Trump - "Spoiler" third party run to steal Ron Paul votes...

[ChristianAnarchist]

I can see it now. The "establishment" man Trump to run as third party candidate to make sure that Ron Paul (if we can get him the nomination) will have votes siphoned off to third party guaranteeing a second Obama term...

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/04/11/trump-will-probably-run-as-independent-if-he-doesnt-win-gop-nomination/

[reduen]

I think that this may be the intent all along but I also think that it will not work....

[thedude]

I think that this may be the intent all along but I also think that it will not work....

agreed.

[MRoCkEd]

Sorry but this is a terrible theory. Trump is in it for himself, not part of some conspiracy to stop Ron Paul.

[acptulsa]

Sorry but this is a terrible theory. Trump is in it for himself, not part of some conspiracy to stop Ron Paul.

Trump may be an arrogant blowhard that says a bunch of stupid things, but he is in no way stupid enough to try to win a Republican primary by threatening to go third party. He sealed his fate in the primaries with this. He probably is in it for himself, but his craziness has the air of the fox about it. How much stock does he own in defense contractors? What will happen to it if Ron Paul is elected?

The bastard wants you to underestimate him. I think I'll refrain from doing so.

[HOLLYWOOD]

HUCKABEE is NO LONGER NEEDED to play the part...

TRUMP is a Crone, a Crook, Establishment Corporate Welfare recipient, Democratic/Liberal/Progressive campaign donor, etc etc etc.

TRUMP would be ripped apart as a GOP conservative/constitutionalists/republican, Forget "The-Rent-Is-Too-Damn-High" guy... we have the "Look-At-Me-Guy-American-Serfs"

The Backroom deals are done... I wonder what; Obama, Axelrod, Gibbs, Rahm Emanuel, Penny Pritzker, Jim Messina, et al, offered Donald Trump? Most likely, Tax Credits, Developmental loans, a Bigger Slice of the Pie, etc.


The more noise all these distractions make, the less the American voters will hear Ron Paul and similar candidates.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Many who we need on our side will vote for Trump just because of the "birther" charade he is putting on. He has no real interest in Obama's birth certificate, he is only jumping on this issue as he sees it as a way to grab maybe 5% of the vote away from Ron Paul...

I also feel that Obama is hiding something about his birth but I realize that it's not important. What is important is getting someone who is not an establishment mouthpiece into the White House.

[libertygrl]

Sorry but this is a terrible theory. Trump is in it for himself, not part of some conspiracy to stop Ron Paul.

Well.... we'll soon find out. If Faux News makes Trump their new "golden boy" like they did McCain & Romney (2 choices to see which would stick most with Americans back in '08) then we will know for sure. As I recall, they blacklisted Ron Paul and practically filled most their air time with pundits discussing and interviewing Romney & McCain. It was a constant push by Faux. Plus, McCain & Romney also held center stage for all the debates on Faux and got asked the most questions. If we see Ron Paul shoved all the way over in the corner again, that will be a sure sign.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if some upper suit in Murdoch's group or Murdoch himself, put the bug in Trump's ear to run. Trump would still be in it for himself but I'm sure wouldn't mind the added advantage. The field was very weak and I have no doubt the elites were worried about Ron Paul's support being much more of a threat this time around. What could upstage Ron Paul more than a well know celebrity whose very aggressive and egotistical? Afterall, Americans are easily swayed by celebrity types. Unfortunately, style rules over substance in today's society.

[S.Shorland]

With Trump,nothing is free - including you!

[Humanae Libertas]

There may or may not be a conspiracy of the establishment GOP putting Trumper the birther up to block votes for RP. A conspiracy like that would actually make sense.

[Captain Shays]

So. I'm not the only one who thought of that when I heard it. If I'm crazy at least I'm in good company.

[erowe1]

Whether it's Trump or not, I think we should expect that if Ron Paul miraculously does get the Republican nomination, there will be some significant centrist or center-right 3rd-party or independent candidate who will garner significant support from Republicans who don't like RP. It's hard for me to imagine that not happening. There are just too many voters out there who would not vote for either Obama or Paul for there not to be someone for them with the resources behind them to get on all of the ballots and to run a presidential campaign.

