Do birthers believe that Santorum wasn't born in the US?

[Jeremy]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53743.html

"He has a certificate of birth, which is what, if you ask for the record of birth in Hawaii, that is what they give you. I've looked at my birth certificate. I have a certificate of birth. I have the same thing."

[Bruno]

Everyone should prove their eligibility to run for POTUS from now on so there is no question. I would expect the same from anyone applying for any position in a company, let alone what amounts to the highest position in the world.

[Jeremy]

Everyone should prove their eligibility to run for POTUS from now on so there is no question. I would expect the same from anyone applying for any position in a company, let alone what amounts to the highest position in the world.

But apparently Obama has a certificate of birth and the birthers say, "no, you need a 'birth certificate'."

Well what's the difference?

[anaconda]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53743.html

"He has a certificate of birth, which is what, if you ask for the record of birth in Hawaii, that is what they give you. I've looked at my birth certificate. I have a certificate of birth. I have the same thing."

I don't believe a thing that Santorum says. It is obvious that all of the GOP foot soldiers have recieved the same anti birth certificate talking points in the last few weeks. Obama has not shown a birth "certificate." The digital image on FactCheck.org is an uncertified "certification of live birth" which could be filed for through the mail in 1961.

[Jeremy]

But Santorum says he has the same thing as Obama. So are you saying he's not eligible to be president?

[anaconda]

But apparently Obama has a certificate of birth and the birthers say, "no, you need a 'birth certificate'."

Well what's the difference?

Obama has not shown a birth "certificate." The digital image on FactCheck.org is an uncertified "certification of live birth" which could be filed for through the mail in 1961.

[Bruno]

But apparently Obama has a certificate of birth and the birthers say, "no, you need a 'birth certificate'."

Well what's the difference?

Well, in Obama's case, the original long form birth certificate that only one person claims to have every seen, the same one that the Hawaii Governor and Obama friend looked for and says does not exist, the same one Obama has spent approximately $2 million to avoid showing, would be sufficient. :)

[Jeremy]

Well, in Obama's case, the original long form birth certificate that only one person claims to have every seen, the same one that the Hawaii Governor and Obama friend looked for and says does not exist, the same one Obama has spent approximately $2 million to avoid showing, would be sufficient. :)
So maybe Santorum will have to spend $2mil too?

[Bruno]

So maybe Santorum will have to spend $2mil too?

I don't follow your logic. Obama's supposedly exists. He has spent $2million to not allow permission for its release when he could make a phone call and do so. If Sanotorum's original exists, would it not be strange to spend $2 million to prevent its release also? Why would he have to spend that amount of money to refuse to release something when the choice was his?

Me, I'd rather keep the $2million

[Jeremy]

I don't follow your logic. Obama's supposedly exists. He has spent $2million to not allow permission for its release when he could make a phone call and do so. If Sanotorum's original exists, would it not be strange to spend $2 million to prevent its release also? Why would he have to spend that amount of money to refuse to release something when the choice was his?

Me, I'd rather keep the $2million
I don't know. Santorum is saying he has the same thing that Obama revealed. He didn't say he has anything else. So basically that would mean Obama was born in the US, but is hiding something else, but Santorum was not born in the US.

[Agorism]

Constitution doesn't require you to prove anything. It's unclear who the burden of proof lies with although since most of the states don't care it doesn't matter anyways.

[Bruno]

I don't know. Santorum is saying he has the same thing that Obama revealed. He didn't say he has anything else. So basically that would mean Obama was born in the US, but is hiding something else, but Santorum was not born in the US.

No, that would not mean Obama was born in the U.S.

[Jeremy]

No, that would not mean Obama was born in the U.S.

So you think he has a birth certificate from the US but might still not be born in the US? And what about Santorum? If you claim Obama has an "actual birth certificate," that's one more "actual birth certificate" than Santorum has!

[Bruno]

So you think he has a birth certificate from the US but might still not be born in the US? And what about Santorum? If you claim Obama has an "actual birth certificate," that's one more "actual birth certificate" than Santorum has!

I don't know if he was born in the U.S. Certainly enough reason to doubt it. That Certificate of Birth is ridiculous as evidence to support the claim, and even the governor of Hawaii couldn't find the original that supposedly one person swears that they have seen. All quite odd.

Obama has not proven to millions of Americans that he was born the U.S. and that is why they have questions.

I have a question for you. Why has he spent $2 million to not show something that exists?

