Congress is rioting...

[tangent4ronpaul]

What a surreal situation. It's the vote on the Republican Study Committee budget proposal. They were about to announce the winner and Congress rose up. Like bordering on insurrection. Then a ton of Dems started changing their votes from no's to present. Tons had already voted present. The amendment didn't pass - barely, but truth be told I think "present" actually won that vote...

-t

[Cowlesy]

Isn't the RSC Budget halfway decent?

[tangent4ronpaul]

Yes

[Brett85]

Isn't the RSC Budget halfway decent?

That plan still doesn't produce a balanced budget until 2020, but amazingly that seems like the best we can even get.

[Brett85]

What a surreal situation. It's the vote on the Republican Study Committee budget proposal. They were about to announce the winner and Congress rose up. Like bordering on insurrection. Then a ton of Dems started changing their votes from no's to present. Tons had already voted present. The amendment didn't pass - barely, but truth be told I think "present" actually won that vote...

-t

Do you know why all of these Democrats voted "present" instead of voting "no?"

[specsaregood]

Do you know why all of these Democrats voted "present" instead of voting "no?"

So it can't be said they voted against it?

[tangent4ronpaul]

What's up now it the Dem alternative budget.

[Brett85]

So it can't be said they voted against it?

But they always vote "no" on Republican budgets. Maybe they hated the budget so much that they couldn't even bring themselves to vote "no." I imagine it was some kind of protest vote on their part.

[specsaregood]

But they always vote "no" on Republican budgets. Maybe they hated the budget so much that they couldn't even bring themselves to vote "no." I imagine it was some kind of protest vote on their part.

Unless polls or strategists are saying this time they don't want to be seen voting no. That would be a good thing.

[tangent4ronpaul]

But they always vote "no" on Republican budgets. Maybe they hated the budget so much that they couldn't even bring themselves to vote "no." I imagine it was some kind of protest vote on their part.

Yeah, but all the changes in votes from no to present almost got it passed.

[anaconda]

Ron and Rand win either way. They vote "no" and every passed budget continues to add large deficits and the economy continues to worsen.

[Brett85]

Ron and Rand win either way. They vote "no" and every passed budget continues to add large deficits and the economy continues to worsen.

People don't like to hear this, but sometimes you have to be pragmatic and vote for the budget that at least has less spending. It makes Ron and Rand look like they're voting with the Democrats against spending cuts when they vote against some of these budgets.

[Brett85]

Justin Amash explains this on his Facebook page:

"Here's an explanation for the last vote: It takes more "ayes" than "noes" (not 218 "ayes") to adopt an amendment. Democrats used "present" votes to keep the "ayes" ahead of the "noes." Several Republicans switched to "no" so the amendment would fail. If the RSC Budget had been adopted, it would replace the Ryan Budget for a final vote. To return to Ryan, RSC supporters would have had to vote to replace RSC with Ryan."

[sailingaway]

Isn't the RSC Budget halfway decent?

Rand said in one interview that it was 'closer to his' than Ryan's was, which I take to mean 'yes'.

[Cowlesy]

Justin Amash (www.facebook.com/repjustinamash) explains that the Dems voted 'present' which I guess counts as an Aye to get the RSC Budget to replace the Ryan Budget for a final vote. Justin explains better than I do


Here's an explanation for the last vote: It takes more "ayes" than "noes" (not 218 "ayes") to adopt an amendment. Democrats used "present" votes to keep the "ayes" ahead of the "noes." Several Republicans switched to "no" so the amendment would fail. If the RSC Budget had been adopted, it would replace the Ryan Budget for a final vote. To return to Ryan, RSC supporters would have had to vote to replace RSC with Ryan.

[sailingaway]

too bad it failed...

[tangent4ronpaul]

119 yea to 132 no

172 voted present. Present won!

-t

[sailingaway]

119 yea to 132 no

172 voted present. Present won!

-t

If present really counts as yes, does that mean the amendment passed and there is actually something substantial on the table?

[Cowlesy]

If present really counts as yes, does that mean the amendment passed and there is actually something substantial on the table?

I guess "Present" doesn't count as an AYE, but, if the AYEs are more numerous than the NOes, then the Amendment is adopted. So by voting Present, instead of NO, you are in effect helping the AYEs by not casting a vote against them.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Justin Amash (www.facebook.com/repjustinamash) explains that the Dems voted 'present' which I guess counts as an Aye to get the RSC Budget to replace the Ryan Budget for a final vote.

Just explains better than I do

No. They were changing their votes from Nay to Present. A Nay negates a Aye, while a present does not.

say you have 10 votes:
5 nay and 5 Aye = tie
5 nay and 3 Aye and 2 present = Nay wins by 2
7 nay and 3 Aye = nay wins by 4

[specsaregood]

If present really counts as yes, does that mean the amendment passed and there is actually something substantial on the table?

nope.
Amash's explanation quoted above explains it well. It failed. It seems to me the Republicans didn't want to have Paul Ryan outshone/replaced as they have picked him to prop up.

[sailingaway]

No. They were changing their votes from Nay to Present. A Nay negates a Aye, while a present does not.



Pity.

[LibertyEagle]

Has Rand's amendment been voted on yet?

[Cowlesy]

No. They were changing their votes from Nay to Present. A Nay negates a Aye, while a present does not.

say you have 10 votes:
5 nay and 5 Aye = tie
5 nay and 3 Aye and 2 present = Nay wins by 2
7 nay and 3 Aye = nay wins by 4

Yeah sorry I added the strikethrough in that before your post appeared -- agreed above and put a strikethrough in my original post.

