Would you let a total stranger touch your 6 year old daughter this way?

[Anti Federalist]

No hyperbole, no yelling, just a serious question...

ETA - the orginal video was taken down, here is a copy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWExPhyPeZw&feature=player_embedded

[FrankRep]

http://www.thenewamerican.com/images/stories/AP-1-2010/girlairportscreening-t-ap.001.jpg


2010 - TSA Policies May Desensitize Children to Sexual Abuse (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/5362-tsa-policies-may-desensitize-children-to-sexual-abuse)

Experts at Child Lures Prevention charge that, in an effort to have children co-operate with the TSA screenings, the TSA is calling the airport pat-downs “a game” with the result that children who experience the enhanced pat-downs may become desensitized to sexual molestation.


2010 - Exclusive: TSA frisks groom children to cooperate with sex predators, abuse expert says (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/01/airport-patdowns-grooming-children-sex-predators-abuse-expert/)

An expert in the fight against child sexual abuse is raising the alarm about a technique the TSA is reportedly using to get children to co-operate with airport pat-downs: calling it a "game".

[heavenlyboy34]

ummmm....ick! It reminds me somewhat of how pedophiles "groom" kids to get them used to ever worse molestation. :eek:

[TNforPaul45]

:mad:

[Sola_Fide]

I would lose my cool and cause a physical confrontation.

I know myself and I just know that if my child was sexually assaulted like that in front of me, I would start throwing my fists.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Sad.

[doodle]

Yay freedom.

At least her shirt was not removed:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KdIa7KNkdQ

[ssantoro]

How far do they have to go to humiliate the public before it all blows up in their faces?

[BamaAla]

In a word, no.

[acptulsa]

Why, no, I'd call the authorities on that pedophile.

Oh, wait...

This is civilization?

[doodle]

This is civilization?

This is our war to prserve our liberties, spread freedom and stand with those who are promised to be blessed.

[Sola_Fide]

This is our war to prserve our liberties, spread freedom and stand with those who are promised to be blessed.

We get it. You hate them Joos.

I happen to think Statism would exist even in a world without Zionism.

[RideTheDirt]

hell no

[lester1/2jr]

I'm gonna be sick. why aren't there any serious proposals in congress to close bases, eliminate our presence in muslim countries etc???

[Anti Federalist]

They hate us for our freedoms

[doodle]

AquaBuddha2010, I'm not a fan of people who believe in chosen race dogma/racial supremacy. Radical Jews, radical Christians, radical Muslims or anyone else who does not believe in equality and liberty for all or supports oppression/occupation based on these or or any dogmas I would criticize.
You didn't ask me, but I will ask you, why you think these gropings are taking place?

[aGameOfThrones]

Someone should call CPS on that mom...


/S

[osan]

No hyperbole, no yelling, just a serious question...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtOMPbooFzU&feature=player_embedded


I would hurt them with great cruelty. The floor would be the last thing they ever touched.

It is time to start fighting back. It is time well past.

[Kylie]

I haven't even watched the video, but my answer would be FUCK NO!

I'd come unglued on anyone who puts their hands on myself, my children, my old people, or my animals. That includes the bastards at the airport.

[heavenlyboy34]

update: The mother of the child in this video writes in the youtube comments section:

"Cannot believe people are allowed to touch my child in this manner. The TSA should be abolished and anyone who has groped another person cited, fined and/or jailed for personal assault. I tried to stop this and was threatened with fines, jail and delay in getting to my destination. There are better ways to keep our citizens safe from terrorists. We need to find a way to keep ourselves safe from the TSA too. “Just doing their job” is an excuse used by people who do wrong."

[doodle]

Someone should call CPS on that mom...


/S

Not her fault if she HAS to trvael.

[aGameOfThrones]

Not her fault if she HAS to trvael.

Wasn't being serious :/

[doodle]

Wasn't being serious :/

Ok gotcha. /S tag is not for serious but for sarcasm I'm guessing lol

Happens to my posts all the time without the /S tag.

[Sola_Fide]

AquaBuddha2010, I'm not a fan of people who believe in chosen race dogma/racial supremacy. Radical Jews, radical Christians, radical Muslims or anyone else who does not believe in equality and liberty for all or supports oppression/occupation based on these or or any dogmas I would criticize.
You didn't ask me, but I will ask you, why you think these gropings are taking place?

