We want Obama to be re-elected

[Havax]

Why?

Facing some cold facts: Ron Paul won't win this election. Neither will Gary Johnson.

The alternative republican candidates are awful and no matter who it is (I think it will be Romney) if elected, would just satisfy the pendulum of the American people who sway between mainstream democrats and republicans. Nothing will change, and we will just go back to another mainstream democrat in 4 years.

However, the longer Obama stays in there, the more polarized the republican base comes to our more "extreme" vision of liberty. 4 more years will have America absolutely sick of the wars Obama has us in, the economy will be even worse, and a younger, more well-spoken Rand Paul will have an excellent chance of being preisdent in 2016.

Summary: Ron and Gary spread more ideas of freedom in the debates. Obama re-elected. More people come to our side. Rand sweeps in already with mainstream republican support and takes this country back in 2016.

[rp08orbust]

Why?

Facing some cold facts: Ron Paul won't win this election. Neither will Gary Johnson.

The alternative republican candidates are awful and no matter who it is (I think it will be Romney) if elected, would just satisfy the pendulum of the American people who sway between mainstream democrats and republicans. Nothing will change, and we will just go back to another mainstream democrat in 4 years.

However, the longer Obama stays in there, the more polarized the republican base comes to our more "extreme" vision of liberty. 4 more years will have America absolutely sick of the wars Obama has us in, the economy will be even worse, and a younger, more well-spoken Rand Paul will have an excellent chance of being preisdent in 2016.

Summary: Ron and Gary spread more ideas of freedom in the debates. Obama re-elected. More people come to our side. Rand sweeps in already with mainstream republican support and takes this country back in 2016.

Let's see if Ron Paul wins the Ames straw poll first, and if he does, what happens afterward, before we discount the possibility of president Paul in 2012.

[Deborah K]

What a defeatist attitude. You have him losing before he even officially announces. Useless!!!

[Havax]

Let's see if Ron Paul wins the Ames straw poll first, and if he does, what happens afterward.

Irrelevant to my point. Assuming Ron doesn't win, this is what we want to happen. Obviously and by all means anyway, we should do everything we can do try and have Ron win.

[specsaregood]

"We want Obama to be re-elected"

speak for yourself. I'm here and want Dr. Paul elected.

[Havax]

What a defeatist attitude. You have him losing before he even officially announces. Useless!!!

No it's just realistic. It's a 100% lock he's going to officially run. I have no faith in the general populous to come to their senses. We've got virtually all the mainstream republicans in the mainstream media against us.

[Havax]

"We want Obama to be re-elected"

speak for yourself. I'm here and want Dr. Paul elected.

Thanks for not reading my post. If you had, you'd know I also want Dr. Paul elected.

No one has addressed my point. Perhaps to make it easier just reply to it as a hypothetical: ASSUMING RON WON'T WIN THE NOMINATION...this is what we want to happen.

[specsaregood]

No it's just realistic. It's a 100% lock he's going to officially run. I have no faith in the general populous to come to their senses. We've got virtually all the mainstream republicans in the mainstream media against us.

Well stand aside then and let us do our thing.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

It's a win-win either way IMO.

Lets say Ron Paul wins, that means American have awakened and now have an understanding of where this country is headed. Good thing.

Let say he doesn't stand a chance and Obama walks into his 2nd term.

The economy and nation will continue to go to shit, and his policies will take the blame.

[rp08orbust]

I think what we're objecting to is your assertion that Ron Paul's defeat is a "fact".

[jmdrake]

Irrelevant to my point. Assuming Ron doesn't win, this is what we want to happen. Obviously and by all means anyway, we should do everything we can do try and have Ron win.

A good way to make sure Ron Paul doesn't win is to fill RPF up with threads saying "Let's hope Obama wins cause our guy can't win anyway". I can see it now. Ron Paul is in the middle of one of the debates and a moderator asks "Dr. Paul. Isn't it true that some of your supporters are hoping for an Obama win anyway?" Think before you post.

[Deborah K]

No it's just realistic. It's a 100% lock he's going to officially run. I have no faith in the general populous to come to their senses. We've got virtually all the mainstream republicans in the mainstream media against us.

