New Information Verifying Mercury (thimersol)/Autism Link

[dannno]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?289039-New-Study-Verifies-Mercury-%28thimersol%29-In-Flu-Shots-Is-Toxic
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?288990-Vaccine-Researcher-Indicted-for-Fraud



New Study Verifies Mercury In Flu Shots Is Toxic

SILVER SPRING, Md., March 22, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ — CoMeD — Yet another peer-reviewed, scientific study proving the connection between the mercury in medicine and human illnesses has just been released. The latest study is the sixth one published in recent months. This report specifically examines the harm inflicted on developing fetuses and children by Thimerosal, a mercury-based compound routinely used as a preservative in flu shots.

Members of non-profit groups like the Coalition for Mercury-free Drugs (CoMeD) are actively sharing the latest scientific data about the dangers of medical mercury with the public, largely because they recognize that the mercury in Thimerosal is a factor in numerous childhood diseases.

Thimerosal is the Eli Lilly trade name for sodium ethylmercurithiosalicylate when used as a preservative in vaccines and other drug products. It is also known as "Thiomersal" in Europe and "Merthiolate" when used as an antiseptic. Consisting of approximately 49.6% mercury by weight, Thimerosal has been phased out of many vaccines in the United States because of concerns about its "potential risk." However, it is still in most flu shots even though much safer, cost-effective alternatives are already being used.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-study-verifies-mercury-in-flu-shots-is-toxic-118432874.html



(Pro-thimersol) Vaccine Researcher Indicted for Fraud

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?288990-Vaccine-Researcher-Indicted-for-Fraud



Big Pharma researcher admits to faking dozens of research studies for Pfizer, Merck

http://www.naturalnews.com/028194_Scott_Reuben_research_fraud.html

[dannno]

bump

[dannno]

bump

[Anti Federalist]

inb4 vaccine defenders question the validity of a study connected to the Coalition for Mercury-free Drugs.

As if government/big pharma studies have no bias whatsoever.

[dannno]

inb4 vaccine defenders question the validity of a study connected to the Coalition for Mercury-free Drugs.

As if government/big pharma studies have no bias whatsoever.

I've been fishing for these guys all last night and this morning.

[dannno]

bump

[Anti Federalist]

bump

Not even a nibble?

[ItsTime]

Currently, the United Nations Environmental Programme is working to create international mercury regulations by 2013, and the European Commission is expected to announce their findings about health risks associated with mercury-based fillings this month. The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is also re-evaluating the safety of mercury-based fillings.

Not exactly good news either.

[dannno]

Not exactly good news either.

It will be the day when we get a positive reaction out of the establishment.. but at least information on this is getting out.

There have been plenty of studies suggesting the link and there was a study released a while back that proved the link, but then that study was taken by the establishment and in rapid fire succession they released information that supposedly debunked the study. I'm not sure why we are supposed to believe the same establishment that fakes all sorts of studies in order to line the pockets of big pharma, but a lot of people did.

[maqsur]

Keep up the research and avoid potential harm; does not mean need to avoid all vaccines.

[dannno]

Keep up the research and avoid potential harm; does not mean need to avoid all vaccines.

I don't know that there are very many people out there who are opposed to the entire notion of vaccines.. most of us are just afraid of the amount of control the medical industrial complex has over the making an distribution of vaccines currently, and that they are not entirely voluntary.

[jmdrake]

I've been fishing for these guys all last night and this morning.

Don't hold your breath. When I posted the thread about how the EPA now admits the fluoride levels they claimed were safe were actually toxic, non of the "The government would never harm us" crowd responded to that either. Or notice how the 9/11 debunkers bowed out of the thread the experimental thermite charges. But a few months later they tried to pretend nothing had happened. That's just the way it goes round here.

[dannno]

Don't hold your breath. When I posted the thread about how the EPA now admits the fluoride levels they claimed were safe were actually toxic, non of the "The government would never harm us" crowd responded to that either. Or notice how the 9/11 debunkers bowed out of the thread the experimental thermite charges. But a few months later they tried to pretend nothing had happened. That's just the way it goes round here.

It's a sickening pattern..

I mean, I can see from their side when the establishment releases something that makes us look bad, our defense is often that the entire situation was setup by the establishment who controls the industry, but at least that makes sense.

[NiceGoing]

☻Video – Neurosurgeon Dr. Russell Blaylock on Vaccines & Brain Damage

VACCINES & BRAIN DEVELOPMENT
PART 2* OF 10:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Cm94Udq6M&feature=related

*PARTS 1-10 here:
http://arukah.com/_news/2010/06/21/neurosurgeon-dr-russell-blaylock-vaccines-brain-damage/

======================

Credentials/Website: www.russellblaylockmd.com
===========

[Acala]

Don't hold your breath. When I posted the thread about how the EPA now admits the fluoride levels they claimed were safe were actually toxic, non of the "The government would never harm us" crowd responded to that either. Or notice how the 9/11 debunkers bowed out of the thread the experimental thermite charges. But a few months later they tried to pretend nothing had happened. That's just the way it goes round here.