There are radical atheists who don't believe in equality either, called Communists. Their god on earth, the State, has declared certain people above others.

Elitism really crosses all ideological lines. But the only sure way to combat it is to have a decidedly cultural Christianity that informs all aspects of life, including law. Western civilization was built on a Christian ethos. Equality under the law has been unknown in societies not informed by basic Christian principles.

It is the RULE OF LAW that prevents elitism, and the principle of the rule of law comes ONLY from Christianity. Read Samuel Rutherford's "Lex Rex".

[doodle]

There are radical atheists who don't believe in equality either, called Communists. Their god on earth, the State, has declared certain people above others.

Elitism really crosses all ideological lines. But the only sure way to combat it is to have a decidedly cultural Christianity that informs all aspects of life, including law. Western civilization was built on a Christian ethos. Equality under the law has been unknown in societies not informed by basic Christian principles.

It is the RULE OF LAW that prevents elitism, and the principle of the rule of law comes ONLY from Christianity. Read Samuel Rutherford's "Lex Rex".

You make a very compelling argument but I agree with first part of your post here, no single camp has monpoly over elitist mindest. We can discuss the second part in Relogion section as it might derail this thread that is on a very important issue of diminishing civil liberties. But causes for this we should understand or we won't be able solve this problem.


This is our war to prserve our liberties, spread freedom and stand with those who are promised to be blessed.

My proposed theory was that increased fear mongering and diminished liberties are result of foreign interventions, elective wars, propping up oppressive dictators and financial/military support of Israel that facilitates its occupation of Palestinians. All that creates blowbacks.

You did not seem to like these reasons or misinterpreted them? If you disagree with above reasons, what do you think are the causes of diminished liberties?

[Dr.3D]

Well of course I would tell her she was being sexually molested so she could be traumatized for the rest of her life.

[Tal]

I hope that when the US is finally forced to face fiscal reality that one of the first casualties to the budget cuts will be the Department of Homeland Security, the name in itself sounds stupid, kill that department please.

[Matthew Zak]

That poor kid now thinks its okay for random strangers to touch her crotch, chest, and put their fingers in her pants.

Good work, gov.

[lester1/2jr]

People need to stop seperating this whole thing from our foreign policy. We are doing this becauee we are afraid of muslim terrorists because we are occupying their countries for NO GOOD REASON.

[eOs]

This pisses me off, and I think I hear what it appears to be the father, "they're just doing their job." Yea by violating your 6 year olds entire body. What a fucking pussy of a dad.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

There are radical atheists who don't believe in equality either, called Communists. Their god on earth, the State, has declared certain people above others.

Elitism really crosses all ideological lines. But the only sure way to combat it is to have a decidedly cultural Christianity that informs all aspects of life, including law. Western civilization was built on a Christian ethos. Equality under the law has been unknown in societies not informed by basic Christian principles.

It is the RULE OF LAW that prevents elitism, and the principle of the rule of law comes ONLY from Christianity. Read Samuel Rutherford's "Lex Rex".

If a group of concepts has any merit they would each have merit on their own. If you require concepts of religion to sell other concepts one must conclude other concepts that could not stand on their own merits are baseless in and of themselves. Therefore religion can not enhance a concept that is baseless.

[AZKing]

I feel bad for the kid, but anyone who still flies under these circumstances should expect that treatment.

Nobody should fly anymore. Use VOIP/video conferencing if you need to go on a business trip or want to talk to family. Drive everywhere else. My business partners and myself started doing this before the TSA even got so radical. It's cheaper anyway.

You'll see how fast the TSA drops their crap when the airlines and airports get together because they're not making any money anymore.

[eOs]

I feel bad for the kid, but anyone who still flies under these circumstances should expect that treatment.

Nobody should fly anymore. Use VOIP/video conferencing if you need to go on a business trip or want to talk to family. Drive everywhere else. My business partners and myself started doing this before the TSA even got so radical. It's cheaper anyway.

You'll see how fast the TSA drops their crap when the airlines and airports get together because they're not making any money anymore.

Yes, that is a great idea but you know, this family on video is in the majority...they simply don't see a stranger touching their 6 year old daughter in that way as bad...after all it's keeping them safe!

