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aGameOfThrones
04-04-2011, 04:17 PM
Frank Rybicki is an assistant professor in the Mass Media department at Valdosta State University. Last week, he was arrested for his behavior in class. For assault. What heinous crime led to his jailing?....


http://m.gizmodo.com/5788783/professor-arrested-for-shutting-students-laptop-in-class

Yieu
04-04-2011, 04:28 PM
Excessive, civil fines would have been enough, but it is good to see oppression (to any degree) find justice, because he did assault her in legal terms.

moostraks
04-04-2011, 04:47 PM
Excessive, civil fines would have been enough, but it is good to see oppression (to any degree) find justice, because he did assault her in legal terms.

Sounds like there is more to the story if you follow the links to the website with other student responses. Don't be so hasty to see it as oppression by the teacher. Seems like the other students are largely coming to the defense of the teacher's actions.

Agorism
04-04-2011, 04:49 PM
How is it assault if he touched property rather than person? I doubt he damaged the property either.

idk seems pretty minor...

dannno
04-04-2011, 04:49 PM
Ya sorta sounds like a whiney, entitled student..

dannno
04-04-2011, 04:50 PM
How is it assault if he touched property rather than person?

He shut it on her hands :eek:

winston_blade
04-04-2011, 04:51 PM
How is it assault if he touched property rather than person? I doubt he damaged the property either.

idk seems pretty minor...

He shut the laptop on the students hands if I read correctly.

Agorism
04-04-2011, 04:52 PM
If he shut it on her hands, then I don't feel sorry for him. He was pushing the limits doing something like that as it was so whether there was assault depends on the details.

nate895
04-04-2011, 04:54 PM
Excessive, civil fines would have been enough, but it is good to see oppression (to any degree) find justice, because he did assault her in legal terms.

Oh, no, poor baby got a booboo :(

:rolleyes:

QueenB4Liberty
04-04-2011, 04:54 PM
She sounds like an entitled student.

Agorism
04-04-2011, 04:55 PM
It also matters whether he really slammed it shut if he just walked up and pushed the screen down without real force, then after she moved her hands, he slammed it after hands were out of the way...or whatever.

Seems like they will need witnesses to testify as to what really transpired.


She sounds like an entitled student.

If he really slammed her hands, then it's more the other way around...and entitled professor.

dannno
04-04-2011, 04:55 PM
If he shut it on her hands, then I don't feel sorry for him. He was pushing the limits doing something like that as it was so whether there was assault depends on the details.

He probably shut the laptop expecting that she was move her hands as the top came down, and he probably didn't do it terribly hard otherwise the laptop screen would be f'd.

nate895
04-04-2011, 04:58 PM
She sounds like an entitled student.

QFT

Only the anti-any-authority-at-all modern world would side with a disobedient student. It's his class, his rules, and he can enforce them with mild levels of violence if he feels a student is being disobedient enough. If you don't like them, drop the class and find another prof. That's what universities are for.

moostraks
04-04-2011, 05:01 PM
He shut the laptop on the students hands if I read correctly.

That seems to be in dispute (if and how hard) if you read through student comments on the link within the link.

JVParkour
04-04-2011, 05:01 PM
Ehh, I might be a voice that will disagree. Maybe not arrest, but he should have been at least talked to by administration or something. I HATE it when my professors touch or mess with my property. Its college, if a student doesn't want to pay attention, then they have that right. He should have asked the student to close it, then kicked them out of class.

Yieu
04-04-2011, 05:02 PM
Oh, no, poor baby got a booboo :(

:rolleyes:

I keep wanting to read this as if it were being said to someone suffering immense chronic pain every day, but I know that is not what you meant and (hopefully) wouldn't say the same to such a person...

I understand it was not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but there is worse oppression that gets off free all the time, and I was going by a legal definition of the term "assault", which we know is a bit expanded.

Yieu
04-04-2011, 05:06 PM
mild levels of violence

...I guess my religious principles are rather different from yours... non-violence is a religious principle that I find to be one of the highest of principles in religion.

Zero violence is tolerable.

dannno
04-04-2011, 05:08 PM
Only the anti-any-authority-at-all modern world would side with a disobedient student. It's his class, his rules, and he can enforce them with mild levels of violence if he feels a student is being disobedient enough. If you don't like them, drop the class and find another prof. That's what universities are for.

I'm pretty anti-any-authority and am not sure why the Professor would be mad at the student for paying attention to something else in class as long as it isn't distracting others (and distracting 1 or 2 students behind you who choose to look at your screen doesn't count)

HOWEVER, the police authority > professor authority, so being anti-all-authority I wouldn't bring police into this matter if it were me.




QFT

You mean my comment that she was a whiney, entitled student that came 5 posts earlier wasn't good enough :p

nate895
04-04-2011, 05:10 PM
I keep wanting to read this as if it were being said to someone suffering immense chronic pain every day, but I know that is not what you meant and (hopefully) wouldn't say the same to such a person...