Not taking any position on the issues raised by the thread, but as an fyi, just because someone gives up arguing with you doesn't mean you "win". As often as not it means that they concede only the futility of spending more time on the endeavor. There are several issues I won't go near. Doesn't mean I agree with either side or am overwhelmed by the awesomeness of their evidence. I merely sometimes am able to recognize a waste of time when I see one.

[BamaAla]

I can't get the original article to work; I really wanted to share this one on some MPH friends' facebook walls.

[angelatc]

I'm confused.

The source article, of which we can only access the abstract, seems to have nothing to do with flu shots. They didn't even run a study - they studied other studies via PubMed, which may or may not be the studies that were previously debunked.

(The UN is involved, so they'll keep us safe eventually anyway.)

[dannno]

I can't get the original article to work; I really wanted to share this one on some MPH friends' facebook walls.

Still? Seems to work ok for me :confused:

[dannno]

I'm confused.

The source article, of which we can only access the abstract, seems to have nothing to do with flu shots. They didn't even run a study - they studied other studies via PubMed, which may or may not be the studies that were previously debunked.

(The UN is involved, so they'll keep us safe eventually anyway.)

http://www.springerlink.com/content/22115401745m3l44/

It seems to me that you are right about them reviewing data from the establishment's databases. I don't see the harm in doing so, there are a lot of people who might think the data was flawed if it didn't come from an established source.

And no, it doesn't have anything to do with flu shots, it has to do with mercury compounds (specifically thimersol) and their affect on the very young.

[dannno]

Not taking any position on the issues raised by the thread, but as an fyi, just because someone gives up arguing with you doesn't mean you "win". As often as not it means that they concede only the futility of spending more time on the endeavor. There are several issues I won't go near. Doesn't mean I agree with either side or am overwhelmed by the awesomeness of their evidence. I merely sometimes am able to recognize a waste of time when I see one.

It's possible, tho it seems zippy might be ignoring this thread in favor of the other vaccine thread..

[Zippyjuan]

Thank you Danno for inviting me to participate in this thread. To see what it actually says, I tried to go to the original source (which I prefer to do if possible). Let us see what it actually says.

It is in a PDF form but let me go to the actual report (not just the "summary"). I examined the full page example of the first page they post. I will be hand- copying this (copy past won't work) so if you don't think I have it right, you can check on it for me. Link to that: http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=22115401745m3l44&size=largest
Empasis and any bracked comments will have been added by me.


Introduction

The prevalance of emerging neury- developmental disabilities has been directly linked to environmental neurotixic substances which are estimated to effect 3% of children [1]; environmental mercury exposure, mainly methylmercury from seafood (note- this is not the same type of mercury in vaccines) [1] and elemental mercury from coal combustin (used in electrical utilities) (note- this is their comment, not mine) as well as municipal and medical waste incinerators [2] is at the center of concerns. However a considerable part of these disablities (25%) may arise as a result of interaction with individual genetic susceptiblities [1]. Indeed, it is known that Hg neurotoxicity involces long latencies and atypical responces between low and high doses [3]; additionally it has now been shown that exposures to different forms of mercury (such as methylmercury and HG vapor) (note- their note, but I would add again, these are not the sorts found in vaccinations) can act synergistically in increasing neurotoxic risks.



Unfortunately, I can't go much further than that. But a couple important points. First, it lists the primary factors they believe promote autism. Those include mercury exposure (from environmental exposure, not vaccines- like seafood, pollution from energy production) and genetic pre-disposition reacting to those factors. Next is the complete absence of anything from vaccines there. Ethyl mercury does not react in the body like methyl mercury does (see the other thread in Heath on this issue). Ethyl mercury is an organic compound and is passed out of the body pretty quickly- half is gone in less than a week so it does not build up enough to be a toxicity problem (less than seven days for half to leave your body vs 44 days for methyl mercury).

The piece is not a proof positive link of any autism thimerisol connection. As has also been pointed out on numerous occasions, thimerisol was removed from vaccines intended for children (flu vaccines may or may not contain it but are not intended for children) in the US by 2001 and earlier in other countries in Europe. In all those cases, the rate of autism did not decline which one would expect if thimerisol was any major factor in autism.

[mello]

I remember watching an episode of "Bullshit" where the subject was on Autism & Vaccinations. If I remember correctly, thimersol hasn't been in vaccines for years. Also, there is many times more mercury in a tuna sandwich than in a single vaccination.

[dannno]

I'm not sure if a 7 vs. 44 day half life is going to make much of a difference as most reports of kids who react to to the vaccines by having a seizure before developing autism occur within a day or two of receiving the shot.

[dannno]

Also, there is many times more mercury in a tuna sandwich than in a single vaccination.

Would you take all of the mercury from a tuna sandwich and inject it straight into your veins?

[mello]

Would you take all of the mercury from a tuna sandwich and inject it straight into your veins?

Are you trying to tell me that the human body won't absorb the mercury when ingested? The actor Jeremy Piven literally gave himself mercury poisoning by being a huge fan of sushi. He probably had concentrations of mercury that were thousands of times higher than a single vaccination dose.