[Jeremy]

Well the point of this thread is to point out that Santorum says he has the same thing as Obama. So wouldn't everything you said also apply to him?

[Doug8796]

Religion is a block of a birth certificate. Obamas says Muslim as religion (upon birth). Muslims believe you cannot convert and would go haywire if they knew it said muslim on his cert.

[Bruno]

Well the point of this thread is to point out that Santorum says he has the same thing as Obama. So wouldn't everything you said also apply to him?

Was there any reason originally to dispute that Santorum was born in the U.S.? If so, then yes.

Has he spent millions to avoid proving he was? If so, then yes.

Does he perhaps have something to hide on his original birth certificate, if it really does exist? If so, then yes.

Has only one person in the world claimed to have seen Santorum's original birth certificate, then the governor of the state (his own supporter) tries to find it and says it does not exist? If so, then yes.

Has a long-time family friend stated on record he can vouch for Santorum since he was "there" when he was born, then later recanted and said he first remembers him playing teeball as a boy? If so, then yes.

Have newpaper records been provided as evidence, when there is reason to believe his mother may have given birth to him, flown back to the country, requested a birth certificate so her son can be a U.S. citizen, and then such "evidence" appears in the newspaper nine days after his birth? If so, then yes.

Does he really not have an original on file at the county vital records office where he was born, or is he just making a false political claim so that he can show himself as some sort of anti-birther?

I think we are comparing apples and oranges here and we all know it. ;)

[Jeremy]

But there is an inconsistency if you say there is something suspicious about Obama and nothing suspicious about Santorum, who has the same evidence Obama has. Speculation about Obama doesn't change the fact that he's in the same boat as Santorum. At least according to Santorum.

[jazzloversinc]

It would apply to Santorum if his father was a foreigner, his mother was an expatriot and he was adoped by some other foreign guy, and he used a name that is not his legally...i guess then people woulde also be suspicious of him.

[Jeremy]

It would apply to Santorum if his father was a foreigner, his mother was an expatriot and he was adoped by some other foreign guy, and he used a name that is not his legally...i guess then people woulde also be suspicious of him.

But like I said in my last post, suspicion doesn't mean anything. The evidence is the same. What if a bunch of people think Ron Paul is a martian? It does't make it any more true.

[AZKing]

But apparently Obama has a certificate of birth and the birthers say, "no, you need a 'birth certificate'."

Well what's the difference?

I'm curious about that as well.

My "birth certificate", the one that I've used to get a driver's license, go to school, get a military ID, etc. says "Certificate of Live Birth". I'm guessing everyone here has a Certificate of Live Birth.

[MelissaWV]

Yes, Jeremy, it would also be suspicious of Santorum not to show anything, imo. Of course, people are more suspicious of your citizenship/birth certificate/whatever if there is evidence that one or both of your parents were citizens of other nations, that you yourself have held citizenship in another country, that you've spent millions just to fight a battle that cound end by showing your own birth certificate, etc..

If Santorum were more relevant, this might even crawl to the forefront. There were some grumbles about McCain's eligibility too, if you'll recall.

[Bruno]

Yes, Jeremy, it would also be suspicious of Santorum not to show anything, imo. Of course, people are more suspicious of your citizenship/birth certificate/whatever if there is evidence that one or both of your parents were citizens of other nations, that you yourself have held citizenship in another country, that you've spent millions just to fight a battle that cound end by showing your own birth certificate, etc..

If Santorum were more relevant, this might even crawl to the forefront. There were some grumbles about McCain's eligibility too, if you'll recall.

Unfortunately, most people do not recall/want to ignore that fact, the Congress even passed a resolution saying he was eligible, one cosponsored by Obama (Hmmm...why was he so interested?)

It's easier to point fingers and call people racists. ("Pssst, hey, non-birthers - We all know he is half-African already, that was no secret, just wondering if he was actually born there and not here, making him ineligible for president according to the U.S. Constitution"). ;)

[jmdrake]

But like I said in my last post, suspicion doesn't mean anything. The evidence is the same. What if a bunch of people think Ron Paul is a martian? It does't mean it any more true.