That's why I was complaining about this brat complaining about a prof slamming her laptop on her fingers/hands. That couldn't hurt bad at all unless you had some kind of weird condition or something. She should have got over it.

low preference guy
04-04-2011, 05:13 PM
what a psycho professor. it would've been enough to ask the student to leave the class. the professor has no right to mess with the property of the students.

dannno
04-04-2011, 05:15 PM
what a psycho professor. it would've been enough to ask the student to leave the class. the professor has no right to mess with the property of the students.

Ya I would say this was a clash of the psychos, the professor did start it, but then he got out-psycho'd.

Agorism
04-04-2011, 05:16 PM
He probably shut the laptop expecting that she was move her hands as the top came down, and he probably didn't do it terribly hard otherwise the laptop screen would be f'd.

It's her laptop. She shouldn't have to quick move her fingers because the professor is threatening her.

Say someone walks up to your car door to slam it on you and expects that you'll quick move you leg. If you don't it's not the victims fault. Also it's not only whether the attack (a battery) occurred but whether there was intent to slam the fingers (assault.)

So if he slowly pressed it down as to intentionally wait until she moved her fingers, and then slammed it, then maybe a court would say not assault. But if he slammed it and she quick moved her fingers, then it's still assault. Also hovering the threat over her that he was going to slam fingers if she didn't comply could also constitute assault so even in that circumstance where he was trying to get her fingers to move before he slammed could even be construed assault.. Remember assault is just intent whereas battery is doing actual harm.

Either way, the professor lost control of his emotions and control of himself in general.

I can't really feel bad for people who can't follow basic rules in society like don't attack other people esp when he was in a position of power as a professor.

nate895
04-04-2011, 05:17 PM
I'm pretty anti-any-authority and am not sure why the Professor would be mad at the student for paying attention to something else in class as long as it isn't distracting others (and distracting 1 or 2 students behind you who choose to look at your screen doesn't count)

HOWEVER, the police authority > professor authority, so being anti-all-authority I wouldn't bring police into this matter if it were me.

Why would he be angry? Because she is in his class, and he deserves her attention, or at least pretend attention (it's not like I haven't been in a college class and ignored the idiot instructor).


You mean my comment that she was a whiney, entitled student that came 5 posts earlier wasn't good enough :p

Sorry, didn't notice that.

low preference guy
04-04-2011, 05:23 PM
Why would he be angry? Because she is in his class, and he deserves her attention, or at least pretend attention (it's not like I haven't been in a college class and ignored the idiot instructor).

The professor doesn't "deserve" attention. The purpose of a class is to benefit students, not stroke the ego of some idiot professor.

aGameOfThrones
04-04-2011, 05:25 PM
Why would he be angry? Because she is in his class, and he deserves her attention, or at least pretend attention (it's not like I haven't been in a college class and ignored the idiot instructor).



Sorry, didn't notice that.

Well, she's kinda in her class. After all, students pay for them.

dannno
04-04-2011, 05:27 PM
It's her laptop. She shouldn't have to quick move her fingers because the professor is threatening her.

Say someone walks up to your car door to slam it on you and expects that you'll quick move you leg. If you don't it's not the victims fault. Also it's not only whether the attack (a battery) occurred but whether there was intent to slam the fingers (assault.)

So if he slowly pressed it down as to intentionally wait until she moved her fingers, and then slammed it, then maybe a court would say not assault. But if he slammed it and she quick moved her fingers, then it's still assault. Also hovering the threat over her that he was going to slam fingers if she didn't comply could also constitute assault so even in that circumstance where he was trying to get her fingers to move before he slammed could even be construed assault.. Remember assault is just intent whereas battery is doing actual harm.

Either way, the professor lost control of his emotions and control of himself in general.

I can't really feel bad for people who can't follow basic rules in society like don't attack other people esp when he was in a position of power as a professor.

Oh, I completely agree, I would have been pissed.. But I wouldn't file charges for assault unless I was hurt, because what he was trying to do (shut the laptop) occurred, and it didn't injure me. So assault would be like threatening to or trying to injure someone and it not resulting in an injury, this guy didn't seem to do either. Though I might complain to the school since my property could have been damaged.

Agorism
04-04-2011, 05:33 PM
Bottom line is there are a lot of morons out there who haven't learned the basic lessons of Kindergarden that they aren't supposed to touch, push, slam other people.

It's a shame he failed to learn that in Kindergarden as now the law will have to teach the professor.


p.s.- assault has nothing to do with "hurt." Only battery has to do with "hurt." Assault is only a threat. Assault can even be done over the phone.

nate895
04-04-2011, 05:33 PM
Well, she's kinda in her class. After all, students pay for them.

Have you signed up for a college class? She signed up for his class. That's how it has worked since they opened the first universities in the middle ages. The entire point of the university is to have a community of teachers teaching a community of students, as opposed to the old method of one teacher and one school. It really revolutionized how we learn. We kept the expert "philosophers" and abandoned the one-man show without checks for falsehood.

nate895
04-04-2011, 05:34 PM
Bottom line is there are a lot of morons out there who haven't learned the basic lessons of Kindergarden that they aren't supposed to touch, push, slam other people disobey the teacher.


Fixed it.