Really???


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkG13rBQ2Rw&feature=player_embedded

[zacharyrow]

There have been plenty of times throughout history where the underdog surprises everyone and beats the top dog, why can't this be one of them? Sure the odds aren't great but they are a lot better than in 2008. Heck tonight he has a host giving him a whole hour on his show! Hannity didn't try to call Ron an evil Anti-American this time.

Let's let Ron Paul work his magic in debates and see where the polls go...

[aravoth]

Why?

Summary: Ron and Gary spread more ideas of freedom in the debates. Obama re-elected. More people come to our side. Rand sweeps in already with mainstream republican support and takes this country back in 2016.

By 2016, shit will be so far out of control that there won't be anything to take back.

[sailingaway]

I'd rather have Obama have another term than have any of the front runner candidates at the head of a GOP Congress, because the way the system is now, the taxpayers are the ones who suffer when EITHER party has its head to fund its pet special interests. I need an anti corporatist candidate with a record to overcome my preference for split government. He would also have to be bent on actively working to stop the removal of decision making to international forums even further insulated from impact by the individual than federal decision making is.

Ron's the man.

I'm not convinced Gary isn't corporatist and / or internationalist, by the way. I know he said one thing in a recent interview while running for President that runs against stuff he's been saying for the last 10 years about favoring NAFTA and similar agreements, that he 'couldn't speak to NAFTA but hoped he would veto corporatist laws', and that is good as far as it goes, but lots of politicians use pretty words to be elected, and with Ron in the race there is no need to desperately grasp at late term conversions as far as I am concerned.

[sofia]

What a defeatist attitude. You have him losing before he even officially announces. Useless!!!

Republican primary voters are doofuses who take their marching orders from either the MSM or from the Limbaugh/Levin/Hannity talk radio machine.

Im afraid OP is correct. Best we can hope for is a strong 20% showing....and then have RP throw his weight to a Jesse Ventura independent run.

The only thing I disagree with OP about is the certaintity of a 2016 election. We may be under marshall law / IMF rule by then. When the food riots come....there is no telling which way we will go.

Very soon...we will all know how the Germans felt during the 1920's, when their nation was devastated by hyperinflation and Communist agitatation....Pray for America....cuz the shit is about to hit the fan

[Deborah K]

Republican primary voters are doofuses who take their marching orders from either the MSM or from the Limbaugh/Levin/Hannity talk radio machine.

Im afraid OP is correct. Best we can hope for is a strong 20% showing....and then have RP throw his weight to a Jesse Ventura independent run.

The only thing I disagree with OP about is the certaintity of a 2016 election. We may be under marshall law / IMF rule by then. When the food riots come....there is no telling which way we will go.

Very soon...we will all know how the Germans felt during the 1920's, when their nation was devastated by hyperinflation and Communist agitatation....Pray for America....cuz the shit is about to hit the fan

Be gone with your defeatist attitudes the both of you!! It is not needed nor wanted. You hurt rather than help with your opinions, which is all you have, since I'm sure you don't have a crystal ball!

[Johnnymac]

why?

Facing some cold facts: Ron paul won't win this election. Neither will gary johnson.

The alternative republican candidates are awful and no matter who it is (i think it will be romney) if elected, would just satisfy the pendulum of the american people who sway between mainstream democrats and republicans. Nothing will change, and we will just go back to another mainstream democrat in 4 years.

However, the longer obama stays in there, the more polarized the republican base comes to our more "extreme" vision of liberty. 4 more years will have america absolutely sick of the wars obama has us in, the economy will be even worse, and a younger, more well-spoken rand paul will have an excellent chance of being preisdent in 2016.

Summary: Ron and gary spread more ideas of freedom in the debates. Obama re-elected. More people come to our side. Rand sweeps in already with mainstream republican support and takes this country back in 2016.

infiltratorrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!

[zacharyrow]

Republican primary voters are doofuses who take their marching orders from either the MSM or from the Limbaugh/Levin/Hannity talk radio machine.

