I got 25k. What should I do?

[TXcarlosTX]

I was going to open an account with EuroPac and possible and buy some funds. I'm in it for the long haul and can be aggressive.

What do you guys think?

[muzzled dogg]

I wish I had your problems man

[brandon]

coke and strippers

[brandon]

If you want some serious ideas you gotta give more info. Net worth, age, goals, income, risk tolerance, etc all factor in to personal finance decisions.

If you don't have any retirement accounts yet open an IRA with fidelity or vanguard or one or the larger companies. I would put maybe 15k in one of their non-managed index funds. Then use the other 10k to open a brokerage account. Buy stock in maybe 5 or 6 companies and plan to hold them for at least a couple years. I'm still new to this though so I'm sure someone else will give you better advice.

[cubical]

I would say EuroPac is expensive, but is probably one of the best brokers out there. I don't have enough money, that I need it managed. I think you should invest it yourself. Make sure you are funding your IRA each year. Look at making a portfolio of ETFs and maybe a few select stocks.

[Original_Intent]

Send it to me.

[Arklatex]

Fertile land next to clean water source. Choice numero uno. Then fishing tackle silver spoons gold and silver chains perhaps a gemstone or two. Some nice trees to talk with. :cool:

[Merk]

Non-irradiated (packed before 3.11.11) canned/freeze dried/frozen food will become very valuable (if not as an investment then for your own health) as Fukushima Daiichi continues to spew cesium-137, strontium-90 etc. for months, if not years to come.

Once people figure out that there is a difference between a dose of radiation from fleeting gamma rays generated during an xray and an endless dose of radiation from cesium-137 ingested via milk/veggies/meat that integrates with your soft tissue and irradiates one until the end of life, "clean" food will become very valuable.

[cameronb]

Yeah, it really depends on what your other circumstances are. Are you prepared for hyperinflation / a larger economic collapse and this is just additional money to "play" with? If so, then some of the investment suggestions are decent, I would say that with $25k and a willingness to be aggressive you may be able to buy a steeply discounted note (on RE), but you kind of half to know what you are doing there to really evaluate risk. Otherwise I'd say do a combination of silver and an investment fund that has a reasonably high concentration in commodities.
If you don't have any preparation for the possibility of a collapse, I'd say split the money between investing and either getting some dirt cheap land, or improving the preparedness level of the place you've already got. Growing some of your own food or producing your own energy is a phenomenal investment if we hit hyperinflation.

[pahs1994]

donate $2,300 to ron paul

[nobody's_hero]

Invest in AIG (joking).

[ninepointfive]

buy an rv

[Jordan]

So much great information in this thread.

Go to a fee-only financial advisor and buy a few hours from them. Tell them you're interested in ETFs and tax-advantaged accounts, and would prefer to speak with their CPA, if possible.

The best way to boost returns is to spend less chasing them. The fee-only CFP/CPA c-c-c-combo will net you tons of tax planning advice and a portfolio that will be as tax-advantaged/low-fee as humanly possible for less than a few hundred bucks.

[TheNcredibleEgg]

Don't go with Europac.

No offense to Peter Schiff - but it's just way too expensive to have a broker.

But I think you'd do better by yourself. Just open up an online account. Do your research at various financial sites. Perhaps listen to Marc Faber/Jim Rogers/Peter Schiff types for advice. But be in control yourself. It will force you do to better - since you will be very motivated.

[jclay2]

1. Set up a $ 1000 emergency fund (or greater).
2. Pay off any debts other than house.
3. Save 3-6 months of expenses.
4. Invest a high percentage of income into long term investments (15-25 % minimum).
5. Pay off home Early
6. Don't forget to give to Charity/Church

[libertybrewcity]

The world is not going to end, so no need to buy canned foods and shack in the middle of no where. Just invest wisely, and diversify. If you are older you might want to buy more conservative companies, but you could always be a little more aggressive with junior miners or whatever.

[Maximus]

Buy Liberty Defined today

[Dave Aiello]

25k in silver

[nayjevin]

What I'd do:

- eliminate debt
- purchase an already profitable business (careful they aren't cooking the books in a way you wouldn't)
- buy 75% silver 25% other PM's with the rest

[LibertyIn08]

25k in silver

Silver is a hedge, not an investment.


