Vaccine Researcher Indicted for Fraud

[youngbuck]

http://drdavidbrownstein.blogspot.com/

According to CNBC, “Paul Thorsen, the principal coordinator of multiple studies funded by the CDC used to deny a vaccine/autism link was indicted April 13th on thirteen counts of fraud and nine counts of money-laundering. The charges relate to funding for work he conducted for the CDC which claimed to disprove associations between the mercury-based vaccine preservative, thimerosal, and increased rates of autism.” This was first reported by the consumer group, SafeMinds.

I remember when these studies came out. They came out in rapid-fire succession just after previously-released studies began to show there was a link between autism and mercury-preserved vaccines. I was not surprised that the Thorsen articles came out so fast as Big Pharma had to do something to quiet the growing complaints about mercury in vaccines.

Do I think that mercury-containing vaccines cause autism? Before I answer that, let me state a few points. I believe there is no justification for ever injecting in any living being with the third most toxic element known to mankind. As the wise man Forrest Gump said, “Stupid is as stupid does.” What do you expect will happen when you inject a known neurotoxin, in large amounts, to a small baby?

I have no doubt that mercury toxicity, in large part from vaccines, is probably one factor responsible for the rapid rise of autism. In fact, mercury toxicity is a common problem in many of the patients that I see. However, in our toxic world, there are many other items we are exposed to on a daily basis that can also disrupt the normal neurological development in a newborn such as lead, arsenic, nickel, cadmium and bromine.

What can you do? Number one; don’t let anyone inject mercury in your body. Most of the flu vaccines still have mercury in them. They should be avoided. Next, don’t let any dentist put a mercury filling in your mouth. Any dentist that still defends the use of mercury does not deserve your business. Next, eat a healthy diet free of pesticides and other chemicals that are harmful to your body. Finally, take the appropriate supplements to ensure that your detoxification pathways are optimally functioning.

Which supplements should you take? There are many items that aid the detoxification pathways including vitamins C and E, alpha lipoic acid, magnesium and glutathione.

[acptulsa]

Not to belittle this point, which I in no way want to do, but no small part of the reason 'autism rates are skyrocketing' is when I was a kid, you had to be Rain Man's brother before you were considered autistic. Nowadays, I'd probably get hung with that label myself.

But hey. If the federal government doesn't reclassify us all as handicapped, then what good are they? They have to keep their customer count up...

[NiceGoing]

Not to belittle this point, which I in no way want to do, but no small part of the reason 'autism rates are skyrocketing' is when I was a kid, you had to be Rain Man's brother before you were considered autistic. Nowadays, I'd probably get hung with that label myself.

Then you should not belittle it. The gov. doesn't need YOUR help- nor anyone's-to muddy the waters just fine, unfortunately! No matter how you slant it, autism, the genuine kind, has risen astronomically with the advent of the Government-sponsored *Jabs*.... Ugh.

[acptulsa]

The gov. doesn't need YOUR help- nor anyone's-to muddy the waters just fine, unfortunately!

Oh sure they do. The Propaganda Machine--Your tax dollars at work! :rolleyes:

Nothing like being forced to pay for your own obfuscation and brainwashing.

[BucksforPaul]

Is tmosley still around or has another taken its place as the official Pharmaceutical Hasbara?

[erowe1]

No matter how you slant it, autism, the genuine kind, has risen astronomically with the advent of the Government-sponsored *Jabs*.

I'm skeptical of that claim. Got any evidence for it?

[BucksforPaul]

Look around you and ask the older generation if they saw this many children crippled during their childhood. How many of the baby boomers are autistic or have they died already?

Anyone that describes mercury as a "preservative" in order to justify its use in poisoning babies is a lying fuck and should not be believed. Just one drop of mercury in an average home size swimming pool (in ground) makes it unsafe for a grown human to swim in it, but it's safe to directly inject it into infants. :rolleyes:

[heavenlyboy34]

I'm skeptical of that claim. Got any evidence for it?