[Captain Shays]

Whether it's Trump or not, I think we should expect that if Ron Paul miraculously does get the Republican nomination, there will be some significant centrist or center-right 3rd-party or independent candidate who will garner significant support from Republicans who don't like RP. It's hard for me to imagine that not happening. There are just too many voters out there who would not vote for either Obama or Paul for there not to be someone for them with the resources behind them to get on all of the ballots and to run a presidential campaign.


Let's be real. Just like the last time he ran and it seemed like we were getting close tot he mark with win after win in debates and polls and all the money we raised and the huge crowds RP drew there was an ominous feeling among many of us that he would be killed if he got too close. There were even articles about it one of which I was personally interviewed for where I said (proudly and boldly) that I would take a bullet for Ron Paul.

We ALL need to be well aware of the kinds of forces we're up against. Not just in the media but those who own and control the media. Not just the military industrial complex (which comprises some 35% of our GNP which is measured in terms of $$$TRILLIONS) but with the people behind the scenes of the military industrial complex and those who profit from it.
Not the least of whom are the bankers of the Federal Reserve who own our government and everything else. They won't hesitate to off ANYONE who threatens their power structures and they won't stop at ANYTHING to stop that person or persons from getting close. This is the real thing and we're playing with some serious dudes. They will lie. Ignore. Marginalize. Deflect. Shoot. Poison. Discredit. Lie about. Come up with naked pictures of you with a girl scout that you never saw before. Ask Ralph Nader. GM executives attempted to entrap him with a prostitute when he was going after them.

[pacelli]

Donald trump is simply unelectable. As evidenced by the fact that he's never been elected.

[Peace&Freedom]

Not only has Trump probably been approached to be the "billionaire spoiler" to block a Ron Paul Presidency, I bet he wasn't the only one. Bloomberg, Buffett, heck even gates have probably been asked to do the honors. This is the rich guy version of "taking a bullet" for the establishment, or at least poisoning the well of legitimate liberty themes. Notice how even the one issue Trump is pushing, ie Barry's birth certificate, he's presenting defective and incomplete arguments for it. Promoting weak aspects of an issue is a way of discrediting it in advance of a more serious advocate pushing it. If he gets around to issues Paul himself is promoting, look for him to present a defective version of those as well.

[AGRP]

There's no denying Trump is targeting the birther-neocon crowd.

[ssantoro]

An old trick from way back.

Theodore Roosevelt announced he would run for President as a third party candidate. As a republican ex-president he was sure to take a substantial amount of votes from Taft. As it came to pass Woodrow Wilson became President with only 41.8 % of the popular vote while Taft and Roosevelt split the remaining 58%. The result was that a democratic congress and a democratic president were elected in 1912 to get the central bank legislation passed.

[acptulsa]

The result was that a democratic congress and a democratic president were elected in 1912 to get the central bank legislation passed.

Sound familiar? Yes, the man's talking about the Fed. To which I might add, and to ensure we eventually got into the European war.

[ssantoro]

Trump is a poser. His agenda is money and power. He's an establishment plant. Nothing else.

[Kotin]

Sorry but this is a terrible theory. Trump is in it for himself, not part of some conspiracy to stop Ron Paul.

agreed.. this is Donald Trump we are talking about lol.. he is not even a republican so he could probably care less.. this guy is all about self promotion.. THATS IT!!

I dont even think he will run.

[anaconda]

Well.... we'll soon find out. If Faux News makes Trump their new "golden boy" like they did McCain & Romney (2 choices to see which would stick most with Americans back in '08) then we will know for sure. As I recall, they blacklisted Ron Paul and practically filled most their air time with pundits discussing and interviewing Romney & McCain. It was a constant push by Faux. Plus, McCain & Romney also held center stage for all the debates on Faux and got asked the most questions. If we see Ron Paul shoved all the way over in the corner again, that will be a sure sign.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if some upper suit in Murdoch's group or Murdoch himself, put the bug in Trump's ear to run. Trump would still be in it for himself but I'm sure wouldn't mind the added advantage. The field was very weak and I have no doubt the elites were worried about Ron Paul's support being much more of a threat this time around. What could upstage Ron Paul more than a well know celebrity whose very aggressive and egotistical? Afterall, Americans are easily swayed by celebrity types. Unfortunately, style rules over substance in today's society.

