period when I was stocking, I had my mp3 player on listening to a podcast. And right when I got off work I went right back to reading and learning. It's quite fun really.
And on the last point, beer truly is amazing. I cannot comprehend those who enjoy getting drunk when just getting tipsy and relaxing is so much better.


By reading your post, I doubt libertarianism is the root cause of your hardships, it just seems to me like you're just taking yourself too seriously.

Put it this way, you're not a prophet or have access to some great hidden knowledge which can save the world; you're just a flawed human being with equally flawed beliefs. Just like everyone else.

I agree. A part of it I believe has to do with projection of my own personal problems. Certainly my interest in this subject matter has become a kind of crutch. I certainly don't believe I am a prophet, but I do have a certain resolve that I have the correct opinions based off of empirical evidence and logic.



The thing that gets me now is the general apathy. At least if someone is politically involved or aware, even if they are a socialist or a neocon, at least there is SOME common ground to be found. But the people who get excited over Kate's wedding dress and other trivialities while ignoring our loss of liberties are the ones I can't deal with. But at some point, they won't be able to afford gas or food and they'll remember that we warned this would happen.

This is my biggest pet peeve as well. It's very rare to find anyone who even cares about it beyond the immediate situation. I've met only a few people who had truly solid beliefs and were not apathetic, certainly wish I had more time to talk with them.


An inspiring side note here... Most of the people that come to me now can't wait to start campaigning for Ron. We're actually planning a big fundraiser at a local bowling alley for the middle if the summer. :D

I think that may be the primary contributor to the posting of this topic. Despite my attempted outreach to many people, I have none of the positive effects many here seem to have. I talk about politics and philosophy all the time, and everyone just tells me to shut up. Friends, co-workers, family. None of them want to care.

I think that is why I felt more charged than I felt in years after CPAC.


Hey Vessol, IIRC you're pretty young. I'm not an old man, but I'm not a young man either, and I'm starting to realize that I'm straddling that line.
I don't know how many things you have to juggle, but if you're young, the number is likely small. So you're probably used to putting intense focus on things for long periods.

Aye in my early twenties. I'd say you are spot on in your assessment that I tend to put too much energy into one thing at a time.


I went through this really bad this last winter. Any negative emotions I had were multiplied x10 cuz I think I was having a bad case of cabin fever.

Now that it is spring I still get frustrated sometimes, what helps me:

1. Drinking ONCE a week. This could be considered horrible advice but if not abused its alright imo.
2. Going to the gym 3+ times a week
3. Video Games
4. Thinking about how far the philosophy has progressed in the last few years. It seems like there has been more progress made between 2007 to 2011 then there was between all the 1900s to 2006 (TY Ron Paul and the Internet+Mises.org). Maybe I have convinced myself of this so I don't go crazy but who knows.


I drink/smoke in moderation. It gets boring if it is anything more. The gym is probably a thing I could really improve on, between working and going to school full time I've been neglecting myself personally, with school ending soon I'll have to really work on changing that. Video games are definitely a plus, that and movies and fictional books.

I do agree though that we have made amazing progress from where we were 25 years ago(or even 10 years ago). I probably could not hold up my beliefs if I did not have the internet and the community therefore as some sort of "lifeline" to sane and rational people.




Get a girl

Probably the most pertinent post in this thread lmao. That's another topic for another forum, but I can certainly tell you that it isn't for a lack of trying. Let's just say that I can't wait wait to get out of this town where it is exceedingly rare to find any girl above the age of 18 who is not married to a marine.

[ninepointfive]

keeping inspired can be hard, but you need to base success off of developing yourself rather than being upset with other people.

[manuel]

To the OP, I know exactly how you feel. I have been in a depression mode for years now. I am in a feeling of hopelessness for the country. I am truly amazed that Ron Paul can continue to do this. Other than donating the most I can to Ron Paul, I really don't talk about politics to friends and family anymore.

[Teaser Rate]

Ouch!

Ya gotta admit though it's hard to watch the vast stupidity of most folks when it comes to economics/politics.

Were it not for that we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now.

And no I don't do collective guilt, I'm not responsible for the poor decisions of others.

Most of the worlds problems are due to other peoples stupid or evil actions, and there is very little those of us who recognize this can do about it.

Well, not really, I don't consider myself superior to someone because they have different interests than I do. I don't follow politics because I believe I can make a real change through my participation, I follow it because I enjoy it. If someone enjoys baseball instead, then I don't really mind if they don't know how many electoral votes Missouri has.

I also disagree with the notion that the world is in a huge mess right now and that stupid people and their stupid decisions are to blame. All else being equal, I wouldn't want to live in any other time in history than right now. The world is not going to hell, the world is fine; in fact, better than it's ever been for human civilization. More people live better and longer lives than ever before and that trend is going to continue in the future.

Of course, that isn't saying that we should accept bad things we can do something about. I guess the difference between me and the majority of posters here is that I'm more willing to accept gradual rather than revolutionary change. History is filled with groups and individuals who were sure that their revolution would solve all of the world's problems, and they've always been proven wrong. I doubt a Ron Paul revolution as many here envision it would end up any differently.

[I Don't Vote]

Drugs help.

Live life man. Politics isn't everything and certainly shouldn't take up most of your free time. If your life gets bogged down by politics then they've won.

[nayjevin]

To the OP, I know exactly how you feel. I have been in a depression mode for years now. I am in a feeling of hopelessness for the country. I am truly amazed that Ron Paul can continue to do this. Other than donating the most I can to Ron Paul, I really don't talk about politics to friends and family anymore.

What helped me was changing my habits, pardon me if this doesn't apply to you, but I had to start looking for good news. Makes me less aware of day to day current events outside of liberty and Ron Paul, but keeps me happier.

[Wesker1982]

Despite my attempted outreach to many people, I have none of the positive effects many here seem to have. I talk about politics and philosophy all the time, and everyone just tells me to shut up. Friends, co-workers, family. None of them want to care.


I feel ya. Sometimes I wish I were in a state of ignorance, but what makes me feel a bit better is knowing that this whole system will eventually come crashing down and I will find mental security knowing what is going on around me. When the SHTF (at least economically) I wouldn't be surprised if these people who never listen to us rush to us for answers in hordes. Then we can be like I TRIED TELLING YOU!!!. and then we can borrow them our copies of Meltdown, Economics in One Lesson, How an Economy Grows and Why it Crashes, etc.

[Anti Federalist]

Red Pill +Rep

[Romulus]

Debate from a philosophical standpoint, not a political one.

It works - REALLY WELL.

THIS.

Tom Woods said it best. Fighting for what you believe is fun. You're not always going to win, but it's always going to be fun. Otherwise, whats the point.

I never argue politics. Never. You come off like a zealot trying to "convert" others. The whole idea of "converting" is repulsive to me. It reeks of religious dogma and forcing a belief system.

I always discuss philosophy. It's universal. Eventually sound arguments take root. Logical humans don't convert, they understand and that is voluntary for them.

Love this quote:
"Everybody talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it." - Mark Twain

Most folks just don't have a general interest in how the machine works - they just like the widgets! They dont share our passion for truth. They just want to talk about sports and weather. I don't have those sort of friends - I can do without the shallow relationships. I would rather share a debate with a die hard liberal, then have to listen to shallow cultural or meaningless discussions. This is fulfilling to me. Not the fact that some people don't share my view, but the fact that I'm lucky enough to have discussions with depth and substance. That is truely a very rare occurrence in the people who I'm surrounded by.

[Sola_Fide]

UFC 129 is happening today!

I don't want anything to do with politics today:)