How's this?

http://depletedcranium.com/aut_prev.jpg

[smartguy911]

How's this?

http://depletedcranium.com/aut_prev.jpg

that is some scary stuff. So the solution is don't get kids vaccinated?

[awake]

If you had to explain the autism rates in a more rational way it would be with the observation of how health issues are funded. Autism is the magic money button currently, the researchers and mental health apparatus knows this. For those who remember, the magic money button used to be ADHD not long ago. '"The diagnosis" gets money; more diagnoses more funding; more funding more diagnosis.

But the critical point is this: The funding comes from the same control spout that buys research to help guide the way to maximize taxation in the least painful way to government.

[NiceGoing]

Look around you and ask the older generation if they saw this many children crippled during their childhood. How many of the baby boomers are autistic or have they died already?

Anyone that describes mercury as a "preservative" in order to justify its use in poisoning babies is a lying fuck and should not be believed. Just one drop of mercury in an average home size swimming pool (in ground) makes it unsafe for a grown human to swim in it, but it's safe to directly inject it into infants. :rolleyes:

This, together with the irrefutable statistics, is the perfect argument. Thanks. :)

[dannno]

I'm skeptical of that claim. Got any evidence for it?


New Study Verifies Mercury In Flu Shots Is Toxic

SILVER SPRING, Md., March 22, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ — CoMeD — Yet another peer-reviewed, scientific study proving the connection between the mercury in medicine and human illnesses has just been released. The latest study is the sixth one published in recent months. This report specifically examines the harm inflicted on developing fetuses and children by Thimerosal, a mercury-based compound routinely used as a preservative in flu shots.

Members of non-profit groups like the Coalition for Mercury-free Drugs (CoMeD) are actively sharing the latest scientific data about the dangers of medical mercury with the public, largely because they recognize that the mercury in Thimerosal is a factor in numerous childhood diseases.

Thimerosal is the Eli Lilly trade name for sodium ethylmercurithiosalicylate when used as a preservative in vaccines and other drug products. It is also known as "Thiomersal" in Europe and "Merthiolate" when used as an antiseptic. Consisting of approximately 49.6% mercury by weight, Thimerosal has been phased out of many vaccines in the United States because of concerns about its "potential risk." However, it is still in most flu shots even though much safer, cost-effective alternatives are already being used.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-study-verifies-mercury-in-flu-shots-is-toxic-118432874.html

..

[teacherone]

How's this?

http://depletedcranium.com/aut_prev.jpg

i could overlay that graph with

- # of cell phones/ capita

- concentration of atmospheric C02 particles

- the price of gold

and "prove" that each one caused autism.

[teacherone]

like this:

http://www.rationalfuturist.com/writings/mcmpaper_html_m7f214901.gif


http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/zFacts-CO2-Temp.gif


http://goldprice.org/charts/history/gold_20_year_o_b_usd.png?0.8296226100064814


personally, i think the gold did it.

[Zippyjuan]

How's this?

http://depletedcranium.com/aut_prev.jpg

Just a question- thimerisol was removed from vaccines intended for children by 2001 (yes, it is still in some flu vaccines but that is not considered a vaccine for kids and versions without it are available). If it was the cause of autism, why doesn't the graph change shape after then? Rates should be going down- or at the very least going up a lot more slowly.

One possible factor is that the definition of what is autism (actually called autism spectrum disorder since it covers a lot of things) and things which used to be called something else are now also considered autism.
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/news/local_montana/article_dd42ccf8-d401-11de-bede-001cc4c03286.html

But Doty cautioned that the growth might not really be an increase in autistic children. It could be that children who had previously been labeled mentally retarded were reclassified as autistic, he said.

In 1997, the federal definition of autism changed, and Montana changed its definition two years later. In 1999, children were called autistic if they were diagnosed before age 3 and only if they had the classic signs of autism, not “autistic-like behavior such as ... Asperger’s disorder.”