So much great information in this thread.

Go to a fee-only financial advisor and buy a few hours from them. Tell them you're interested in ETFs and tax-advantaged accounts, and would prefer to speak with their CPA, if possible.

The best way to boost returns is to spend less chasing them. The fee-only CFP/CPA c-c-c-combo will net you tons of tax planning advice and a portfolio that will be as tax-advantaged/low-fee as humanly possible for less than a few hundred bucks.

This.

[The Binghamton Patriot]

Silver is a hedge, not an investment.



This.

I wouldn't go so far as to say silver is a hedge, its not a hedge in inflationary times, but rather against gov't default (just my honest opinion, 3+ Years in equity research and an MBA) If I were you I would ( In order)

1) Pay off all debts (credit cards, car loans, student loan interest (which you can claim as an itemized deduction on your tax returns))
2) Take about 2-3 months worth of expenses and put that in a money market/savings account where it can gain some interest (I would say put it in gold to further protect it, I just don't know how old you are and what your expenses are like)
3) Allocate as follows on your own online account NO BROKERS- 25% gold, 25% silver, 35% small-mid cap growth (focus on industrials and energy and utilities, and about 15% large cap value (dividend payers, Home Depot, Walmart, Exxon-Mobil types)
4) take the last hundred dollars and buy yourself some things you've wanted, maybe some new clothes or a tv or something. Hell I'd prolly wanna go get fucked up with my friends. You should try and enjoy it a little bit while you have it. Hope you make the right decision.

[TXcarlosTX]

uhh.... can you still buy some of euro pacs emerging market funds if you don't use him as a broker?

[libertybrewcity]

uhh.... can you still buy some of euro pacs emerging market funds if you don't use him as a broker?

you would need to go through his brokerage. maybe things have changed though.

[BuddyRey]

My own (amateur) opinion, not to be taken as gospel: Buy a foreclosed home in a reasonably well-employed part of the country and rent it out. I know cheap houses are everywhere in Detroit, Cleveland, and other Rust Belt cities, but the high taxes and other economic factors in the area would make buying one a very bad idea. Instead, think about less populous but still quite robust cities with stable economies. Lincoln, Nebraska; Bismarck, North Dakota, etc. would be great prospects for investors.

[Seraphim]

By what logic? Is silver not exposed to both solidified and emerging industrial applications?


Silver is a hedge, not an investment.


This.

[ivflight]

My own (amateur) opinion, not to be taken as gospel: Buy a foreclosed home in a reasonably well-employed part of the country and rent it out. I know cheap houses are everywhere in Detroit, Cleveland, and other Rust Belt cities, but the high taxes and other economic factors in the area would make buying one a very bad idea. Instead, think about less populous but still quite robust cities with stable economies. Lincoln, Nebraska; Bismarck, North Dakota, etc. would be great prospects for investors.

Are you serious? I don't think he's looking for a part-time job.

[TXcarlosTX]

I recommended europac to my biz partner couple years ago and she made all her money back she lost in the downturn. she lets me see her monthly statement and she makes $$$$. so i think ill just buy the same stuff she has. thanks for the help.

plus i live in san antonio, you dont need alot of money for coke and hookers.

[Godisnowhere]

A good spec stock is a silver one Silvermex and the world's leading silver analyst recommends it. But do not put all in this maybe 2 or 3K. The rest buy silver as quick as you can from Apmex. Silver Eagles are my favorite, easy to sell when needed. I would purchase silver in an IRA if you need tax break. Goldstar trust is my favorite. Put 6K in and then purchase the silver from Apmex in a precious metals IRA. If you are married you and your wife can do an IRA each. Good tax break and when the price of silver is 200 an oz you will be happy.

[psi2941]

1. pay off all variable interest rate debt
then...
30% Silver
10% RMB
10% Assie dollar
20% Food/Ag stocks with low debt ratio
20% real food supply and guns (guns will be a bad investment but needed)
10% USD Cash

as for guns, i recommend a Sig 516 with an aimpoint Comp m2

[Seraphim]

Ding ding ding


1. Pay off all variable interest rate debt
then...30% silver
10% rmb
10% assie dollar
20% food/ag stocks with low debt ratio
20% real food supply and guns (guns will be a bad investment but needed)
10% usd cash

[dejavu22]

3kish computer
this video card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150500&cm_re=eyefinity_6-_-14-150-500-_-Product
6 of these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889102558

Which will leave u about 2500 for accessories and setup.

