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View Full Version : 75% of Americans Get Some Sizaeble Government Benefit




bobbyw24
04-11-2011, 08:49 AM
Few Americans realize the extent of their dependency. The Census Bureau reports that in 2009 almost half (46.2 percent) of the 300 million Americans received at least one federal benefit: 46.5 million, Social Security; 42.6 million, Medicare; 42.4 million, Medicaid; 36.1 million, food stamps; 3.2 million, veterans’ benefits; 12.4 million, housing subsidies. The census list doesn’t include tax breaks. Counting those, perhaps three-quarters or more of Americans receive some sizable government benefit. For example, about 22 percent of taxpayers benefit from the home mortgage interest deduction and 43 percent from the preferential treatment of employer-provided health insurance, says the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/big-government-on-the-brink/2011/04/09/AFNcwrGD_story.html?hpid=z3

Krugerrand
04-11-2011, 08:52 AM
Isn't it nice when it's considered a benefit to get robbed by a lesser amount than what was originally planned.

bobbyw24
04-11-2011, 08:54 AM
Isn't it nice when it's considered a benefit to get robbed by a lesser amount than what was originally planned.

Good point.

The United States Code Title 42 is called "The Public Health and Welfare" article and it includes the laws governing Social Security

dean.engelhardt
04-11-2011, 08:55 AM
They exclude people that drive or use the Post Office. It is a good article.

acptulsa
04-11-2011, 08:58 AM
Give us half your money.

Now. Jump through these hoops and you'll get some back. Now, didn't we do you such a huge favor with that?

Business as usual.

Fredom101
04-11-2011, 09:05 AM
This is why we need to be realistic about Ron Paul's chances to win. Most people think RP will take away their goodies! It's the mentality of a 7-year old, but, so is the whole idea of gov't/collectivism. Most voters completely buy into it, and you can just follow the money as to how they will vote.

acptulsa
04-11-2011, 09:07 AM
This is why Ron Paul doesn't have a chance to win. Most people think RP will take away their goodies! It's the mentality of a 7-year old, but, so is the whole idea of gov't/collectivism.

Well, even a seven year old can understand the concept of there's nothing more under the Christmans Tree...

Fredom101
04-11-2011, 09:09 AM
Well, even a seven year old can understand the concept of there's nothing more under the Christmans Tree...

Not if they still can see boxes under the tree. Remember, government is magic just like Santa Clause.

heavenlyboy34
04-11-2011, 09:12 AM
This is why we need to be realistic about Ron Paul's chances to win. Most people think RP will take away their goodies! It's the mentality of a 7-year old, but, so is the whole idea of gov't/collectivism. Most voters completely buy into it, and you can just follow the money as to how they will vote.
+rep

Vessol
04-11-2011, 09:26 AM
Well, even a seven year old can understand the concept of there's nothing more under the Christmans Tree...

That's when you get empty boxes and wrap them up nice and pretty.

acptulsa
04-11-2011, 09:30 AM
That's when you get empty boxes and wrap them up nice and pretty.

High speed rail that won't extend beyond the coasts, and nice streamlined windmills to tilt at. Yeah, empty boxes full of meaningless promises.

'Knife and fork are on the table, but there's nothing in the pan.
And if you say anything about it, you get in trouble with The Man.

'Let the Midnight Special shine a light on me...'


I'm tired of this prison.

Brett85
04-11-2011, 10:07 AM
A tax break isn't the same as a subsidy. It certainly isn't a "government benefit."

bobbyw24
04-11-2011, 10:08 AM
A tax break isn't the same as a subsidy. It certainly isn't a "government benefit."

Tax breaks are kinda like subsidies that cuase the government to lose revenue

Knightskye
04-11-2011, 11:50 AM
Should the government keep all of our money? That was Ayn Rand's rationale for taking Medicare. She paid into it. Why shouldn't she -- or any American -- get her money back?

thehighwaymanq
04-11-2011, 03:28 PM
Question-

As an 18 year old, do I receive anything at all from government or do I just help pay for others?

acptulsa
04-11-2011, 04:09 PM
Question-

As an 18 year old, do I receive anything at all from government or do I just help pay for others?

You'd be rewarded handsomely for getting yourself preagnant.