[Theocrat]

Yes, that is a great idea but you know, this family on video is in the majority...they simply don't see a stranger touching their 6 year old daughter in that way as bad...after all it's keeping them safe!

And to think, all of this is happening because the terrorists hate us for our freedoms. :rolleyes:

[Dr.3D]

Well, with all of the added "security" all around the country, it sort of looks like the terrorists won.

[AZKing]

Yes, that is a great idea but you know, this family on video is in the majority...they simply don't see a stranger touching their 6 year old daughter in that way as bad...after all it's keeping them safe!

It's unfortunate that it's true. Whatever. A TSA agent groping me is one thing; I'm a consenting adult. I'd never let them get anywhere near my kids. That's why I feel bad for the kid, though. I couldn't care less if an adult lets themselves get groped in an airport; they're consenting to it. Same thing with getting searched by a cop who then finds a bag of marijuana in your car. It's not yours, but you consented so you lose.

Airlines are already seeing record lows for revenues. I'm sure the TSA isn't helping.

[aGameOfThrones]

Video is gone. Perhaps the author didn't want to answer any more comments from people, she was getting annoyed from the few comments I saw from her.

[aGameOfThrones]

Yes, that is a great idea but you know, this family on video is in the majority...they simply don't see a stranger touching their 6 year old daughter in that way as bad...after all it's keeping them safe!

One of the comments I read from her was she getting threaten with fines etc., and that she tried to make them pass her kid through the metal detector(other means) but the TSA wanted to touch her kid.

[Anti Federalist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBwXkTO55ns

[MelissaWV]

I feel bad for the kid, but anyone who still flies under these circumstances should expect that treatment.

Nobody should fly anymore. Use VOIP/video conferencing if you need to go on a business trip or want to talk to family. Drive everywhere else. My business partners and myself started doing this before the TSA even got so radical. It's cheaper anyway.

You'll see how fast the TSA drops their crap when the airlines and airports get together because they're not making any money anymore.

I might try driving to my family reunion later this year if they come up with a satisfactory underwater car.

[Anti Federalist]

While searching for a cached version of this video (there may be one on facebook for anybody who has an account and wants to look) I came across this Freeper gem:


Perhaps you misunderstand.

TSA was created specifically for ONE reason.

“We were created in the wake of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, to strengthen the security of the nation’s transportation systems.”

So here’s the deal.

Wipe out the radical moslems “over there”. Take out as many as necessary to complete this mission. Even if we have to kill them ALL. Profile any person of raghead origin in this country. Any of them with ANY ties to any radicalism, well, shoot them. And start deporting the rest.

Once the “moslem problem” is dealt with there really is NO USE having a TSA, Homeland Security, or a Patriot Act.

Let’s start today.

6 posted on Saturday, April 09, 2011 5:42:08 PM by bigheadfred (Beat me, Bite me...Make Me Write Bad Checks)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And that, in a nutshell, is why Ron Paul will never win the GOP primary nomination.

That's the majority GOP position, even if they don't say it in polite society.

[Anti Federalist]

Found a copy of the video...

I'm not sure what the "drug testing" is about, I can post, but can't watch videos unless I wait a half an hour to load.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWExPhyPeZw&feature=player_embedded

[AuH20]

While searching for a cached version of this video (there may be one on facebook for anybody who has an account and wants to look) I came across this Freeper gem:



And that, in a nutshell, is why Ron Paul will never win the GOP primary nomination.

That's the majority GOP position, even if they don't say it in polite society.

I think that's a minority position. Sure there are some lunatics.

[Romulus]

That father who videotaped his wife and daughter getting felt up like that is a huge fucking pussy of a man.

THAT is why they do it - because we allow it.

[doodle]

Great thread by OP.

This video is now the top headline on Drudge report.

Even though Drudge has been in bed with neocons now and then, it has some libertarian leanings.


Edited, it was top headline few hours ago, but now it is moved down to second place, been replaced by this :

"U.N. PLAN: GIVE BUGS, TREES SAME RIGHTS AS HUMANS" , another RP Forums thread that was posted here yesterday :)

[Captain Shays]

Can some one tell me what would happen if I saw that happening to my kid and said "enough. we just won't fly let us leave". ?

