How I feel about this whole Gary Johnson vs Ron Paul thing

[Wren]

Just my thoughts

http://i.imgur.com/dsZ1E.jpg

[goRPaul]

Hahahahah

[sparebulb]

Gary who?

[anaconda]

Gary is far far better than all but one of the likely candidates. That's how I feel about it.

[MelissaWV]

That about sums it up... other than I can't really get an answer as to why Gary Johnson is so very awesome and what awesome thing's he plans on doing. Most of the stuff I've seen is CLOSE to Dr. Paul's... but... with a hint of Government growth thrown in.

I don't like that hint.

[KramerDSP]

Brilliant OP. +Rep

[Wren]

That about sums it up... other than I can't really get an answer as to why Gary Johnson is so very awesome and what awesome thing's he plans on doing. Most of the stuff I've seen is CLOSE to Dr. Paul's... but... with a hint of Government growth thrown in.

I don't like that hint.

He's an egg without the yolk, a hollowed version of RP who just spouts cliches. But that doesn't matter, the dude has done weed. He's young and hip ffs. /obviousarcasm

[MikeStanart]

Haha. Let the craziness of the next year and a half begin!!

I'm gonna love every minute of it.

[Doug8796]

Johnson is good but he has less chance than ron paul and will take ron's votes away. he should quit

[JohnGalt1225]

Ron Paul all the way.

[Matt Collins]

There is no need to bash GJ. If he were running for Senate we'd probably all be supporting him. He is for the most part one of us. Don't forget Ron endorsed him, and he endorsed Ron.

A civil war within the liberty movement is unnecessary and unproductive.

[belian78]

And how is it not going to drive a wedge with him going for the republican nomination, Matt? Seriously, I can't see how this guy doesn't know he will fuck with Rons base of supporters.

[AlexMerced]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5xev7O0TvY

[AminCad]

I'm not sure how it will play out, but the more people promoting libertarian ideas, usually the better it is.

I am wary of the fact that tnr.com promoted the idea of a Johnson run though:

h ttp://www.tnr.com/article/magazine/78543/Gary-johnson-2012-republican-candidate-new-mexico

The New Republic is a notorious neocon mouthpiece and were behind the newsletter 'scandal' during Paul's last run. They published numerous articles smearing Ron Paul during his campaign. They are after maintaining the status quo in foreign policy, which Ron Paul threatens.

[South Park Fan]

I wouldn't worry about Johnson until/unless it becomes clear that Johnson's share of the vote is larger than the difference separating Paul from 1st place in the early states. So far, Johnson's 1% is insubstantial, and only has potential to shrink if someone with similar views is close to winning.

[Zatch]

Some quotes from reddit.com/r/libertarian to make you rage:

theotherwarreng

As someone who voted for Paul last election, I would vote for Johnson over him in a second. He's better (in my opinion, obviously) on immigration and abortion, two of Paul's weaker points.

iamacontrarian

I feel the same way. I understand the nuances in Paul's immigration and abortion positions. Unfortunately, the general voting public can't make these distinctions. It requires too much thought to figure out the difference between the federal and state governments apparently.

I voted, campaigned door-to-door, and even stumped for Paul last time around... but given the choice, I'd take Johnson this time.

TaraDavis

Add me to the list of 2008 "money bomb" participants who is all in for Johnson this time around.

MarcoVincenzo

Johnson also supports ensuring that all Americans have the same legal rights, even the gay ones. Paul, on the other hand, is still pushing for separate and unequal. It's one of the main reasons Paul could never attract folks in the the center or anyone on the left whereas Johnson can. Johnson is an all around stronger candidate if he can survive the primaries.

lsmnr

I feel like Paul has the clear edge among libertarians while Johnson has a much better shot at winning over pretty much everybody else.

jimothy

So now the question is how Ron Paul will respond. Will he give his support to Johnson and not enter the race, to avoid splitting the libertarian leaning GOP primary vote?

hayduke

Yeah, I don't see it working out this well. This piece from Slate sums it up well. Paul will suck the money in, leaving Johnson (the more marketable candidate) in the cold. I want to see Johnson go far, I think he has a much better shot at the presidency than Paul does. I would really like to see Paul throw his support behind Johnson for a libertarian juggernaut, but I don't think Paul will do this.