IDefendThePlatform
04-11-2011, 04:29 PM
Question-

As an 18 year old, do I receive anything at all from government or do I just help pay for others?

Are you in state sponsored school of any kind? (high school, state colleges, etc) That would be tax money.

Mini-Me
04-12-2011, 05:07 AM
If you drive on the roads or drink municipal water, you're receiving a government benefit. After all, when the (or a) government severely restricts your options and extorts your money to pay for their monopoly, you have no right to complain about what they do if you use it...or so some would say. :rolleyes:

acptulsa
04-12-2011, 05:25 AM
If you drive on the roads or drink municipal water, you're receiving a government benefit. After all, when the (or a) government severely restricts your options and extorts your money to pay for their monopoly, you have no right to complain about what they do if you use it...or so some would say. :rolleyes:

So, when I buy electricity I'm receiving a 'benefit' from the electric company? Um, no. When I buy water I'm buying water. This isn't a 'govenment benefit'. Not even the most rabid liberal would make such a spurious argument. Why would we?

Krugerrand
04-12-2011, 05:30 AM
So, when I buy electricity I'm receiving a 'benefit' from the electric company? Um, no. When I buy water I'm buying water. This isn't a 'govenment benefit'. Not even the most rabid liberal would make such a spurious argument. Why would we?

Don't be so sure.

WilliamC
04-12-2011, 07:30 AM
You never know when you'll be on the receiving end of welfare. Just look at me.

In July 2009 I lost my job, which was somewhat expected because when I was hired it was for a two-year position unless more funding (read government funding via a NSF grant to my boss) became available. Nevertheless I was immediately eligible for unemployment, which I never did sign up for. See I had saved some money and was going to go back to school for a year (same school where I had been working) to finish classes so as to enroll in a Masters program in Mathematics the following year. Said Masters program would have been paid for, plus a small stipend, by the State of Mississippi, and I was thinking that this, along with my PhD in Genetics would help me get a much better position that I currently was able to.

Alas I was diagnosed with rectal cancer two weeks after losing my job and right before classes started, so I had to give up on taking classes and get chemo/radiation therapy and a couple of surgeries instead. Wiped out a good 10 months of my life dealing with that, along with most of the money I had saved up for education.

In June/July 2010 I had recovered from my treatment. My wife wanted me to find another job for 2-3 years, save up money, then go back to school. Fortunately she has a reliable job herself and is able to provide for our family (3 school age children). Since all I needed was 6-7 undergraduate math classes, which I could knock out in 3 semesters, I decided instead to get a student loan for one semester, which if handled frugally would cover all 3 semesters worth of tuition. So I did.

Three weeks into classes last fall I was told my cancer had spread to my liver and I would once more need to undergo extensive chemotherapy and surgery, so now I had to drop my 3 classes. Logistically it just wasn't possible to both. But this time our savings were pretty much gone and my wife was making a serious issue out of how I was no longer contributing towards the family income. So I swallowed my pride, compromised my principles, and signed up for Social Security disability, which I now receive along with supplemental payments for my 3 children. Mind you I've worked full time for 20 years and paid SS taxes this entire time, but to me it is the same thing as being on welfare.

Well I just got home yesterday from surgery to remove the tumors on my liver, but unfortunately when the surgeons were able to actually get inside me they discovered it was inoperable. So now I'll have to talk to my oncologist again to see what my options are and how long I have left to live.

Right now I'm still healthy, but I doubt I'll ever be able to be hired as an employee again. I've been out of my field long enough that no one will hire me at a position comparable to what I used to do (I actually did put in about 20 applications to various jobs that are theoretically within driving distance of where I live and never heard back from any of them). I wish I had the ability to be an entrepenur but I've no idea of how to start or what to do or why anyone should buy anything from me. All I've ever wanted to do was science and or mathematics. Maybe if I can get healthy I can get a job teaching somewhere but when I'm going to the clinic every week for chemo that's not really possible.

So what am I to do? The only reason I signed up for SS benefits was to alleviate the pressure on my wife as being the sole breadwinner and to give us some breathing room. We have essentially no debt (the debt we have could be paid off tomorrow but I'd rather hold onto the cash I have and pay it off over time, and besides if I die it will die with me as it's in my name only) and we also have some appreciating assets tucked away for the children that I may start quietly liquidating when commodity prices get high enough, but they aren't enough right now to make a huge difference in our financial position.