[Zippyjuan]

Penn & Teller Part 1 of 2


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo97VouL0ls

[jmdrake]

Not taking any position on the issues raised by the thread, but as an fyi, just because someone gives up arguing with you doesn't mean you "win". As often as not it means that they concede only the futility of spending more time on the endeavor. There are several issues I won't go near. Doesn't mean I agree with either side or am overwhelmed by the awesomeness of their evidence. I merely sometimes am able to recognize a waste of time when I see one.

True. Except that when someone doesn't even attempt an argument in the face of overwhelming evidence, then come back a month later and try to pretend the evidence never existed they are being intellectually dishonest.

[dannno]

Are you trying to tell me that the human body won't absorb the mercury when ingested?

Yes, but probably not all of it and over a longer period of time. People inject illicit drugs due to the incredibly high concentrations their body receives all at once vs. snorting or smoking, and to a great extent eating them. Completely different effects on the body.

[maqsur]

There are studies abounding which show correlation between anything and everything; correlation does not equal causation. Same idea behind lipid hypothesis and heart disease. Never proven that fat causes heart disease, only a correlation. Apply to vaccines, or just about anything in past twenty years and you can correlate lots of stuff with rise in autism (and still lingering argument whether it is an actual increase, or only a perceived increase secondary to better and earlier diagnosis).

Two points I would say:

1. No medication, treatment, or vaccine should be mandatory by law. People own their bodies, and parents 'own' their childrens' bodies. Unless not giving treatment is known to lead to harm, then it's up the parents.

2. Like anything in life, there will always be risk/benefit. People have to decide how that ratio applies to them, and act accordingly. Nothing in life is benign. Even the oxygen we breath is toxic in large doses.

Aside from that, the more continued research, the better. Isn't that the point of science, anyway?

[S.Shorland]

How does Mercury preserve a vaccine? They should give brainscans to children as they are given injections.Do it in a poor country and pay the parents twice their yearly income (if the children are due to have the injection anyway).If these seizures are caused by the vaccine,I would expect there to be an immediate reaction in the brain in some cases.Would it be measurable by a scan?

Probably easier to use an electro-encephalogram?

[mello]

The other problem about this vaccine/autism link debate originated because of this guy:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1248041/Lancet-accepts-Dr-Andrew-Wakefields-MMR-study-false.html

This was the doctor that Jenny McCarthy based all of her little cottage industry on if I'm correct.

[jmdrake]

Thank you Danno for inviting me to participate in this thread. To see what it actually says, I tried to go to the original source (which I prefer to do if possible). Let us see what it actually says.

It is in a PDF form but let me go to the actual report (not just the "summary"). I examined the full page example of the first page they post. I will be hand- copying this (copy past won't work) so if you don't think I have it right, you can check on it for me. Link to that: http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=22115401745m3l44&size=largest
Empasis and any bracked comments will have been added by me.


Unfortunately, I can't go much further than that. But a couple important points. First, it lists the primary factors they believe promote autism. Those include mercury exposure (from environmental exposure, not vaccines- like seafood, pollution from energy production) and genetic pre-disposition reacting to those factors. Next is the complete absence of anything from vaccines there. Ethyl mercury does not react in the body like methyl mercury does (see the other thread in Heath on this issue). Ethyl mercury is an organic compound and is passed out of the body pretty quickly- half is gone in less than a week so it does not build up enough to be a toxicity problem (less than seven days for half to leave your body vs 44 days for methyl mercury).

The piece is not a proof positive link of any autism thimerisol connection. As has also been pointed out on numerous occasions, thimerisol was removed from vaccines intended for children (flu vaccines may or may not contain it but are not intended for children) in the US by 2001 and earlier in other countries in Europe. In all those cases, the rate of autism did not decline which one would expect if thimerisol was any major factor in autism.

Not according to the FDA.

http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/safetyavailability/vaccinesafety/ucm096228.htm

Tradename
(Manufacturer) Thimerosal Status Concentration**(Mercury) Approval Date for Thimerosal Free or Thimerosal / Preservative Free (Trace Thimerosal)*** Formulation
Tripedia
(Sanofi Pasteur, Inc) Trace(≤0.3 µg Hg/0.5mL dose) 03/07/01
Sanofi Pasteur's Tripedia may be used to reconstitute ActHib to form TriHIBit. TriHIBit is indicated for use in children 15 to 18 months of age.

It's hard for me to reformat the table here so go to the link. Basically Tripedia, a vaccine meant for infants, contains what the government calls a "trace" amount of thimerisol. Now the government says that amount is safe. But it said the amount of flouride we had in our water was safe to....until it came out months ago and said the flouride levels were not safe.

See: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?275670-Federal-DHHS-calls-for-reduced-flouride-levels-in-drinking-water!&highlight=flouride+epa

Oh, and I'm officially inviting you to participate in that thread as well. ;)

[dannno]

The other problem about this vaccine/autism link debate originated because of this guy:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1248041/Lancet-accepts-Dr-Andrew-Wakefields-MMR-study-false.html

This was the doctor that Jenny McCarthy based all of her little cottage industry on if I'm correct.