MarcoVincenzo

Maybe, maybe not. I sent Johnson $100 on Thursday when he announced, and I won't be donating to Paul as long as Johnson is a candidate. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

bombastica

I have been hoping that both Paul and Johnson will run but that Paul will bow out before the first primary and mobilize his base to back Johnson. Johnson is much more electable and doesn't carry the same baggage that Ron Paul does (age, accusations of racist publications,denying evolution, pro life, etc.) I love RP as much as the next guy but his age isn't going to work in his favour and I'd hate to see his health suffer if he runs an aggressive campaign.


http://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/gv7ex/gary_johnson_throws_his_hat_into_the_gop/

[Wren]

^ Seriously, I could not be more pissed right now :mad:

http://www.enusbaum.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/headdesk.jpg

@ some of those comments

[belian78]

This guy obviously knows what he's doing, and what reaction its going to have. It's going to be a battle getting Ron the nomination as it is, now we have a whole segment of potential activists that will jump ship to work for this freakin guy no one knew about until just recently. FFS

[Kotin]

Perfect op.. I'm outta rep otherwise you'd get some..

[Wren]

There is no need to bash GJ. If he were running for Senate we'd probably all be supporting him.

Not even "probably", most of us WOULD be supporting him if he made that decision. Right now, he's just another opposing candidate, except one that targets our small voter block. Their endorsements are absolutely irrelevant at this point as neither of them has made any indication that they plan on helping one another during this election.

[Matt Collins]

neither of them has made any indication that they plan on helping one another during this election.Neither of them have announced their candidacy yet either. Nor have we had any debates yet. Neither candidates have hashed out platforms or defined themselves.


Give it some time and I'm willing to bet that everyone rational will start to see what these two have up their sleeves.

[belian78]

Ah so if we don't blindly agree with Matt's 'insider info' we aren't rational? I'm sorry, I don't see how this in anyway can be good for Paul's primary bid. Even if Johnson was to not run and throw his support behind Paul, the wedge is already being driven between the supporters.

[Matt Collins]

I'm sorry, I don't see how this in anyway can be good for Paul's primary bid. That's because you are close minded.



Even if Johnson was to not run and throw his support behind Paul, the wedge is already being driven between the supporters.Only if you let it be.

[nate895]

That's because you are close minded.

That isn't insulting or anything.

All Gary Johnson's candidacy means to me (and he is officially a candidate now) is that he'll probably drop out sometime between July and November and endorse Paul. When he does that, I'll have to defend the fact that a pot smoker just endorsed my candidate to my friends at Liberty University. The only thing worse than that would be to have Fred Karger drop out and endorse Ron.

[t0rnado]

That isn't insulting or anything.

All Gary Johnson's candidacy means to me (and he is officially a candidate now) is that he'll probably drop out sometime between July and November and endorse Paul. When he does that, I'll have to defend the fact that a pot smoker just endorsed my candidate to my friends at Liberty University. The only thing worse than that would be to have Fred Karger drop out and endorse Ron.

And thousands of other supporters won't have to defend the fact that a pot smoker endorsed their candidate at REAL colleges.

[BamaFanNKy]

That isn't insulting or anything.

All Gary Johnson's candidacy means to me (and he is officially a candidate now) is that he'll probably drop out sometime between July and November and endorse Paul. When he does that, I'll have to defend the fact that a pot smoker just endorsed my candidate to my friends at Liberty University. The only thing worse than that would be to have Fred Karger drop out and endorse Ron.

Liberty? really.... You probably shouldn't tell people you support Ron since Jerry Falwell hated Goldwater. I went to a Christian College and met Falwell, I'll withhold my views. I'll let Goldwater say it at 4:00:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3WZlWhQbns

I'd also replace Pat Robertson with Mike Huckabee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9FyQiGc1y0

[nate895]

And thousands of other supporters won't have to defend the fact that a pot smoker endorsed their candidate at REAL colleges.

What's that supposed to mean?

[low preference guy]

What's that supposed to mean?

rotfl

[nate895]

Liberty? really.... You probably shouldn't tell people you support Ron since Jerry Falwell hated Goldwater. I went to a Christian College and met Falwell, I'll withhold my views. I'll let Goldwater say it at 4:00:


I'm no friend to the Falwells. Falwell, Sr. also implied Calvinists (that's me) are heretics. However, the Falwells are not as dominant as you might think on campus, especially now that Liberty is the 4th largest university in the country according to the 2010 census.