Im afraid OP is correct. Best we can hope for is a strong 20% showing....and then have RP throw his weight to a Jesse Ventura independent run.



Wait, let me get this straight. You think Paul has no chance but you think Ventura could have a chance as an independent? Give me a break.

[WyoLiberty]

I support Ron Paul 100%.

But I agree, if he doesn't win the nomination, Obummer needs to stay in office...it doesn't hurt enough right now. If any of the GOP establishment just take back the presidency, the republicans/tea party will think that they "won" and back to complacency they go...like pulling a Scott Brown...:rolleyes:


However, in the interest of a RON PAUL Forum, the thread should be titled more appropriately, Like "IF Ron doesn't win the Nomination..." not we want Obama to win...kind of self defeating...

[AuH20]

Obama could vault Rand Paul into the White House. The media will be further defanged if Obama is in the White House for another 4 years. They could fabricate attacks on Rand and very few would listen.

[zacharyrow]

Obama could vault Rand Paul into the White House. The media will be further defanged if Obama is in the White House for another 4 years. They could fabricate attacks on Rand and very few would listen.

Some of you have too much time to think. There is no way in telling what everything will be like in 2016. Rand might not even want to run then! The Country might be in shambles. Who knows.

We're here to win now, not to panic about the future.

[AuH20]

Some of you have too much time to think. There is no way in telling what everything will be like in 2016. Rand might not even want to run then! The Country might be in shambles. Who knows.

We're here to win now, not to panic about the future.

This forum could be prohibited in 2016. We would be communicating by ham radio and carrier pigeon.

[Havax]

By 2016, shit will be so far out of control that there won't be anything to take back.

This is the only good argument against my point.

[sailingaway]

This forum could be prohibited in 2016. We would be communicating by ham radio and carrier pigeon.

I'll name my pigeon Fred.

[ssantoro]

If RP does not win it could be partially attributed to threads like this. Ron Paul can win. His support is growing exponentially. BTW what makes anybody think America has 4 more years?

[zacharyrow]

I'll name my pigeon Fred.


Fredward sounds more pigeony

[PaulConventionWV]

Why?

Facing some cold facts: Ron Paul won't win this election. Neither will Gary Johnson.

The alternative republican candidates are awful and no matter who it is (I think it will be Romney) if elected, would just satisfy the pendulum of the American people who sway between mainstream democrats and republicans. Nothing will change, and we will just go back to another mainstream democrat in 4 years.

However, the longer Obama stays in there, the more polarized the republican base comes to our more "extreme" vision of liberty. 4 more years will have America absolutely sick of the wars Obama has us in, the economy will be even worse, and a younger, more well-spoken Rand Paul will have an excellent chance of being preisdent in 2016.

Summary: Ron and Gary spread more ideas of freedom in the debates. Obama re-elected. More people come to our side. Rand sweeps in already with mainstream republican support and takes this country back in 2016.

This type of message has no use here. Cold facts don't do us any good. Beside, you don't know that Ron won't get elected. You're abandoning ship prematurely. It's best if we work together as hard as we can now and worry about Obama when the general election cycle comes. Telling people that Ron won't get elected only serves to weaken our movement and discourage people. Why are you content to do this?

[Cowlesy]

While I understand your point, we are going to reach thousands upon thousands of new people who think all the candidates suck and will appreciate Ron's honest candor about the issues.

That, to me, is worth the time, money and effort required to execute a successful campaign.

Hope you will join us.

[wizardwatson]

Why?

Facing some cold facts: Ron Paul won't win this election. Neither will Gary Johnson.

The alternative republican candidates are awful and no matter who it is (I think it will be Romney) if elected, would just satisfy the pendulum of the American people who sway between mainstream democrats and republicans. Nothing will change, and we will just go back to another mainstream democrat in 4 years.

However, the longer Obama stays in there, the more polarized the republican base comes to our more "extreme" vision of liberty. 4 more years will have America absolutely sick of the wars Obama has us in, the economy will be even worse, and a younger, more well-spoken Rand Paul will have an excellent chance of being preisdent in 2016.

