NH - New PPP poll shows Trump right behind Romney at 21 percent.

[Anti Federalist]

WTF?

WTF are these people?

And who is PPP polling in my state, I mean, I know the NH GOP is as hidebound as the rest of the country, if not more so, but honestly, Trump at 21 percent!!??

God help us.



Poll: Trump Trails Romney By Just Six Points In NH Primary

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/poll-trump-trails-romney-by-just-six-points-in-nh-primary.php

In the poll, 27% of respondents said Romney was their top choice, while 21% went with Trump. Newt Gingrich and Mike Huckabee tied for third at 12% each, followed by Ron Paul (9%) and Sarah Palin (7%).

[kah13176]

At least we beat Palin. Everyone says we're making headway, but our poll numbers have not changed in years. They're always around 7-12%

[ItsTime]

You have to be shitting me.

[Theocrat]

John McCain won the NH Primary back in 2008, so that poll result doesn't surprise me. I guess they would rather die than live free. [lol]

[Anti Federalist]

John McCain won the NH Primary back in 2008, so that poll result doesn't surprise me. I guess they would rather die than live free. [lol]

I've always questioned that.

I was there in Concord for the recounts, saw the tampered, sloppy chain of custody for ballots.

And there is not a single person I know that has ever admitted to voting for McCain in the primary.

Either it's conspiracy or an extreme disconnect between blocs of people in NH.

[Brett85]

I think a better question is, "why in the world do 27% of voters support Mitt Romney?"

[Anti Federalist]

I think a better question is, "why in the world do 27% of voters support Mitt Romney?"

The fine, wavy, full head of hair.

[jmdrake]

I've always questioned that.

I was there in Concord for the recounts, saw the tampered, sloppy chain of custody for ballots.

And there is not a single person I know that has ever admitted to voting for McCain in the primary.

Either it's conspiracy or an extreme disconnect between blocs of people in NH.

Or maybe Trump is picking up the "conspiracy theory" votes. For all of the chicken littles who say "Don't talk about extreme stuff (like Obama's birth certificate) because you'll hurt Ron Paul"....

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3_UVz8xPCo13zLEUfZVmS4STv8MCLi mISxG9VPb3s8DMd-yxl

[Anti Federalist]

Or maybe Trump is picking up the "conspiracy theory" votes. For all of the chicken littles who say "Don't talk about extreme stuff (like Obama's birth certificate) because you'll hurt Ron Paul"....

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3_UVz8xPCo13zLEUfZVmS4STv8MCLi mISxG9VPb3s8DMd-yxl

From the article:


Trump has stepped up his campaign rhetoric in recent weeks, hitting talk shows and, in an appeal to birthers, asking to see President Obama's birth certificate. That conspiracy talk seems to have worked for him in New Hampshire, as he garnered the most support from birthers among the slate of GOP candidates tested in the poll. Twenty-two percent of voters who questioned Obama's citizenship broke for Trump in the poll, more than the 21% who went for Romney.

Got some more of that crow to go around? I think you'll need a lot of it.

[speciallyblend]

they just skipped ron paul at 9% and listed tim pawlenty 4% and no mention of ron paul on the ppp nh on lawrence o,donnell talk about liars as he tries to say rand pauls staffs lies and misleads! this kinda sht makes me want go turn the channel on tvs at best buy to msnbc and start hitting them with baseball bats!!!

[qh4dotcom]

And who is PPP polling in my state, I mean, I know the NH GOP is as hidebound as the rest of the country, if not more so, but honestly, Trump at 21 percent!!??

In case you all don't get it, asking Obama for his birth certificate is probably the main reason why Trump surged in the polls and now has 21% in New Hampshire.

[Teaser Rate]

I think a better question is, "why in the world do 27% of voters support Mitt Romney?"

Because he’s very well-educated, accomplished in both the public and private sector and articulate in delivering the message most GOP primary voters want to hear?

[Brett85]

Because he’s very well-educated, accomplished in both the public and private sector and articulate in delivering the message most GOP primary voters want to hear?

So most GOP voters want to hear about how Romneycare was such a great accomplishment and about how Bush was right to pass No Child Left Behind and the Medicare Prescription Drug Bill?