[UtahApocalypse]

It's getting crazy in there.....

[reduen]

They can hardly carry on business for all the disruptions happening right now...!

[UtahApocalypse]

They can hardly carry on business for all the disruptions happening right now...!

I get the feeling the gallery will be cleared shortly..... It makes me sad that it people doing this when the Democrats have their time. This does nothing to help the Republican cause, and only shows us as wild and selfish.

[reduen]

I just wish I could understand what those that are protesting are saying......

[tangent4ronpaul]

I just wish I could understand what those that are protesting are saying......

Just take a vinyl record of any SEIU union protest, scratch deeply and play. You are not missing anything.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Republican budget plan:

3.5 Trillion in spending
2.5 Trillion in revenues

WWW HOOO! - another Trillion in the hole! Way to go, Congress!

:rolleyes:

And yeah, it's going to pass. Totally bipartisan vote w/ 3 Repub nay's. I wonder who the other 2 are?

[VBRonPaulFan]

looked like 4 actually voted nay?

[tangent4ronpaul]

looked like 4 actually voted nay?

4? - must have been a last min vote while I was typing.

[VBRonPaulFan]

yeah, pretty sure 4 voted nay at the end when the timer hit 0

[daviddee]

...

[sailingaway]

You forgot one part. It should have read:

They vote "no" and every passed budget continues to add large deficits and the economy continues to worsen... After Dr Paul loads it with spending for his district.

So although Dr Paul votes against them, he knows they will pass, and fills them with kickbacks to his district.

Don't hate the player... Hate the game.

People who push no earmarks are working wittingly or not for those who want a stronger executive at the expense of an EVEN LESS potent congress. Those who believe in representative republics would be against that, I think.

Ron is going the right way. It is sad so many don't understand WHY the Constitution puts the power of the purse in the legislature -- as it has been since a hard fought victory that lead to the Magna Carta. That people want to throw that away, with either an unConstitutional line item veto or by 'making it un-pc' for congress to designate where money goes without the executive, is really depressing.

Even Frum, when asked about earmarks dismissed the issue saying 'that is really about executive power'..... and he should know.

I think Rand is wrong on that point, and Ron is right. I think Rand just sees it as a curb on easy spending, but as long as you don't sell your vote that way (Cornhusker kickback) which is a separate matter (since Ron never votes for the bill so isn't selling his vote) I think Rand is wrong. I don't mind it going through committees and being ranked, but that isn't really the 'earmark' issue and shouldn't be discussed as such.

[specsaregood]

I think Rand is wrong on that point, and Ron is right.

My opinion on that subject is that Ron is right, and Rand should only add earmarks if they are requested by his state's legislature and signed by the governor.

[teacherone]

House passes Ryan's 2012 budget plan; conservatives want more cuts
By Pete Kasperowicz - 04/15/11 02:26 PM ET
The House on Friday approved a fiscal year 2012 budget resolution from Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) that seeks to drastically limit government spending next year and in years to follow.

But the vote on the measure — which imposes $5.8 trillion in spending cuts over the next decade — came after a clear sign that at least half of the Republican caucus supports even tougher spending cuts.

The final tally was 235-193, with four Republicans supporting it and every Democrat opposing it.
It will now be considered by the Senate, where it is considered dead on arrival.

Earlier in the day, 124 Republicans had cast a vote in favor of an alternative budget from members of the Republican Study Committee (RSC) — more than the number of Republicans in opposition.

Republicans likely saw the RSC bill as a free vote that let them give a nod to deeper cuts, while Democratic opposition would ensure defeat of the bill.

But most Democrats voted "present," which forced Republican leaders to adjust their votes at the last second in order to ensure the defeat of the RSC budget. Even after adjusting to the Democratic procedural move, 119 Republicans voted for the RSC budget, and 120 Republicans voted against it, and it failed in a 119-136 vote.
http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/156379-house-clears-ryans-2012-budget-plan-conservatives-want-more-cuts

[anaconda]

People don't like to hear this, but sometimes you have to be pragmatic and vote for the budget that at least has less spending. It makes Ron and Rand look like they're voting with the Democrats against spending cuts when they vote against some of these budgets.

Not any more than it makes Democrats look like they are voting "no" because the cuts are not large enough. I think people realize the Republican Congress and Senate is divided by Tea Party types and main stream types. From my point of view, and at this point, I would actually even consider that some blue dog Democrats might be voting "no" because the cuts weren't large enough. In other words, this thing is so volatile that I would feel compelled to check on a case by case basis before I assumed that the vote was on party line or leadership mantra.

[anaconda]

You forgot one part. It should have read:

They vote "no" and every passed budget continues to add large deficits and the economy continues to worsen... After Dr Paul loads it with spending for his district.

So although Dr Paul votes against them, he knows they will pass, and fills them with kickbacks to his district.

Don't hate the player... Hate the game.

Ron has always been open about the fact that, as a second choice to lowering taxes, he'll take back as much as humanly possible from the federal government.

[anaconda]

It's getting crazy in there.....

Are you folks watching C-Span or something? Where are you getting this from?

[Kregisen]

You forgot one part. It should have read:

They vote "no" and every passed budget continues to add large deficits and the economy continues to worsen... After Dr Paul loads it with spending for his district.

So although Dr Paul votes against them, he knows they will pass, and fills them with kickbacks to his district.

Don't hate the player... Hate the game.

Yes but earmarks don't increase spending, they simply appropriate where some of the bill's spending goes.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Are you folks watching C-Span or something? Where are you getting this from?

Yes, watching C-SPAN