“It very, very, very, very specifically said if you have Asperger’s, you are not a kid with autism,” Doty said.

In Asperger’s disorder, a person is socially impaired but typically suffers no significant delays in other developmental areas.

The new definition lasted only one year, when 127 children were classified as autistic. In 2000, the state changed its definition again, this time not excluding children with Asperger’s or “autistic-like” characteristics. The new definition also eliminated the need for diagnosis before age 3.

Under the new definition, the number of children with autism has increased from 165 in 2000 to 495 in 2008.

But there is one more change that took place during that time and affected the numbers, Doty cautioned. In 2001, the state began to include children ages 3 to 5 in its count. Before, it had only counted people ages 6 through 21.

Prior to 2001, children between the ages of 3 and 5 were only considered “children with a disability,” Doty explained.

The numbers have climbed steadily for people ages 6 to 21 over the last nine years, from 165 in 2000 to 441 in 2008.

That growth may be in the number of people diagnosed with Asperger’s, Doty said. He has not had time to delve into researching what is driving the increase, but he points to the relatively flat number of 3- to 5-year-olds diagnosed with autism as evidence.

The number of autistic 3- to 5-year-olds hasn’t changed much since 2005. Because Asperger’s affects social skills and a person’s ability to interact with others, children usually aren’t diagnosed until they reach school age.

The average age for diagnosis is about 11, Doty said. He speculated that perhaps the children in the 3- to 5-year-old category are mostly those with classic autism.


Adding more things to what is considered to be autism will increase the total number of autism cases without necessarily changing the actual rate. There might not actually be no more people with autism than there were before, just more called autistic.

[angelatc]

How's this?

http://depletedcranium.com/aut_prev.jpg


How do you account for the fact that Thermisol was removed from vaccines in 2001? Shouldn't the curve start immediately trending the other way if there's a direct relationship?

[angelatc]

Just a question- thimerisol was removed from vaccines intended for children by 2001 (yes, it is still in some flu vaccines but that is not considered a vaccine for kids and versions without it are available). If it was the cause of autism, why doesn't the graph change shape after then? Rates should be going down- or at the very least going up a lot more slowly.

One possible factor is that the definition of what is autism (actually called autism spectrum disorder since it covers a lot of things) and things which used to be called something else are now also considered autism.
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/news/local_montana/article_dd42ccf8-d401-11de-bede-001cc4c03286.html

Adding more things to what is considered to be autism will increase the total number of autism cases without necessarily changing the actual rate. There might not actually be no more people with autism than there were before, just more called autistic.

And more agencies that get funded for providing services to autistic kids, too.

[Acala]

The same medical establishment that pronounces thimerisol to be safe also controls medical diagnosis and the compilation of medical statistics. And one of the worst of all Federal agencies - the EPA - is responsible for establishing the supposed toxicity of mercury. So which is it? Does the government always lie or does it always tell the truth or does it tell the truth when it supports your theory and lie when it doesn't?

Just an observation. I don't know what causes autism. NOBODY does.

[Zippyjuan]

We have seen simliar results with ADD/ADHD diagnosies. What used to be an undiciplined child or simply a bored acting up kid is given a diagnosis and pills to take for it.

[Kelly.]

Anyone that describes mercury as a "preservative" in order to justify its use in poisoning babies is a lying fuck and should not be believed. Just one drop of mercury in an average home size swimming pool (in ground) makes it unsafe for a grown human to swim in it, but it's safe to directly inject it into infants. :rolleyes:
completely agree.

mercury is the most toxic, non radioactive element on the planet. think about that next time you give/get a vaccine or get a tooth filling.

[teacherone]

completely agree.

mercury is the most toxic, non radioactive element on the planet. think about that next time you give/get a vaccine or get a tooth filling.

mercury's not radioactive.

ohhh.... read that wrong. sorry.

[specsaregood]

How do you account for the fact that Thermisol was removed from vaccines in 2001? Shouldn't the curve start immediately trending the other way if there's a direct relationship?