That's why I posted final link in the OP about the pro-establishment medical doctor who committed fraudulent studies.

I have no reason to trust the establishment medical system. I have a very strong feeling that the medical industrial complex went code red on that study you are posting about, you could tell by the rapid fire succession of stories coming out about it every few months.

[dannno]

I edited the wikipedia article on thimersol a couple years ago with a study about Gulf War vets who had received the shot and the correlation to Gulf War syndrome. I know it stayed up there for at least a few months, but now the wiki page is completely different.

[Zippyjuan]

Not according to the FDA.

http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvac.../ucm096228.htm

Tradename
(Manufacturer) Thimerosal Status Concentration**(Mercury) Approval Date for Thimerosal Free or Thimerosal / Preservative Free (Trace Thimerosal)*** Formulation
Tripedia
(Sanofi Pasteur, Inc) Trace(≤0.3 µg Hg/0.5mL dose) 03/07/01
Sanofi Pasteur's Tripedia may be used to reconstitute ActHib to form TriHIBit. TriHIBit is indicated for use in children 15 to 18 months of age.

It's hard for me to reformat the table here so go to the link. Basically Tripedia, a vaccine meant for infants, contains what the government calls a "trace" amount of thimerisol. Now the government says that amount is safe. But it said the amount of flouride we had in our water was safe to....until it came out months ago and said the flouride levels were not safe.

See: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...t=flouride+epa

Oh, and I'm officially inviting you to participate in that thread as well.

Thank you for the input. How much is a "trace"? A trace can be as little as one molecule in the entire shot. The FDA defines it as

*** The term "trace" has been taken in this context to mean 1 microgram of mercury per dose or less.


One microgram is .000001 grams (ten to the minus sixth power). Or if you prefer, .00000035 ounces. For comparison, the flu vaccines which still contain thimerisol (not all of them do) would have 25 micrograms per dose and that was one one hundredth of one percent of the dose. (figures from using your same link). A trace would be 25 times less or even smaller. (they list it as 0.00012 % or less of the entire vaccine dose).

[dannno]

Thank you for the input. How much is a "trace"? A trace can be as little as one molecule in the entire shot. The FDA defines it as


One microgram is .000001 grams (ten to the minus sixth power). Or if you prefer, .00000035 ounces. For comparison, the flu vaccines which still contain thimerisol (not all of them do) would have 25 micrograms per dose and that was one one hundredth of one percent of the dose. (figures from using your same link).

You should probably ask the government, rather than assume that they are in fact thimersol free and make 100 posts about them being completely thimersol free.

[jmdrake]

Thank you for the input. How much is a "trace"? A trace can be as little as one molecule in the entire shot. The FDA defines it as


One microgram is .000001 grams (ten to the minus sixth power). Or if you prefer, .00000035 ounces. For comparison, the flu vaccines which still contain thimerisol (not all of them do) would have 25 micrograms per dose and that was one one hundredth of one percent of the dose. (figures from using your same link). A trace would be 25 times less or even smaller. (they list it as 0.00012 % or less of the entire vaccine dose).

And is that "trace" amount safe? For years now the EPA has been trying to convince us that the flouride levels in our drinking water were "safe". Then they changed their minds. (I'm still looking forward to your comments in that thread).

[Zippyjuan]

So you are going to argue over .00012% or less being zero or not? I guess technically it is not. But it is not really anything of significance either.
Say we had a 1000 gallon pool of this DTaP vaccine. How much mercury would you have?

One gallon = 128 ounces.
1000 gallons = 128,000 ounces.
Multiply that by .00012% or .0000012= 0.15 ounces in your entire thousand gallon pool. Perhaps somebody can double check my math for me.

If that level is dangerous, there must be millions of people dropping dead from eating sea food.

[dannno]

So you are going to argue over .00012% or less being zero or not? I guess technically it is not. But it is not really anything of significance either.
Say we had a 1000 gallon pool of this DTaP vaccine. How much mercury would you have?

One gallon = 128 ounces.
1000 gallons = 128,000 ounces.
Multiply that by .00012% or .0000012= 0.15 ounces in your entire thousand gallon pool. Perhaps somebody can double check my math for me.

If people who say thimersol and other mercury compounds in vaccines are causing autism, and so they take most of the thimersol out but still leave 'trace amounts', but the autism rates continue to stay high, it's not really fair to say that thimersol can't possibly be the cause.

Why not take it out completely and see what happens?

[jmdrake]

So you are going to argue over .00012% or less being zero or not? I guess technically it is not. But it is not really anything of significance either.
Say we had a 1000 gallon pool of this DTaP vaccine. How much mercury would you have?

One gallon = 128 ounces.
1000 gallons = 128,000 ounces.
Multiply that by .00012% or .0000012= 0.15 ounces in your entire thousand gallon pool. Perhaps somebody can double check my math for me.

If that level is dangerous, there must be millions of people dropping dead from eating sea food.