Summary: Ron and Gary spread more ideas of freedom in the debates. Obama re-elected. More people come to our side. Rand sweeps in already with mainstream republican support and takes this country back in 2016.

How does this change actual strategy? The strategy now is to support Ron's presidential campaign. If we "face the facts" as you say, what should we be doing exactly? Or are you just trying to rationalize inaction?

[sailingaway]

I think this is another thread trying to lead to a 'so let's all support BOTH of them in the debates...' business.

In NV Ron's polling numbers today were depressing, but it all depends on what field they poll. When I saw the numbers I immediately thought 'yeah, but Huntsman isn't in yet, and if he comes in he pulls from Romney.....'

Since Gary isn't of interest to me, that is the only roll I think he would play against Ron. That and splitting the time Ron would have in debates.

[ssantoro]

This type of message has no use here. Cold facts don't do us any good. Beside, you don't know that Ron won't get elected. You're abandoning ship prematurely. It's best if we work together as hard as we can now and worry about Obama when the general election cycle comes. Telling people that Ron won't get elected only serves to weaken our movement and discourage people. Why are you content to do this?

Agreed!!

[Deborah K]

This forum could be prohibited in 2016. We would be communicating by ham radio and carrier pigeon.

A couple of years ago I heard an interview with Dr. Paul where he stated that having a HAM radio is wise. We went out and got one and got licensed.

[K466]

You are right; we want Obama to win if a typical Republican gets the nomination. But PLEASE DON'T be PESSIMISTIC about RON's chances! This is not 2007!

[ssantoro]

If RP doesn't win, all his supporters from all over the US move to Texas, we secede from the union and make RP our president.

[goRPaul]

You want Obama to be re-elected?

Then sign up for Obama forums, volunteer for Obama, and GTFO with talk like this.

[brandon]

No it's just realistic. It's a 100% lock he's going to officially run. I have no faith in the general populous to come to their senses. We've got virtually all the mainstream republicans in the mainstream media against us.

Realistic or not, what's the point of mentioning it 2 days after Dr. Paul announced his candidacy?

[Chieppa1]

The OP doesn't "hurt" anything. Its an opinion. A rational opinion most of us disagree with. I joined this movement because we were rational.

[zerosdontcount]

Dollar crisis gold soars and so will paul for that reason.

[A Son of Liberty]

The OP doesn't "hurt" anything. Its an opinion. A rational opinion most of us disagree with. I joined this movement because we were rational.

Agreed.

My personal opinion is that the country doesn't want to be saved, and it won't until it's too late. This is the cycle. This is the fourth turning. No one is going to realize that living at the expense of everyone else doesn't work until it's too late... no one is going to want to stop living the socialist dream until they realize that it has ruined them - and even then they probably won't, because someone even worse than Obama will come along and tell them it's the fault of the rich, or some other scapegoat. Not until it all comes crashing down do we stand a chance to be free.

I'm here, and I support Dr. Paul because it is RIGHT. I don't pick fights based on who I think will win - I pick fights based on who is right.

I hope I'm wrong, and I'll work to the end on this side of the fight... just the way I see it.

[qh4dotcom]

Summary: Ron and Gary spread more ideas of freedom in the debates. Obama re-elected. More people come to our side. Rand sweeps in already with mainstream republican support and takes this country back in 2016.

By 2016, it will be too late...the economy will have collapsed by then

[demolama]

Between the Gary Johnson people wanting Ron to give up and now the "we really want Obama to win to force a good GOP candidate in 2016" thread? Sometimes I don't think people understand the purpose behind these forums... to get Ron Paul elected.

I don't care if you think he doesn't have a chance... this forum was a hot bed of ideas in 2008 and all that worked paid off nicely since Ron has more publicity now than he has ever had in his life. He has more people open to his message and the movement has grown because of him and the ideas that came from this board. Money bombs, Blimps, organization, etc. all came from here to help promote Ron Paul and his message

We who worked hard to spread the message since 2007 don't need your negativity on a board dedicated to his election. If Ron had decided not to run then I could understand the position of a clean election in 2016 being a good chance for liberty or supporting Gary Johnson. You realize how many new people might show up to these forums to learn what Ron Paul is all about and find nothing but negativity from his "supporters" its those people who hurt his chances more than Ron Paul himself.