... wait wrong forum... and dream

Imo metals have had a good run and agri stocks are going to get a hard bump soon as soon as people start to become more worried about where their next meal is coming from... id look into that.

[BuddyRey]

Are you serious? I don't think he's looking for a part-time job.

You'd be surprised how many foreclosed homes under 30K are actually in pretty good repair. It sounds crazy, but that's the kind of market we're in now. Sadly, this probably won't last much longer.

[cooker263]

If you have the time, you trust yourself, and you know how to truly diversify - I'd definitely consider going at it on your own. You can learn a lot, you'll skip out on some of the management fees, and you generally have some good advice here on the board. There's a significant amount of free information all over the internet - plus it's kinda fun! I'm in a very similar situation - new job, have some money to invest, etc. I do have a decent amount of student loans at a fixed rate.

I'd shy away from everyone telling you to pay off all your debt - that's way too broad of a statement. That *MIGHT* be a good idea, but what's your interest rate? Is it fixed/variable? Do you anticipate X amount of inflation? If you're risk-seeking, as it seems, you're generally looking for a higher rate of return. I do tax work for private equity firms - you see lots of written off investments. But they'll find a winner maybe one in five times to make up for all of their losses by a substantial amount. Not touting that there's always success, but if that's your investment strategy you might fail a bit more than the average risk-averse investor. Psychologically, that sounds good to some people until they experience it - then they get cold feet.

Euro Pac just called me the other day and I entertained the idea of investing with them but I like the idea of going at it on my own. Plus I'm most likely going to buy some good farmland back home so it'd be pretty expensive to go with a broker unless I had more to invest from the outset. Good luck!

Do we have an investing section?? I think it might be a good idea to set up a section for it. A lot of us are young, looking to invest here or there, just starting out with our jobs - it'd be helpful to have a central place to throw around ideas or ask questions. I know we have the economics section but I never really think about talking about much other than PMs or the Fed while in there.

[cubical]

If you want an international bond fund that pays out in foreign currency check out ELD.

[eduardo89]

coke and strippers

charlie sheen weekend



to the OP: buy some gold/silver ETF's...maybe something that follows oil? mining stocks or commodity etf's seems good too.

[Jordan]

My own (amateur) opinion, not to be taken as gospel: Buy a foreclosed home in a reasonably well-employed part of the country and rent it out. I know cheap houses are everywhere in Detroit, Cleveland, and other Rust Belt cities, but the high taxes and other economic factors in the area would make buying one a very bad idea. Instead, think about less populous but still quite robust cities with stable economies. Lincoln, Nebraska; Bismarck, North Dakota, etc. would be great prospects for investors.

This is actually a pretty good idea. In the Midwest, condos are going for $25-$35k in very good condition. Even with fees, that kind of property cash flows from the get-go, and with plenty of margin for error. I've thought about purchasing one and slowly adding to my stake until I own the whole building outright. :P

[Lord Xar]

You'd be surprised how many foreclosed homes under 30K are actually in pretty good repair. It sounds crazy, but that's the kind of market we're in now. Sadly, this probably won't last much longer.
Where are you seeing this?

[TXcarlosTX]

I dont have any debt. Plus I think I can only buy emerging market funds and some metals stuff from them. Europac doesn't manage accounts under 50k.

[extrmmxer]

My own (amateur) opinion, not to be taken as gospel: Buy a foreclosed home in a reasonably well-employed part of the country and rent it out. I know cheap houses are everywhere in Detroit, Cleveland, and other Rust Belt cities, but the high taxes and other economic factors in the area would make buying one a very bad idea. Instead, think about less populous but still quite robust cities with stable economies. Lincoln, Nebraska; Bismarck, North Dakota, etc. would be great prospects for investors.

Agree here. Also, check out the San Tan Valley area in AZ for houses. The cash flow there is unbelievable.