JCLibertarian
04-04-2011, 05:34 PM
Oh, no, poor baby got a booboo :(

:rolleyes:
I slam your labtop down on your hands, see if you like it. This sounds like a obnoxious self important professor who thinks he is actually significant, but doesn't realize, that he works for the students, the students pay his salary, and that as the employee, he shouldn't get so uppity. Maybe this will teach him a lesson about respecting private property.

low preference guy
04-04-2011, 05:36 PM
Fixed it.

interesting. i would expect that "fix" to come from an authoritarian loon, not a RPF poster.

nate895
04-04-2011, 05:36 PM
I slam your labtop down on your hands, see if you like it. This sounds like a obnoxious self important professor who thinks he is actually significant, but doesn't realize, that he works for the students, the students pay his salary, and that as the employee, he shouldn't get so uppity. Maybe this will teach him a lesson about respecting private property.

You invert reality. The students are there to learn from the teacher. That's a privilege.

nate895
04-04-2011, 05:37 PM
interesting. i would expect that "fix" to come from an authoritarian loon, not a RPF poster.

You lot are the loons for thinking there is no authority.

Agorism
04-04-2011, 05:37 PM
Fixed it.

This isn't K-12. These are paying adults. Even if it were K-12, the teachers don't get to assault the students.

BTW- we don't know the age of this student. Maybe it was a 32 year old who was going back to school while working full time. There is no reason why the professor gets some special entitlement beyond normal people.



You invert reality. The students are there to learn from the teacher. That's a privilege.

Privilege to teach at that school as well, which the professor obviously doesn't take seriously.

MelissaWV
04-04-2011, 05:37 PM
I slam your labtop down on your hands, see if you like it. This sounds like a obnoxious self important professor who thinks he is actually significant, but doesn't realize, that he works for the students, the students pay his salary, and that as the employee, he shouldn't get so uppity. Maybe this will teach him a lesson about respecting private property.

Out of curiosity, do you really believe that tuition pays all the professors' salaries? :p

JCLibertarian
04-04-2011, 05:38 PM
Why would he be angry? Because she is in his class, and he deserves her attention, or at least pretend attention (it's not like I haven't been in a college class and ignored the idiot instructor).



Sorry, didn't notice that.

No one deserves anything, you earn things like attention and respect. Clearly, this psycho professor didn't have the respect or attention of the student, and the professor decided to throw a hissy fit and assault the girl.

JCLibertarian
04-04-2011, 05:40 PM
Out of curiosity, do you really believe that tuition pays all the professors' salaries? :p

No, but salaries could not be paid without tuition. Teachers serve students, that is why in University, students pay for the education. It would be equivalent to a house maid kicking your feet off the floor to clean under your feet.

nate895
04-04-2011, 05:41 PM
No one deserves anything, you earn things like attention and respect.

Didn't he do that by, I don't know, spending years and thousands of dollars (or earning scholarships) becoming an expert who people come to learn from?

QueenB4Liberty
04-04-2011, 05:42 PM
This isn't K-12. These are paying adults. Even if it were K-12, the teachers don't get to assault the students.

BTW- we don't know the age of this student. Maybe it was a 32 year old who was going back to school while working full time. There is no reason why the professor gets some special entitlement beyond normal people.




Privilege to teach at that school as well, which the professor obviously doesn't take seriously.

Yeah. Why would anyone pay for a class and not pay attention in it? And if she was playing a game or doing something else distracting on her computer? It's rude. I agree he shouldn't have shut her laptop, a verbal request would've been fine, but she isn't there to be doing personal things on her computer during that class

dannno
04-04-2011, 05:42 PM
p.s.- assault has nothing to do with "hurt." Only battery has to do with "hurt." Assault is only a threat. Assault can even be done over the phone.

Oh I know, but I would say if a professor took a heavy book, and intentionally tried to slam it down on the girls' hands with the intention of hurting her, or threatened to do us, then it would be assault.. but the fact that he carried out the intended action and she wasn't hurt, to me, takes it out of the category of assault.

Agorism
04-04-2011, 05:43 PM
Didn't he do that by, I don't know, spending years and thousands of dollars (or earning scholarships) becoming an expert who people come to learn from?

If he's truly an elite in his niche, then he will probably find a way to get probation or get another jobs. There are normally plenty of phd who would like the privilege of teaching there I'm sure though and some who won't assault students.

This reminds me of when the NBA players attack the fans.


http://img.fannation.com/upload/si_blog_post_images/artest.jpg

If he's a really elite professor, he will have more leeway and more second chances though, but even the greatest can only get away with so much though.

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/bob-knight.jpg

dannno
04-04-2011, 05:44 PM
Yeah. Why would anyone pay for a class and not pay attention in it? And if she was playing a game or doing something else distracting on her computer? It's rude. I agree he shouldn't have shut her laptop, a verbal request would've been fine, but she isn't there to be doing personal things on her computer during that class

But she paid for it, it's her decision if she wants to waste the tuition, or maybe she just takes this class to fulfill some requirement she isn't interested in. She can do whatever she wants as long as it isn't distracting others (not including the people directly behind her who can choose whether to look at her computer screen or not)

aGameOfThrones
04-04-2011, 05:45 PM
Have you signed up for a college class? She signed up for his class. That's how it has worked since they opened the first universities in the middle ages. The entire point of the university is to have a community of teachers teaching a community of students, as opposed to the old method of one teacher and one school. It really revolutionized how we learn. We kept the expert "philosophers" and abandoned the one-man show without checks for falsehood.