[klamath]

"It's the ecconmy stupid" and yes that is exactly right. If the things are even more in the tank in 9 months, people are more and more going to be looking outside the normal box of leaders. Obama could get a pass on the wars but a bad economy as well, he is toast.

[sofia]

Wait, let me get this straight. You think Paul has no chance but you think Ventura could have a chance as an independent? Give me a break.

If Ron went independent...he could win cuz many indies and even some libs like him....but he wont do it.

Im simply telling you that GOP primary voters are 40% under Limbaugh's spell (neo-cons)...40% under MSM spell (RINOs)....which leaves us with just 20% reasonable people.

That said...I still intend to work my ass off and sell of some of my silver to help Ron take us to the next level....

Id love to be proven wrong....but I know what these Republican zombies are like. ....

[WilliamC]

qh4dotcom wrote:

"By 2016, it will be too late...the economy will have collapsed by then"

I think even Ron Paul knows its too late to turn the USA around and that there will be a collapse of the dollar, the economy, and quite possibly the entire federal government as well. Whether or not the entire country will fall under the control of a dictator or it will fragment into several regions (my personal believe as the most likely outcome--analogous to what happened with the USSR) under a much weaker type of National government remains to be seen, but the future will not be like the past and America as the last superpower will be no more.

Even if Ron Paul wins the Republican nomination and the White House it may very well be to little, to late, and I'm paranoid enough to believe that there are more sinister plans that may be set into motion were he to become President.

The recent comparison of the Paul's to the Kennedy's by several in the mainstream media is not accidental, no one ever made that comparison with respect to the Bushes and they are a much closer analogy.

I don't know the future, no one does and the more they think they have things under control the less they actually do. There is too much chaos in life and every individual, every nation, every culture eventually dies. That's why I respect Ron Paul's constant focus on the ideals of personal freedom and individual liberty and his devotion to educating over governing, because the truth is for me to be free to succeed in life and be happy every one else must equally free as well.

But how to identify the lying authoritarian psychopaths who believe the opposite, who believe it is their 'divine right' or such to rule over me and every one else? That's the main problem in the world, rooting out the liars smart enough to use the rhetoric of liberty to advance their own power.

Heh, if I were king the first edict I'd issue is for every able-bodied citizen mentally competent enough to learn how to safely handle a weapon be issued an appropriate firearm and ammunition and keep it with them at all times. After an initial adjustment period I'm quite confident that most social problems would be solved and the overwhelmingly vast majority of individuals would behave in a polite, civil, non-criminal fashion in all their public dealings.

Children, adults, men, women, handicapped, black, white, yellow, red, religious or atheist, if you aren't in jail or otherwise explicitly prohibited by a court of law then you have the right to keep and bear arms. Any politician who isn't 100% behind this is not working in my best interest, and i doubt he's looking out for yours either.

[cubical]

Hopefully 4 more years of Obama will get people to realize what the problems actually are. More than likely not, but at least there is hope.

[Original_Intent]

I think that Ron may get different treatment this time, and who knows? maybe TPTB want Ron to win so they can let the inevitable collapse happen and they have a fall guy that they can blame everything on, and instead of us picking up the pieces after they implode the economy, they'll be the ones picking up the pieces.

As far as the OP: if you think Ron Paul has zero chance, why are you here? Mole? Here to sow a little doom and gloom? You certainly don't seem like someone who has any hope of a Ron Paul victory.

[cdc482]

You're wrong.
First of all, who are you to say Ron Paul can't win?!
Let's look at the facts: Ron Paul is polling in the top 3 in most polls (better than Obama AND McCain in 2008).
He has the strongest base of supporters.
The 70% of people who normally don't vote are motivated to start voting for an honest politician.
He has raised more money than anyone else.
He has been talking about the Fed and was anti-war before anyone else, and those are two important issues.

Ron Paul can definitely win.

Douche.

[Havax]

Most of you are totally missing my point.