[Romulus]

Yucko the clown could get angry and demand Obumbles papers and voters would support him.

[Anti Federalist]

Because he’s very well-educated, accomplished in both the public and private sector and articulate in delivering the message most GOP primary voters want to hear?

Slick salesmanship goes a long way.

[Teaser Rate]

So most GOP voters want to hear about how Romneycare was such a great accomplishment and about how Bush was right to pass No Child Left Behind and the Medicare Prescription Drug Bill?

I doubt most voters are sophisticated enough to care about negligible things like policy initiatives and legislative records. Romney looks and sounds good, and that's enough for most people. (Like it was enough when Obama got elected)

[Teaser Rate]

Slick salesmanship goes a long way.

Yes it can!

[RonPaulFanInGA]

In case you all don't get it, asking Obama for his birth certificate is probably the main reason why Trump surged in the polls and now has 21% in New Hampshire.

Donald Trump, along with any other outspoken 'birther', will not be elected President in November 2012.

[Anti Federalist]

Yes it can!

I got to hand it to him, I'm close enough in NH to know what his record was in Mass. - abortion funding, state mandated purchase of health insurance, increases in fees and taxes, increased gun control, an expansion (although I'm not sure how large off the top of my head) of state government, the list is quite long.

If he can sell that to the GOP, then he is one hell of salesman or the GOP electorate is dumb as bag of hammers.

Probably both.

Would the forum hate me, if it came down to Obummer v. Mutt, if I voted for Obama?

I have a personal reason for this...Mutt's summer home in NH is uncomfortably close to my home town.

Life will become a living hell for people living in the area when he's around if he becomes president, what with crowds of people, media and swarms of everfucking cops of every shape and sort, hut hutting around all over the place.

Just ask people in Kennebunkport what they think of Bush.

Ughhhhhhh...

[qh4dotcom]

Would the forum hate me, if it came down to Obummer v. Mutt, if I voted for Obama?


Yes....don't vote then or vote for the RP endorsed third party candidate

"If you vote and you elect dishonest incompetent people and they get into office and screw everything up well you're responsible for what they have
done, you caused the problem, you voted them in, you have no right to complain. I am in no way responsible for what
these people have done and have every right to complain as loud as I want about the mess YOU created that I had nothing to do with"
-George Carlin
http://www.noob.us/humor/george-carlin-voting/

[Anti Federalist]

Bah, between Mitt and Barak, there would be no serious change in policy at the federal level, just like there was none between Bush and Obama.

I just want to keep the festering DC machine out of my backyard.


Yes....don't vote then or vote for the RP endorsed third party candidate

"If you vote and you elect dishonest incompetent people and they get into office and screw everything up well you're responsible for what they have
done, you caused the problem, you voted them in, you have no right to complain. I am in no way responsible for what
these people have done and have every right to complain as loud as I want about the mess YOU created that I had nothing to do with"
-George Carlin
http://www.noob.us/humor/george-carlin-voting/

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

WTF?

WTF are these people?


You have to be shitting me.


I think a better question is, "why in the world do 27% of voters support Mitt Romney?"

I was reflecting on the definition of insanity and then seen this post:


At least we beat Palin. Everyone says we're making headway, but our poll numbers have not changed in years. They're always around 7-12%

There you have it... At least we beat Palin!

[Dreamofunity]

If people are willing to vote for a protectionist douche bag over the Birther issue, we're doomed.

[jmdrake]

Donald Trump, along with any other outspoken 'birther', will not be elected President in November 2012.

Maybe not. But barring Obama actually releasing a real birth certificate, there is a better than even chance that a "softspoken" birther will win. Especially if Obama's popularity continues to take a nosedive. Most "non-birthers" don't care enough about the issue to vote based on it. And all birthers are against Obama by definition. Do the math.

[One Last Battle!]

Is this really a bad result for us? Trump probably isn't running, and if he does he won't do especially well in general (besides NH, that is).

Anyway, it shows Paul doing very well in all situations (especially with no Palin or Huck), and Romney's support can really only go down from this point (especially considering the skeletons in his closet)

[Badger Paul]

"Paul- his favorability numbers are better than Gingrich, Huckabee, and Palin's and he has a double digit level of support in almost every match up we looked at, including a second place finish over Gingrich when you take Huckabee and Palin out of the mix.