Well, she kinda signed up for a class that the school provides, the teacher is in the class the university allows him to teach. After all, it's the university's class too.

JCLibertarian
04-04-2011, 05:45 PM
You invert reality. The students are there to learn from the teacher. That's a privilege.

Students are there to get whatever they want out of the class as they have the privilege of entering it. They have no obligation(unless by contract) to due anything the teacher says. It isn't like the teacher is paying the students to listen.

low preference guy
04-04-2011, 05:46 PM
Didn't he do that by, I don't know, spending years and thousands of dollars (or earning scholarships) becoming an expert who people come to learn from?

most professors are jokes. it's a stretch to call someone an expert just because he has a degree, especially today when so much government involvement has really damaged the quality of education.

JCLibertarian
04-04-2011, 05:46 PM
Didn't he do that by, I don't know, spending years and thousands of dollars (or earning scholarships) becoming an expert who people come to learn from?

Clearly not in the mind of that student, as respect earned is something subjective from person to person. I have no respect for him either.

nate895
04-04-2011, 05:47 PM
No, but salaries could not be paid without tuition. Teachers serve students, that is why in University, students pay for the education. It would be equivalent to a house maid kicking your feet off the floor to clean under your feet.

You are obviously confused about the founding of universities and the roots of education. Education is a fundamentally different type of service that others. Maids are there to serve. Professors are there to impart wisdom to students. The student is there to learn and obey. The university was originally a combination of the academies of several individual teachers who people would come to learn about theology, philosophy, law, medicine, etc. It was built so that the professors may check each other's more wild tendencies (think getting rid of Plato's definition of man fiasco before he said something that dumb). The students go to them to learn, and that's the way it's always been, and always should be.

Agorism
04-04-2011, 05:49 PM
Professors are not there to assault other adults. They should not be assaulting children in K-12 either.

Professor could deduct points for improper behavior during class or he could call security as well. Or he could have just asked her to close it if he had never made the policy clear before rather than assaulting the student.

QueenB4Liberty
04-04-2011, 05:51 PM
But she paid for it, it's her decision if she wants to waste the tuition, or maybe she just takes this class to fulfill some requirement she isn't interested in. She can do whatever she wants as long as it isn't distracting others (not including the people directly behind her who can choose whether to look at her computer screen or not)

If she wants to use her laptop for personal use during class, she should be asked to leave. I don't think the fact that she paid for the class means she can disrespect the people in it that are paying attention, but ok.

Yieu
04-04-2011, 05:57 PM
You lot are the loons for thinking there is no authority.

The only authority is God. There is no other authority.

JCLibertarian
04-04-2011, 05:59 PM
You are obviously confused about the founding of universities and the roots of education. Education is a fundamentally different type of service that others. Maids are there to serve. Professors are there to impart wisdom to students. The student is there to learn and obey. The university was originally a combination of the academies of several individual teachers who people would come to learn about theology, philosophy, law, medicine, etc. It was built so that the professors may check each other's more wild tendencies (think getting rid of Plato's definition of man fiasco before he said something that dumb). The students go to them to learn, and that's the way it's always been, and always should be.

"Imparting wisdom", is a service. Students paying teachers indirectly to provide them with the level of knowledge necessary to have a certain level of understanding in their field, and at the least, the credits to achieve a degree. Your "shoulds", do not change this. At the end of the day, ideally, if professors do a poor job of providing their service, that is, students get poor grades, than they are fired or not given tenured. If there is no contract to "obey", than there is no obligation to "obey".

dannno
04-04-2011, 06:01 PM
If she wants to use her laptop for personal use during class, she should be asked to leave.

Why? How does her laptop use affect anybody else?

Her punishment for not paying attention, if that is what the professor wants to enforce via pop-quizzes or on-the-spot questioning, is a bad grade.



I don't think the fact that she paid for the class means she can disrespect the people in it that are paying attention, but ok.

You sure have a funny definition of disrespect. I can sit in a classroom with other students that are not paying attention and as long as they aren't talking or being disruptive it doesn't make me feel disrespected.. The professor might feel that way, understandably, but I don't think it is in their best interest to be all fascist about it.

moostraks
04-04-2011, 06:04 PM
This appears to be written by someone who was attending the class:
"The girl’s thumb was between the screen and her keyboard when her computer was shut, but somehow her pinky finger was fractured and now she’s saying it’s broken? The thing is that she got embarassed because she got yelled at in class, and now recovering from her shame is worth ending a man’s career.

1)The teacher she disrespected day after day by her inattentiveness has been arrested for battery against a student; a charge that will probably end his career as a teacher.

2)And the other students in this class, who PAY for this class, have now had a week filled with being questioned by the police and listening to a vague speech by Dr. Kates instead of a week worth of classes. They now will receive a new teacher in the middle of the semester, have to catch up from being a week behind, learn on a time crunch, and hope their grades don’t suffer.

All of that is going on WHILE this student gets to complete the rest of her classes in directed studies all though this teacher she accused of assaulting her isn’t allowed to teach.