But am I a freeloader for getting SS disability? I never did get any unemployment I was eligible for (and my how much hell I caught for that from family/friends) and personally I feel like I am on welfare every time I see that government check, even though I paid into the system all my adult working life. But the kids have got to have a future and your tax dollars help provide that. When I'm dead they and my wife will collect survivors benefits. I had had life insurance and disability insurance but that was through my job and terminated when it did, and I'll never be eligible for either again unless I get another job.

What would you do in my situation? Give up SS benefits and live off one income while draining the last portion of our savings until we are living paycheck-to-paycheck like most everyone else? Or just go with the reality of the system we are forced to live under and use that extra couple grand a month to do more than scrape by and to try and provide for your family after you are dead?

That's where I'm at today.

acptulsa
04-12-2011, 07:37 AM
But am I a freeloader for getting SS disability? I never did get any unemployment I was eligible for (and my how much hell I caught for that from family/friends) and personally I feel like I am on welfare every time I see that government check, even though I paid into the system all my adult working life.

So, you consider it your own fault that you were forced to get crappy insurance and the free market was denied the chance to offer you something better? Well, what if you were partly to blame (a theory I would argue fervently against). How is collecting what you can on your crappy insurance welfare? Were you allowed to miss a payment or something?

You have enough problems without making yourself sicker worrying that life made you take back what the government made you cough up. God bless and good luck.

WilliamC
04-12-2011, 07:40 AM
So, you consider it your own fault that you were forced to get crappy insurance and the free market was denied the chance to offer you something better? Well, what if you were partly to blame (a theory I would argue fervently against). How is collecting what you can on your crappy insurance welfare? Were you allowed to miss a payment or something?

You have enough problems without making yourself sicker worrying that life made you take back what the government made you cough up. God bless and good luck.

I'm a freeloader for not getting better insurance while I was employed and healthy and now being forced to rely on SS instead of a private company.

Thanks for the positive response though.

acptulsa
04-12-2011, 07:54 AM
I'm a freeloader for not getting better insurance while I was employed and healthy and now being forced to rely on SS instead of a private company.

You can get disability insurance from a private company in this country? And it's full insurance, not just a 'supplemental' policy? Are you sure? I thought it was illegal, or at the very least, a tiny market no one wanted to service...

WilliamC
04-12-2011, 10:04 AM
You can get disability insurance from a private company in this country? And it's full insurance, not just a 'supplemental' policy? Are you sure? I thought it was illegal, or at the very least, a tiny market no one wanted to service...

I'm not much educated on the topic but private disability insurance is available. For some background see:

http://www.fool.com/insurancecenter/disability/disability05.htm

A friend of mine had maxed out on disability insurance when he was working (although I don't know if it was private insurance) and ended up blind in one eye and 100% disabled from a brain tumor. Now he gets that payment in addition to his SS benefits. If it wasn't for his profligate spending habits he could still be building wealth even though he can't work. As it is he still has a good lifestyle.

The main mistake I made though was not having private life insurance. I had a policy through my job but obviously that wasn't enough.

Oops.

Mini-Me
04-14-2011, 12:06 AM
So, when I buy electricity I'm receiving a 'benefit' from the electric company? Um, no. When I buy water I'm buying water. This isn't a 'govenment benefit'. Not even the most rabid liberal would make such a spurious argument. Why would we?

What if the water comes at a "reduced price" due to taxes being paid into the utility company? ;) I'm just being sarcastic though, and I agree that calling that a government benefit is completely batpoop crazy.

I think you underestimate the inanity of rabid liberals though. ;) The whole reason I thought of the argument was because a liberal on digg actually DID once use that argument against me, and he was both dead serious and angry enough with my counterarguments that he resorted to speculative ad hominems. :p

jclay2
04-14-2011, 12:41 AM
So I just landed a job that will start after I graduate in June. After taking some time to sit down and do a budget with my fiance, I was very unpleased to realize that the government will get more in taxes from me than I will save (even living very frugally).

I guess I should get used to and expect this raping (especially) if I start earning a high income.

justinc.1089
04-14-2011, 01:31 AM
You never know when you'll be on the receiving end of welfare. Just look at me.