Would they allow us to leave or chase us down, thrown us in jail with our kids and call DHS as if we're trying to overthrown the government? Really. What happens when you just say kiss my Ass you authoritarian scumbag. Let me feel your wife and daughter first.? Sometimes I hate coming to RP forums because you guys keep finding stuff that pisses me off to no end. Don't come near me now. I'm looking for somebody to kick

[AZKing]

I might try driving to my family reunion later this year if they come up with a satisfactory underwater car.

I understand that flying is the only choice when going overseas, but staying at home is cheaper and safer anyway ;)

[ChaosControl]

Sometimes I really wish there was a hell. Sickos like the TSA and those who support them don't get punished like they should in this life, there needs to be justice at some point...

[Anti Federalist]

Can some one tell me what would happen if I saw that happening to my kid and said "enough. we just won't fly let us leave". ?

Would they allow us to leave or chase us down, thrown us in jail with our kids and call DHS as if we're trying to overthrown the government? Really. What happens when you just say kiss my Ass you authoritarian scumbag. Let me feel your wife and daughter first.? Sometimes I hate coming to RP forums because you guys keep finding stuff that pisses me off to no end. Don't come near me now. I'm looking for somebody to kick

Well, your mood isn't going to improve then...


$11,000 fine, arrest possible for some who refuse airport scans and pat downs

November 20, 2010

By John Lantigua, Palm Beach Post

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2010-11-20/business/sfl-airport-scans-pat-downs-refual-20101121_1_tsa-airport-checkpoint-sari-koshetz

If you don't want to pass through an airport scanner that allows security agents to see an image of your naked body or to undergo the alternative, a thorough manual search, you may have to find another way to travel this holiday season.

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is warning that any would-be commercial airline passenger who enters an airport checkpoint and then refuses to undergo the method of inspection designated by TSA will not be allowed to fly and also will not be permitted to simply leave the airport.

That person will have to remain on the premises to be questioned by the TSA and possibly by local law enforcement. Anyone refusing faces fines up to $11,000 and possible arrest.

"Once a person submits to the screening process, they can not just decide to leave that process," says Sari Koshetz, regional TSA spokesperson, based in Miami.

Koshetz said such passengers would be questioned "until it is determined that they don't pose a threat" to the public

[teacherone]

Can some one tell me what would happen if I saw that happening to my kid and said "enough. we just won't fly let us leave". ?

Would they allow us to leave or chase us down, thrown us in jail with our kids and call DHS as if we're trying to overthrown the government? Really. What happens when you just say kiss my Ass you authoritarian scumbag. Let me feel your wife and daughter first.? Sometimes I hate coming to RP forums because you guys keep finding stuff that pisses me off to no end. Don't come near me now. I'm looking for somebody to kick

think it's a 10,000 dollar fine

---- never mind 11,000


“Once a person submits to the screening process, they can not just decide to leave” warned Sari Koshetz, a TSA spokesperson. TSA officials say that anyone refusing both the “full body scanners” and the “enhanced pat down” procedures will be taken into custody.

Once there the detainees will not only be barred from flying, but will be held indefinitely as suspected terrorists, face fines of up to $11,000 and may also be turned over to local police. One sheriff’s office said they were already preparing to handle a large number of detainees and plan to treat them as terror suspects, held until they are convinced they don’t pose a terror threat.

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/11/19/tsa-travelers-who-refuse-scanning-cant-leave-will-be-fined/

[Wesker1982]

I don't know how these TSA workers sleep at night.

[Mini-Me]

I don't know how these TSA workers sleep at night.

The Bad Sleep Well (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/The_Bad_Sleep_Well).

[heavenlyboy34]

That father who videotaped his wife and daughter getting felt up like that is a huge fucking pussy of a man.

THAT is why they do it - because we allow it.

Maybe. If there were thugs nearby who would obviously tackle/taze/shoot him if he didn't submit, then he wasn't unreasonable. However, if he had every opportunity to stop this, he was indeed a coward. Regardless, we now have this video as evidence of the disturbing nature of the TSA goons, so at least some good came of it.

[heavenlyboy34]

I don't know how these TSA workers sleep at night.

I suspect desensitization training like the military usually gets destroys their conscience. (kind of like Clockwork Orange)

[Echoes]

And we're supposed to be the "leaders of the free world" ?

This is a disgrace.

And honestly, i place more of the blame on the American ppl for allowing this, it could come to end if everyone flooded the streets in mass protests. But i guess molesting kids is accepted behavior when the divine State does it.