I think the current tinfoil hat argument is that they secretly kept them in there and just said they took them out.

[Zippyjuan]

I think the current tinfoil hat argument is that they secretly kept them in there and just said they took them out.
Perhaps that would be because the figures would not support somebody's pre-conceived ideas on the issue? The United States is not the same place this has occured. Several Eurpoean countries eleminated it before we did and experienced the same results.

[Acala]

completely agree.

mercury is the most toxic, non radioactive element on the planet. think about that next time you give/get a vaccine or get a tooth filling.

No offense, but this is simply wrong. Shall we start naming some? The following are all more toxic than mercury in elemental form: fluorine, chlorine, bromine, and arsenic. And that is right off the top of my head. Some of the rare earths are worse, and beryllium, lead, and cadmium are probably just as bad. Of course some elements are so volatile they are unstable in air and you could not even hold them in your hand without being severely burned.

Furthermore, limiting this to elements doesn't make sense since the mercury that was in vaccines was not in elemental form, but was incorporated into an organic compound. Mercury in organic form is likely to be more toxic than elemental mercury since it is more likely to be absorbed into the tissue. But thimerisol doesn't even get close to being on the list of toxic organic compounds.

Hyperbole that is totally unsupported by facts doesn't help the case.

[Zippyjuan]

Yes, there are two basic forms of mercury- ethyl and methyl. One is much more readily removed by the body than the other. Ethyl mercury is the organic compound and is the one used in vaccines. The second is methyl mercury and that is the one associated with mercury toxcity and the sort you might see indicated on a seafood warning like say tuna fish.
http://www.myomancy.com/2005/05/ethyl_mercury_v

One of the proposed links between Mercury and Autism is Thimerosal, a compound that has been used in vaccinations. A new study [PDF of abstract] from the University of Washington, Seattle, USA has examine the different effects of ethyl mercury, used in Thimerosal, and methyl mercury, commonly used in industrial processes. Most of the toxicology data on mercury is based on accidental exposure to Methyl Mercury in the work place.

The study inject new born monkeys with either ethyl mercury (in the form of thimerosal) or methyl mercury in doses equivalent to that found in vaccinations for human babies. Mercury levels were then monitored and it was found that the ethyl mercury cleared from the body a lot quicker than the methyl mercury. Critically brain concentrations of total mercury were significantly lower by about three-fold for the thimerosal exposed infants when compared to the methyl mercury infants. This is important because mercury causes brain damage only through long-term exposure (a fact that gave us the phrase ‘as mad as a hatter‘). Thus if the body is cleaning itself quickly of the ethyl mercury, it doesn’t have the chance to build up and cause damage.

Coverage from Rueters: Mercury in Vaccines Different, Study Shows



The half life of ethyl mercury (the time it takes for half of it to be gone from your body) is less than one week.
http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/healthday/080131/mercury-in-childhood-vaccines-excreted-quickly.htm

"Thimerosal has been used for decades, but the surge in vaccinations caused fear that possible accumulations of ethyl mercury, the kind in thimerosal, might exceed safe levels -- at least, when based on the stringent risk guidelines applied to its better-understood chemical cousin, methyl mercury, which is associated with eating fish," lead researcher Dr. Michael Pichichero, a professor of microbiology/immunology, pediatrics and medicine at the University of Rochester, said in a statement.

"One of the unanswered questions when this first popped up as a controversy was, when you got thimerosal as an injection, how long would it stay in your blood," study co-author Dr. John Treanor, a professor of medicine at the University of Rochester Medical Center, said.

The new research, he added, showed that "the levels of thimerosal don't go very high, and they go down right away. By the time it's time for the next dose of vaccine, the levels are right back to where they were at the beginning."

For its study, Pichichero's team tracked 216 infants from R. Gutierrez Children's Hospital in Buenos Aires, Argentina, where thimerosal is still routinely used in vaccines. Use of thimerosal in childhood vaccines was discontinued in the United States after a joint decision in 1999 by U.S. health officials, pediatricians and vaccine manufacturers.