In July 2009 I lost my job, which was somewhat expected because when I was hired it was for a two-year position unless more funding (read government funding via a NSF grant to my boss) became available. Nevertheless I was immediately eligible for unemployment, which I never did sign up for. See I had saved some money and was going to go back to school for a year (same school where I had been working) to finish classes so as to enroll in a Masters program in Mathematics the following year. Said Masters program would have been paid for, plus a small stipend, by the State of Mississippi, and I was thinking that this, along with my PhD in Genetics would help me get a much better position that I currently was able to.

Alas I was diagnosed with rectal cancer two weeks after losing my job and right before classes started, so I had to give up on taking classes and get chemo/radiation therapy and a couple of surgeries instead. Wiped out a good 10 months of my life dealing with that, along with most of the money I had saved up for education.

In June/July 2010 I had recovered from my treatment. My wife wanted me to find another job for 2-3 years, save up money, then go back to school. Fortunately she has a reliable job herself and is able to provide for our family (3 school age children). Since all I needed was 6-7 undergraduate math classes, which I could knock out in 3 semesters, I decided instead to get a student loan for one semester, which if handled frugally would cover all 3 semesters worth of tuition. So I did.

Three weeks into classes last fall I was told my cancer had spread to my liver and I would once more need to undergo extensive chemotherapy and surgery, so now I had to drop my 3 classes. Logistically it just wasn't possible to both. But this time our savings were pretty much gone and my wife was making a serious issue out of how I was no longer contributing towards the family income. So I swallowed my pride, compromised my principles, and signed up for Social Security disability, which I now receive along with supplemental payments for my 3 children. Mind you I've worked full time for 20 years and paid SS taxes this entire time, but to me it is the same thing as being on welfare.

Well I just got home yesterday from surgery to remove the tumors on my liver, but unfortunately when the surgeons were able to actually get inside me they discovered it was inoperable. So now I'll have to talk to my oncologist again to see what my options are and how long I have left to live.

Right now I'm still healthy, but I doubt I'll ever be able to be hired as an employee again. I've been out of my field long enough that no one will hire me at a position comparable to what I used to do (I actually did put in about 20 applications to various jobs that are theoretically within driving distance of where I live and never heard back from any of them). I wish I had the ability to be an entrepenur but I've no idea of how to start or what to do or why anyone should buy anything from me. All I've ever wanted to do was science and or mathematics. Maybe if I can get healthy I can get a job teaching somewhere but when I'm going to the clinic every week for chemo that's not really possible.

So what am I to do? The only reason I signed up for SS benefits was to alleviate the pressure on my wife as being the sole breadwinner and to give us some breathing room. We have essentially no debt (the debt we have could be paid off tomorrow but I'd rather hold onto the cash I have and pay it off over time, and besides if I die it will die with me as it's in my name only) and we also have some appreciating assets tucked away for the children that I may start quietly liquidating when commodity prices get high enough, but they aren't enough right now to make a huge difference in our financial position.

But am I a freeloader for getting SS disability? I never did get any unemployment I was eligible for (and my how much hell I caught for that from family/friends) and personally I feel like I am on welfare every time I see that government check, even though I paid into the system all my adult working life. But the kids have got to have a future and your tax dollars help provide that. When I'm dead they and my wife will collect survivors benefits. I had had life insurance and disability insurance but that was through my job and terminated when it did, and I'll never be eligible for either again unless I get another job.

What would you do in my situation? Give up SS benefits and live off one income while draining the last portion of our savings until we are living paycheck-to-paycheck like most everyone else? Or just go with the reality of the system we are forced to live under and use that extra couple grand a month to do more than scrape by and to try and provide for your family after you are dead?

That's where I'm at today.



You're not a free loader. Situations like what you're in are what government safety nets are intended to be for. But then the free loaders manipulate the safety net so much that it becomes massively bloated, and unsustainable. Don't feel guilty. I would check out to see if there are some charities for people in your situation though, just in case.

But yeah, don't feel guilty. I'm 22 so I probably won't get social security benefits in my life, so when I see my grandparents getting social security for seemingly no reason, it makes me feel ripped off because honestly I need the money more than they do lol. Seriously I just think its pointless for me to pay into it just for them to get it, when I won't ever get any. I don't feel ripped off by someone in your situation, just like I don't feel ripped off by the few people out there that take welfare in a fair way. (For a short amount of time while they truly need it, and while they're really trying to find more work).