Please fly only if you absolutely must, boycotting and word of mouth (hopefully) will have an effect at some point.

[LibertyRevolution]

I wish everyone would just say that's enough and stop flying. Please everyone, just stop flying.

[Philhelm]

I can't take it anymore. I feel like a caged animal that is ready to explode in a fit of rage.

[Romulus]

I wish everyone would just say that's enough and stop flying. Please everyone, just stop flying.

Why, so they can come to the bus stop, train station (already there) or the street corner? Dont stop flying - resist this.

[teacherone]

I can't take it anymore. I feel like a caged animal that is ready to explode in a fit of rage.

turn off the internet and read some calvin and hobbes.

it's not as bad as our little boards make it out to be.

[aravoth]

No hyperbole, no yelling, just a serious question...



No.

[Lucille]

That father who videotaped his wife and daughter getting felt up like that is a huge fucking pussy of a man.

THAT is why they do it - because we allow it.

This.

Ilana Mercer (http://barelyablog.com/?p=36717): "By the way, WHERE ARE THE MEN in all this?"

Fred's friend Bob (http://www.fredoneverything.net/Bob.shtml) has the answer: “They’re not the same Americans now. They crave authority,” he said. “They lust after regulation. They love being frisked, x-rayed, and felt-up at airports because it gives them a false sense of significance.”

[heavenlyboy34]

And we're supposed to be the "leaders of the free world" ?

This is a disgrace.

And honestly, i place more of the blame on the American ppl for allowing this, it could come to end if everyone flooded the streets in mass protests. But i guess molesting kids is accepted behavior when the divine State does it.

Please fly only if you absolutely must, boycotting and word of mouth (hopefully) will have an effect at some point.

I don't entirely blame "the people". Plenty of us are against the police state.

The regime does these things pretty much on a whim. Plus, the police state is such that a riot would incite the cops to bring out the heavy arsenal-tanks, tear gas bombs, etc. There are some people to blame though-the ones who insist on supporting the cops, the regime, the military, etc. I hope that greater exposure of police and state crimes via webbernet and other media will change this.

[heavenlyboy34]

turn off the internet and read some calvin and hobbes.

it's not as bad as our little boards make it out to be.

REALITY DENIER!! ;) lulz
http://uncertaindogma.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/calvin-and-hobbes-silence.jpg

[chudrockz]

Might I be the first to congratulate you, Mr. Bin Laden:

You won.

[Anti Federalist]

REALITY DENIER!! ;) lulz
http://uncertaindogma.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/calvin-and-hobbes-silence.jpg

+rep for the best comic strip that ever was or ever will be, closely followed by Bloom County.

[Anti Federalist]

Might I be the first to congratulate you, Mr. Bin Laden:

You won.

If he wasn't dead for the last seven years, I'm sure he'd thank you.

War is Peace.

[heavenlyboy34]

+rep for the best comic strip that ever was or ever will be, closely followed by Bloom County.

I agree. I had a few of the anthology books when I was a youngin. Hilarious stuff, it was. I wish it was still in syndication. :(

[Anti Federalist]

///

[dannno]

OMG, I finally watched, it was worse than I thought... I couldn't take it, I thought it was over half way through, but they kept going on and on and on.... I just about had to vomit... and the girl looked horrified afterwards...

[LibertyRevolution]

one of the top stories on CNN today...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/04/12/tsa.pat.down/index.html?eref=rss_topstories


Derionne Pollard told WWL she flies often with her 4-year-old son. Shown the video of the girl's pat-down, Pollard said, "I think we spend a lot more time getting ourselves inflamed about things that aren't really necessary. That took all of, what, 20 seconds to get done? So suck it up. It's a part of travel right now."


TSA says children are used to carry explosives in other places, so we have to check the children too....

[Deborah K]

Join "Boycott Flying" on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Flying/126801010710392?ref=ts

It's time to organize protests against TSA.

[Roxi]

I just watched it while my 9 year old was sitting next to me. She said "Is this in China?" I said "nope, right here in America" She said "It's hard to believe this isn't China" :D

[Mini-Me]

This.

Ilana Mercer (http://barelyablog.com/?p=36717): "By the way, WHERE ARE THE MEN in all this?"