I don't believe that Fox made McCain their "golden boy" in 2007. My memory of McCain is feeling a little bit sorry for the has been old and chubby loser on the right side of the stage because he was flying coach, carrying his own luggage, and needed volunteers to drive him around at campaign stops. He seemed utterly irrelevant. Then he "won" New Hampshire.

[anaconda]

agreed.. this is Donald Trump we are talking about lol.. he is not even a republican so he could probably care less.. this guy is all about self promotion.. THATS IT!!

I dont even think he will run.

I am leaning this way. When the season gets going Trump's numbers will fade into oblivion.

[LibertyEagle]

I don't believe that Fox made McCain their "golden boy" in 2007. My memory of McCain is feeling a little bit sorry for the has been old and chubby loser on the right side of the stage because he was flying coach, carrying his own luggage, and needed volunteers to drive him around at campaign stops. He seemed utterly irrelevant. Then he "won" New Hampshire.

He was also out of money. I remember before the New Hampshire primary, a very small story in the paper about some well-funded individuals flying to McCain to meet with him.

After that, McCain rose from the ashes.

[erowe1]

I don't believe that Fox made McCain their "golden boy" in 2007. My memory of McCain is feeling a little bit sorry for the has been old and chubby loser on the right side of the stage because he was flying coach, carrying his own luggage, and needed volunteers to drive him around at campaign stops. He seemed utterly irrelevant. Then he "won" New Hampshire.

But before McCain's campaign crumbled in the spring and summer of 2007 he had enjoyed the status of de facto front runner ever since 2000. Like Dole in 1996, he was the guy whose turn it was. He had the most high-profile endorsements from elected Republican office holders, along with an automatic advantage that goes with the connections those endorsements bring with them. I don't think he would have been able to come back from his stumble in early 2007 if it had not been the case that he was already the party establishment's anointee.

[georgiaboy]

caught a little bit of el Rushbo today. He said he's getting emails about Trump, and the emails are all over the map. The ones he mentioned were ones that thought Trump was being brought in by Democrats to split the conservative vote and allow Obama to re-take the presidency, a "Ross Perot" effect. He was flummoxed over the birther issue and his statements about a possible independent run. He said he'd try to have Trump on later this week to clear up the confusion. No mention of Ron Paul.

I personally think Donald has too big an ego for any of these games that doesn't stroke him the right way and is just testing the waters to see if a win is possible. He likes to win, and taking a fall for some other candidate, even with perks on the back-end, isn't his style.

[qh4dotcom]

Oh please, votes are earned, not stolen

[qh4dotcom]

Many who we need on our side will vote for Trump just because of the "birther" charade he is putting on. He has no real interest in Obama's birth certificate, he is only jumping on this issue as he sees it as a way to grab maybe 5% of the vote away from Ron Paul...

I also feel that Obama is hiding something about his birth but I realize that it's not important. What is important is getting someone who is not an establishment mouthpiece into the White House.
Of course he has an interest...he's got a big ego and when he wants something he usually gets it...in this case he's not getting what he wants (Obama's bc) so that's why he's making such a big deal out of it.

[Matt Collins]

Fred Thompson was used to keep Huckabee from taking a lead and to ensure McCain won in 08

[ChristianAnarchist]

caught a little bit of el Rushbo today. He said he's getting emails about Trump, and the emails are all over the map. The ones he mentioned were ones that thought Trump was being brought in by Democrats to split the conservative vote and allow Obama to re-take the presidency, a "Ross Perot" effect. He was flummoxed over the birther issue and his statements about a possible independent run. He said he'd try to have Trump on later this week to clear up the confusion. No mention of Ron Paul.

