Westboro Baptist Protestors get Beaten in Mississippi?

[Matt Collins]

Is there any truth to this? :confused:
http://www.retirelikeme.com/2011/04/21/mississippi-town-destroys-westboro-baptist-plans/

[pcosmar]

I don't know. Not my area, but it made me smile. :D

this is how these people should be handled

[TheeJoeGlass]

I don't know. Not my area, but it made me smile. :D

this is how these people should be handled

No, they should be ignored.

[silverhandorder]

They shouldn't be ignored. The whole problem arises with the fact that we have public property. It is an imperfect system and as such I can not judge negatively the people that took the law in their hands.

It is a version of civil disobedience where the majority is being terrorized by small/weak/insignificant minority. These people might not agree with my view and many here probably will not either but they did the right thing.

[Matt Collins]

I'm from Mississippi, and trust me, the corrupt good ole boy network does exist. I'm willing to bet that the local law enforcement knew exactly what happened and in fact possibly colluded with the perps. Just because someone is a creep doesn't give anyone else the right to punch them in the face even though many would say in this case it is indeed well deserved.

[BlackTerrel]

Good for them. Legal or not there are consequences to actions.

[BlackTerrel]

I'm from Mississippi, and trust me, the corrupt good ole boy network is a way of life. I'm willing to bet that the local law enforcement knew exactly what happened and in fact probably colluded with the perps. Just because someone is a creep doesn't give anyone else the right to punch them in the face even though in this case it is indeed well deserved.

Yeah I'm going to go with Mississippi on this one. Now that I'm older I try to walk away from fights but if my family member or friend just passed away and someone showed up at the funeral to heckle I would react the exact same way.

[Chester Copperpot]

I don't know. Not my area, but it made me smile. :D

this is how these people should be handled

+1

[Matt Collins]

That sounds like democratic collectivism to me. Obviously they are not entitled to disrupt or interrupt the proceedings or the private ceremony but do these creeps have no freedom to travel and no freedom to protest simply because the majority has decided they don't?

[silverhandorder]

They do have those freedom but you have to look at the framework where we must operate in. Public property is a construct that can not be justified by logic. How do you decide who gets to use the property at any given time? The public by large has shares in it and as such would have ability to decide what to do with the property. So if majority decides that the property should be used in a certain way within this framework you would have to agree (btw it's impossible to get a consensus since you would have to ask everyone). So while these "protesters" have all the rights you mentioned they should have them as long as their property extends. In a perfect world roads and streets would be private and it would only be a matter of the owner of the street telling them they can not go on his property.

[BlackTerrel]

That sounds like democratic collectivism to me. Obviously they are not entitled to disrupt or interrupt the proceedings or the private ceremony but do these creeps have no freedom to travel and no freedom to protest simply because the majority has decided they don't?

I don't want the government to intervene but if a guy who was friends with the soldier who is being protested happens to punch a couple of these guys in the face I'm not going to get worked up over it.

If the government arrested or intervened against these guys I'd have an issue.

[silverhandorder]

More to the point unclearly defined property rights breed conflict.

[Matt Collins]

I don't want the government to intervene but if a guy who was friends with the soldier who is being protested happens to punch a couple of these guys in the face I'm not going to get worked up over it.So it's ok to violate the rights of another (with violence) if you happen to dislike them or dislike their message?

[jackers]

This is the problem with the Incorporation Doctrine. This universal "free speech" crap should be brought back to the States. This would allow them to make their own rules in regards to protesters like this.

[acptulsa]

So it's ok to violate the rights of another (with violence) if you happen to dislike them or dislike their message?

Have we no right to conduct dignified funerals for our loved ones? I want to punch Phelps just for giving anti-free speech jackasses an excuse.

[Matt Collins]

Have we no right to conduct dignified funerals for our loved ones? I want to punch Phelps just for giving anti-free speech jackasses an excuse.
Yes of course we do. But people also have a right to protest, speak their mind, travel, peaceably assemble, etc. They don't have a right to interrupt or disrupt a private ceremony though.