If he’s not teaching her or even in the mass media building, why can’t she come to classes like everyone else and learn this new curriculum from a new teacher with a new teaching style under a new time crunched schedule like her classmates?

The ONE person who started all of this, is the ONE person this isn’t effecting"

from:http://www.vsuspectator.com/2011/03/31/professor-arrested-for-battery/

It puts some perspective on just how ridiculous the issue has become for those in the class who also paid to be taught unlike the initial student who according to one:
"The student is a complete drama queen and was asked multiple throughout the semester to close her computer. The student has also been in pervious classes with this professor and has been a distraction to all the students in her classes!"

and another:
"I was in the class, this student blew this up. It should have ended when we left class. The student, a female, thinks her stuff doesn’t stink and she thinks she is better than anyone. (i.e. a picture on her facebook says “yep, I’m basically perfect”)

She got called out and embarrassed in front of class and now she is making a big deal to grab the attention. She ruined this professors career and put the rest of mass media students in a tough spot with five weeks left to go.

None of us know what to expect in the classes now with different professors stepping in. Oh yeah, she doesnt have to finish the law class either."

So everyone who defends the girl might want to consider that said "victim" has quite possibly been wasting the money of other students who came to learn. I would have kicked her butt out rather than touch her because everyone now feels entitled to financial retribution and he just asked for it by using force knowing the mindset of people nowadays.

MelissaWV
04-04-2011, 06:05 PM
I honestly can't believe this has gone on without the statement of the obvious.

Certain classes, or even the entire school, have codes of conduct that the students agree to abide by when they enroll and pay their tuition. Sometimes this includes a provision that governs use of personal communication devices, laptops, etc.. Some classes welcome laptops so that students can take notes or better participate. Some don't even want you to have your cellphone out. You can be asked to leave --- permanently --- if you break this code depending on the severity and the whim of the teacher.

The teacher should not have slammed down the laptop. The student should not have had it out if it was against code/rules.

They just should have been asked to leave, as others have said. This debate about respect and whatever else is secondary to the codes and rules the student agreed to as a part of the class. They are likely unique to this particular class, and should be produced to demonstrate how the student was breaking the rules. So far it seems more about a huge debate over entitlement.

low preference guy
04-04-2011, 06:07 PM
So far it seems more about a huge debate over entitlement.

Whose feelings of entitlement? The feeling of entitlement from the Professor that he deserves the students' attention and that he is entitled to mess with the property of students?

moostraks
04-04-2011, 06:09 PM
Whose feelings of entitlement? The feeling of entitlement from the Professor that he deserves the students' attention and that he is entitled to mess with the property of students?

What about the feelings of the others students that she stop being so disruptive?

Agorism
04-04-2011, 06:13 PM
If she was being disruptive, then ask her to leave followed by calling security on her rather than assaulting her...

Funny how these stories area always about men who can't control their emotions. We never hear about some female professor who does this.

McBell
04-04-2011, 07:04 PM
I honestly can't believe this has gone on without the statement of the obvious.

Certain classes, or even the entire school, have codes of conduct that the students agree to abide by when they enroll and pay their tuition. Sometimes this includes a provision that governs use of personal communication devices, laptops, etc.. Some classes welcome laptops so that students can take notes or better participate. Some don't even want you to have your cellphone out. You can be asked to leave --- permanently --- if you break this code depending on the severity and the whim of the teacher.

The teacher should not have slammed down the laptop. The student should not have had it out if it was against code/rules.

They just should have been asked to leave, as others have said. This debate about respect and whatever else is secondary to the codes and rules the student agreed to as a part of the class. They are likely unique to this particular class, and should be produced to demonstrate how the student was breaking the rules. So far it seems more about a huge debate over entitlement.
+1,000,000

nate895
04-04-2011, 07:08 PM
This entire thread represents why I stopped going on these forums for a few months. No respect.

nate895
04-04-2011, 07:11 PM
"Imparting wisdom", is a service. Students paying teachers indirectly to provide them with the level of knowledge necessary to have a certain level of understanding in their field, and at the least, the credits to achieve a degree. Your "shoulds", do not change this. At the end of the day, ideally, if professors do a poor job of providing their service, that is, students get poor grades, than they are fired or not given tenured. If there is no contract to "obey", than there is no obligation to "obey".

That's why the university was created, so that faculties can keep each other in check and eliminate the clowns from the ranks of the philosophers. It doesn't always works, but then again, it's human. However, so long as the university has someone on their faculty and you are in their class, you have to respect their authority at least enough to not distract them. Rules have to be obeyed. Punishment is the result for not obeying rules.

kah13176
04-04-2011, 07:23 PM
We make fun, for example, of the McDonald's coffee lawsuit. This is even worse. I doubt any of her property (broadest definition) was harmed. Many comments said that she was a whiny, arrogant student who felt entitled.

What is REALLY wrong here is the infringement upon the other students' property. College students pay large sums of money to take classes, and now they must finish out this semester with no professor and no refund.

nate895
04-04-2011, 07:27 PM
We make fun, for example, of the McDonald's coffee lawsuit. This is even worse. I doubt any of her property (broadest definition) was harmed. Many comments said that she was a whiny, arrogant student who felt entitled.