This is what says it all and this is why RP should run in 2012, because he has a good chance of winning. Don't worry about Trump. Those of us who caught his act in 2000 working for Buchanan know he isn't serious. A New York columnist said it best (I think it was Liz Smith) "If Trump runs for President he's going to run as the head of the Bullsh*t Party ticket."

Look, we have things in our favor now. Huckabee's people from four years ago aren't waiting for him to make up his mind so they're abandoning him. Even if he does run he has to start from scratch and that's not something he has the money for nor is very good at. If Palin does jump in all she does is split the vote with Bachmann (who I do believe is a serious candidate). Pawlenty will split the vote with Romney and Romney may not even contest Iowa. Living in western Wisconsin and knowing T'Paw well I'm not worried about him either and as for Gingrich, I put him in the Trump category. The minute he announces he runs the minute his "campaign" crashes. He's not a good retail politician, hasn't run for anything since 1998 and the media will have fun kicking him around. Nor am I worried about Barbour either since I doubt he can win a state above the Mason-Dixon line.

If we win Iowa, and I think we can given the field and given what we have to start with, you come into New Hampshire with a head of steam and built-in support base. You beat Romney there and you have the momentum to win in Nevada, in South Carolina, at least be competitive in Florida and Michigan, and then finish Romney off on Super Tuesday by winning New York, California, Illinois and New Jersey, which we can do if we get those early wins, and then win in Wisconsin and Texas the week after that.

Momentum is what wins major party nominations, early momentum. You get that and you can win anything and unlike the other candidates we have supporters all over the country who will ready to go if there's a campaign to work for and we'll gain more supporters if there's a winning campaign bandwagon for them to jump on.

[Humanae Libertas]

Trumper the birther just digging the hole deeper for the RepubliCON party.

[devil21]

I call total bullshit on this poll. Im 100% convinced these results are COMPLETELY fabricated. Remember, never trust media because they work to form opinion, not report it. This reeks of a weak attempt to shape NH voters. There's just flat out no-fuckin-way Trump is polling even with Mitt already. No fucking way.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Remember those mocumentaries about counter-terrorism on the "history" channel and military channel from a few years back - total BS not based on anything, but meant to sway minds and recruit.

I think Trumps "celeb apprentice" is like that - people are left with the impression he's some uber-business person / CEO that really knows how to manage large companies and budgets. It's a make believe impression.

Perhaps people need to be reminded how he managed to drive a chain of casino's into bankruptcy. How can you cause a casino to fail? - that's like driving a whore house into the ground.

[FreedomProsperityPeace]

Is this really a bad result for us? Trump probably isn't running, and if he does he won't do especially well in general (besides NH, that is).I doubt he will run as well. Trump is attention whoring.

[Dave Aiello]

We can't make excuses. We need to take every poll seriously. Did we not learn from 2008? C'mon, people!

[Bossobass]

I've always questioned that.

I was there in Concord for the recounts, saw the tampered, sloppy chain of custody for ballots.

And there is not a single person I know that has ever admitted to voting for McCain in the primary.

Either it's conspiracy or an extreme disconnect between blocs of people in NH.

My all-time favorite rigged election story.

In December, '07, McCain was broke, had to borrow $$ to pay his December deficit, down in the polls and had just signed up for matching funds.

In a matter of a couple of weeks, he got a flood of free press, polls BS and won NH.


Senator John McCain won the Republican primary in New Hampshire, with the race being called for him early on.


His supporters and staffers were amazed the race was called so soon;


Shows you that polls are about as useful as statistics.


John McCain, the Republican Party's most relentless and unapologetic guardian of an enduring American presence in Iraq, has become the favored candidate of antiwar voters in the Republican primaries, according to exit polls.


The unlikely [yeah, no shit] base of support for McCain, who once summarized his unyielding resistance to the antiwar cause with the slogan "No Surrender," has been central to his campaign's resurgence.

Oh, and how did Hillary beat Obama in NH?...


