IRS blocking the exits didn't raise much attention, maybe THIS will.

[Anti Federalist]

When government starts thinking about or actually starts blocking the exits, shit is preparing to get bad.

Now government is proposing to make it even more difficult to get a passport, by making you fill out information, under penalty of federal felony, listing extended family and, for US citizens, a complete list of every job, residence and school ever attended, from birth.

This is not good...



State Dept. wants to make it harder to get a passport

http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/state-dept-wants-to-make-it-harder-to-get-a-passport/

http://papersplease.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ds5513-proposed.pdf

If you don’t want it to get even harder for a U.S. citizen to get a passport — now required for travel even to Canada or Mexico — you only have until Monday to let the State Department know.

The U.S. Department of State is proposing a new Biographical Questionnaire for some passport applicants: The proposed new Form DS-5513 asks for all addresses since birth; lifetime employment history including employers’ and supervisors names, addresses, and telephone numbers; personal details of all siblings; mother’s address one year prior to your birth; any “religious ceremony” around the time of birth; and a variety of other information. According to the proposed form, “failure to provide the information requested may result in … the denial of your U.S. passport application.”

The State Department estimated that the average respondent would be able to compile all this information in just 45 minutes, which is obviously absurd given the amount of research that is likely to be required to even attempt to complete the form.

It seems likely that only some, not all, applicants will be required to fill out the new questionnaire, but no criteria have been made public for determining who will be subjected to these additional new written interrogatories. So if the passport examiner wants to deny your application, all they will have to do is give you the impossible new form to complete.

It’s not clear from the supporting statement, statement of legal authorities, or regulatory assessment submitted by the State Department to the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) why declining to discuss one’s siblings or to provide the phone number of your first supervisor when you were a teenager working at McDonalds would be a legitimate basis for denial of a passport to a U.S. citizen.

There’s more information in the Federal Register notice (also available here as a PDF) and from the Identity Project.

You can submit comments to the State Dept. online at Regulations.gov until midnight Eastern time on Monday, April 25, 2011. Go here, then click the “Submit a Comment” button at the upper right of the page. If that link doesn’t work for you, it’s probably a problem with the javascript used on the Regulations.gov website. There are alternate instructions for submitting comments by email here.

(Note that the proposed form itself was not published in the Federal Register. The Identity Project was eventually provided with a copy after requesting it from the Department of State, and posted it here.)

Here’s a draft of the comments (PDF) being submitted by the Consumer Travel Alliance and other consumer, privacy, and civil liberties groups and individuals, if you would like to use it for ideas for comments of your own. (It’s also available in OpenOffice format for easier editing.)

Extra points to the person who gives the best answer in the comments to the question on the proposed form, “Please describe the circumstances of your birth including the names (as well as address and phone number, if available) of persons present or in attendance at your birth.”

[teacherone]

that's just messed up.

[MN Patriot]

This seems like an elaborate joke, especially with the question of the circumstances of your birth.

[dannno]

Why only for "some" passport applicants, and who are those applicants?

[daviddee]

...

[qh4dotcom]

If you wanted to leave, the government couldn't possibly patrol 3,000+ miles of the northern border in order to keep you out.
I am a dual citizen so if I wanted to leave I could go renew the passport of my home country.

[Peace&Freedom]

Why only for "some" passport applicants, and who are those applicants?

Because they are now bold enough to billboard that the measure will be selectively enforced, first upon "suspected terrorists," then those seeking sanctuary from IRS persecution abroad, etc. Eventually, "SOME" will turn into "ALL," but the "see, nothing to get worried about" crowd will be pacified by the 'some' qualifier for now, because they will presume the 'some' means just a few other people.

[Dr.3D]

snip~
Please describe the circumstances of your birth including the names (as well as address and phone number, if available) of persons present or in attendance at your birth.

Does this mean Obama won't be able to get a passport in the future?

[daviddee]

...