What is REALLY wrong here is the infringement upon the other students' property. College students pay large sums of money to take classes, and now they must finish out this semester with no professor and no refund.

Seriously. Calling this assault is like calling a woman who slaps some clown's face at a bar for unwelcome advances "assault." Maybe by the letter it is, but since when do we only listen to the letter or the law? This is more like a forceful wake-up call "hey, listen, or get out and let us learn."

QueenB4Liberty
04-04-2011, 07:36 PM
Seriously. Calling this assault is like calling a woman who slaps some clown's face at a bar for unwelcome advances "assault." Maybe by the letter it is, but since when do we only listen to the letter or the law? This is more like a forceful wake-up call "hey, listen, or get out and let us learn."

Exactly. I feel really bad for the rest of the k ids in the class.

Depressed Liberator
04-04-2011, 08:09 PM
You guys don't know enough about this to really judge at all. The professor could have slammed the laptop to close it without regard to her hands being there, or he could have simply started to close and she put her hands in there as he was closing it to stop him.

Either way, the professor should have (and may have) asked her to close it herself. Perhaps she was not a first offender.

All in all, this thing is being investigated. Anyone taking extremes here and accusing people of feeling entitlement or whatever the fuck needs to settle down and wait for the facts to come in.

dannno
04-04-2011, 08:21 PM
This entire thread represents why I stopped going on these forums for a few months. No respect.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1082/3164086913_e0fc462019.jpg

MelissaWV
04-04-2011, 08:21 PM
This entire thread represents why I stopped going on these forums for a few months. No respect.

I'm sorry, could you point out where I was disrespectful? Thanks.

(The namecalling is unappreciated, especially when I don't see where half of the people in the thread fit the bill.)

nate895
04-04-2011, 08:22 PM
You guys don't know enough about this to really judge at all. The professor could have slammed the laptop to close it without regard to her hands being there, or he could have simply started to close and she put her hands in there as he was closing it to stop him.

Either way, the professor should have (and may have) asked her to close it herself. Perhaps she was not a first offender.

All in all, this thing is being investigated. Anyone taking extremes here and accusing people of feeling entitlement or whatever the fuck needs to settle down and wait for the facts to come in.

I see your point, but I just cannot see the prof being at fault. It might be the case, but I'd be willing to bet a lot that it wasn't. I've been in classes at a state "institution of higher education," and many of the "students" (not all, by any means) are disrespectful little punks who never got punished for anything in their lives and simply have no respect for the classroom or other people. They listen to their iPods, sleep in class, play with their toys on the computer, and make general fools of themselves. It is really tiring, and I can understand why in March, after several months of this disrespect, the prof finally just got fed up.

If you don't like learning, don't go to school. It's really easy. If you don't like a class, skip as much as possible and at least pretend to listen when you're there.

nate895
04-04-2011, 08:25 PM
I'm sorry, could you point out where I was disrespectful? Thanks.

(The namecalling is unappreciated, especially when I don't see where half of the people in the thread fit the bill.)

I was not saying that there was literally no respect. What I was expressing using hyperbole was that there is a very large contingent of RPFer's who simply do not respect any kind of authority, and if you don't respect any kind of authority, you cannot respect your fellow man. I mean, there are a lot of things you can do to hurt people before you violate the "non-aggression principle." One of them is disrespecting the classroom.

Yieu
04-04-2011, 08:27 PM
I'm sorry, could you point out where I was disrespectful? Thanks.

(The namecalling is unappreciated, especially when I don't see where half of the people in the thread fit the bill.)

I'll ask the same. I do not see what would be disrespectful about recognizing God as the only authority. To me, that is reality.


if you don't respect any kind of authority, you cannot respect your fellow man.

I disagree. Strongly. By recognizing God as the only authority and no other, not only are you respecting your fellow man by default, but also all living beings, down to bacteria.

nate895
04-04-2011, 08:30 PM
I'll ask the same. I do not see what would be disrespectful about recognizing God as the only authority. To me, that is reality.

What about the authority of the Prophets and Apostles who speak for God? How do you respect the authority of God if He does not speak? Does He speak to you? How does that work? How do you determine what is from God and what isn't?

Yieu
04-04-2011, 08:48 PM
What about the authority of the Prophets and Apostles who speak for God? How do you respect the authority of God if He does not speak? Does He speak to you? How does that work? How do you determine what is from God and what isn't?

That is why such exalted souls are known as "God's authorized representatives" (notice the word "authorized" and its meaning). The rest of the questions would take great length to explain adequately, and for this reason I intend to try my best to explain it in a blog series in the somewhat near future (if I get the energy to).

God speaks; especially through scripture such as Bhagavad Gita. He has a personal form much like ours. Does he speak to me? Well, I you could call prayer communicating with, or at least to God. How does that work? Speak His name! It carries his full potency. Jai Shri Krishna! Krishna is one of God's names, it means "the most attractive Person", which is who God is. How do you determine what is God and what isn't? There are a few ways to tell, as noted in the vedas for calculating the question of who is God. One who possesses the following opulences in full is God: 1) Strength, 2) Fame, 3) Wealth, 4) Knowledge, 5) Beauty, and 6) Renunciation. Also, it is said in Srimad Bhagavatam, "Krishnas tu Bhagavan svyam"; Bhagavan means the person who is God. God is a Person, with a personality, form, and name (if this were not so, He would be limited in some way, but He is unlimited).