If more people were like you, and we didn't try to manage a safety net from a federal level, we wouldn't have nearly as much trouble with the safety net that has been created.

I hope you get better too. Try reading through Kevin Trudeau's book Natural Cures They Don't Want You to Know About. It doesn't really have actual cures, its more about prevention of disease, but it does have tons of good knowledge in it about health that may help you out. For example, there's research that says cancer can't survive in a body that has a ph like water, that isn't acidic or basic, or something like that. Basically if you drink a good amount of water, and avoid sugars and salts, so that your body stays watered down, supposedly its tough for cancer to form or survive.


Oh, and he rants a TON about how bad pharmaceutical companies and the FDA are lol.

Fox McCloud
04-14-2011, 01:41 AM
If you're middle-class and you're getting a tax break.....how, in the world, can that be construed as being "dependent on the government"; you would have had all the money if it weren't for the taxes, to begin with, and the government couldn't make this silly claim.

It's akin to someone robbing you, then giving 5-10% of what he stole back, at the end of each year, then claiming his job of stealing is vital to you and you're dependent on him....how ludicrous.

WilliamC
04-14-2011, 04:27 AM
Thank you justinc for your feedback. As someone who is 47 and been through a bit the only advice I'd offer a 22-year old is don't neglect your insurance, even if you are healthy and never need to see a doctor like I was for 25 years. If you have a family or dependents get level term life insurance independent of your job (that's what messed me up), and if you are working with any sort of decent salary get disability insurance through your job, and if you ever get 'lucky' and land a high salary job look into private disability insurance. It all sounds like a scam when you are young and healthy but as long as you don't buy gimmick policies it isn't.

As for alternative approaches to managing my situation I'm actively looking into them now and will likely try something other than standard treatment from here on out. Medicine, like most everything else in America, is highly politicized and not conducted in the best interest of the patient but rather in the best interest in the pharmecutical cooporations.

Otherwise, marijuana would be legal yes?

angelatc
04-14-2011, 05:56 AM
I'm a freeloader for not getting better insurance while I was employed and healthy and now being forced to rely on SS instead of a private company.

Thanks for the positive response though.

The way I look at it, it seems that you were a very responsible adult. If you hadn't been paying into social security, you would have in all likelihood carried your own insurance plan. I agree with Ayn Rand - you paid into it so you have a moral right to take the benefit.

IDefendThePlatform
04-14-2011, 06:15 AM
Even Ron Paul puts spending programs for his state into bills before he votes against them. Using the system while it's in place is not freeloading. I'd hate to see my fellow liberty lovers handicap themselves by refusing to accept SS or the like.

Thanks for your comments williamc. I think we should all keep working to change the system even while we live within it.

Freedom 4 all
04-14-2011, 09:35 AM
Not if they still can see boxes under the tree. Remember, government is magic just like Santa Clause.

Plus it's constantly watching to make sure you are being "nice" rather than "naughty."

2young2vote
04-14-2011, 09:45 AM
I'm beginning to agree with my dad more and more. The system is so corrupt and messed up that you just need to take what you can, but don't become reliant on it - that is how they get you. I took a government loan for school even though I didn't need it, and I'm going to a public school. The thing is, I could very easily stop going and go to a private school if it was shut down. I'm not reliant on government schooling, so it isn't too bad for me.

FortisKID
04-18-2011, 08:07 PM
Few Americans realize the extent of their dependency. The Census Bureau reports that in 2009 almost half (46.2 percent) of the 300 million Americans received at least one federal benefit: 46.5 million, Social Security; 42.6 million, Medicare; 42.4 million, Medicaid; 36.1 million, food stamps; 3.2 million, veterans’ benefits; 12.4 million, housing subsidies. The census list doesn’t include tax breaks. Counting those, perhaps three-quarters or more of Americans receive some sizable government benefit. For example, about 22 percent of taxpayers benefit from the home mortgage interest deduction and 43 percent from the preferential treatment of employer-provided health insurance, says the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/big-government-on-the-brink/2011/04/09/AFNcwrGD_story.html?hpid=z3


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZVPv9B-ZlM