I personally think Donald has too big an ego for any of these games that doesn't stroke him the right way and is just testing the waters to see if a win is possible. He likes to win, and taking a fall for some other candidate, even with perks on the back-end, isn't his style.

Who knows what his "style" is? He's a big money man and you make big money by not letting your opponents know what you are thinking. It's "showtime" and the Donald has his TV face on...

[anaconda]

Oh please, votes are earned, not stolen

Well...sometimes they're earned and then stolen...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKQEQ7qHvgM

[cindy25]

Trump's 3rd party is a positive; splits the pro-war hawkish vote, and it needs to be split.

Trump opens up the viability of 4th party, even 5th party.

[acptulsa]

Trump's 3rd party is a positive; splits the pro-war hawkish vote, and it needs to be split.

Well, if we get our man the nomination, I don't see that helping. We could actually get some hawks away from Obama, in spite of his considerable cooperation with the powers of death. But not if Trump gets to them first.

[anaconda]

Trump's 3rd party is a positive; splits the pro-war hawkish vote, and it needs to be split.

Trump opens up the viability of 4th party, even 5th party.

Did I miss something? I thought Trump would be pursuing the Republican nomination?

[kahless]

I don't believe that Fox made McCain their "golden boy" in 2007. My memory of McCain is feeling a little bit sorry for the has been old and chubby loser on the right side of the stage because he was flying coach, carrying his own luggage, and needed volunteers to drive him around at campaign stops. He seemed utterly irrelevant. Then he "won" New Hampshire.

Ron Paul was flush with millions in cash donations and McCain was broke getting ready to sell his bus just before the New Hampshire debates. Despite that Foxnews kept Ron Paul out of the NH debate and ran a smear campaign against him. Foxnews, MSNBC and the MSM then pulled out all stops promoting McCain so their boy would win the NH primary. Thats how McCain won New Hampshire.

The media is ultimately the deciding factor in who will win in the primaries. Our battle is with them.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Trump will almost certainly run GOP. He's a neocon warmonger and would steal votes from Romney, etc - not Paul.

[kahless]

Trump will almost certainly run GOP. He's a neocon warmonger and would steal votes from Romney, etc - not Paul.

Foxnews's choice is Romney, but they are having difficulty selling it so they are now floating Trump. Like it or not Foxnews is the leading MSM factor in ultimately deciding whom the Republican nominee will be from the marching orders provided to them by Neocon establishment.

I doubt Ron Paul will ever be an acceptable candidate by Foxnews and they will likely do everything in their power to prevent him from being the nominee. That is unless their Neocon candidate propaganda continues to fail and Ron blows away all other candidates in fund raising and polls. This makes it an untenable situation for them forcing their hand to accept Paul as a candidate.

[Peace&Freedom]

I've said it before and must stress it again. The main issue is getting Paul to run to WIN, and for us to concentrate on reaching average LIKELY voters about him. The bad coverage or slights (mainly) cable news networks give him that only a minority of voters watch is a secondary issue, at best. The leading MSM factor blocking Paul is lack of coverage on BROADCAST ABC, NBC and CBS, AP, Washington Post and the NY Times. That A-list is the MSM, not the rest. Concentrate on that, or on promoting Paul in Republican leaning districts in order to help him win Republican primaries, and less on what only 200,000 people nationwide saw on MSNBC or Fox cable today.

[kahless]

I've said it before and must stress it again. The main issue is getting Paul to run to WIN, and for us to concentrate on reaching average LIKELY voters about him. The bad coverage or slights (mainly) cable news networks give him that only a minority of voters watch is a secondary issue, at best. The leading MSM factor blocking Paul is lack of coverage on BROADCAST ABC, NBC and CBS, AP, Washington Post and the NY Times. That A-list is the MSM, not the rest. Concentrate on that, or on promoting Paul in Republican leaning districts in order to help him win Republican primaries, and less on what only 200,000 people nationwide saw on MSNBC or Fox cable today.