We were told tonight that no one is yet picking up on the fact that Democrats in states that held caucuses, and who saw firsthand the fraud, voter intimidation, and other vile tricks Obama pulled in caucus states have NOT forgotten about any of this. These people are still LIVID that a Democrat dared to use Chicago fraud and intimidation to game the caucus system.

Iowa and NH made me sick. I had put 10,000 miles and a ton of balls into this campaign. I had seen a lot that opened my eyes. I remembered the open mics with Romney and Gigglianni chuckling at Ron live to the nation like a couple of elementary school girls, but the NH primary vote results after McCain's miraculous sky rocket from the basement to a win and the exit poll stats of his votes and the voter booth BS and the recount shenanigans...

Made me think I was living in the 3rd world and Sadman McInsane was banging his sword on the podium with one hand and shooting his AK into the air with the other hand.

Bosso

[speciallyblend]

i get from this ppp poll that almost 75% of the gop in nh is either dumb as hell or totally clueless = dumb as hell!!

[Aratus]

donald is springboarding off the apprentice.
latoya ejects star before gary busey goes?

[speciallyblend]

We can't make excuses. We need to take every poll seriously. Did we not learn from 2008? C'mon, people!

since 2005-2006, i have learned the gop is basically full of crap!!

[Anti Federalist]

That VVVV


My all-time favorite rigged election story.

In December, '07, McCain was broke, had to borrow $$ to pay his December deficit, down in the polls and had just signed up for matching funds.

In a matter of a couple of weeks, he got a flood of free press, polls BS and won NH.











Oh, and how did Hillary beat Obama in NH?...



Iowa and NH made me sick. I had put 10,000 miles and a ton of balls into this campaign. I had seen a lot that opened my eyes. I remembered the open mics with Romney and Gigglianni chuckling at Ron live to the nation like a couple of elementary school girls, but the NH primary vote results after McCain's miraculous sky rocket from the basement to a win and the exit poll stats of his votes and the voter booth BS and the recount shenanigans...

Made me think I was living in the 3rd world and Sadman McInsane was banging his sword on the podium with one hand and shooting his AK into the air with the other hand.

Bosso

[RonPaulFanInGA]

We can't make excuses. We need to take every poll seriously. Did we not learn from 2008? C'mon, people!

Agreed.

People here aren't going to fall into the 2007-2008 'dismiss all the polls showing unfavorable results' mode again, hopefully. It wasn't a conspiracy then: Ron Paul really did have single digit support nationally. It's not now either. Independent pollsters' money is in accuracy.

[Keith and stuff]

i get from this ppp poll that almost 75% of the gop in nh is either dumb as hell or totally clueless = dumb as hell!!

It's true, everyone in NH is retarded. I just added it to my blog, http://whynewhampshire.org/

[Teaser Rate]

I got to hand it to him, I'm close enough in NH to know what his record was in Mass. - abortion funding, state mandated purchase of health insurance, increases in fees and taxes, increased gun control, an expansion (although I'm not sure how large off the top of my head) of state government, the list is quite long.

If he can sell that to the GOP, then he is one hell of salesman or the GOP electorate is dumb as bag of hammers.

Probably both.

Would the forum hate me, if it came down to Obummer v. Mutt, if I voted for Obama?

I have a personal reason for this...Mutt's summer home in NH is uncomfortably close to my home town.

Life will become a living hell for people living in the area when he's around if he becomes president, what with crowds of people, media and swarms of everfucking cops of every shape and sort, hut hutting around all over the place.

Just ask people in Kennebunkport what they think of Bush.

Ughhhhhhh...

If it helps at all, I certainly wouldn't hold it against you; you're supposed to vote for the candidate who will personally benefit you the most as president. There's nothing wrong with being pragmatic in my book, besides, it's not like one vote can make any difference.


We can't make excuses. We need to take every poll seriously. Did we not learn from 2008? C'mon, people!

Indeed, I find that many people here underestimate the importance and accuracy of early polling, Nate Silver recently wrote a nice blog post (http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/31/a-brief-history-of-primary-polling-part-i/) which highlights how important polling early is in Republican primaries.

http://i.imgur.com/cs9kX.png

http://i.imgur.com/2XGcb.png

http://i.imgur.com/vKCQf.png

http://i.imgur.com/RSkoq.png

http://i.imgur.com/njdiC.png

[freshjiva]

NH is no doubt an amazing place to live as a lover of liberty, but the residents are idiots. Not sure how this comes to be.