Fred's friend Bob (http://www.fredoneverything.net/Bob.shtml) has the answer: “They’re not the same Americans now. They crave authority,” he said. “They lust after regulation. They love being frisked, x-rayed, and felt-up at airports because it gives them a false sense of significance.”

There's still plenty of testosterone to go around. The problem is that the government has found a way to make the "manly men" identify with authority and feel strong when the government flexes its muscles. They've taken all of the "manliness," perverted it, and channeled it into enforcing government authority. Most of the testosterone-filled men are too busy killing unarmed prisoners, taking war trophies, torturing detainees, or enforcing the LAW to take a step back. They're "staying the course." They aren't complicit because they're overly feminized, but because they've already been indoctrinated to be on the wrong side. Sure, there are plenty of frightened pansies who crave authority and someone to protect them, but the rest of the guys crave authority simply because they've been made to identify with it.

[AndrewD]

So when your in this situation and you object, flat out refuse...where do you go? I mean I know your not going to fly that day, they won't let you. But who do you call? Do you speak to the TSA agent's supervisor? What if you don't have a lawyer?

How/Where do you complain, and what happens?

[Andrew-Austin]

That poor kid now thinks its okay for random strangers to touch her crotch, chest, and put their fingers in her pants.

Good work, gov.

She was already being told it is okay for the government to steal from and coerce people.

[Lucille]

So when your in this situation and you object, flat out refuse...where do you go? I mean I know your not going to fly that day, they won't let you. But who do you call? Do you speak to the TSA agent's supervisor? What if you don't have a lawyer?

How/Where do you complain, and what happens?

Penn Gillette (http://www.pennandteller.com/03/coolstuff/penniphile/roadpennfederalvip.html) called the cops on them.


If at any time you believe a TSA screener may have gone too far (http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2010/11/23/travel-tips-to-avoid-tsa-gate-rape/), you have the right to make a criminal complaint and/or a citizen’s arrest of someone who assaults you, and/or to sue them for damages.

Most major airlines are obligated to provide a full and unconditional refund if the airline refuses to transport you for failure to agree to a pat-down or body scan. If the airline refuses to give you a full refund, you may opt to sue them for damages and request that the U.S. Department of Transportation investigate and fine them.

Good points, Mimi-Me. The women are just as bad though.

[Deborah K]

Don't touch my junk: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/11/tsa-investigating-passenger/

[chudrockz]

Join "Boycott Flying" on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Flying/126801010710392?ref=ts

It's time to organize protests against TSA.

Just "liked" that group on Facebook.

I have not flown in over ten years, and I will not, until the TSA is gone. I'll protest actively as well. Bunch of sick, fascist bastards.

[Johnnymac]

im waiting for them to do this to train stations, just wait it will happen

[Deborah K]

Just "liked" that group on Facebook.

I have not flown in over ten years, and I will not, until the TSA is gone. I'll protest actively as well. Bunch of sick, fascist bastards.

Last time I flew was in 08 to D.C. to help organize the Revolution March. Next time I fly will be on a private charter, if I ever do again.

If ever there was a venue where our rights are so blatently being violated it is at the airport. When in human history, have people been searched and felt up in order to get from point A to point B? Anyone?

[heavenlyboy34]

update: the parents were interviewed about the incident, and the vid is on yahoo: http://news.yahoo.com/video/politics-15749652/tsa-frisks-6-year-old-parents-speak-out-24890589#video=24890589

They are disturbingly unbothered by what the pervert agent did. :mad: The father in particular strikes me as a coward.

[Deborah K]

update: the parents were interviewed about the incident, and the vid is on yahoo: http://news.yahoo.com/video/politics-15749652/tsa-frisks-6-year-old-parents-speak-out-24890589#video=24890589

They are disturbingly unbothered by what the pervert agent did. :mad: The father in particular strikes me as a coward.

That's weird because aren't they the ones who recorded the event and put it on tube? (didn't watch your link)

[Romulus]

So when your in this situation and you object, flat out refuse...where do you go? I mean I know your not going to fly that day, they won't let you. But who do you call? Do you speak to the TSA agent's supervisor? What if you don't have a lawyer?

How/Where do you complain, and what happens?

You call local law enforcement and have the TSA arrested for groping your children.


im waiting for them to do this to train stations, just wait it will happen

Already has.


