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IowaSupport
10-25-2007, 12:19 PM
I found this opinion piece by a Daily Iowan(U of Iowa newspaper) worker when I searched for Ron Paul on the website:

"...Sadly, the candidates that do put themselves out on a limb are crazy. Ron Paul might be the most original candidate, but he's also insane - we're talking disband the FBI and IRS insane."

The article was about how he liked that Colbert was trying to bring less BS to the debates, and more debate. He criticized the other candidates for not stepping out on a limb.

Now, I will be responding to this article, and I am seeing the obvious connection between no one wanted to out on a limb, and then having the one person who goes out on a limb called "insane" multiple times in one sentence without backing up why. (Hmm, I wonder why these silly candidates don't put themselves out there?)

I know how to defend his position on the IRS, it's mandatory to fill out the forms, you're innocent until proven guilty, and it's only 40% of the Federal budget (anyone have a link to an exact amount?)

What I'm not familiar with is RP's position on the FBI and CIA etc... if I'm going to fire back at this guy, I want to be as informed as possible on the subject, so please, ron paul forums, educate me: What are Ron Paul's plans for the FBI and CIA?

EDIT: Oh boy - please move to Grassroots area - can't believe I did that.

rs3515
10-25-2007, 12:45 PM
From his PBS interview a couple of weeks ago:

JUDY WOODRUFF: You'd do away with the CIA, I saw. Is that correct or not?

REP. RON PAUL: Well, not all of the functions, but essentially so. The CIA is what gets us into trouble. I mean, the CIA is what really started things in the Middle East, because the CIA went in and overthrew Mosaddeq in 1953. We put in the shah. The CIA murdered Diem, or participated in the overthrow of the government in Vietnam, which leads to trouble.

It's a secret government. Congress has no idea what the CIA is doing, because nobody knows, other than what the CIA is. It is one of the things that is not characteristic of a free society.

--------------------
So in regards to the CIA, he is not saying to get rid of all functions, just those that are unessential. Wants them to be focused on intelligence gathering, not working as assasins. I think the big point here is there is no transparency for the Congress to know what the CIA is doing, and that's not a characteristic of a free society. Many of the biggest problems of the past 50 years were caused due to direct CIA intervention (Shah in 1953, Osama bin Laden receiving weapons, etc.)

Same with the FBI ... it's more about streamlining operations, not eliminating the function completely. He would still have people gathering intelligence, but remove the bureaucracy and streamline the process of getting intelligence into decision makers' hands in a more timely fashion.

IowaSupport
10-25-2007, 01:36 PM
Thanks rs - that's comforting - I wonder why he doesn't say that type of thing more often.

saahmed
10-25-2007, 01:53 PM
I found this opinion piece by a Daily Iowan(U of Iowa newspaper) worker when I searched for Ron Paul on the website:

"...Sadly, the candidates that do put themselves out on a limb are crazy. Ron Paul might be the most original candidate, but he's also insane - we're talking disband the FBI and IRS insane."

The article was about how he liked that Colbert was trying to bring less BS to the debates, and more debate. He criticized the other candidates for not stepping out on a limb.

Now, I will be responding to this article, and I am seeing the obvious connection between no one wanted to out on a limb, and then having the one person who goes out on a limb called "insane" multiple times in one sentence without backing up why. (Hmm, I wonder why these silly candidates don't put themselves out there?)

I know how to defend his position on the IRS, it's mandatory to fill out the forms, you're innocent until proven guilty, and it's only 40% of the Federal budget (anyone have a link to an exact amount?)

What I'm not familiar with is RP's position on the FBI and CIA etc... if I'm going to fire back at this guy, I want to be as informed as possible on the subject, so please, ron paul forums, educate me: What are Ron Paul's plans for the FBI and CIA?

EDIT: Oh boy - please move to Grassroots area - can't believe I did that.

When was this? Do you have a link? Also, are you in Iowa City? Do you know about a debate going on tonight and an event hosted by the College Republicans at the IMU? I just saw a sign at Hubbard, didnt know about it but I'm gonna try to go.

saahmed
10-25-2007, 01:58 PM
Also with the whole IRS thing: The Federal Income tax I believe makes up 1/3 of federal government's revenue. If we went back to the spending we had in 2000, the government would have enough revenue to have a balanced budget without a federal income tax. You might have to look up some info on that, if I have time I'll do what I can to help since I'm a Daily Iowan reader. The movie Freedom to Fascism has a bunch of good info.

fletcher
10-25-2007, 02:11 PM
The Daily Iowan is such a piece of crap. The only thing it is good for is drink specials.

lasenorita
10-25-2007, 02:14 PM
Well, we have to ask: what is the FBI's (and the CIA's, for that matter) role in our society? What are they supposed to be doing? Is it to go to foreign countries and meddle in their internal affairs? Is it to monitor political activists here at home?

Here is what Congressman Paul had to say about the FBI:


It is important to understand that the Constitution contains no express authorization for federal police agencies. Article I section 8 sets out the only federal crimes, namely counterfeiting, piracy, and treason. The Founders intended all other criminal matters to be policed by the states themselves, not by federal agencies. The unconstitutional federalization of purely state criminal matters has enabled the FBI and other federal police agencies to operate far beyond constitutional limits.