Why have ANY mercury put in vaccines? Seriously why? Also I'm not the one saying that a "trace" amount is different from zero. The FDA is saying that! But hey. It's safe. Mercury is good for you. And now radiation is good for you. Ann Coulter said so, so it must be true.

Edit: I'm still waiting for your comment on the EPA's reversal on flouride. Oh, and infants don't eat fish.

[libertyjam]

Damn Zippy you like to talk like you know a lot about science and whatnot but this response shows you really don't know shit. First, in scientific articles the introduction is where the state of the existing science is or what other researchers have shown or a background of the field. It usually says NOTHING about what is found in the study the paper is currently documenting. In fact plenty of papers end up stating exact opposite conclusions to what is stated in the introductions! So if you want to comment on this paper you are going to have to satisfy yourself with the abstract, or what the article says, or go to a University library and look it up yourself, or pay the service for the whole paper and read the conclusions yourself. Then maybe you could comment on it.

[libertyjam]

The other problem about this vaccine/autism link debate originated because of this guy:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1248041/Lancet-accepts-Dr-Andrew-Wakefields-MMR-study-false.html

This was the doctor that Jenny McCarthy based all of her little cottage industry on if I'm correct.



The ongoing slam-fest of Dr. Andrew Wakefield in the media is another indicator of pro-vaccine paranoia. Pundits, doctors, and alleged experts continue to virulently slander Wakefield in an attempt to discredit him. But those who have done their homework know that not only are the allegations against Wakefield false, but the man's work concerning the link between the MMR vaccine and both entero-colitis and autism is completely valid (http://www.naturalnews.com/031116_D...).

Then, there was the recent 6-2 Supreme Court decision in the case of Bruesewitz v Wyeth that denied parents of vaccine-damaged children from seeking justice against vaccine manufacturers. Even when children suffer immediate and obvious damage following a vaccination, that apparently is not enough evidence for pro-vaccine fanatics in both the government and the public to admit that something is wrong (http://www.naturalnews.com/031453_S...).

These and many other examples represent the reason why we must fight to both expose the truth about vaccines, and to protect vaccine freedom of choice. The good news is that these efforts are no longer taking place on the fringe -- many highly-esteemed doctors, medical professionals, and other experts are finally admitting that the safety of vaccines has not received the scrutiny it deserves, and thousands, if not millions, of children are paying the price.

The public deserves to know the truth about real vaccination risk, as well as what is really driving the pro-vaccine agenda. That is why the launch of Vaccine Epidemic is so important -- it provides informed, well-reasoned opposition to the pro-vaccine crusaders who bend science to support their flawed views. If you have not yet checked out the book for yourself, be sure to visit:
http://vaccineepidemic.com/

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/031579_Vaccine_Epidemic_book.html#ixzz1KaLNO6f2

[libertyjam]

The pro vax camp has sought to limit the discussion about vaccines to just one component, ie. the thimerisol or mercury containing compound. To allow them to do so is to let them in some ways define the fight and the propaganda. But as bad as mercury containing compounds likely are, it is not the whole story. If all mercury compounds were eliminated from every vaccine, multi-doses and all, there still would be very dangerous side effects possible with vaccines.
First what are some of the other ingredients of vaccines?
-The viral ingredients that go into vaccines are absolutely horrifying, and they include stealth viruses that are not listed on the label, as well as DNA taken from diseased animals such as cows and monkeys.
-Stray viruses and bacteria from the animal cell cultures that vaccines are made in.
-Aluminum, a poison that can cause bone, bone marrow and brain degeneration.
-Animal cells from monkeys, dog kidneys, chickens, cows, and humans.
-Formaldehyde (embalming fluid), a known carcinogen.
-Polysorbate 80, known to cause infertility in female mice and testicular atrophy in male mice.
-Gelatin, from pigs and cows, known to cause anaphylactic reactions, is found in large quantities in the MMR, chickenpox and shingles vaccines.
-Monosodium glutamate (MSG) in inhaled flu vaccines, is known to cause metabolic disturbances (e.g. diabetes), seizures and other neurologic disorders.

From the history of vaccines, we find that neurologic disorders, encephalopathy, and other diseases have always been known to be risks associated with the vaccine even without added toxic adjuvents and preservatives.


In 1855, Massachusetts passed the first US law requiring vaccination for school children. The one and only vaccination required was for smallpox. This vaccine carried the risk of encephalitis, or inflammation of the brain, which can lead to permanent brain damage. The resulting damage can and does affect any bodily function.

In the 1920s, diphtheria vaccine was introduced. Potential nerve damage resulting from this vaccine includes encephalopathy (coma, decreased level of consciousness, or prolonged seizures) and Guillain-Barrѐ syndrome. During the 1950s tetanus vaccine came on the scene, carrying with it the risk of paresthesia (burning, itching or tingling skin sensations associated with peripheral nerve damage) and convulsions.