Edit: And haven't any of you supposed experts on LU noticed the fact that my avatar is their logo?

[Matt Collins]

All Gary Johnson's candidacy means to me (and he is officially a candidate now) is that he'll probably drop out sometime between July and November and endorse Paul. That's fine and I completely agree. Remember he has already endorsed Ron, and Ron has basically endorsed him too.



When he does that, I'll have to defend the fact that a pot smoker just endorsed my candidate to my friends at Liberty University.They must be awfully close-minded if they decide to vote for someone based on who has endorsed them. :(

Maybe you need to work on your friends a bit more so that they aren't so shallow? :confused:

[BamaFanNKy]

I'm no friend to the Falwells. Falwell, Sr. also implied Calvinists (that's me) are heretics. However, the Falwells are not as dominant as you might think on campus, especially now that Liberty is the 4th largest university in the country according to the 2010 census.

Edit: And haven't any of you supposed experts on LU noticed the fact that my avatar is their logo?

I did but, anything that produces crap music like DC Talk I usually ignore. ;)

[nate895]

That's fine and I completely agree. Remember he has already endorsed Ron, and Ron has basically endorsed him too.


They must be awfully close-minded if they decide to vote for someone based on who has endorsed them. :(

Maybe you need to work on your friends a bit more so that they aren't so shallow? :confused:

These are theoretical friends, btw. I only know a couple of people, none of whom I'd consider "friends" quite yet, maybe in a little bit, and I avoid talking politics with people I've just met. In fact, I avoid talking politics with most people most of the time. However, I can tell you at least most of them are typical Southern Evangelical voters. That I already know for sure.

[Matt Collins]

These are theoretical friends, btw. I only know a couple of people, none of whom I'd consider "friends" quite yet, maybe in a little bit, and I avoid talking politics with people I've just met. In fact, I avoid talking politics with most people most of the time. However, I can tell you at least most of them are typical Southern Evangelical voters. That I already know for sure.
Awesome, share this with them:
Ron Paul's Statement of Faith:
http://www.covenantnews.com/ronpaul070721.htm

After they read it then ask them if they have seen anything similar from Newt or any of the others. If they clamor for Huckabee then just search our opposing candidates forum here to see all of the ammo you have against him.

[Matt Collins]

I did but, anything that produces crap music like DC Talk I usually ignore. ;)DC Talk had a few good songs. Toby rocked it when he was out on his own. I've run sound for him several times before. He puts on one of the best live shows I've ever seen.

[Wren]

Neither of them have announced their candidacy yet either. Nor have we had any debates yet. Neither candidates have hashed out platforms or defined themselves.


Give it some time and I'm willing to bet that everyone rational will start to see what these two have up their sleeves.


When asked if he was aware that Gary Johnson was running and if it would impact his decision, RP said that it wouldn't affect his decision to announce. So obviously they are acting independently which completely justifies the uncomfortable feeling that I and many others get from Johnson. Until his campaign puts something out there for the grassroots to identify him as 'trustworthy', the tension will unfortunately continue.

[Matt Collins]

When asked if he was aware that Gary Johnson was running and if it would impact his decision, RP said that it wouldn't affect his decision to announce. So obviously they are acting independently which completely justifies the uncomfortable feeling that I and many others get from Johnson.
Trust me when I tell you that both of these men have thought through the likely and possible scenarios.

[nate895]

I did but, anything that produces crap music like DC Talk I usually ignore. ;)

I totally get where you're coming from. I was there a few weeks ago and I got a free concert ticket for a couple of bands of fmr. Liberty students. I chose to throw it away and watch this guy from Pennsylvania make a fool of himself in front of the ladies. I know I had a better time than listening to that music.

[nate895]

Awesome, share this with them:
Ron Paul's Statement of Faith:
http://www.covenantnews.com/ronpaul070721.htm

After they read it then ask them if they have seen anything similar from Newt or any of the others. If they clamor for Huckabee then just search our opposing candidates forum here to see all of the ammo you have against him.

I intend on going full out on a campaign to get Christians behind Ron Paul. That will have to be part of it.