[xd9fan]

10k physical gold
5k physical silver
9k prpfx
1k get a cool gun with ammo (gotta have fun sometime:cool:)
done

[LibertyIn08]

By what logic? Is silver not exposed to both solidified and emerging industrial applications?

And purchasing physical silver is not the only way to play those latter factors.

The point was to discourage him from taking the advice common on this forum - that it is wise to put a large majority of one's savings into precious metals. There are growth and value opportunities elsewhere that will also serve to lower the risk of one's portfolio.

(On a side note, people on this forum often cite how a ounce of gold buys the same amount that it did fifty years ago. If that isn't proof that gold is a wealth preservation measure, and not a typical growth/value investment, I'm not sure what is. Luckily, as you note, silver has other upside factors.)

[Seraphim]

I never said it was.


And purchasing physical silver is not the only way to play those latter factors.
The point was to discourage him from taking the advice common on this forum - that it is wise to put a large majority of one's savings into precious metals. There are growth and value opportunities elsewhere that will also serve to lower the risk of one's portfolio.

(On a side note, people on this forum often cite how a ounce of gold buys the same amount that it did fifty years ago. If that isn't proof that gold is a wealth preservation measure, and not a typical growth/value investment, I'm not sure what is. Luckily, as you note, silver has other upside factors.)

[LibertyIn08]

I never said it was.

Nobody said you did - but if you want to play silver as a long-term investment strategy, rather than a currency/inflationary hedge, those other ways are likely preferable to the metal itself.

[TXcarlosTX]

Ok, so I just got called that Europac only now gets 75k income and 200k network clients only.

So, it looks like I will be trying to do something myself. I asked the guy from Europac if I could buy there mutual funds. They said yes from like etrade or others.

So any ideas now? Which company works best for personal investing?

[Zippyjuan]

When looking at a fund, consider the expenses. First, you want a "no load" fund. A load is a fee you pay to simply get in- usually a percent of the money you put in. If it has a five percent load, you need the fund to go up by five percent before you break even. Some may have redemption fees- these come when you sell you shares in the fund. A load on the back end. If you can find the info, also look at the turnover rate. This reflects how often the fund buys and sells shares. A 100% turnover rate means that the fund basically buys and sells every share within the fund during a year. More trading in the fund does a couple of things- gives the fund manager more money and you less. More trading in the fund can also mean more capital gains. You pay taxes on capital gains within a mutual fund every year- even if you kept all you shares. All of these costs reduce your return. Check also their expense ratio. This kind of includes the trading costs of the fund I mentioned. You want a fund with a low expense ration. I have used Vanguard funds because they are a low cost family of funds with no loads and low expense ratios. Fidelity has some low cost funds too.

[teacherone]

honestly--- PM Jordan.

everything he touches turns to cash.

[Blueskies]

Put it in a margin account. Leverage up as much as possible.

Put it all in gold/silver miners. Watch the money pile up.

[Zippyjuan]

Leverage can magnify losses as well as gains.

[Blueskies]

Really? I totally didn't know that!

This is a winning trade. Our ideology is right, and this an opportunity to use it to make money.

[Seraphim]

Trading futures and using leverage is a horrible idea unless you REALLY know what you're doing.

Small price movements can yield huge gains if the prices are met by the contract date. Conversely, a small move in price against what your contract bet (put or call) can totally wipe out your leveraged down payment VERY quickly.

15K can evaporate before you even blink.


Really? I totally didn't know that!

This is a winning trade. Our ideology is right, and this an opportunity to use it to make money.

[Blueskies]

Where did I say buy futures contracts? I said buy stock in miners. Its a winning trade. This is free potato chips.

[Zippyjuan]

There is no free lunch. Higher returns come with higher risks. If you are leveraged, losses get multiplied too. Then you may have to either come up with more money or lose everything you already put in if you face a margin call.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/leveraged-etfs-juice-returns-and-risk-2010-06-11

Yet what many investors don't understand, and why Morningstar's Justice and other detractors are wary of these products, is that the objective of most leveraged ETFs is to double or triple the performance of a given index on a single day, not over time.