Polio vaccine also entered the marketplace in the 1950s adding potential nerve damage that included encephalopathy and other progressive neurological disorders, including Guillain-Barrѐ syndrome. At this point in time, with few exceptions, vaccines were not mandatory; nor were they subsidized by the government. Two significant events altered that situation. The first was the Vaccination Assistance Act of 1962, when the government decided to help local governments supply low cost vaccines to their citizens. The second was in 1970, when the CDC mounted a nationwide rubella vaccine campaign quickly followed by a campaign to eradicate measles.

These two vaccines, rubella and measles, introduced additional risk of nerve damage in the form of febrile seizures, paresthesia, and myalgia resulting from nerve damage.

By 1981, all 50 states had mandated measles, diphtheria, polio, and rubella vaccine for school attendance. Most states also included the newer tetanus, mumps and pertussis vaccines. Each addition brought the potential for additional nerve damage via encephalopathy and/or Guillain-Barrѐ syndrome. The risk of nerve damage increased with each additional vaccine.

Consider the fact that in 1980 the recommended vaccination schedule included only four vaccines, five doses of DPT/OPV (which covered diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus and polio), one dose of MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) and a booster Dt (diphtheria/tetanus).

Fast forward to the current recommended vaccination schedule with over 30 doses of vaccines for fifteen diseases before the age of six. Several more are added for ages seven through 18, not to mention the currently recommended vaccines for adults. Nearly all of them are required for school attendance in most states. Is it any wonder neurological disorders resulting from nerve damage have reached epidemic proportions?

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/031476_vaccines_nerve_damage.html#ixzz1KaPrEdjc

[One Last Battle!]

Why have ANY mercury put in vaccines? Seriously why? Also I'm not the one saying that a "trace" amount is different from zero. The FDA is saying that! But hey. It's safe. Mercury is good for you. And now radiation is good for you. Ann Coulter said so, so it must be true.

Edit: I'm still waiting for your comment on the EPA's reversal on flouride. Oh, and infants don't eat fish.

(A) There is mercury in vaccines because it is a good preservative among other things.

(B) Okay, there is a trace amount of mercury in a vaccine. As someone else said, you will get more mercury from eating a tuna sandwich. There is lead in the air, too, but you aren't demanding that people live in insulated shelters to avoid it. Actually, there is more lead in the air then there is mercury in vaccines. Actually, there is even arsenic, a very dangerous element, found in both the air AND in food! Should we cease to eat food or breathe because of the nasty elements we acquire by doing so?

Don't get me wrong, sometimes a vaccine WILL have a bad effect on a person; but the chance is incredibly low. Mind, I didn't bother with a Swine Flu vaccine because I figured the vaccine would be more likely to cause danger to me than the disease, but most vaccines for nasty diseases are relatively safe, anyway. Even assuming you are right, which is worse: a single child with autism, or a thousand with smallpox/measles/mumps/etc? I know I would take take the first option over the second any day.

(C) Seeing as how you mentioned it, it is pretty simple to deduce that there was no conspiracy behind 9/11. First, Occam's Razor states that the simplest answer is usually the correct one. So, which is more simple: terrorists, angry at the US for imperialism, hijacked planes and flew them into important buildings, or the US government blew up its own buildings without a single person responsible spilling the beans and simultaneously framing Middle Easterners (while, for some unfathomable reason, putting the blame on people primarily from American allies rather than potential targets)? Could the US government be responsible? Sure, I guess. But then, it COULD have been done by invisible pot smoking monkeys from Mars with advanced cloaking technology and invisible pot smoking monkey bombs.

Second, ignoring the planes and buildings themselves (other people have already dealt with that sufficiently for Occam's Razor to apply), what happened to the passengers and crew of the doomed planes? That has always been the truther's weak spot. There are a couple of explanations, all of them pretty absurd: first, they might be all working for the US government. Considering that there were hundreds of them and that they were all from different backgrounds, nationalities, ethnicities, and many had large families, that is highly unlikely (to say the least). Second, they might have all been killed by the CIA/FBI/etc. This is more reasonable then the other explanations, but it doesn't answer the simple question of how they were killed. They obviously got onto the planes (if they didn't, look at the explanation below), so they weren't all abducted by crack teams of CIA agents before reaching the airport, and they clearly weren't killed AT the airport. Where were they killed, then? The only logical place for that to be possible would be ON the planes, but then there are two problems. First, the killers wouldn't have been able to escape except by parachute. But then they would have easily been spotted by the videos of people watching. Admittedly they could have jumped off earlier (though even then they would have likely been spotted by someone), but then who was FLYING the planes? Second, the people who overpowered the "terrorists" on one of the planes would have exposed the US gov. if they were government agents. That means only one possible conspiracy exists (see bottom). Finally, the people might have never existed, fabrications by the US government. This would require that either their "families" be fake, or their families be all working for the US government, both of which are completely silly. Therefore, the only possible conspiracy the Feds could have pulled off would be if Federal agents actually PRETENDED to be terrorists, hijacked the planes themselves, and suicide bombed the buildings on their own. I haven't actually heard of any theories along those lines, so most truthers have no good explanation for what happened to the passengers. Therefore, the "planned demolition" idea has no ground to stand on until it explains where those passengers went.