I hope that helps a little.

Also, there is no doubt in my mind that we worship the same God, we just know Him slightly differently.

nate895
04-04-2011, 09:13 PM
Also, there is no doubt in my mind that we worship the same God, we just know Him slightly differently.

On the other hand, I believe we are speaking two wholly different languages when we speak about God. My God is Just, Holy, Powerful, Merciful, Loving, one being in three persons, self-existent, worked mighty deeds in history, and ultimately expressed Himself in Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son, whose power over the grave is the basis for our future resurrection. You cannot have the Father unless if you have the Son (John 14:6). You do not have the Son of our Lord, and you do not cling to Him for your salvation.

How can we worship the same the same God when you contradict what my God said? Either you do not know Him as well as you think, or I do not. Since your God did not incarnate Himself and die for our sins, how can we be forgiven? There is no salvation save through the washing of the blood of the Lamb. I have been washed, have you?

MelissaWV
04-04-2011, 09:26 PM
I'm now officially lost. Did God cause the laptop to close? :eek:

low preference guy
04-04-2011, 09:27 PM
Who would've thought a thread titled "Professor Arrested for Shutting Student's Laptop in Class" would turn into a religious war?


MY God is the real God! Yours is fake!

nate895
04-04-2011, 09:28 PM
I'm now officially lost. Did God cause the laptop to close? :eek:

Well, in an ultimate sense, yes.

nate895
04-04-2011, 09:30 PM
Who would've thought a thread titled "Professor Arrested for Shutting Student's Laptop in Class" would turn into a religious war?

It's called Evangelism. I'm called to do it when there's an opening, you know. Or was I supposed to respect the topic of the thread or something? I don't know, that would involve having respect for some kind of authority, and we libertarians are opposed to that, aren't we?

low preference guy
04-04-2011, 09:33 PM
It's called Evangelism. I'm called to do it when there's an opening, you know. Or was I supposed to respect the topic of the thread or something? I don't know, that would involve having respect for some kind of authority, and we libertarians are opposed to that, aren't we?

Libertarians tend to respect private property, and most of them honor their agreement to not hijack threads.

Yieu
04-04-2011, 09:43 PM
On the other hand, I believe we are speaking two wholly different languages when we speak about God. My God is Just, Holy, Powerful, Merciful, Loving, one being in three persons, self-existent, worked mighty deeds in history, and ultimately expressed Himself in Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son, whose power over the grave is the basis for our future resurrection. You cannot have the Father unless if you have the Son (John 14:6). You do not have the Son of our Lord, and you do not cling to Him for your salvation.

How can we worship the same the same God when you contradict what my God said? Either you do not know Him as well as you think, or I do not. Since your God did not incarnate Himself and die for our sins, how can we be forgiven? There is no salvation save through the washing of the blood of the Lamb. I have been washed, have you?

I never said "my God"* is not any of the things you described Him as. He most certainly is all of them and more. I gave a somewhat basic description to make it more simple. I see no major conflict between our religions. We are monotheists whose ultimate purpose is to serve and love God -- this was also Jesus' teaching, was it not?

He reveals Himself to different degrees to different cultures according to time, place, circumstance, and what those peoples are ready and able to accept.

He revealed Himself slightly differently to Christian and Hindu culture. But there is only one God. And I assure you, we both worship the same God.

Jesus is God's (Krishna's, or whatever name you chose to use) authorized representative. So how can one love God and not love his authorized representative, Jesus? I make no claim of rejecting or not loving Jesus. But I believe it goes deeper. There are secrets that Jesus did not reveal to the world, because it was not ready. There is a whole science of loving and serving God revealed in the vedic literature.

If you want to try to exclude me just for the sake of being exclusionary, you have the right to. But we worship the same God, our goals are the same (to serve and worship Him), so we are benefited by accepting each other, not by rejecting each other.

*There is no "my God" and "your God". There is only one. Try to imagine what unlimited really means. He can reveal Himself in different ways, to different degrees.

I think us religionists, all of us here on RPF, would benefit to have comparative theological discussions, and learn and grow in our own faiths along with each other.

JoshLowry
04-04-2011, 09:44 PM
Or was I supposed to respect the topic of the thread or something? I don't know, that would involve having respect for some kind of authority, and we libertarians are opposed to that, aren't we?

Thanks ace!

Yieu
04-04-2011, 09:46 PM
Who would've thought a thread titled "Professor Arrested for Shutting Student's Laptop in Class" would turn into a religious war?

"MY God is the real God! Yours is fake!"

If it makes it any better, I don't feel that way at all. This can be infered from my posts, though. I find it to be peaceful discussion! Maybe we should move it to the Religion section to be polite though, nate?


Thanks ace!

Sorry about the derailing thing... spiritual minded folks have a hard time not talking about God all the time... :) But I love it! It is food for the soul.