The infants in the study were put into three age groups and their blood-mercury levels were tested both before and after vaccinations were given to newborns, and at their 2- and 6-month checkups.

Pichichero's group found that for all three age groups, the half-life of ethyl mercury in the blood -- the time it takes for the body to get rid of half the mercury, and then another half, and so on -- was 3.7 days. That's significantly less than the half-life of methyl mercury, the kind found in fish, at 44 days.

"Until recently, that longer half-life was assumed to be the rule for both types of mercury. Now it's obvious that ethyl mercury's short half-life prevents toxic build-up from occurring. It's just gone too fast," Pichichero said.

"If you thought thimerosal was responsible for autism, you would be looking at mercury levels that were far below anything anyone's previously thought as being toxic," Treanor added.

[dannno]

New Information Verifying Mercury (thimersol)/Autism Link

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?289075-New-Information-Verifying-Mercury-(thimersol)-Autism-Link

[Anti Federalist]

personally, i think the gold did it.

Pretty weak strawmen.

Nobody is injecting gold, cel phones or CO2 into newborn babies.

[Anti Federalist]

I maintain that it is the vaccines themselves, given in combination and at an earlier age, that is causing the problem.

Graph and story; Autism rates climb and recede with number of MMR vaccines given in Japan.

Japanese & British Data Show Vaccines Cause Autism

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/japvaxautism/

http://childhealthsafety.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/080603_terada_graph.jpg?w=468&h=373&h=373

[erowe1]

How's this?

http://depletedcranium.com/aut_prev.jpg

Not very good, since that shows the number of people diagnosed as autistic, which gets back to the very problem that NiceGoing mentioned.

Is there anything better than this? Like something that supports the claim that genuine autism (as opposed to diagnosis of autism) has increased significantly, when using a constant definition?

[BucksforPaul]

I maintain that it is the vaccines themselves, given in combination and at an earlier age, that is causing the problem.

Graph and story; Autism rates climb and recede with number of MMR vaccines given in Japan.

Japanese & British Data Show Vaccines Cause Autism

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/japvaxautism/

http://childhealthsafety.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/080603_terada_graph.jpg?w=468&h=373&h=373

Don't vaccines act as an immune depressant especially when given to newborns? What type of kooky "science" would justify weakening an already fragile immune system?

[BucksforPaul]

Is there anything better than this? Like something that supports the claim that genuine autism (as opposed to diagnosis of autism) has increased significantly, when using a constant standard?

Yes, all you have to do is find Americans in their 60s and ask them if they saw this many autistic children in their younger years. The answers that you will receive will be more closer to that graph and I warn you to be prepared because you will hear personal stories of their grandchildren presently suffering from this man made epidemic.

I love it when people point out that the powers that be decided to finally stop poisoning newborn babies with mercury in 2001. So would any of you like to tell us how many went to jail for injecting a deadly toxin into tens of millions of infants prior to 2001? But hey, since you don't hear this from your favorite talking head then it must not be true.

[Anti Federalist]

Don't vaccines act as an immune depressant especially when given to newborns? What type of kooky "science" would justify weakening an already fragile immune system?

That's a good question and one I don't have a satisfactory answer for.

All I know is that 30 - 40 years ago, the idea of giving a whole cocktail of vaccines to newborn/6 month old infants would have been considered nuts.

[erowe1]

Yes, all you have to do is find Americans in their 60s and ask them if they saw this many autistic children in their younger years.

"This many" meaning what? What number are you talking about when you say that? And is it the number of people who are autistic as defined by the old standards? Or is it just the number of people diagnosed as autistic?

[erowe1]

I love it when people point out that the powers that be decided to finally stop poisoning newborn babies with mercury in 2001. So would any of you like to tell us how many went to jail for injecting a deadly toxin into tens of millions of infants prior to 2001? But hey, since you don't hear this from your favorite talking head then it must not be true.