[HOLLYWOOD]

It's all Marketing and Sales on our dumb-down society of morons using their emotions and TV recall to select their candidate(s)... forget the Slim Jims, Posters/Banners. You wanta win, you prey play on the people's mentalities/emotions.

It's obvious American people watch Celebrity Apprentice and Fox everything channels in New Hampshire. It's moronic that New Hampshire residence would even consider Ex-Masshole governor Mitt Romney with his Liberal/Progressive political past, totalitarian philosophy, and crone corporatist elitist past which he stole millions while running BAIN capital and killed AMerican businesses and jobs outta the country.

Wanta win? No Mercy in the filthy dirty game of American politics. First one is fighting bullshit public manipulating polls/propaganda.

[jmdrake]

Agreed.

People here aren't going to fall into the 2007-2008 'dismiss all the polls showing unfavorable results' mode again, hopefully. It wasn't a conspiracy then: Ron Paul really did have single digit support nationally. It's not now either. Independent pollsters' money is in accuracy.

Uh-huh. And the lesson from this poll is shun the birthers at your peril.

[Keith and stuff]

NH is no doubt an amazing place to live as a lover of liberty, but the residents are idiots. Not sure how this comes to be.

People in NH are so stupid. It's clearly clear. Let's look at some of the proof:

NH Students Top National Science Test
http://whynewhampshire.org/2011/01/nh-students-top-national-science-test/

#1 for Understanding the Actual Harm of Cannabis
http://whynewhampshire.org/2011/01/1-for-understanding-the-actual-harm-of-cannabis/

Tops in the Nation for Good Financial Decisions
http://whynewhampshire.org/2011/01/tops-in-the-nation-for-good-financial-decisions/

Full of Smart People, New Hampshire ranked second in a study of average IQ by state conducted in 2006.
http://whynewhampshire.org/2008/10/full-of-smart-people/

I hope that helps :)

[Anti Federalist]

Just read the poll metrics a little more closely.

Number of people polled = 384.

Statistical snapshot FAIL.

[devil21]

People in NH are so stupid. It's clearly clear. Let's look at some of the proof:

NH Students Top National Science Test
http://whynewhampshire.org/2011/01/nh-students-top-national-science-test/

#1 for Understanding the Actual Harm of Cannabis
http://whynewhampshire.org/2011/01/1-for-understanding-the-actual-harm-of-cannabis/

Tops in the Nation for Good Financial Decisions
http://whynewhampshire.org/2011/01/tops-in-the-nation-for-good-financial-decisions/

Full of Smart People, New Hampshire ranked second in a study of average IQ by state conducted in 2006.
http://whynewhampshire.org/2008/10/full-of-smart-people/

I hope that helps :)

Doesn't appear to be helping much. Though I actually put absolutely no stock in this poll being accurate whatsoever.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Uh-huh. And the lesson from this poll is shun the birthers at your peril.

How so? Donald Trump's name ID is the main thing driving his numbers. You can't take, say, birther Jerome Corsi and go anywhere in these polls.

How did Orly Taitz do in that GOP primary for Secretary of State in California?

[low preference guy]

Uh-huh. And the lesson from this poll is shun the birthers at your peril.

Are you participating in some competition to defend as many conspiracy theories as possible?

[Carehn]

just makes me want to vomit.

[qh4dotcom]

How so? Donald Trump's name ID is the main thing driving his numbers. You can't take, say, birther Jerome Corsi and go anywhere in these polls.

How did Orly Taitz do in that GOP primary for Secretary of State in California?

Oh please, Taitz doesn't have the name recognition of Donald Trump

[sofia]

John McCain won the NH Primary back in 2008, so that poll result doesn't surprise me. I guess they would rather die than live free. [lol]

What happened to Hew Hampshire is that many libs/moderates fled Taxachussets for low population NH. These tax fleeing hypocrites did not shed their liberalism, and tilted formerly libertarian New Hampshire into a purplish state.

same shit happened to conservative Vermont 30 years ago when hippies flooded it.