[acptulsa]

Yes of course we do. But people also have a right to protest, speak their mind, travel, peaceably assemble, etc. They don't have a right to interrupt or disrupt a private ceremony though.

One could argue that they don't peaceably assemble. Instead, they interfere with peaceable assemblies.

[Kregisen]

They shouldn't be ignored. The whole problem arises with the fact that we have public property. It is an imperfect system and as such I can not judge negatively the people that took the law in their hands.

It is a version of civil disobedience where the majority is being terrorized by small/weak/insignificant minority. These people might not agree with my view and many here probably will not either but they did the right thing.

No, theejoeglass is 100% correct. They will keep doing this until they're completely ignored. They only do this for attention. You can try to stop them, and in the process bring them even more attention (I highly doubt westboro is mad about not being able to protest since they made headlines for it). They're just be more prepared next time so their cars aren't stuck between other cars.

The only reason why westboro is still doing this is because americans are stupid and keep giving them what they want....attention. You guys are doing it too.

[Legend1104]

I'm from Mississippi, and trust me, the corrupt good ole boy network is a way of life. I'm willing to bet that the local law enforcement knew exactly what happened and in fact probably colluded with the perps. Just because someone is a creep doesn't give anyone else the right to punch them in the face even though in this case it is indeed well deserved.

Yeah very true. In meridian, ms where I live we finally shucked off the good ole boys except for our corrupt supervisor Boswell, but they have started to try and come back this election.

[silverhandorder]

It is the question of what you will tolerate. You can not tolerate aggression right? This is a form of aggression. If there was a law that said you can not punch back a guy that punches you once and draws blood would you just stand there and let someone hurt you? Ofcourse not. This is the same. Yes ignoring people who are annoying or protesting who you do not agree with is the right thing to do. But I think harassment is a step further than that. Obviously I do not have a good solution. FFS I probably under such circumstances would still support government staying out. I will have hard time judging vigilantes though.

[Matt Collins]

One could argue that they don't peaceably assemble. Instead, they interfere with peaceable assemblies.And if that is true then they should either be escorted away, or arrested and charged as violating property rights.

[AFPVet]

That sounds like democratic collectivism to me. Obviously they are not entitled to disrupt or interrupt the proceedings or the private ceremony but do these creeps have no freedom to travel and no freedom to protest simply because the majority has decided they don't?

I see your point... the speech which needs the most protection is the least popular; however, these people have been trampling on the peaceful assembly of families in mourning for far too long. There must be a balance between the rights of people... one right should not infringe on another.

[specsaregood]

this is how these people should be handled

you gotta be shitting me. Did you miss this part:


A few made it to the funeral but were ushered away to be questioned about a crime they might have possibly been involved in. Turns out, after a few hours of questioning, that they were not involved and they were allowed to go on about their business.”

Arrested on false trumped up charges just to shut them up?! You aren't supporting this, right?


If the government arrested or intervened against these guys I'd have an issue.
But they did intervene.

[pcosmar]

That sounds like democratic collectivism to me. Obviously they are not entitled to disrupt or interrupt the proceedings or the private ceremony but do these creeps have no freedom to travel and no freedom to protest simply because the majority has decided they don't?

No. Not really.
There is freedom of speech and Liberty to do that which is NOT acceptable.
However,,, there are consequences to that which is NOT acceptable.
Getting your ass whupped is one of those consequences.

The simple fact is that some things are socially acceptable and some are not.
Harassing a grieving family is NOT. And it should not be tolerated..
Laws are not necessary,,, honorable citizens are.

[pcosmar]

Arrested on false trumped up charges just to shut them up?! You aren't supporting this, right?

Nope, I have made it clear that I do not support police as a concept let alone in practice. They should not have been arrested.
They should not have been welcome in the community at all. No hotel room, no meals or gas.
Run off at the county line. Stopped peacefully if possible, and by force if necessary.
They should be shunned in their own state and area. If they want to be complete asses they should do it within their own compound, but there is no reason that civilized folks should have to put up with them. Or tolerate their behavior.