Head on over to the Ron Paul Library (http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=190) to read some very enlightening speeches and writings. :D

Anyways, from what I gather, basically what Ron Paul is saying is that:


The current system involves too many bureaucrats, too much overlap, too many turf battles, too little information sharing, and no clear accountability. Why do we insist on perpetuating failed agencies and policies, throwing more and more money at problems that stem from bureaucratic culture rather than funding problems?

and that


It's a definite benefit for so many to recognize that our $40 billion annual investment in intelligence gathering prior to 9/11 was a failure. Now a sincere desire exists to rectify these mistakes. That's good, unless, instead of changing the role for the CIA and the FBI, all the past mistakes are made worse by spending more money and enlarging the bureaucracies to do the very same thing without improving their efficiency or changing their goals.

IowaSupport
10-25-2007, 02:18 PM
The Daily Iowan is such a piece of crap. The only thing it is good for is drink specials.

Agreed - but hundreds of bored college students read it every day - I'm going to try to get my jabs in.


When was this? Do you have a link? Also, are you in Iowa City? Do you know about a debate going on tonight and an event hosted by the College Republicans at the IMU? I just saw a sign at Hubbard, didnt know about it but I'm gonna try to go.

Linky: http://media.www.dailyiowan.com/media/storage/paper599/news/2007/10/22/Opinions/And-So.Can.You-3046800.shtml

I am in Iowa City, yes. I didn't know about any debate - what is it over?

Also - thank you lace - I'll use this and check out the library for sure. If anyone else has insights, please post - the more the merrier.

malibu
10-25-2007, 02:35 PM
The Daily Iowan is such a piece of crap. The only thing it is good for is drink specials.

When Rudy was in Iowa City last week the DI - Daily Iowan - said that Giuliani was the first GOP candidate to visit the campus.

The staff doesn't even read their own paper apparently as RP was on campus in April -

http://media.www.dailyiowan.com/media/storage/paper599/news/2007/04/12/Metro/DarkHorse.Paul.Says.U.s.Going.Bankrupt-2836674.shtml

IowaSupport
10-25-2007, 02:46 PM
Can I get a link to that as well (The Guiliani reference) ? I might throw that in there if I want to get feisty.

tiznow
10-25-2007, 02:54 PM
Can I get a link to that as well (The Guiliani reference) ? I might throw that in there if I want to get feisty.

not sure about the reference but....also maybe the DI just referenced rudy

here's an article about the rudy event at iowa independent...these guys are great....

http://www.iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1302

a few excerpts

Giuliani repeated the claim that his visit was the first Iowa City stop and joked about the liberal reputations of his city and Iowa City. "There's more Republicans just on this side of the room than in New York City," he said. New York City Board of Elections statistics count 459,645 registered Republicans in the Big Apple, and the room definitely wasn't that full.

The first-visit claim is false both in fact and spirit. Ron Paul spoke on campus in April, long before the Ron Paul Revolution kicked into high gear. John Cox, the longest of long shots, visited Iowa City in July. Tom Tancredo appeared just outside the city limits in March, and now-departed candidate Tommy Thompson visited the Wig and Pen, a tavern that straddles the Iowa City-Coralville boundary, in July. John McCain made an unannounced stop at the Hamburg Inn in May. And Fred Thompson, Sam Brownback, Mitt Romney, and Mike Huckabee have all had big events in next-door Coralville.

--------------------------------------------

this is great too at the end I had something to do with this :D

The "ROO-DY! ROO-DY!" chants were revisited in the lobby, as several dozen supporters marched down to overwhelm four Ron Paul supporters handing out flyers. "They did all this just for us?" one Paul supporter quipped, handing a curiosity-seeker a flyer.

malibu
10-25-2007, 03:55 PM
Can I get a link to that as well (The Guiliani reference) ? I might throw that in there if I want to get feisty.

Giuliani article is at :

http://www.dailyiowan.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticle&ustory_id=52b48b0b-639e-4af9-a3b2-a87a7794da3f&page=2

saahmed
10-25-2007, 04:47 PM
Agreed - but hundreds of bored college students read it every day - I'm going to try to get my jabs in.



Linky: http://media.www.dailyiowan.com/media/storage/paper599/news/2007/10/22/Opinions/And-So.Can.You-3046800.shtml

I am in Iowa City, yes. I didn't know about any debate - what is it over?

Also - thank you lace - I'll use this and check out the library for sure. If anyone else has insights, please post - the more the merrier.

Here is the facebook event: http://iowa.facebook.com/event.php?eid=26069375256
I have no idea what they are referring to, but apparently there is a Republican debate tonight.

Eric21ND
10-25-2007, 06:38 PM
Paul wants these agencies to be ran more efficiently. Case in point was the FBI agent that sent like 50 memos about suspicious activity of the terrorists on 9/11 learning to fly planes, but not land them and his warnings were buried or ignored through incompetence. As for the CIA nobody in government knows exactly everything they're up to. Paul would end some of the secret wars these people are engaging in. Check out the book "Ghost Wars".