[libertybrewcity]

honestly, this should be expected. Trump made the headlines almost everyday for the past two weeks. When candidates announce, they receive a bump in polling numbers. Headlines and primary polling are somewhat positively correlated.

[libertybrewcity]

What happened to Hew Hampshire is that many libs/moderates fled Taxachussets for low population NH. These tax fleeing hypocrites did not shed their liberalism, and tilted formerly libertarian New Hampshire into a purplish state.

same shit happened to conservative Vermont 30 years ago when hippies flooded it.

I don't live there, but is there evidence for this? Or is it just obvious that a lot of MA people moved there.

[Keith and stuff]

What happened to Hew Hampshire is that many libs/moderates fled Taxachussets for low population NH. These tax fleeing hypocrites did not shed their liberalism, and tilted formerly libertarian New Hampshire into a purplish state.

same shit happened to conservative Vermont 30 years ago when hippies flooded it.

I understand why you would think this; however, it just isn't true. A study was done by the University of NH shows that the top three reasons people move from MA to NH are cheaper housing, lower taxes, and fewer liberals ( http://www.slate.com/toolbar.aspx?action=print&id=2201157 ). It's no surprise that many of the most libertarian state reps in NH come from the towns and cities with the highest percentages of folks from MA.

I've debunked the myths around MA movers more than once in the NH section of this forum, http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?253-New-Hampshire

For example, this may be on interest to you.

Census data shows that NH state redistricting will likely favor Republicans
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?284777-Census-data-shows-that-NH-state-redistricting-will-likely-favor-Republicans



Originally Posted by libertybrewcity
Do they still vote Democratic?

Also, I wonder if the Republican districts are growing or the Democratic districts are losing population, or both.

No, they still vote Republican. They voted Republican in MA and move to NH and still vote Republican The majority of people living in NH were not born in NH. A lot of people leave NH to go to college or just after they graduate college in NH, with the majority of them leaning Democrat. A lot of people in their 30s and 40s move to NH with the majority of them leaning Republican.

In general, the GOP leaning districts are gaining population and the Democratic leaning districts are losing people or staying the same. That isn't the case in 100% of districts, though. For example, highly GOP Derry lost a few people.

[Keith and stuff]

I don't live there, but is there evidence for this? Or is it just obvious that a lot of MA people moved there.

There is a lot of evidence against it but hardly any evidence in support of it, as it isn't true. However, the population in NH is very educated compared to most of the nation. There are lots of high tech workers in NH. Many of them weren't born in NH or even MA. Search shows that the majority of folks from states like NY and NJ don't move to NH for more liberty, unfortunately.

And as for VT, yeah, that did happen to VT. Don't worry, many of the more pro-liberty folks and the business fled VT and moved to NH :)

[Anti Federalist]

There is a lot of evidence against it but hardly any evidence in support of it, as it isn't true. However, the population in NH is very educated compared to most of the nation. There are lots of high tech workers in NH. Many of them weren't born in NH or even MA. Search shows that the majority of folks from states like NY and NJ don't move to NH for more liberty, unfortunately.

And as for VT, yeah, that did happen to VT. Don't worry, many of the more pro-liberty folks and the business fled VT and moved to NH :)

Well, I'm from NJ, and I moved to NH for liberty, years before there was any such thing as an FSP.

Took a lifetime and a long convoluted road to get there, but I did it.

So, there's one anyway.

[freshjiva]

Well, I'm from NJ, and I moved to NH for liberty, years before there was any such thing as an FSP.

Took a lifetime and a long convoluted road to get there, but I did it.

So, there's one anyway.

Unfortunately, there aren't more people like you in NH.
I'm sure the people there are great, but they certainly are easily conned by the one-party establishment.

How a guy like John McCain can win a state of primarily liberty-loving people is beyond me.

What's even more beyond me is how someone like Ron Paul can finish fifth in such a state.

I'm sorry, but NH is crowded with a bunch of people who couldn't identify a statist if one falls right into their laps.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm sorry, but NH NH primary voting GOP is crowded with a bunch of people who couldn't identify a statist if one falls right into their laps.

