PDA

View Full Version : Voter ID laws




Brett85
04-20-2011, 06:27 PM
I was just curious where libertarians stand on voter ID laws. The state of Kansas where I live recently passed a law that requires people to show their driver's licence when they show up to vote, and it also requires them to show their birth certificate when they first register to vote. This just seems like a common sense law that conservatives, liberals, and libertarians should all be able to support. But I'd like to know what others here think.

DamianTV
04-20-2011, 06:38 PM
I dont think the real problem is with people showing some form of id, but in the way that the votes are counted and the way the voting machines are set up. Such as, having a candidate already pre-selected on an electronic voting machine. Hanging chads not getting counted. Back doors built into the machines. and, the Electoral College where a president can become president without the popular vote (*cough* Bush) I doubt that there is anywhere nearly as much trouble coming from the voters themselves, but I do understand the need for allowing one person to vote just once. I think any form of ID should be sufficient, but I dont really have a strong opinion on the idea of showing some form of ID to vote. Others may wish to correct and enlighten me.

sailingaway
04-20-2011, 06:43 PM
DAmian, in California they did an audit not too long ago and proven fraudulent votes were greater than the difference between Sanchez and her nearest competitor. Most elections are not audited, of course. Voting unauthorized is encouraged and the people doing it often don't even know it is wrong. I wrestle with this, but having seen what has happened to California, it is bad enough having people who do have the right to vote asking for more and more entitlement programs without adding in those who don't have the right to vote. I am against a national ID, but I am for voter ID, which doesn't pervade your life as a national ID does. But maybe that makes me not libertarian, I don't know.

kah13176
04-20-2011, 06:44 PM
I'm 18, yet I don't drive. I just don't, and thus don't have a driver's license. (Biking is under-rated).

What is wrong with me simply showing a birth certificate and an SSN? The Constitution states that anyone above the age of 18 can vote. Period. Why must I register with ANOTHER government agency in order to exercise my rights as a citizen?

I'm glad shit like that hasn't come to Georgia where I am. Also, technically, the tenable libertarian position is no government at all in a voluntaryist society, where voting wouldn't be necessary.

sailingaway
04-20-2011, 06:47 PM
I'm 18, yet I don't drive. I just don't, and thus don't have a driver's license. (Biking is under-rated).

What is wrong with me simply showing a birth certificate and an SSN? The Constitution states that anyone above the age of 18 can vote. Period. Why must I register with ANOTHER government agency in order to exercise my rights as a citizen?

I'm glad shit like that hasn't come to Georgia where I am.

I'm not saying what the id has to be, just that I have come to the conclusion there should be id and that by the time you know you need it, it will be hard to vote it in....

kah13176
04-20-2011, 06:49 PM
I'm not saying what the id has to be, just that I have come to the conclusion there should be id and that by the time you know you need it, it will be hard to vote it in....

Oh ok, I agree, if we must have voting...

I just get really annoyed whenever I see proposals based purely on Driver's licenses because I really encounter a lot of shit for not having one.

Flying becomes a hassle, it's harder to take SAT's and a plethora of other exams for college, voter registration, etc.

Brett85
04-20-2011, 08:40 PM
I'm 18, yet I don't drive. I just don't, and thus don't have a driver's license. (Biking is under-rated).

What is wrong with me simply showing a birth certificate and an SSN? The Constitution states that anyone above the age of 18 can vote. Period. Why must I register with ANOTHER government agency in order to exercise my rights as a citizen?

I'm glad shit like that hasn't come to Georgia where I am. Also, technically, the tenable libertarian position is no government at all in a voluntaryist society, where voting wouldn't be necessary.

I think any form of ID would work to prove that you're a US citizen. It wouldn't have to be a driver's license.

Brett85
04-20-2011, 08:42 PM
DAmian, in California they did an audit not too long ago and proven fraudulent votes were greater than the difference between Sanchez and her nearest competitor. Most elections are not audited, of course. Voting unauthorized is encouraged and the people doing it often don't even know it is wrong. I wrestle with this, but having seen what has happened to California, it is bad enough having people who do have the right to vote asking for more and more entitlement programs without adding in those who don't have the right to vote. I am against a national ID, but I am for voter ID, which doesn't pervade your life as a national ID does. But maybe that makes me not libertarian, I don't know.

Yeah, I don't know of anybody who's proposing that the federal government should force people to carry an ID to vote. But I certainly think the states should make sure that only U.S. citizens are actually allowed to vote. I don't call myself a libertarian, but I would think that even libertarians could support voter ID laws at the state level.

Angel
04-20-2011, 09:54 PM
I subscribe to the traditional American ideal of "No Taxation Without Representation". Therefore, if a state or the federal government is taxing or taking money from me, I get my vote. As we are unjustly forced to provide and keep tax documentation to prove that we have paid our taxes or otherwise face penalties, I believe that it is equally unjust to force a person to provide documentation to vote or otherwise be penalized with the disenfranchisement from your representative government. The burden of proof is on the state to show evidence that they are not a citizen and that they do not have the right to be represented.

ivflight
04-21-2011, 01:12 AM
Also, technically, the tenable libertarian position is no government at all in a voluntaryist society, where voting wouldn't be necessary.

Not true, and you would still have voting even in voluntary organizations.