Yeah it does. Evidence has to be looked together as a whole. For example, we all know the "glove didn't fit" but O.J. is guilty as sin. He was found not guilty but later shown to be civilly liable. (There's a different burden of proof in civil cases and you can't plead the fifth). If someone randomly accused me of killing O.J.'s ex-wife, it wouldn't matter whether the glove fit or not. What many people fail to understand is that in law burden's of proof shift. If a plaintiff can establish what is known as a "prima facie case" then the burden shifts to the defendant to rebut it. Has a prima facie case been established that Obama isn't a natural born citizen? Well technically no since this hasn't even gone to court. But could it be established based on the factors Bruno mentioned? Ummmm....maybe.

What I don't get is why Ron Paul folks on either side of this debate devote so much energy to it. If he's not a natural born citizen it does give a way to undue a few bad laws, but the overall bad system remains. And since Ron Paul hasn't staked this out as an issue, it doesn't really help his campaign. On the other hand, if Obama turns out to be a citizen all that has been accomplished is that his policies continue unabated. Ron Paul isn't hurt by this because he hasn't staked this out as an issue. So why are some of us trying to stake this out as an issue? I've seen some anti-birthers go so far as to say "Nullify this part of the constitution". :eek: This ain't our fight. And there's no need to tick off the nearly 50% of republicans that are hard core birthers and the overwhelming majority of republicans (including Rand Paul) who have at least expressed that they aren't sure if Obama is a citizen. This isn't like the wars or the wrongly named "ground zero mosque" where we need to stand up against most republicans for some great principle. At least I don't see it that way.

Note: I just recognized where your AV pic same from after all this time. :o

[libertyjam]

I don't follow your logic. Obama's supposedly exists. He has spent $2million to not allow permission for its release when he could make a phone call and do so. If Sanotorum's original exists, would it not be strange to spend $2 million to prevent its release also? Why would he have to spend that amount of money to refuse to release something when the choice was his?

Me, I'd rather keep the $2million

To be fair the $2 mil I believe is the total he has spent for keeping all records unavailable, i.e. the school records that were subpoenaed by court order that he had his attorneys quash on appeal.

[teacherone]

Everyone should prove their eligibility to run for POTUS from now on so there is no question. I would expect the same from anyone applying for any position in a company, let alone what amounts to the highest position in the world.

???

i have never shown my birth certificate to any one of my employers.

[teacherone]

I don't follow your logic. Obama's supposedly exists. He has spent $2million to not allow permission for its release when he could make a phone call and do so. If Sanotorum's original exists, would it not be strange to spend $2 million to prevent its release also? Why would he have to spend that amount of money to refuse to release something when the choice was his?

Me, I'd rather keep the $2million

prove it.

[teacherone]

isn't it ironic that the people demanding proof are those spouting off the most unproven assertions?

[jmdrake]

???

i have never shown my birth certificate to any one of my employers.

At my last job they forced me to come in and either show them my social security card (which I have not physically had for about 30 years[1]), or my passport. And I had been working for this company for about 4 years. This was supposedly because of some stupid federal mandate. And yea, that's not the same as a birth certificate but the federal requirement was not that I be a natural born citizen either.

This is what floors me about these debates. Obama's goons are strip searching is at the airport and people want to feel sympathy for him because folks are asking him to show a freaking piece of paper? Really? Okay how about this. Obama doesn't have to show a birth certificate, but he has to go through a full strip and body cavity search and it must be posted uncensored on YouTube. He and every other stinking politician that is destroying our liberties and then have the gall to make jokes about it.

[jmdrake]

isn't it ironic that the people demanding proof are those spouting off the most unproven assertions?

Isn't it ironic that you even care?

[ExPatPaki]

Religion is a block of a birth certificate. Obamas says Muslim as religion (upon birth). Muslims believe you cannot convert and would go haywire if they knew it said muslim on his cert.

Are you sure it says Muslim as a religion on Obama's birth certificate? From what I've read his father was an atheist.

[jmdrake]

Are you sure it says Muslim as a religion on Obama's birth certificate? From what I've read his father was an atheist.

Religion isn't a field on the birth certificate.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

And I'm pretty sure when I had my kids religion wasn't asked. I'm confused as to why anybody thinks it would be? :confused:

The "Obama was really born in Hawaii, but he's hiding something else" conspiracy theories have been debunked to the same extent that the general birther conspiracy has been debunked. Unless people believe this new long form release is fake or altered, there's nothing special about it.

[erowe1]

Everyone should prove their eligibility to run for POTUS from now on so there is no question.

Prove it to whose satisfaction?

[libertarian4321]

Santorum is white and conservative, so the birthers don't really care about his birth certificate.