[BamaFanNKy]

DC Talk had a few good songs. Toby rocked it when he was out on his own. I've run sound for him several times before. He puts on one of the best live shows I've ever seen.

I used to work for their record company in the old college days. You know how it is when you hear the same some a bajillion times. I will give them some artistic credit for being kind of the first for their genre.

[Matt Collins]

I used to work for their record company in the old college days. You know how it is when you hear the same some a bajillion times. I will give them some artistic credit for being kind of the first for their genre.
I did find most of their stuff boring, but there were a couple of tracks that I liked. It's also why I could never work much in a studio - hearing the same track thousands of times would drive me insane.

I was always more of a Skillet fan, at least until they tried to ditch their electro-industrial roots and ended up sounding like Nicklebag. Disciple really rocked though IMO.

[JCLibertarian]

And thousands of other supporters won't have to defend the fact that a pot smoker endorsed their candidate at REAL colleges.

This. Most rational people support human freedom and personal choice and recognize the constitutional, social and economic crisis created by the Federal Drug War. My selling points to people who have turned to Ron Paul from either an apathetic political position or a democratic political position have been on these three issues in this order: How Obama's foreign policy equals Bush's,how Obama has done nothing on the Drug War, and how he supported the Bank Bailouts and authored a "health reform" bill that drives up prices and is a big giveaway to the health insurance corporations. Ending the War on Drugs is a huge selling point to the younger generation because it reflects a larger shift in social values towards respecting personal preference and individual social freedom.

[Matt Collins]

Most rational people support human freedom and personal choice and recognize the constitutional, social and economic crisis created by the Federal Drug War.
The Myth of the Rational Voter:
http://www.cato-unbound.org/2006/11/06/bryan-caplan/the-myth-of-the-rational-voter/

4 Biases of Every Voter:
http://reason.com/archives/2007/09/26/the-4-boneheaded-biases-of-stu

[JCLibertarian]

The Myth of the Rational Voter:
http://www.cato-unbound.org/2006/11/06/bryan-caplan/the-myth-of-the-rational-voter/

4 Biases of Every Voter:
http://reason.com/archives/2007/09/26/the-4-boneheaded-biases-of-stu

I never said most voters are rational, I said most rational people recognize the ill effects of the Drug War, big difference. Though, an increasing amount of voter support legalizing Marijuana, which is at least a step in the right direction. Last time it was tracked up Gallup support was at 46%.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/144086/new-high-americans-support-legalizing-marijuana.aspx

[GunnyFreedom]

LOL Let Gary bring up all the 'kooky' stuff and Ron Paul be the voice of moderation. ;)

[SimpleName]

Love the interpretation of the Johnson supporter...clearly a pothead with the munchies. lol. I do suspect the more liberal libertarians will be more likely to support Johnson. I would actually consider myself part of the bunch, but Johnson really isn't inspiring in the least. Ron is charismatic, funny, loving, and an adorable old man. I have the distinct feeling the Johnson campaign will barely get off the ground. He will be an utter failure at debates with his bland, monotone approach to everything. And thats it. RON PAUL 2012!

[libertybrewcity]

There is no need to bash GJ. If he were running for Senate we'd probably all be supporting him. He is for the most part one of us. Don't forget Ron endorsed him, and he endorsed Ron.

A civil war within the liberty movement is unnecessary and unproductive.

Matt, you are right but it is unavoidable. A schism will appear, supporters on both sides will be angry, but that's just life. GJ knew that RP was going to run, and any one with a single brain could figure out that this was going to happen.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I've seen GJ interviewed twice now. I'm not impressed. He has a few libertarian possitions, but overall, he's a neocon. Worse, he's inept and clueless. In one interview he said he wanted to cut the DoD by 43% because that is the % we are borrowing. By that logic, we would have to cut SS, Medicare, Medicaid, payment on the interest of the debt and other mandatory spending by 43%. :rolleyes:

actually - it's 40 cents we borrow for every dollar we have and his math is lacking.

This guy would be worse for the country than Obama. Really glad he's polling so low.

[Romulus]

LOL Let Gary bring up all the 'kooky' stuff and Ron Paul be the voice of moderation. ;)

Thats the ticket!

[Wren]

Trust me when I tell you that both of these men have thought through the likely and possible scenarios.