I want Ron to win in 2012.
I will support him.
I will try and convert as many people to our side as possible.
I've converted half the office I currently work in.
I ALSO don't think Ron will win in 2012. I am a betting man and I'd say the realistic odds are out of the rational realm of possibility for many reasons.
I would love to be wrong about that but don't think I am.
I am not letting that fact at ALL deter my support and conversion efforts of those around me.
After all that, assuming Ron does lose, it would be best for Obama to be re-elected to give us the best shot to bring in the changes we need in 2016.
The only good argument against any of that hope is that 2016 may be too late to reverse the damage.

[low preference guy]

thread fail

[klamath]

Most of you are totally missing my point.

I want Ron to win in 2012.
I will support him.
I will try and convert as many people to our side as possible.
I've converted half the office I currently work in.
I ALSO don't think Ron will win in 2012. I am a betting man and I'd say the realistic odds are out of the rational realm of possibility for many reasons.
I would love to be wrong about that but don't think I am.
I am not letting that fact at ALL deter my support and conversion efforts of those around me.
After all that, assuming Ron does lose, it would be best for Obama to be re-elected to give us the best shot to bring in the changes we need in 2016.
The only good argument against any of that hope is that 2016 may be too late to reverse the damage.

If the republicans nominate Romney then is the time to say I hope Obama wins so Rand has a chance in '16, not now!

[Wren]

Great thread OP, wonderful way to lower morale

[Dr.3D]

Most of you are totally missing my point.

I want Ron to win in 2012.
I will support him.
I will try and convert as many people to our side as possible.
I've converted half the office I currently work in.
I ALSO don't think Ron will win in 2012. I am a betting man and I'd say the realistic odds are out of the rational realm of possibility for many reasons.
I would love to be wrong about that but don't think I am.
I am not letting that fact at ALL deter my support and conversion efforts of those around me.
After all that, assuming Ron does lose, it would be best for Obama to be re-elected to give us the best shot to bring in the changes we need in 2016.
The only good argument against any of that hope is that 2016 may be too late to reverse the damage.

Oh thanks for clarifying that, reading the thread title, I kind of got the impression you had a mouse in your pocket.

[Havax]

Great thread OP, wonderful way to lower morale

If a thread on the internet can lower morale, you've got more serious problems.

[wizardwatson]

thread fail


Great thread OP, wonderful way to lower morale

Hehe. Maybe we should petition the admins for an "mission underminers" subforum next to hot topics and such to dispose of threads like these.

[Deborah K]

If a thread on the internet can lower morale, you've got more serious problems.

If they can raise morale, they can lower morale. Never underestimate the power of words. Words can cause wars.

[Dr.3D]

If a thread on the internet can lower morale, you've got more serious problems.

I believe the key word here is "you've", obviously, you don't believe you are one of us or you would have used the word 'we've'.

[Kotin]

What a defeatist attitude. You have him losing before he even officially announces. Useless!!!

agreed..

[wizardwatson]

I believe the key word here is "you've", obviously, you don't believe you are one of us or you would have used the word 'we've'.

Good Catch + rep.

[sirgonzo420]

I believe the key word here is "you've", obviously, you don't believe you are one of us or you would have used the word 'we've'.

Collectivist!


:D

[Dr.3D]

Collectivist!


:D

LOL, hope the mods are taking notes. :D

[Todd]

How many of these threads did I read in 2007? The goal is to win. period. If that doesn't happen then the virtues of more people being educated by the attention garnerd through another presidential run are well worth the time effort and money.

[Stary Hickory]

Speak for yourself...you want Obama to get reelected because you are an undercover lefty. Obama has continued wars started new ones, increased the size of government at a rate that puts even Bush to shame. He has tried to nationalize healthcare to the best of his abilities, and has increased the size and force of the police state even sanctioning the killing of American citizens.

He has bypassed congress and the rule of law with the EPA and FCC, and has been the very defintion of Mr Corporate literally have a GE insider on his staff.

Obama gets no pass, he had a shot he has shown what he is and he does not deserve a second chance. I love this krap, if a GOPer had done this you would demand we get rid of him, and I would go along, however when it's a lefty you demand the lefty stay in.

