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View Full Version : ATF Wants to Re-define a "Shotgun" to Make Them Illegal | Gun Control




FrankRep
04-19-2011, 01:00 PM
http://www.thenewamerican.com/images/stories2011/09aApril/minutemanstatue-t.001.jpg



The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) has launched a campaign to change the definition of “shotgun” and a recently released study by the Bureau will ultimately make shotguns illegal.


Second Amendment Rights Once Again at Risk (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/7178-second-amendment-rights-once-again-at-risk)


Raven Clabough | The New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/)
19 April 2011

Seraphim
04-19-2011, 02:31 PM
Yeah...Cuz they are the most mobile, DROP YOU DEAD weapon that will help families protect themselves from Federal Agents. And we can't have that happen....Right...?

GuerrillaXXI
04-19-2011, 03:44 PM
The ATF is a domestic enemy of the Constitution. It's just that simple.

If the Second Amendment had anything to do with sports or games (like hunting or target shooting), then it would certainly have been written much more broadly in order to protect the right to play games that don't require guns (like board, card, and dice games). What's so special about shooting sports as opposed to other sports?

Neither was the Second Amendment intended to guarantee the right to bear arms of any military force under government control. That doesn't pass the laugh test. Obviously military forces are armed.

Since the above arguments are incontrovertible, there's nothing more to argue about. There's only the question of who will have the balls to flout unconstitutional gun laws and, if caught, do whatever it takes to avoid arrest and defend his rights.


Yeah...Cuz they are the most mobile, DROP YOU DEAD weapon that will help families protect themselves from Federal Agents. And we can't have that happen....Right...?They're the best weapons for hitting small, quickly-moving targets. That happens to make them a nearly perfect weapon for close quarter fighting, especially against someone who's heavily-armored (provided your enemy doesn't have a ballistic shield over his face). In order guarantee that an enemy drops immediately after you shoot him, it's preferable to hit him right in the center of his face (when he's facing you) -- in the so-called "FBI T" formed by the eyes and nose. Releasing multiple projectiles with a single recoil impulse makes it easier to hit that "T," especially if the shotgun is in the hands of someone who has practiced a lot. Aiming is still necessary of course, but the shotgun is more forgiving than any other weapon. There have even been studies showing this, such as the one cited here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_shotgun#Effectiveness

(I realize that you probably are well aware of all this already, but I'm posting this for the benefit of lurkers, newbies to shooting, etc.)

Matt Collins
04-19-2011, 04:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJPMk4nyrfM

IBleedNavyAndOrange
04-19-2011, 04:52 PM
"Though the ATF contends that its determinations will have no impact on “true sporting shotguns,” it admits that they will “certainly prevent the importation of certain shotguns.”

In other words buy a Saiga while you can.

osan
04-19-2011, 08:46 PM
The ATF is a domestic enemy of the Constitution. It's just that simple.

Agreed. The question this raises is why is there not a major campaign to have ATF and its functions dissolved in perpetuity.

chudrockz
04-19-2011, 08:51 PM
"Though the ATF contends that its determinations will have no impact on “true sporting shotguns,” it admits that they will “certainly prevent the importation of certain shotguns.”

In other words buy a Saiga while you can.

This. I've been watching these (and lusting after one) for quite awhile. Used to be you could get a Saiga 12 gauge all day for $500. Now they're $1,000 and likely it would seem to sell out everywhere.

Sigh.

AFPVet
04-19-2011, 09:38 PM
I still have my old Remington 870 given to me for my 16th birthday... such a versatile, classic piece of American craftsmanship! I really have to hang on with the 3" magnum shells!

eduardo89
04-19-2011, 09:46 PM
Aren't shotguns the most widespread firearm in the states?

puppetmaster
04-20-2011, 12:15 AM
Benelli m4......love it, they wanna ban my shotgun....

LOL
read my sig

chudrockz
04-20-2011, 05:21 AM
Aren't shotguns the most widespread firearm in the states?

I'm pretty sure they are. Here in southern Minnesota (where you can't hunt with rifles), it seems EVERYONE owns at least several of them. I, on the other hand, only own one (shotgun). :)

eduardo89
04-20-2011, 05:25 AM
I'm pretty sure they are. Here in southern Minnesota (where you can't hunt with rifles), it seems EVERYONE owns at least several of them. I, on the other hand, only own one (shotgun). :)

Only one?! You must be the laughing stock of the town! :p

Texan4Life
04-20-2011, 05:36 AM
"Though the ATF contends that its determinations will have no impact on “true sporting shotguns,” it admits that they will “certainly prevent the importation of certain shotguns.”

In other words buy a Saiga while you can.

bingo. they have been after the saiga 12 for awhile. especially now with AK style furniture, optics, and high cap mags. I have no doubt they will push that image to try and pass it. With the "what hunter needs that" BS.

pcosmar
04-20-2011, 09:07 AM
Government stifling innovation again.
They did it to Calico a few years back. (though I have heard they are coming back now)
I have been following development of a shotgun from Kel Tec.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W638QRLqUyc

There is very limited innovation in the industry but Kel Tec is leading some. I would like to see their success.

chudrockz
04-20-2011, 10:17 AM
Only one?! You must be the laughing stock of the town! :p

That's what I keep trying to tell my wife to convince her to loosen the pursestrings so I can aquire another one!

Actually there's a Remington 870 magnum with a 26" field barrel and an 18" home defense barrel for sale locally (privately) for $325 and I'm considering asking her again....

:)