Again, there is another possible thing that could have happened: maybe the US government had some knowledge of the attacks and, either because of incompetence/negligence or for the purpose of using them as excuses, did nothing to stop them (like Roosevelt with Pearl Harbour). That is entirely possible, but that the US government blew the buildings up is not very likely.

[libertyjam]

According to Shelly Burgess, an FDA spokesperson, the FDA and CDC "have not detected new safety concerns or unusual reporting patterns." That's odd, because the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), jointly operated by the FDA and CDC, has received more than 59,000 reports of adverse reactions to pneumococcal and Hib vaccines during the past several years. More than half of these cases - 30,094 - required hospitalization, with 2,169 deaths. About 95 percent of these deaths were in children under three years of age.

In the last five years, from 2006 through 2010, 17,595 people in the U.S. reported adverse reactions to pneumococcal and Hib vaccines; 464 of these people died after receiving their shots. It should also be noted that these numbers only represent "official" reports to VAERS. The former head of the FDA, David Kessler, has estimated that for every official report of an adverse drug reaction, about 100 other people are also hurt but fail to make a report.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/031820_vaccinations_babies.html#ixzz1KaTn6net

[libertyjam]

The thimerosal debate continues
Along with the enormous amount of controversy surrounding this issue, the five-year-old plea for "more research" may have finally produced some results. Burton Goldberg notes that a defect in the myelinization process (insulation of nerve fibers) could explain mercury's propensity to cause autism and neurological damage. This may also account for the frequent development of epilepsy in older autistic children.

Scientists are also working on biological links that support the strong correlations. Researchers at Northeastern University, working with scientists from the University of Nebraska, Tufts and Johns Hopkins University, may have recently found the mechanism by which thimerosal interferes with brain activity. If these researchers are right, vaccine manufacturers could do little to keep the damaging effects of thimerosal hidden.

Pharmacy professor Richard Deth and colleagues found that exposure to thimerosal potently interrupts growth factor signaling, causing adverse effects on the transfer of carbon atoms. These carbon atoms play a significant role in regulating normal DNA function and gene expression and are critical to proper neurological development. Additionally, the scientists recently obtained more insight into the mechanism by which thimerosal interferes with folate-dependent methylation. The mechanism inhibits the biosynthesis of the active form of vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin), a vitamin now being administered to autistic children.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/011764_thimerosal_mercury.html#ixzz1KaV7RHMU

[jmdrake]

(A) There is mercury in vaccines because it is a good preservative among other things.

Except the mercury has been taken out completely from some vaccines so clearly it's not necessary.



(B) Okay, there is a trace amount of mercury in a vaccine. As someone else said, you will get more mercury from eating a tuna sandwich.


That's not a problem for developing infant brains because, like I already said infants don't eat fish.



(C) Seeing as how you mentioned it, it is pretty simple to deduce that there was no conspiracy behind 9/11. First, Occam's Razor states that the simplest answer is usually the correct one.


Like most "debunkers" you are misquoting Occam's razor. I don't know if you are doing this on purpose or not. I'll assume the "simplest" explanation that you were just mis-informed about Occam's razor. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
The principle is often inaccurately summarized as "the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one." This summary is misleading, however, since the principle is actually focused on shifting the burden of proof in discussions. That is, the razor is a principle that suggests we should tend towards simpler theories (see justifications section below) until we can trade some simplicity for increased explanatory power. Contrary to the popular summary, the simplest available theory is sometimes a less accurate explanation. Philosophers also add that the exact meaning of "simplest" can be nuanced in the first place.[4]

Bertrand Russell offered what he called "a form of Occam's Razor" which was "Whenever possible, substitute constructions out of known entities for inferences to unknown entities."[5]

Occam's razor is attributed to the 14th-century English logician, theologian and Franciscan friar Father William of Ockham (d'Okham) although the principle was familiar long before.[6] The words attributed to Occam are "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" (entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem), although these actual words are not to be found in his extant works.[7] The saying is also phrased as pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate ("plurality should not be posited without necessity").[8] To quote Isaac Newton, "We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. Therefore, to the same natural effects we must, so far as possible, assign the same causes."

Mis-applying Occam's razor the way you are we should believe that the earth is actually a turtle floating in the sea. That is the "simplest explanation". It's just not the correct one.



So, which is more simple: terrorists, angry at the US for imperialism, hijacked planes and flew them into important buildings, or the US government blew up its own buildings without a single person responsible spilling the beans and simultaneously framing Middle Easterners (while, for some unfathomable reason, putting the blame on people primarily from American allies rather than potential targets)?