Fixed that.

There are many people that I know that have dropped out in disgust at the national election scene and want no part of it anymore.

If not for RP I'd be one of them.

[Eric21ND]

This is simply name recognition at this stage of the game and it looks like trump takes a bite out of romney's numbers more than anything.

[acptulsa]

This is simply name recognition at this stage of the game and it looks like trump takes a bite out of romney's numbers more than anything.

Sounds less like name recognition and more like hair recognition.

[Keith and stuff]

Originally Posted by sofia
What happened to Hew Hampshire is that many libs/moderates fled Taxachussets for low population NH. These tax fleeing hypocrites did not shed their liberalism, and tilted formerly libertarian New Hampshire into a purplish state.


More evidence against this claim. I'm quoting folks from Blue Hampshire. Blue Hampshire is a blog for statists/progressives in NH.
http://www.bluehampshire.com/diary/12567/a-clear-statement-of-free-state-philosophy



We should be judicious in blaming/ascribing too much credit to the FSP. (0.00 / 0)
As of today, 901 individuals claim to have moved to NH as part of the FSP. Of them, a significant chunk in Keene disavow making change through 'the system,' and refuse to vote (this is the general 'Free Keene' contingency, who believe in their version of civil disobedience rather than political activism to produce change.) 901 individuals is not enough to effectuate the changes we have seen by themselves, for certain.

A far bigger problem are the native-born granite staters, and conservatives who have left Massachusetts seeking to impose a socially conservative environment. Dan Itse's cadre of of Constitutionally-Disfunctional Theocrats, police chiefs intimidating people who look Spanish, and much of the anti-public school contingency do not originate with the FSP, but are home-grown.

Do these groups get in bed together? Absolutely. Do the local GOP right-wingers encourage, train, equip, and help organize those who have moved as part of the FSP? Absolutely.
When the FSPers move and get political, and morph into the NHLA, does the NHLA turn a blind eye to the uneduated, mean-spirited, theocratic bent of the Right in order to create a winnable coalition? Absolutely. Hence, my complete dissasociation with the NHLA.

But there is a careful line we walk here.

Make no mistake that the lunacy we see in Concord is largely home-grown, though they are leveraging the passion of FSPers.

The good news, is that WE KNOW that their extreme philsoophy does NOT represent the typical Granite Stater in any way. Not yet...

...Right now, one of the biggest complaints that the 10,000 people who have signed onto the FSP (but who have NOT moved here) lodge is that they dont see any 'success.' We still have public schools, we have to register our cars, blah, blah, blah. Jason Sorens, the FSPs founder, doesnt even live here. If we all start actively promoting the idea that the FSP has been successful, we may well encourage these fringe wackos who live elsewhere to move here, exacerbating the problem.

Yes, we need to win back our state, and communicate to the voters the extreme, childish, and kooky nature of this legislature. But I am concerned that if we give the FSP too much credit for what is largely the result not of the FSP or a handful of legislators, but of a larger group of conservatives within the state, we send a problematic message to the outside and fool ourselves as to the real nature of our opposition.

(I'm the poster formerly known as Thomas Simmons)
by: Tully Fitzsimmons @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 09:51:14 AM CDT


Yes, (0.00 / 0)
the Free Staters provide some propaganda, but the danger is done by the immigrants from MA (who are very far from being liberals), and some homegrown NH natives who are poorly educated enough to buy their nonsense.
Most of the rest of the impetus comes from national astroturf organizations who co-opt our elections, and have a racist and pump-up-the-rich-some-more agenda.
by: Lucy Edwards @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 10:16:29 AM CDT


Exactly (4.00 / 1)
And the MA tax cutters who moved here and, despite the propaganda about liberals moving here from MA, are the greater part of the influx from that state, are the ones who came here for lower taxes and then can't figure out why they have to go to the "dump" with their trash. Why can't we have trash collection, they whine. But cut the school budgets because our kids got educated in MA before we moved here. We even had one who bought a house next to a wetland and then complained to the town that they let turtles come and dig holes in their manicured lawn to lay their eggs. The town should have done something about that.
by: Lucy Edwards @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 10:12:07 AM CDT