[BarryDonegan]

Committing an act of violence against Westboro Baptist Church members should not be endorsed by people in a free society. Talk louder, talk back, ignore, block them from getting to the funeral by filling the space with people, but the moment a fist strikes one of them, they have won.

[Matt Collins]

Nope, I have made it clear that I do not support police as a concept let alone in practice. They should not have been arrested.
They should not have been welcome in the community at all. No hotel room, no meals or gas.
Run off at the county line. Stopped peacefully if possible, and by force if necessary.
They should be shunned in their own state and area. If they want to be complete asses they should do it within their own compound, but there is no reason that civilized folks should have to put up with them. Or tolerate their behavior.



No. Not really.
There is freedom of speech and Liberty to do that which is NOT acceptable.
However,,, there are consequences to that which is NOT acceptable.
Getting your ass whupped is one of those consequences.

The simple fact is that some things are socially acceptable and some are not.
Harassing a grieving family is NOT. And it should not be tolerated..
Laws are not necessary,,, honorable citizens are.
Yes you are advocating violence, the initiation of force, mob rule, democracy, and the abdication of property rights.


Lame


PS - on edit - I think that what you are advocating is actually WORSE than what the Wesboro creeps actually do.

[Pericles]

The saying that there is no law against being an ass works both ways.

[nobody's_hero]

Hard for me to get terribly upset about this. If they were protesting their government, I would certainly feel differently. But protesting funerals because "God hates ****" doesn't exactly stir my revolutionary spirit.

[acptulsa]

Yes you are advocating violence, the initiation of force, mob rule, democracy, and the abdication of property rights.


Lame

If this is how you describe a boycott and/or private enterprise refusing to serve certain parties for just cause, then that lameness is your own. And democracy has its place, even in a republic.


Hard for me to get terribly upset about this. If they were protesting their government, I would certainly feel differently. But protesting funerals because "God hates ****" doesn't exactly stir my revolutionary spirit.

Well, the Supreme Court thinks it's political speech. But it seems to me that political speech should be directed at politicians. It shouldn't interfere with peaceable gatherings of citizens.

Been a long time since I said this, but I think their interpretation was too broad. it's like saying that we should take over the microphones of concert bands and spew our political views.

[Zatch]

They should open carry guns. They have a right to protest but taxpayers shouldn't have to pay the police to be Westboro's personal guards.

[Matt Collins]

If this is how you describe a boycott and/or private enterprise refusing to serve certain parties for just cause, then that lameness is your own. And democracy has its place, even in a republic.No, that's not what I'm referring to.

[BlackTerrel]

So it's ok to violate the rights of another (with violence) if you happen to dislike them or dislike their message?

I'm not a moral arbiter. If someone showed up at the funeral or one of my friends or family and heckled I would respond with violence. Whether that is right or not I don't know.

If these guys get popped in the face I'm not going to cry about it.

[BamaAla]

My give a damn must be busted because I lol'd at this.

No matter what Matt says, the Supreme Court says, or what keyboard philosophers say about a nonaggression principle, when you push people they will eventually fight back. If this was my friend/relative being buried, I'd crush skulls too.

[Pericles]

I'm not a moral arbiter. If someone showed up at the funeral or one of my friends or family and heckled I would respond with violence. Whether that is right or not I don't know.

If these guys get popped in the face I'm not going to cry about it.
Sticking one's nose where it does not belong can result it said nose being punched - in other words.

[BlackTerrel]

Sticking one's nose where it does not belong can result it said nose being punched - in other words.

Well said. +Rep

[AFPVet]

Sticking one's nose where it does not belong can result it said nose being punched - in other words.

Amen.

[sailingaway]

Not the kids, I hope.

[2young2vote]

They are hiding behind the law and the peacefulness of others. The law is only followed because people choose to follow it, all it is going to take is one rogue guy and you can say bye bye to the Westboro Baptist Church protesters. Honestly, if I were them, I would be quite scared. The more people they protest the more likely it is that someone will run them over with a truck or something. I guess what i am saying is that you can't rely on the law to keep you safe and it should be expected that people are going to take action against you if you are bothering them enough.