You apparently totally misunderstood the point of those in this thread who said that.

If the higher numbers of autism diagnoses are due to Mercury in vaccines, then the numbers would have gone back down after 2001. Since they didn't, we can safely conclude that the two things are unrelated.

And if they are unrelated, then why should anyone go to jail for injecting babies with something that did them no harm?

[NiceGoing]

"This many" meaning what? What number are you talking about when you say that? And is it the number of people who are autistic as defined by the old standards? Or is it just the number of people diagnosed as autistic?

The above quote of yours is a typical example of someone who cares nothing for learning, and ONLY for argumentation and confusion of the issues. If you were in the least sincere about the serious issue of Autism you would bother to read the material of the specialists who HAVE EXPLAINED why vaccines are deadly, especially to very young children.

Your participation here is simply a sham and a distraction.

[erowe1]

The above quote of yours is a typical example of someone who cares nothing for learning, and ONLY for argumentation and confusion of the issues. If you were in the least sincere about the serious issue of Autism you would bother to read the material of the specialists who HAVE EXPLAINED why vaccines are deadly, especially to very young children.

Your participation here is simply a sham and a distraction.

I requested evidence that genuine autism (as opposed to diagnosis of autism) has significantly increased. So far, no one has provided any. It's hard for me to see how this situation indicates that I'm uninterested in learning.

If you have access to such evidence, could you please point me to it?

[dannno]

If the higher numbers of autism diagnoses are due to Mercury in vaccines, then the numbers would have gone back down after 2001. Since they didn't, we can safely conclude that the two things are unrelated.

As was pointed out earlier, there is still thimersol in nearly every vaccine in trace amounts. The govt. says the amount is safe, as AF pointed out, just like they say the amount of fluoride in our water is trace amounts and is safe.. yet recently they admitted that the 'safe' levels of fluoride might be too high.

If you want to do a real test, don't put ANY thimersol in the vaccines, right?

[dannno]

I requested evidence that genuine autism (as opposed to diagnosis of autism) has significantly increased. So far, no one has provided any. It's hard for me to see how this situation indicates that I'm uninterested in learning.

If you have access to such evidence, could you please point me to it?

What they are saying is that if you talk to people from back in the day there were less cases of autism by our standards today. Obviously this is an opinion not based on science, but they are applying the standards of what autism is today to the population of yester-year and noticing a significant percentage increase in the number of autistic people.

It's like all the mothers who take their child in and get vaccines.. then they take them home, the kid has a seizure and are never the same again. It's not science, it's just what is happening. Ignore these incidents at your own peril.

[erowe1]

As was pointed out earlier, there is still thimersol in nearly every vaccine in trace amounts. The govt. says the amount is safe, as AF pointed out, just like they say the amount of fluoride in our water is trace amounts and is safe.. yet recently they admitted that the 'safe' levels of fluoride might be too high.


But the amount that the government declares to be safe for any substance the government considers harmful is practically always too low, and practically always getting lower. It's part of their regulationist M.O. There's nothing odd about that.



If you want to do a real test, don't put ANY thimersol in the vaccines, right?

Sure. But that same test would have to use consistent standards for defining what autism is. You can't say autism has increased, just because there are more diagnoses of autism, when the method of diagnosing autism today is one that declares people autistic who never would have been called autistic before.

[erowe1]

It's not science, it's just what is happening.

If it's not backed up with science, then why should I believe it's happening at all?

If it's true that genuine autism, as opposed to just diagnosis of autism, is increasing, it would be a simple enough thing to prove scientifically. Has this really not been done? If so, I just want to see the evidence (which seems like a harmless request IMHO). If not, then don't those of you who insist autism has dramatically increased see that as a problem in your position?

[dannno]

If it's not backed up with science, then why should I believe it's happening at all?

Because most "science" is bought and paid for by the establishment and big pharma :confused:




If it's true that genuine autism, as opposed to just diagnosis of autism, is increasing, it would be a simple enough thing to prove scientifically. Has this really not been done?