I have no doubt that Ron has, but I need something concrete to convince me otherwise or I'll remain extremely skeptical. Until Johnson's campaign can drop off any sort hint that he intends to drop out and endorse Ron, I'll be actively against him.

[Gray Seal]

I look forward to having two voices of reason in the debates.

[belian78]

I'm close minded? LOL. Fuck you and your 'insider info' Matt. I may not get my ugly mugg plastered all over these boards in pictures with people to make myself look cool but my opinion is just as valid as yours. And IMHO, you're starting to come off like Ghemmy 2.0.

[Matt Collins]

I'm close minded? LOL. Fuck you
Thank you for proving my point.

[Matt Collins]

Here is something people need to see:

Two voices for freedom means we are rebranding the GOP back to it's original.

[belian78]

Fine, you and bama go ahead and openly support Johnson on a site dedicated to Ron Paul and I'll come back and say I told you so when the divide widens and Rons campaign hurt because of it.

As its been shown time and time again, the MSM watches these boards and it will pick up and run with this to further hurt Rons chances at a primary win.

You call me close minded and ignorant all you want, but you still come off as a self righteous ass when someone doesn't share your opinion.

[BamaFanNKy]

Fine, you and bama go ahead and openly support Johnson on a site dedicated to Ron Paul and I'll come back and say I told you so when the divide widens and Rons campaign hurt because of it.

As its been shown time and time again, the MSM watches these boards and it will pick up and run with this to further hurt Rons chances at a primary win.

You call me close minded and ignorant all you want, but you still come off as a self righteous ass when someone doesn't share your opinion.

You mean the media will read this board and see your overreaction and write a story, "Paul supporters attack Johnson campaign in fear of Ron Paul losing. Siding for the man over the message."

It is funny you get huffy and lump me as a "Gary Johnson supporter" because I think Ron Paul supporters are smart enough to know that we can support Ron but, also think Gary has a great message as well. This is why I say there is a Cult faction. It's the message, not the man.

I also love the "He polls at 1%." Two things, who cares about polls. Secondly, if you do..... Clinton was at 1% this point in 91.

[Matt Collins]

Fine, you and bama go ahead and openly support Johnson on a site dedicated to Ron Paul and I'll come back and say I told you so when the divide widens and Rons campaign hurt because of it. I am not openly supporting Johnson, I am supporting Ron.

But I am not saying anything negative about GJ because I realize it is detrimental to the movement as a whole, AND, I like Gary. I also have the wisdom to realize that like BamaFan has pointed out, GJ is helping Ron rebrand the GOP and pull it our direction. That will only help us in the long run.



you still come off as a self righteous ass when someone doesn't share your opinion.Well the best way to avoid that is to share my opinion then. :cool: ;):p

[nate895]

Thank you for proving my point.

Merely having an open mind is nothing. The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.-GK Chesterton

[BamaFanNKy]

Merely having an open mind is nothing. The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.-GK Chesterton

Nice grab. Anyone who quotes the man who influenced the greatest modern Christian writer deserves rep.

[nate895]

Nice grab. Anyone who quotes the man who influenced the greatest modern Christian writer deserves rep.

Easiest rep I ever got. Danke

[Feeding the Abscess]

If the goal is to get Ron elected, Gary is bad news. Gary is going to peel some libertarian support away.

If the goal is to educate, Gary is great news. We'll have another liberty voice on stage during debates.

The first can be overcome; however, if Ron were the lone liberty voice on stage, education may be more difficult to pursue.

[reillym]

I've seen GJ interviewed twice now. I'm not impressed. He has a few libertarian possitions, but overall, he's a neocon. Worse, he's inept and clueless. In one interview he said he wanted to cut the DoD by 43% because that is the % we are borrowing. By that logic, we would have to cut SS, Medicare, Medicaid, payment on the interest of the debt and other mandatory spending by 43%. :rolleyes:

actually - it's 40 cents we borrow for every dollar we have and his math is lacking.

This guy would be worse for the country than Obama. Really glad he's polling so low.

Last time I checked the neocons wanted to continue the drug war, the wars overseas, and support the bailouts.

He is far far far from a neocon.

[MelissaWV]

Closed.

If you were "close-minded," I guess your brain would be nearby. Being closed-minded, however, would indicate you're blocking out all new evidence, opinions, or other data in an effort to stick to a point regardless of how rational the opposition is being.