Anything longer than one day, and the effects of compounding and daily resets can produce results that are out of sync with the underlying index. That's particularly true during periods of market volatility.

"You have to understand the dramatic impact that daily compounding can have on returns over a long period of time, and understand that if volatility is high, both the leveraged bull fund and the leveraged bear fund can deliver substantially negative returns," Justice said.

To understand the math, consider a hypothetical index that rises 10% one day and falls 10% the next. If you earned exactly the index return in an unleveraged fund, a $100 investment would grow to $110 and then drop to $99, for a cumulative $1 loss. Now take a 2x leveraged fund: A 20% advance would bring you to $120; after a 20% drop, you would be left with $96. Over two days you have lost $4 instead of $1.

Over months and years you can lose money in leveraged ETFs, even with a correct bet on the market's overall direction.

Several dozen leveraged bull and bear ETFs from ProShare Advisors LLC, the only such funds with three-year records, all show negative returns over that time, said Morningstar.

Consider how ProShares UltraShort Russell2000 /quotes/comstock/13*!twm/quotes/nls/twm TWM +0.61% , a double-leveraged bear ETF, and ProShares Ultra Russell2000 /quotes/comstock/13*!uwm/quotes/nls/uwm UWM -0.36% , the leveraged bull ETF that is its mirror image, have done against an unleveraged fund that tracks the same benchmark Russell 2000 Index.

The unleveraged iShares Russell 2000 Index /quotes/comstock/13*!iwm/quotes/nls/iwm IWM -0.20% lost 6.5% annualized over the three years through May. But the leveraged bull fund fell much harder, losing 26%. Given the index's decline, an investor might have expected the leveraged bear fund to gain; instead it tumbled 22%.

Leveraged funds' returns can look disjointed even in shorter periods. Year-to-date through May, the Russell 2000 index rose 6%. The twice-leveraged Russell 2000 bull fund was up not 12%, as might be expected, but 10%. Its bearish twin was down not 12%, or twice the inverse performance, but 19%.

[zakkubin]

Great thread and good advise.

I wouldn't dismiss the real estate options so easy.

*Assuming you have paid off high interest loans*

-Find a realtor in your area that deals with foreclosures and section 8/HUD housing auctions.

-Do some of the work yourself- Check out sales by owners on craigslist, classifieds, and just old fashion driving around. You might even find a property abandoned that the owner would be willing to sell.

-Check out government auctions of homes at http://www.hudhomestore.com/HUDHome/Index.aspx?sLanguage=English

You can also use this site to find a HUD broker:
http://www.hudhomestore.com/hud/BrokerSearch.aspx?sLanguage=English

In my state/experience these are blind bids where you put a offer in without knowing anyone else's offers. You could find out you would have won the house if you bid $500 dollars more or that you could have won with a $10,000 dollar lower bid.


Something I did was simply ask someone to owner finance a house. You might find a duplex for sale that has been making money for years but the owners simply want to move or retire. You'll probably have to give them price for terms but as long as your rent income is greater than the mortgage IMO you're ok.

You won't be rich over night with this option, but if you do it right one day ( much sooner than a career ) you'll realize you technically don't have to work.
Just ask yourself how much you need to live then divide that by the # of units you'll need to achieve this.

[nayjevin]

You might find a duplex for sale that has been making money for years but the owners simply want to move or retire. You'll probably have to give them price for terms but as long as your rent income is greater than the mortgage IMO you're ok.

Thanks for the links. What is a good market for rentals, and what's the risk of incurring 30yr debt right now with the direction the economy is going?

[Travlyr]

honestly--- PM Jordan.

everything he touches turns to cash.

He does not advocate buying physical silver. Physical silver has gone from $4.50 FRNs to $45.00+ FRNs pretty fast... and it has doubled this year alone. I would be cautious when using outdated investment strategies.

[Jordan]

He does not advocate buying physical silver. Physical silver has gone from $4.50 FRNs to $45.00+ FRNs pretty fast... and it has doubled this year alone. I would be cautious when using outdated investment strategies.

Yep, I say never buy physical.