Obama is an ass, and he is going to go, someone else will be filling the void, if I can get someone who will reduce spending and get rid of Obamacare I will take that. Obama has failed on every front and he will give this government to the IMF with a bow on top.

Only a blind partisan could defend Obama after what he has done to this country.

[A Son of Liberty]

Oh my...

The guy wasn't defending or promoting Obama. He has made the rational, coherent argument that if Ron doesn't win the nomination, the best outcome is another Obama term.

Hell, I think that a good argument can be made for another Obama term, regardless... let's face it - few of us believe that, if the economy survives until '12, it's likely to survive through '16... the suggestion has already been made in this thread that a libertarian president in office during a total collapse would be the perfect scenario for the statists.

It seems a little contrary to the philosophy to ostensibly shout down someone we disagree with, no?

[Stary Hickory]

Oh my...

The guy wasn't defending or promoting Obama. He has made the rational, coherent argument that if Ron doesn't win the nomination, the best outcome is another Obama term.

Hell, I think that a good argument can be made for another Obama term, regardless... let's face it - few of us believe that, if the economy survives until '12, it's pretty unlikely to survive through '16... the suggestion has already been made in this thread that a libertarian president in office during a total collapse would be the perfect scenario for the statists.

It seems a little contrary to the philosophy to ostensibly shout down someone we disagree with, no?

I am not shouting down anyone, but there is too much at stake to simply let Obama back in. The IMF will make a move as well, and I would like someone to defend against it. Also I don't want Obamacare implemented, I want it gone before this is the case. Giving in and letting this unfold will do nothing, FDR oversaw 10+ years of the Great Depression it did not hurt him one bit, he confiscated our gold and finally he died, else he may have been reelected again.

I don't want to try and time the ebb and flow of the inflationary trainwreck to get people elected, its hard enough already. I am at the point where it is get people elected at the national level and get them in at the state level, and talk about secession and nullification hardcore. If a collapse on this magnitude does happen you want a president who believes in less centralized power so that states can reclaim power and by extension the people themselves.

[pacelli]

Fuck obama winning again. I will vote for Ron Paul, regardless of whether he is on the ballot. I have NEVER voted for obama, and I will never vote for him. The only senator that I would consider voting for would be RAND PAUL for president.

[RM918]

Well stand aside then and let us do our thing.

Exactly. If you're so sure we'll lose, then why bother talking about it?

[PaulConventionWV]

Most of you are totally missing my point.

I want Ron to win in 2012.
I will support him.
I will try and convert as many people to our side as possible.
I've converted half the office I currently work in.
I ALSO don't think Ron will win in 2012. I am a betting man and I'd say the realistic odds are out of the rational realm of possibility for many reasons.
I would love to be wrong about that but don't think I am.
I am not letting that fact at ALL deter my support and conversion efforts of those around me.
After all that, assuming Ron does lose, it would be best for Obama to be re-elected to give us the best shot to bring in the changes we need in 2016.
The only good argument against any of that hope is that 2016 may be too late to reverse the damage.

Look, I respect your opinion, but really, what is the point of this post? Whether or not you want Ron to win, it's just discouraging people, which is never good. Also, why worry about Obama now? Worry about him in the general election cycle. Your point makes sense. I think you are wrong, but there is still no reason to post this now. Post it AFTER the Repub nomination and then we'll talk. Now is not the time and it serves no purpose at all.

[outspoken]

I understand your rational but I honest believe we are the the fringe of grave darkness that is irrepareable if we as a nation do not rise up to alter our path of self-destruction. If we get 4 more years of the present policies, I am most certain there will not be an election in 2016... only chaos and suffering. I am emotionally and financially prepare to weather the Greatest Depression but I'd rather not see America have to endure such pain if it is unavoidable... and it is as long as the masses wake up which I believe in my heart they are doing just not quite fast enough. Whatever is God's will so be it but it will be a cold day in hell before I support any leader whom I don't support on the left or right.

[Theocrat]

Why?

Facing some cold facts: Ron Paul won't win this election. Neither will Gary Johnson.