To reach that "simple conclusion" you have to ignore reams of evidence that doesn't fit it. For example you ignore the fact that, according to Indian intelligence and confirmed (off record) by the FBI the head of Pakistani intelligence funded the attacks. You also have to ignore that 2 planes somehow took out 3 buildings in Manhattan. That last bit of information was enough to sway both Judge Andrew Napolitano, not a "conspiracy hack" by any stretch of the imagination, and Geraldo Rivera, someone who used to mock 9/11 truthers, that the official government story cannot possibly be right. You also have to ignore the fact that the head of the U.S. Defense Intelligence School said some of the hijackers had trained at his base. You also have to ignore the fact that FBI agent Colleen Rowley was blocked by the justice department from even getting putting in a request to the FISA court for a warrant to look at "12th hijacker" Zacharias Moussoui's computer. You have to ignore the fact that Pakistan was fighting with the Taliban at the outset of the Afghan war, and that the U.S. government paused the invasion long enough to let the Pakistanis (and Osama Bin Laden) escape. Really, if you ignore all of the facts to force fit your beliefs you can. But don't blame your abuse of the facts on Occam.



Second, ignoring the planes and buildings themselves (other people have already dealt with that sufficiently for Occam's Razor to apply), what happened to the passengers and crew of the doomed planes? That has always been the truther's weak spot.


That's a silly straw man argument. Who said the planes didn't fly into the buildings? Certainly not me. But you have to build up straw men to come to apply Occam's razor the way you want. No, this is not a "truther weak spot" at all. In the 1993 WTC bombing, there was an FBI informant on the inside who built the bomb. He sought to use fake explosives but he was told by his handlers to use real ones. So he did. That is on the record. The rest of the "terrorists" were dupes who thought they were doing a service for Allah. You are presenting a false choice where either everybody worked for the government or everybody worked exclusively for Al Qaeda. That is not the way black ops usually work.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2vpcABWJiY



Again, there is another possible thing that could have happened: maybe the US government had some knowledge of the attacks and, either because of incompetence/negligence or for the purpose of using them as excuses, did nothing to stop them (like Roosevelt with Pearl Harbour). That is entirely possible, but that the US government blew the buildings up is not very likely.

Right. The same government that is sooooo incompetent that they can be outsmarted by bedouins somehow is soooooo competent that it can put a man on the moon. So do you believe the moon landing conspiracy theory? After all it's "simpler" to fake one (Hollywood does it all the time) than to actually put a man on the moon and bring him back safe again.

[Anti Federalist]

Again, there is another possible thing that could have happened: maybe the US government had some knowledge of the attacks and, either because of incompetence/negligence or for the purpose of using them as excuses, did nothing to stop them (like Roosevelt with Pearl Harbour). That is entirely possible, but that the US government blew the buildings up is not very likely.

If it was incompetence/negligence, then how many people were held accountable, fired, demoted, brought up on charges or in any way disciplined for this act of gross negligence?

It's a rhetorical question, the answer is no one.

If the latter scenario is correct, that government knew what was going to happen and let it/helped it happen on purpose, (which is what I happen to believe, FWIW) then how is that any different than blowing up the buildings themselves?

Another rhetorical question, the answer is, it is not any different.

[Anti Federalist]

Open question to the pro vaccine people:

Do you support vaccines as a mandatory medication?

[dannno]

That's not a problem for developing infant brains because, like I already said infants don't eat fish.
.

Well actually it can find it's way into breast milk.. a study I saw said that it can be up to 27% of what the mom's blood levels are, so I don't know how significant that is.

I still maintain that eating it is a lot different than injecting it straight into your blood.

[jmdrake]

If it was incompetence/negligence, then how many people were held accountable, fired, demoted, brought up on charges or in any way disciplined for this act of gross negligence?

It's a rhetorical question, the answer is no one.

If the latter scenario is correct, that government knew what was going to happen and let it/helped it happen on purpose, (which is what I happen to believe, FWIW) then how is that any different than blowing up the buildings themselves?

Another rhetorical question, the answer is, it is not any different.

I was firmly in the LIHOP (let it happen on purpose) camp until it became clear that parts of the 9/11 story just couldn't be explained simply by LIHOP. For example, did the terrorists just get "lucky" and pick a day to launch their attacks where our air defenses would be on the other side of the country with "ghost planes" in their radar simulating hijacked aircraft? Or did someone on the inside tell them the opportune time to launch the attack? And what about all of the interference that was done to keep people off of Al Qaeda's trail? It wasn't incompetence that kept Colleen Rowley from Moussoui's laptop. Part of me wishes I was still in the LIHOP camp. :(

[Anti Federalist]

I maintain that it is the vaccines themselves, given in combination and at an earlier age, that is causing the problem.

Graph and story; Autism rates climb and recede with number of MMR vaccines given in Japan.

Japanese & British Data Show Vaccines Cause Autism

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/japvaxautism/

http://childhealthsafety.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/080603_terada_graph.jpg?w=468&h=373&h=373

[squarepusher]

Mercury is healthy in children, I don't know what you are talking about

[Anti Federalist]

Mercury is healthy in children, I don't know what you are talking about

Engaging in CrimeThink.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyR2XeLjYTU

[Anti Federalist]

Re-post

Open question to the pro vaccine people:

Do you support vaccines as a mandatory medication?

[maqsur]

no

[Acala]

Re-post

Open question to the pro vaccine people:

Do you support vaccines as a mandatory medication?

Hell no.