Physical silver has large bid/ask spreads, does not allow for creating cash flow directly, and has huge tax implications. Options afford smaller bid/ask spreads, cash flow if you buy ETFs and write them, and provide better tax rules. Oh, and don't forget the ability to multiply returns, often for a spread less than you can find on physical metals. Downside risk is limited, as well.

If only people who feared a dollar crisis and bought pounds of silver would have instead piled into stock options. They'd have hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash which is still redeemable for physical metals at any coin shop. Oh well. That's the cost for fearing leverage and the unforeseeable future.

[eOs]

go into business with me developing revolutionary technology that will completely destroy all iphones androids

[cubical]

Yep, I say never buy physical.

Physical silver has large bid/ask spreads, does not allow for creating cash flow directly, and has huge tax implications. Options afford smaller bid/ask spreads, cash flow if you buy ETFs and write them, and provide better tax rules. Oh, and don't forget the ability to multiply returns, often for a spread less than you can find on physical metals. Downside risk is limited, as well.

If only people who feared a dollar crisis and bought pounds of silver would have instead piled into stock options. They'd have hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash which is still redeemable for physical metals at any coin shop. Oh well. That's the cost for fearing leverage and the unforeseeable future.

I could sell my physical silver tomorrow for over $50 and pay 0 income tax.

Of course knowing the future people could have bought options and make many times their money, but they could have also lost it all. More reward, but more risk. buying physical means you have something in your hand.

[Zippyjuan]

I could sell my physical silver tomorrow for over $50 and pay 0 income tax.

Of course knowing the future people could have bought options and make many times their money, but they could have also lost it all. More reward, but more risk. buying physical means you have something in your hand.

It is true that you will not pay income taxes on selling silver, but if the sale is recorded, you will be responsible for taxes on those gains.
http://beginnersinvest.about.com/b/2010/01/31/capital-gains-tax-guide-for-investors.htm

A perfect example of the importance of understanding capital gains taxes and capital gains tax rates is how the IRS treats gold and silver. Most investors assume that their gold and silver holdings will be treated as investments under the capital gains tax rules. Unfortunately, they would be incorrect. Precious metals are treated as collectibles for capital gains tax purposes, meaning you will get hammered for up to 28% of your profits, not the 0% to 15% capital gains tax rate in effect for stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. Precious metals don't have any of the sort of benefits such as the real estate capital gains tax deductions that are sometimes available (e.g., the $250,000 to $500,000 allowance for your primary residence).



That is a higher rate than on stocks or for most people, their income.

Let's say you bought $100 worth of silver. The seller has a ten percent markup on the sale so it cost you $110 out of pocket (not sure if that also gets hit by sales tax- may depend on where you live but we will ignore that for now- otherwise that will reduce your return as well). Now let's suppose silver goes up by 50% and you sell your silver at $150 so you made $40- or did you? The dealer you resell too also takes his ten percent so you get actually $15 less or $25. Now you will face up to 28% tax on that amount for the gains on a collectable tax- further reducing your gains by another $7 in the end you made $18. On paper, your investment went up by 50%- but you only got $18% or less than half of that.

[cubical]

It is true that you will not pay income taxes on selling silver, but if the sale is recorded, you will be responsible for taxes on those gains.
http://beginnersinvest.about.com/b/2010/01/31/capital-gains-tax-guide-for-investors.htm


That is a higher rate than on stocks or for most people, their income.

Yes, I know. But the government doesn't know that I bought. And if they did, they still won't know that I sold.

[Zippyjuan]

Which is why I said "if the sale was recorded". Depending on where you bought and sold, the name of the buyer and the amount may or may not be recorded. I think the limit in some places is $250 which must be recorded but I could be wrong on that. Others to cover themselves may record all sales.

Update- I see the requirements for reporting metal sales are very limited. http://about.ag/reporting.htm

Even if you do face a ten percent transaction cost, your investment needs to go up by 20% to break even. $50 silver has to go to $70 silver.

[cubical]

Which is why I said "if the sale was recorded". Depending on where you bought and sold, the name of the buyer and the amount may or may not be recorded. I think the limit in some places is $250 which must be recorded but I could be wrong on that. Others to cover themselves may record all sales.