[moostraks]

I'm sorry after drinking fluoridated water I can't remember half the answers to that crap. After my mother's stroke I doubt she'd be much help on answering some of the others. Guess I'll just have to go by way of Mexico if I want to leave...

This looks like a joke. If it is not then :eek:!!!!

[moostraks]

Does this mean Obama won't be able to get a passport in the future?

:D Twas thinking the same thing when I read it...

[Pericles]

So I show up at a US Embassy somewhere in the world and I want to renew my passport. I can't answer all of their questions. What are they going to do?

[moostraks]

Interesting they are targeting non-institutional births with the onerous birth questions. Now why would they want to do that (rhetorical question imo) and how would they ascertain whether you are lying or not about who attended or what rites were performed?

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

Heh, a buddy of mine on Facebook gave the best reply so far to this I've seen:


Adam Oester (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1727358081) Clearly it's to protect us from all the terrorists and illegals trying to....get....out of the country? I got nothing. 20 minutes ago · Unlike · 1 person (http://www.facebook.com/browse/?type=likes&id=209428472414354)

[HOLLYWOOD]

Per the IRS/State Department/Washington DC whatever... that specific information they demand for a passport is basically filing out Security Clearance paperwork at the TOP SECRET level and beyond.

This is clearly to track everyone in the US with a passport. I find it very intrusive and a violation of privacy. I would like to know who drafted this mandate and who approved the mandate. Any word from Capital Hill? Oh I forgot, they're on their 4th vacation of the calendar year 2011.

Another chapter in the 1984 script

[Anti Federalist]

Looks like a legit document to me:

http://papersplease.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ds5513-proposed.pdf

"Proposed" but still, it's no joke.

Nor is it any surprise, this has been in the works for years now.

[bkreigh]

Looks like a legit document to me:

http://papersplease.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ds5513-proposed.pdf

"Proposed" but still, it's no joke.

Nor is it any surprise, this has been in the works for years now.

Jesus H Christ i could have fun with that!

Question #12 - Answer - Circumcision, see photo attachment #1

[Anti Federalist]

///

[QueenB4Liberty]

Wow this is disturbing. I guess I'll be getting my passport soon.

[Kylie]

Cross posted. Thanks!

Do you have anything "mainstream" about this?

[Anti Federalist]

Cross posted. Thanks!

Do you have anything "mainstream" about this?

Straight from the fedgov's own website:

http://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2011/02/24/2011-4154/60-day-notice-of-proposed-information-collection-ds-5513-biographical-questionnaire-for-us-passport

[cindy25]

I don't think this will be universal; and wouldn't they have much of this info anyway.

but it is ominous. It was only in the 80s that the ssn was required for a passport

[Anti Federalist]

I don't think this will be universal; and wouldn't they have much of this info anyway.

but it is ominous. It was only in the 80s that the ssn was required for a passport

Why wouldn't it be universal?

Says right on it, with the exception of the page for those born outside the US, that it is for all applicants.

And I'm pretty sure State doesn't know who my children or grandparents are or every place I've ever worked at in my entire life. (Wow, imagine the trap that would set for tax "avoiders")

Also, when you read the fine print, all this information will go to IRS as well, to tie in with the other story about not letting you out if you owe back taxes.

I'm sure the same will apply for child support and alimony payments before much longer.

A good rancher fences in his livestock.

[sirgonzo420]

Why wouldn't it be universal?

Says right on it, with the exception of the page for those born outside the US, that it is for all applicants.

And I'm pretty sure State doesn't know who my children or grandparents are or every place I've ever worked at in my entire life. (Wow, imagine the trap that would set for tax "avoiders")

Also, when you read the fine print, all this information will go to IRS as well, to tie in with the other story about not letting you out if you owe back taxes.

I'm sure the same will apply for child support and alimony payments before much longer.

A good rancher fences in his livestock.

Lucky for me I wasn't born in the UNITED STATES. http://boundarystones.org/

I was born on land commonly called "Kentucky".