[pcosmar]

PS - on edit - I think that what you are advocating is actually WORSE than what the Wesboro creeps actually do.

How so?
I advocate local control and local militia.
I do not advocate violence. i accept it as a fact. and use it judiciously.

I see nothing wrong with a snake oil salesman being run out of town.
I see nothing wrong with a community shunning and making unwelcome those that disrupt the peace of a community.

I am likely one of the most tolerant people you will meet. However I do have limits.
I will not tolerate someone that is abusing children. or their wife.
Hit a woman in my presence, I will respond. Violently and immediately.

These people harass and offend people in their grief(deliberately) as a habit. I don't believe that has to be tolerated.

It shouldn't be.

[HarryBrowneLives]

I'm from Mississippi, and trust me, the corrupt good ole boy network is a way of life. I'm willing to bet that the local law enforcement knew exactly what happened and in fact probably colluded with the perps. Just because someone is a creep doesn't give anyone else the right to punch them in the face even though in this case it is indeed well deserved.

Roger that. But, fair warning, people like the Westboro's will get their asses kicked in a good share of the dirty south. However, I don't plan to chip in to the ACLU defense fund for these clowns.

[Pericles]

Roger that. But, fair warning, people like the Westboro's will get their asses kicked in a good share of the dirty south. However, I don't plan to chip in to the ACLU defense fund for these clowns.

It is just "blowback" on a smaller scale.

[Napoleon's Shadow]

This is what happened when they tried to show up to a local Nashville funeral:
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110614/NEWS01/306140042/2275/RSS05

[LibForestPaul]

My give a damn must be busted because I lol'd at this.

No matter what Matt says, the Supreme Court says, or what keyboard philosophers say about a nonaggression principle, when you push people they will eventually fight back. If this was my friend/relative being buried, I'd crush skulls too.

Are you willing to have a bullet in you or your families head?

[LibForestPaul]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church
After reading this section:
Protest activities

I fully support this organization activities. They equate **** behavior as most would equate the behavior of pedophiles. I do not equate ***** at such a level, but if they do, it is their duty to protest. I certainly do not know the mind of god. Why would i judge these people?

If the SEIU can "protest" so can this group.

[pcosmar]

Are you willing to have a bullet in you or your families head?

What is that for??
Is that a threat?

Do you support people coming into a community and deliberately offending the people that live there?

Do you oppose the people of a community defending friends and neighbors against an outside group that is disturbing the peace and is deliberately offensive?

Yes, they have freedom of speech.
And the people of the community have the right to make them extremely unwelcome.

[thedude]

I'm not a moral arbiter. If someone showed up at the funeral or one of my friends or family and heckled I would respond with violence. Whether that is right or not I don't know.

If these guys get popped in the face I'm not going to cry about it.

This^

I would make the decision to violate their rights and pay the consequence for doing so...

If the collins wants to stand by while somebody is protesting his loved one's funeral, then he has either never had a close loved one die or he has no heart. Take your principled stand to uphold what you think is right... I will too.

[wizardwatson]

Beating/attacking the westboro folks only adds to their sense of duty. They've been attacked, bombed, threatened with murder, kicked out of numerous places, had laws passed to prevent their return in numerous places and have been doing this for over 20 years. The more they are attacked the more their worldview is vindicated since they believe that the world is mostly full of hellbound humans who have hardened their hearts against God and his law.

And this argument that some of you are using about how they wouldn't be allowed to protest in libertarian fantasy land where no public property exists, I just disagree with that whole premise, you have to have some kind of public right of way, or else you have situations where people will be trapped in their property because someone is blocked on all sides by a-holes. The same way we need international waters, we need interstate and intrastate roads to navigate around to different properties.

My opinion.

[Pericles]

This is what happened when they tried to show up to a local Nashville funeral:
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110614/NEWS01/306140042/2275/RSS05

Like it as the proper solution.

[BamaAla]

Are you willing to have a bullet in you or your families head?

Come again?