Update- I see the requirements for reporting metal sales are very limited. http://about.ag/reporting.htm

Even if you do face a ten percent transaction cost, your investment needs to go up by 20% to break even. $50 silver has to go to $70 silver.

10% transactions costs? Who would pay that?

[Zippyjuan]

Just an example. To assess an investment, you should try to include all costs. I haven't purchased metals in a long time- what sort of markup do they currently tend to use? Say you walked into a coin dealer? The "spread" is how the dealer makes his income.

[Seraphim]

The spread on bullion is EXTREMELY LOW. They make their money on volume.

The premium on physical over spot is NOT their spread. Their spread is 50 cents on a 1 oz silver coin. GIve or take a nickel.




Just an example. To assess an investment, you should try to include all costs. I haven't purchased metals in a long time- what sort of markup do they currently tend to use? Say you walked into a coin dealer? The "spread" is how the dealer makes his income.

[Arklatex]

5 hens would be the most bang for the buck, they cost next to nothing and they'll produce you 150 eggs a month plus great organic fertilizer for the garden.

But if you have 25K that buys too many chickens and that's where precious metals come in. :)

[cubical]

Just an example. To assess an investment, you should try to include all costs. I haven't purchased metals in a long time- what sort of markup do they currently tend to use? Say you walked into a coin dealer? The "spread" is how the dealer makes his income.

Sure, if you want to deal with "market makers" like most coin shops you will pay a $4+ spread. But I have been touting http://www.bulliondirect.com/nucleo/ for a while now, where the seller pays a 1% fee and the buy pays no fee. You can be the market maker or simple hit the bid/offer. There is also craigslist and ebay(though ebay will hit you with fees).

But when I buy silver I buy it more as something I will hold in case crap hits the fan. I use stocks for trading and "investing".

[Zippyjuan]

OK- thanks for the info.

[rp4prez]

Being a novice on all of this stuff too it's tough having a full time job, family, side job, etc. I just don't have the time to really do the investing on my own the right way. Personally I opened an IRA at Europac and rolled over my 401(k) from previous jobs to it in emerging markets and a gold fund (long term makes sense to me). I've also opened a Roth IRA that I fund every month up to the limit. Then I take a few hundred every month and buy silver eagles. My job matches my 401(k) contribution and I have that match and I do some hands off investments and some hands on but take more of a hands off approach. It works for me and the only debt I have is a house (4%) and student loans at (3.5%). I would say I'm packing away $1500 or so a month in US markets, outside the US and not in the dollar, and in physical metals.

I pay attention a few times a week but don't have time to do the research it would take to make me satisfied with the investments I make. But for me this is a good way to go. Will it get me the most money I could make? Probably not. Will it do okay. Probably so. If I max out everything and have cash left over will I play other cards and try new things. Absolutely!

I say do what you feel comfortable with but pay down debt and get an emergency fund (mine is about 8 months would love some suggestions for better interest rates than a savings account).

[Travlyr]

Yep, I say never buy physical.

Physical silver has large bid/ask spreads, does not allow for creating cash flow directly, and has huge tax implications. Options afford smaller bid/ask spreads, cash flow if you buy ETFs and write them, and provide better tax rules. Oh, and don't forget the ability to multiply returns, often for a spread less than you can find on physical metals. Downside risk is limited, as well.

If only people who feared a dollar crisis and bought pounds of silver would have instead piled into stock options. They'd have hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash which is still redeemable for physical metals at any coin shop. Oh well. That's the cost for fearing leverage and the unforeseeable future.

I do wish that I had learned these investing strategies in day's gone by, but I was a worker for wages because I was not educated in high finance. Heck, I did not even learn the origin of money until very recently. But I have worked very hard and diligently for most of my life. Now, I'll be damned if I'm going to invest any more of my time in fake stuff. I'll take my losses of -200%.

[DamianTV]

I was going to open an account with EuroPac and possible and buy some funds. I'm in it for the long haul and can be aggressive.

What do you guys think?

Leave the country, unless you are ready for the fight.

...or to get it all taken away by higher taxes and inflation...

[JCLibertarian]

coke and strippers

Well, that's obvious. I would probably keep 5k as bs money. Then I would probably put the rest into my portfolio,most of it into silver, the rest into some foreign owned stocks.