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?289075-New-Information-Verifying-Mercury-(thimersol)-Autism-Link

[erowe1]

Because most "science" is bought and paid for by the establishment and big pharma :confused:

But what about the studies that aren't paid for by the establishment and big pharma? Are there any that exist that show that genuine autism has dramatically increased when applying yesteryear's standards and methods of diagnosis to today's population? If it's true, it would be easy enough to prove.

[Krugerrand]

This is a tough issue. Consider that virtually all pediatric doctors follow everything by the book from the American Academy of Pediatrics. They simply refuse to believe that vaccines can be in any way unsafe, because that's what the AAP says. If your child gets a fever after a shot ... they assume that it was a coincidence ... because they already 'know' that the vaccine cannot cause a reaction. I read an interesting article suggesting that the eradication of Polio is a myth. If you compare the symptoms of polio to the symptoms of a type of meningitis, they are exactly the same. If you walk into a doctors office and show the symptoms - if you had the polio vaccine, you have meningitis, if you did not have the vaccine you have polio. One only needs to look at the swine flu 'epidemic' to know how true this possibility exists. People were advised in hospitals that the hospital required the doctors to classify their illnesses as swine flu - independent of any confirmation of the real illness.

When one looks at the revolving door between the FDA and drug company executives - the FDA becomes suspect as a neutral party. Does a revolving door exist between the AAP and the drug company executives? I would bet so. There is big money to be made on these vaccines. Perhaps even more importantly, there is big money to be lost if it can be proven that they can cause damages.

I'm not confident that the drug companies can be trusted for their testing. I'm not confident that the AAP can be trusted for impartial advice. My experience has been that pediatric doctors rely solely on the AAP and that is dangerous.

EDIT: found some of the information:

Polio has not been eradicated by vaccination, it is lurking behind a redefinition and new diagnostic names like viral or aseptic meningitis. When the first, injectable, polio vaccine was tested on some 1.8 million children in the United States in 1954, within 9 days there was huge epidemic of paralytic polio in the vaccinated and some of their parents and other contacts. The US Surgeon General discontinued the trial for 2 weeks. The vaccinators then put their heads together and came back with a new definition of poliomyelitis. The old, classical, definition: a disease with residual paralysis which resolves within 60 days has been changed to a disease with residual paralysis which persists for more than 60 days. Knowing the reality of polio disease, this nifty but dishonest administrative move excluded more than 90% of polio cases from the definition of polio. Ever since then, when a polio-vaccinated person gets polio, it will not be diagnosed as polio, it will be diagnosed as viral or aseptic meningitis. According to one of the 1997 issues of the MMWR, there are some 30,000 to 50,000 cases of viral meningitis per year in the United States alone. That's where all those 30,000 - 50,000 cases of polio disappeared after the introduction of mass vaccination. One must also be aware that polio is a man-made disease since those well-publicized outbreaks are misrepresented that those huge outbreaks were causally linked to intensified diphtheria and other vaccinations at the relevant time. They even have a name for it: provocation poliomyelitis.
http://www.alternative-doctor.com/vaccination/scheibner.html

[Krugerrand]

But what about the studies that aren't paid for by the establishment and big pharma? Are there any that exist that show that genuine autism has dramatically increased when applying yesteryear's standards and methods of diagnosis to today's population? If it's true, it would be easy enough to prove.

If you are dealing with something that is linked genetically but influenced by outside factors, those studies are difficult to create. It's a cloudy issue. Generally, you can look large scale comparisons between countries that do things in different ways. Both sides tend to simply dismiss the other side's data. That doesn't mean it isn't there.

Also, consider how complicated is is to compare something as seemingly simple as infant death rates across different countries. Now, try and do that with something like autism and its nearly impossible.

Another interesting example is SIDS. Ask people if Sudden Infant Death Syndrome was a real problem in years before our high levels of vaccines. It seems to be a recent problem written off as babies sleeping on their bellies. Just try and suggest that there could be a connection to vaccines. You won't get the time of day because such a connection is simply not allowed.