In the general election I agree with your point. However likely Republican primary voters watch Foxnews and IMHO do not give a dam about what Katie Couric has to say. The NH Foxnews debate proved that. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?287350-Trump-quot-Spoiler-quot-third-party-run-to-steal-Ron-Paul-votes...&p=3208032&viewfull=1#post3208032

Regardless all should be targeted since the MSM ultimately is the deciding factor for the viewer.

[Peace&Freedom]

Note I said minority of VOTERS, not minority of viewers.The highest rated cable news shows reaches a million viewers or so max, while broadcast news reaches 10 to 20 times more people. Most voters don't watch the debates, period. In 2007 we spent an inordinate amount of time glowing about how well Paul performed in debates that most voters didn't ever see. Doing that again would be a mistake.

[Brian4Liberty]

I personally think Donald has too big an ego for any of these games that doesn't stroke him the right way and is just testing the waters to see if a win is possible. He likes to win, and taking a fall for some other candidate, even with perks on the back-end, isn't his style.

Yeah, Trump has an ego, and it's mostly about that. Of course the media and influential people will use Trump for other agendas.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Beck at 5pm gets 2-2.5 Million viewers regularly.

Your numbers are off.

[tangent4ronpaul]

As of April 2009, it is available to 102 million households in the United States and further to viewers internationally, broadcasting primarily out of its New York City studios.

In September 2009, the Pew Research Center published a report on public views toward various national news organizations. This report indicated that 72% of Republican Fox viewers rated the channel as "favorable", and 43% of Democrat viewers and 55% of all viewers share this opinion. However, Fox had the highest unfavorable rating of all national outlets studied at 25 percent of all viewers. The report goes on to say that "partisan differences in views of Fox News have increased substantially since 2007".[38]

In January 2010, the Democratic Party-affiliated Public Policy Polling reported that Fox News was the most trusted television news channel in the country with 49% of respondents stating they trust Fox News.[39][40] Fox also scored the lowest level of distrust with only 37%, and was the only channel to score a net positive in that regard, with a +12%. CNN scored second in the poll with 39% of those polled stating that they trusted the news channel, and 41% stating distrust, a −2% net score.[41]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_Channel

[Peace&Freedom]

Like I said, a million OR SO, 2 million doesn't change the point. "Trusted" or "available" to viewers doesn't mean "typically watched" by viewers. Whether broadcast or cable, most viewers don't watch news shows. Cable News ratings from April 12, according to Nielson (in hundreds of thousands):

P2+ (000s) ; 25-54 (000s) ; 35-64 (000s)
Total Day
FNC---- 1,175 ; 296 ; 586
CNN---- 421 ; 136 ; 193
MSNBC-- 455 ; 123 ; 216
CNBC--- 174 ; 53 ; 93
FBN---- 65 ; 11 ; 36
HLN---- 195 ; 81 ; 112

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/04/13/cable-news-ratings-for-tuesday-april-12-2011/89299


Meanwhile, average broadcast news viewership is over 21 million people total:

"Despite lots of news from North Africa, Japan and here at home, the broadcast evening newscasts had a slow week ratingswise April 4-8. All three newscasts were down compared to the previous week in both total viewers and the demo. That said, they were up compared to the same week last year.

As usual “NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams” won the week with 8.43 million total viewers, and 2.56 million adults 25-54. “ABC World News with Diane Sawyer” placed 2nd with 7.84 million total viewers and 2.14 million A25-54. “CBS Evening News with Katie Couric” finished a distant third..."

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/category/evening-news-ratings

[HOLLYWOOD]

Note I said minority of VOTERS, not minority of viewers.The highest rated cable news shows reaches a million viewers or so max, while broadcast news reaches 10 to 20 times more people. Most voters don't watch the debates, period. In 2007 we spent an inordinate amount of time glowing about how well Paul performed in debates that most voters didn't ever see. Doing that again would be a mistake.Yeap... it's all SALES and MARKETING... you'll get 10x's as many votes putting up a couple of political campaign ads on American Idol, CSI - whatever, 2 1/2 Morons, DWTS, etc, than spending 1,000's of hours banner waving and slim jim donating. What the advertising bucks also do, is neutralize the bias a bit when your spending millions on their propaganda networks.