That's weird because aren't they the ones who recorded the event and put it on tube? (didn't watch your link)

From what I know, they asked to film and said no, but someone else did. But the she admits to posting it to get 'feedback' online to see how ppl reacted?

[aGameOfThrones]

im waiting for them to do this to train stations, just wait it will happen

TSA harasses/searches 9 yr old after riding at Savannah train station (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?282800-TSA-harasses-searches-9-yr-old-after-riding-at-Savannah-train-station&highlight=TSA+train+station)

[aGameOfThrones]

TSA under fire for enhanced patdown of 6-year-old girl (http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2011/04/tsa-screening-controversy/155793/1)


USAToday's take on it.

[Anti Federalist]

I can't give all the rep that post deserves.

I really do look forward to your posts MM, glad to see you around again.


There's still plenty of testosterone to go around. The problem is that the government has found a way to make the "manly men" identify with authority and feel strong when the government flexes its muscles. They've taken all of the "manliness," perverted it, and channeled it into enforcing government authority. Most of the testosterone-filled men are too busy killing unarmed prisoners, taking war trophies, torturing detainees, or enforcing the LAW to take a step back. They're "staying the course." They aren't complicit because they're overly feminized, but because they've already been indoctrinated to be on the wrong side. Sure, there are plenty of frightened pansies who crave authority and someone to protect them, but the rest of the guys crave authority simply because they've been made to identify with it.

[osan]

"Just doing their job"

== "just following orders"

Sieg fucking heil.

Fight back. En masse.

[AGRP]

The parents allowed them to molest her. There's probably 50,000 cases like this for every one publicized case. Now, now child, don't cry. It would be rude of us to interrupt their "standard procedures."

We're not too far away from handing our children to men on rail cars.

[osan]

It is the RULE OF LAW that prevents elitism, and the principle of the rule of law comes ONLY from Christianity. Read Samuel Rutherford's "Lex Rex".

Actually, no. It is the rule of principle that does the job. Law is capricious because it is a human deal and humans are, by and large, capricious. Principle may be derived by rational means and upon bases whose arbitrariness is far more difficult to argue. Law is most often yanked out of some miscreant's backside for the purpose of achieving a goal in satisfaction of a desire that cannot be justified by the standards of such rationally derived principles as govern our relationships.

Rule of law is shit. Rule of properly derived principle is just.

[osan]

We're not too far away from handing our children to men on rail cars.


This statement is frighteningly true. Anyone for whom this is not uncommonly disturbing is not giving it due consideration.

[Pericles]

Do that to my daughter and that would be the last thing that person did on planet Earth.

[Sola_Fide]

Actually, no. It is the rule of principle that does the job. Law is capricious because it is a human deal and humans are, by and large, capricious. Principle may be derived by rational means and upon bases whose arbitrariness is far more difficult to argue. Law is most often yanked out of some miscreant's backside for the purpose of achieving a goal in satisfaction of a desire that cannot be justified by the standards of such rationally derived principles as govern our relationships.

Rule of law is shit. Rule of properly derived principle is just.


The idea that law is a human invention is an idea completely foreign to the founders and the founding generation. Read some of the early charters and early state constitutions. Your head will spin, because they appealed to an authority higher than the State (God), and they appealed to a law higher than that of the State (God's law).

If law is human device, then "the king is law". But as Rutherford so clearly showed, the "law is king". There is a law that binds all men, even rulers. Law is above the State, it does not issue from the State.

This insane idea that law is arbitrary and human is the foundational principle for every tyranny that has ever existed.

[JCLibertarian]

I saw them doing the same thing to an elderly woman in a Spokane Airport who was crippled, it really infuriated me. If i wasn't blocked by sound-proof glass, I would have given them a big f*** you. If they try to attempt to do this to my daughter, I would physically intervene prior to any such action and demand they provide specific and articulable facts(that is the legal standard for reasonable suspicion) as to how my 6 year old daughter is a security risk. If they couldn't and tried to proceed, I would attempt to make a citizen's arrest for sexual assault of a minor.

[Mini-Me]

The idea that law is a human invention is an idea completely foreign to the founders and the founding generation. Read some of the early charters and early state constitutions. Your head will spin, because they appealed to an authority higher than the State (God), and they appealed to a law higher than that of the State (God's law).