US citizens are members of a body politic created and controlled by Congress..... Foreign nationals are not.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Look's like Glenn Beck's staff picked up on this PASSPORT thread covering it today.

http://www.glennbeck.com/2011/04/26/why-doesnt-gov-want-you-to-have-a-passport/

Why doesn’t Gov want you to have a passport?

Tuesday, Apr 26, 2011 at 1:22 PM EDT
Consumer Traveler (http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/state-dept-wants-to-make-it-harder-to-get-a-passport/) reports that The US Department of State is proposing a series of new forms needed to in order to receive a passport, including a Biographical questionnaire. The questionnaire asks some difficult – even bizarre – questions of the applicant, and Glenn thinks that the difficulty in filling it out accurately should raise some suspicions.

What are some of the relevant questions being asked of respondents? Were you circumcised? What was your mother’s residence at the time of your birth? Was there any kind of religious ceremony surrounding your birth? What are the names, addressees, and phone numbers, of any witnesses to your birth.


The Blaze (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/were-you-circumcised-new-passport-questionnaire-baffles-many-with-absurd-info-demands/) reports that the form is intended for those who apply for a passport but are unable to produce a birth certificate.

When explaining this story to his producers this morning, Glenn could not even fathom why such forms would be needed in order to acquire a passport?
“If I work at Burger King when I was 16 years old, I would have to remember the Burger King, I would have to remember who my supervisor was, and I would have to give his phone number,” Glenn said.


“You are also supposed to give the lifetime employment history, including employer and supervisors’ names, addresses and telephone numbers, personal details of all siblings, your mother’s address one year prior to your birth, any religious ceremony around the time of the birth and variety of other information. Failure to provide the information requested may result in the denial of your U.S. passport application,” Glenn said.
“The State Department is saying that the average person can fill this out in 45 minutes. There is no way the average person can fill this out.”
“ We don’t know who will be required to fill out this questionnaire because no criteria has been made for the determining of who will be subjected to these additional new written questions.”


“I don’t have any idea why they would do this.”

[DamianTV]

Why is my name always capitalized on government forms? Always?

[moostraks]

The Blaze (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/were-you-circumcised-new-passport-questionnaire-baffles-many-with-absurd-info-demands/) reports that the form is intended for those who apply for a passport but are unable to produce a birth certificate.


There would be no need for a specific subset 2 question must answer yes or fill out questions 5-12 if the form was designated for those who cannot produce a birth certificate as those 2 questions are targeting non-institutional births or delayed filing. It would seem that those questions would be at the top of the survey thus requiring 2 yes answers or you fill out the form. So for them to blow this off as directed at those lacking birth certificates seems disingenuous, imo.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Why is my name always capitalized on government forms? Always?

Don't give them any ideas or they may do the dame to passports as they did for street signs. Throw $100's of million in taxpayer money down the drain, so it's easier to read than all CAPS.

[kahless]

Unfortunately what they cannot get through this form, they will just use Facebook and Linkedin for people that have been stupid enough provide everything to those sites.

[Anti Federalist]

Unfortunately what they cannot get through this form, they will just use Facebook and Linkedin for people that have been stupid enough provide everything to those sites.

NFS That^^^

[VBRonPaulFan]

whatever happened to people telling government officials asking for this stuff to go fuck themselves? because if i went to renew my passport and they started asking all of this personal info, i'd tell them to toss off.

[Anti Federalist]

whatever happened to people telling government officials asking for this stuff to go fuck themselves? because if i went to renew my passport and they started asking all of this personal info, i'd tell them to toss off.

Perfectly within your right to do so, Mundane.

Just be advised: No Passport For You!

[VBRonPaulFan]

Maybe i'll just make my own. After all, the government is allowed to do it with money, why can't I do it with my passport?

Oh yeah, or maybe get a big class action lawsuit against the government going.

[Sarge]

Excuse me sir, will you drop your shorts so we can verify you are telling the truth. Why don't they also ask you to state how many inches while they are at it? A new tax on lies about inches. The bigger the lie on inches, the higher the tax. Why ask the question if they don't intend to use the information for a search?