[BucksforPaul]

You apparently totally misunderstood the point of those in this thread who said that.

If the higher numbers of autism diagnoses are due to Mercury in vaccines, then the numbers would have gone back down after 2001. Since they didn't, we can safely conclude that the two things are unrelated.

And if they are unrelated, then why should anyone go to jail for injecting babies with something that did them no harm?

You are wrong to assume that children are still not being given Thimerosal because you completely ignore the flu shots and other mercury "preservatives."

You apparently completely missed the point so here is a basic fact for you. Mercury is a deadly poison and there are no doubts about that. Injecting this poison into infants should be a crime, but it is not because the powers that be decided it to be so. If Thimerosal was not dangerous then why eventually take it out? You can continue believing the ones who advocated putting poison into children for many decades, but the truth is starting to leak out simply because almost everyone in this country at least knows a person who is suffering from the after-effects of the lethal injections.

[BucksforPaul]

This video is sufficient evidence for anyone who does not have an ulterior motive to muddy the waters in order to distract and delay the truth from being revealed. Peer Reviewed Dr Geier, completely destroys the propaganda of the poisoners using CDC's own date.



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8536564749125540419#

Let us not get distracted from the important subject of the OP because this CDC funded "researcher" is indicted for basically bullshitting for the medical industrial complex.

[erowe1]

You are wrong to assume that children are still not being given Thimerosal because you completely ignore the flu shots and other mercury "preservatives."

You apparently completely missed the point so here is a basic fact for you. Mercury is a deadly poison and there are no doubts about that. Injecting this poison into infants should be a crime, but it is not because the powers that be decided it to be so. If Thimerosal was not dangerous then why eventually take it out? You can continue believing the ones who advocated putting poison into children for many decades, but the truth is starting to leak out simply because almost everyone in this country at least knows a person who is suffering from the after-effects of the lethal injections.

You're right. There is no debate about elemental Mercury being a deadly poison. There is also no debate about the fact that elemental Mercury has never been an ingredient in any vaccines. Sodium and Chlorine are also deadly poisons, but I hope you don't conclude from that that people should be arrested for feeding their children table salt.

I don't know if Thimerosal is harmful. I have never said anything here either way about that. I made a request for some evidence to support a claim some people here were making, a claim that you also apparently agree with (or at least take issue with the fact that I would dare to ask for evidence for it). Do I correctly infer from your post that you are not aware of any such evidence?

[Acala]

Don't vaccines act as an immune depressant especially when given to newborns? What type of kooky "science" would justify weakening an already fragile immune system?

No, vaccines act as an immune STIMULANT. In theory, a vaccine contains an antigen from the pathogenic organism. The invasion of your body by the antigen causes your immune system to respond. Your immune system identifies the antigen as an invader and then creates a template for an antibody tailored to the structure of the antigen. The template for the antibody is stored. Then, if the immunized person is exposed to the live organism, the immune system will respond more quickly because it already recognizes the antigen of the pathogen and can crank out antibodies more quickly and get a jump on the infection.

The theory of immunization is sound. It is actually similar in principle to homeopathic medicine. But the practice of developing and pushing vaccines on the public is another matter entirely and I know that I DON'T know what problems there are with it. But I know the solution: get government OUT of it! Isn't that easy?

[libertyjam]

Actually Bucks is right, and Acala is right in that a vaccine stimulates activity of the immune system. But while the immune response is activated into a defense building anti-bodies for this introduced threat, it is or can be depressed in responding to other pathogens and disease. Normally if just one vaccine, the immune system is not overwhelmed and a normal person may not even notice the response, but response can vary greatly in individuals.

[BucksforPaul]

But the practice of developing and pushing vaccines on the public is another matter entirely and I know that I DON'T know what problems there are with it. But I know the solution: get government OUT of it! Isn't that easy?

I completely agree with this statement.