If law is human device, then "the king is law". But as Rutherford so clearly showed, the "law is king". There is a law that binds all men, even rulers. Law is above the State, it does not issue from the State.

This insane idea that law is arbitrary and human is the foundational principle for every tyranny that has ever existed.

I suppose it depends on how you define the term law. I think most people are using the term in the same way the state uses it, i.e. if it's codified into "law" by legislators, it's law...at least if it's Constitutional. However, you seem to be using the term "law" more like we'd use the term "rights:" That is, the term only applies to legitimate individual rights corresponding to self-ownership and negative liberty, not to just any old privilege or concept that some idiot calls a "right," like the "right of air to be clean." ;)

The term "right" lends itself well to this understanding, because merely calling something a right implies a moral affirmation of the right's validity. You have a right to not be killed, because it is "right." ;) Calling something a right is inherently a claim to the legitimacy of that right, whereas most people use the term "law" in a much less value-laden way. You might be the first person I've seen use the word "law" like this. I'm not knocking you or anything, but I'm curious what led you to your reasoning.

[osan]

The idea that law is a human invention is an idea completely foreign to the founders and the founding generation.

The structure of the federal government as specified in the Constitution would seem to indicate otherwise. Were your thesis correct, it would follow that the whole of the right and proper Law would have been embodied in that document, thereby rendering unnecessary the legislative branch entirely. I doubt that God changes its mind in the manners to which we have borne witness here. If we accept this as true, then legislation is not needed because the Law is complete, requiring only application on a case by case basis.

This would, therefore, appear to indicate that either the framers were not quite so smart as many make them to have been, or not quite so glowing angelic. To my eyes the framers were pretty sharp, which would indicate their goals were perhaps not so pristinely innocent and noble as we have been lead to believe. Jefferson, Madison, Mason, and so on were smart men. They knew their history and they knew human nature - all this being abundantly apparent in the various writings of the day. If we accept this to be the case, then the motivations behind the manner in which they contrived the Constitution come into some serious question.

Insofar as "Law" is concerned (I prefer to use "principle" as it connotes something superior to mere law), I'm with you. I firmly believe that the proper and right principles that underpin our existences as individuals and by extension as groups thereof are readily derived in reason and through the acceptance of but a single intellectually tractable premise: an equal claim to life. Other political philosophies such as Marxism/socialism are founded on arbitrarily convoluted, complicated, and misleading bodies of assumptions, the acceptance of which require either substantial mental gymnastics or a level of intellectual exercise approaching that of brain-death. It is precisely these bodies of often warm-and-fuzzy sounding premises that, when examined with care and some skill, show themselves for the blatant frauds that they are, the systems they underpin being nothing but the logical extensions of the same fraud.




Read some of the early charters and early state constitutions. Your head will spin, because they appealed to an authority higher than the State (God), and they appealed to a law higher than that of the State (God's law).

One needs by necessity exercise extreme caution in the interpretation of their use of "God". I do not for a moment believe they were referring to the so-called "christian" notion of God, nor that of anyone else. It is perhaps impossible to know for certain what they were thinking with any great certainty on this point, but I seriously doubt it had much to do with any of the common religions of the day.

Take care in assuming a christian orientation here, if that is your temptation. It is as readily assumable that the islamic notion of God and God's Law are what is meant - or Hindu, or... take your pick.


If law is human device, then "the king is law". But as Rutherford so clearly showed, the "law is king". There is a law that binds all men, even rulers. Law is above the State, it does not issue from the State.

Agreed. Again, the only modification I would offer is to substitute "principle" for "law", the latter too much connoting human origins and arbitrariness, the former implying a substantially scientific result based in reason and observation.


This insane idea that law is arbitrary and human is the foundational principle for every tyranny that has ever existed.

And that is why it must be disguised - dressed up with pretty sounding ideas, words, pictures, and ceremonies so that people will accept them as something they clearly are not. Such work takes advantage of the fundamental human desire to do good by twisting and perverting it into evil. The concept of "equality" has been very utterly and effectively morphed into a tiger of a very different stripe in the minds of a great many people, for example. Equal claim, and the concomitant respect and restraint that it implies, has been perverted into the belief in equality of outcomes as being the great goal to be realized regardless of whose rights are trampled.

Welcome to Bizarro.

A special place.

A friendly place.

[Anti Federalist]

That's worth rep ^^^^