The alternative republican candidates are awful and no matter who it is (I think it will be Romney) if elected, would just satisfy the pendulum of the American people who sway between mainstream democrats and republicans. Nothing will change, and we will just go back to another mainstream democrat in 4 years.

However, the longer Obama stays in there, the more polarized the republican base comes to our more "extreme" vision of liberty. 4 more years will have America absolutely sick of the wars Obama has us in, the economy will be even worse, and a younger, more well-spoken Rand Paul will have an excellent chance of being preisdent in 2016.

Summary: Ron and Gary spread more ideas of freedom in the debates. Obama re-elected. More people come to our side. Rand sweeps in already with mainstream republican support and takes this country back in 2016.

Havax, none of us know the future. Our country's economic situation might become so dire that people will be desperate to elect a man such as Congressman Paul (Johnson should drop out), and then we will have the support we need to get him into the White House. Yes, the GOP will be a huge obstacle for Dr. Paul, but we still need to have a thunderous voice in the party (and I say that as a huge Constitution Party supporter).

We just need to focus on getting Congressman Paul elected in the best way we can. This time around, he has much better name recognition and air time on the media networks than ever before. I say that gives him a better chance to spread his ideas and influence more citizens to support his campaign. Let's not be defeatist about this, Havax. As a wise person once said, "The duty is ours; the results are God's!"

[libertyjam]

I've seen this argument used for the last 4 election cycles, the only thing this argument does is promotes spending your entire lifetime under tyranny.

[Anti Federalist]

While I understand your point, we are going to reach thousands upon thousands of new people who think all the candidates suck and will appreciate Ron's honest candor about the issues.

That, to me, is worth the time, money and effort required to execute a successful campaign.

Hope you will join us.

That ^^^

is precisely how I see it as well.

[anaconda]

Facing some cold facts: Ron Paul won't win this election. Neither will Gary Johnson.

Polls at this time are very meaningless. And you're right, the other candidates suck. I can almost promise you it will not be Romney. See John Stewart's recent video. At this point in 1991 the big poll numbers for Democrat candidates were Mario Cuomo and Jesse Jackson. It's all about name recognition at this point (see Donald Trump). Bill Clinton was polling at 1% in Florida and 0% in California, for example. I think Mitch Daniels will score more votes than Romney, for example. Ron Paul could fare quite well and even win, if he can get a fat chunk of money early on. The Paul grassroots can get him significant money sooner than the corporate donations begin flowing to the other candidates, and this is something that is not talked about much.

[anaconda]

Oh my...

The guy wasn't defending or promoting Obama. He has made the rational, coherent argument that if Ron doesn't win the nomination, the best outcome is another Obama term.

Hell, I think that a good argument can be made for another Obama term, regardless... let's face it - few of us believe that, if the economy survives until '12, it's likely to survive through '16... the suggestion has already been made in this thread that a libertarian president in office during a total collapse would be the perfect scenario for the statists.

It seems a little contrary to the philosophy to ostensibly shout down someone we disagree with, no?

Agreed. If McSame had been elected would we have the Tea Party? Would we have Rand? Would Ron's star be rising like it is? Another Obama term will surely give us even more gains. But we can win this thing now so we might as well save ourselves the torture and destruction of another Obama term and let Ron get in there and make some significant changes. My only concern is that if the collapse comes in 2014 Ron might likely catch all of the criticism and blame. The corporate media will portray it as the end and failure of the libertarian experiment. Then the New World Order coasts in for the final win in 2016. Game over.

[AtomiC]

Havax, why do you think Ron Paul has no chance of winning the election?

And speak for yourself, there is no way in hell any of us want Obama re-elected.

Ron Paul has much more name recognition this go around. People are tired of the endless wars, senseless spending, encroachment of our civil liberties. Many people are waking up everyday to the failed policies of the Federal Reserve and Obama's bailouts, unconstitutional wars, and violation of our civil liberties. It is time for a real change in Washington and Ron Paul is our man! If you don't like it then you can leave this forum with your negative and defeatist attitude!!!

[tpreitzel]

Good luck! ;)

We'll see how well the electorate views Obama's games while the US burns ...