JacobR248
04-04-2011, 10:01 PM
I can't really give my opinion on this. At a university if you're taking a class and slacking off, you're usually allowed to. I mean, it is your money. I've had teachers that would never go to a specific class unless it was test day. That in itself makes the student pay even LESS attention to the lecture, seeing as they're not even there. What are the policies of the class. Is there an attendance? Do they force the student to be in a class he/she pays for. Does the class require people to pay attention? These rules seem silly and will only harm the grades of a class, because regiment teaching styles have lead to failing grades, just look at America's school system (and the fact that it's a failing bureaucracy). However, if the policy of that class is to pay attention, then she must pay attention. But, the teacher must enforce these rules in an appropriate way. What strikes at me harder is the fact that he touched her property, because that probably was more invasive than the actual shutting of the laptop on her fingers. If I'm in a class with my laptop, then I wouldn't want some teacher to start violating my property without my authorization so that I would pay attention. If action is really necessary, he could send her to some kind of disciplinary office, write her up a ticket, or do what ever the school requires he should do.

I can't really judge, because I have no idea of some of policies of the class and school. Though if this was a class that she paid for, and the class did not require attendance or any sign of attention, then it is her right to not put in any effort other than to obey the school/class policies. If she wants to waste her tuition fee, then that's fine, it is her money.

LibertyRevolution
04-05-2011, 10:22 AM
I took an earth science class in college...a subject that I enjoyed much in high school.
So much in fact that I had read every book in the middle school, high school, and public libraries on the subject.
The professor required us to buy this book that comes with a CD. Once shrink-wrap was opened book was non-returnable, nor would they buy it back.
So I bought the book, and refused to open it. Professor got angry that I sat in class everyday with a still shrink-wrapped book.
He tried to explain to me that I couldn't pass his class without opening the book, to which I replied, that if he was not going to provide me with the knowledge I need to pass the class, then why are you teaching this class?
Well weeks went by, test after test I aced, more aggravated professor got.
So one class he tells us to open to page blah, and look at the diagram, once again I refused to open my book.
Professor had enough of me at this point and took the book off my desk and opened it.
I withdrew from his class, filed a complaint, threatened everyone with lawsuits.
I was reimbursed for the class, the school payed me for the cost of the book, but I was not invited back for next semester...
Don't let professors mess with your stuff, they have no goddam right to touch your stuff...
It was all I could do to not throw my book at his head...
If someone closed my laptop on my fingers, you can expect me to close your hand in the door, repeatedly..

BTW, book in question was a $250 required book...

Romulus
04-05-2011, 10:34 AM
what a psycho professor. it would've been enough to ask the student to leave the class. the professor has no right to mess with the property of the students.

I agree.. my school professors always kicked kids out of class.. and when some kid up and left on his own, they would run them down and make them get back in class. Of course these teachers were from China, Bosnia, Russia and so on.

dannno
04-05-2011, 10:39 AM
BTW, book in question was a $250 required book...

Was your professor the author :confused:

That's not uncommon.

acptulsa
04-05-2011, 10:42 AM
Thanks ace!

I was wondering how this topic rated nine pages. It was a Godjack! :eek:


The professor doesn't "deserve" attention. The purpose of a class is to benefit students, not stroke the ego of some idiot professor.

Now, some idiot dean is a different story. The whole University is there to stroke the deans' egos.

Warrior_of_Freedom
04-05-2011, 10:48 AM
I want to side with the professor, but the professor has really no right to touch the kid's property. I wouldn't claim assault charges, but if my laptop was damaged, then there would be a problem. I do hate kids that do nothing but play on facebook all day in class though, then whine when they get a 68 on the midterm. (I do not have texting or a laptop and I pass all my classes with a B or greater, they are just too much of a distraction)

dannno
04-05-2011, 11:04 AM
How many students bring their laptops to class these days? 60%? 80-90%? More?

6 years ago, I would say it was probably about 1-3% at most.

eOs
04-05-2011, 11:15 AM
You lot are the loons for thinking there is no authority.

umad?

Justinjj1
04-05-2011, 11:41 AM
I'm a teacher, and there have been several times that I have wanted to take someone's cell phone and chunk it against the wall. But, I don't have the right to damage someone else's property, just like this professor doesn't have the right to slam someone's laptop shut.

This was a college class, the professor should have kicked the student out if they refused to obey the rules. I wish we had the authority in high school classes to kick students out of the room, but we're not even allowed to sit them out in the hall anymore.

dannno
04-05-2011, 11:47 AM
I'm a teacher, and there have been several times that I have wanted to take someone's cell phone and chunk it against the wall. But, I don't have the right to damage someone else's property, just like this professor doesn't have the right to slam someone's laptop shut.

This was a college class, the professor should have kicked the student out if they refused to obey the rules. I wish we had the authority in high school classes to kick students out of the room, but we're not even allowed to sit them out in the hall anymore.

High School classes are completely the opposite of college classes, in my experience.. They don't take attendance in college. I don't remember any students being kicked out of class. Maybe things have changed, I don't know.

BTW, do you want to throw their phone against the wall because they are using it to surf the net or text, or because they are talking on the phone? I can't imagine a professor getting upset for texting on your phone, as long as the phone isn't beeping and making noise.

Romulus
04-05-2011, 11:50 AM
I'm a teacher, and there have been several times that I have wanted to take someone's cell phone and chunk it against the wall. But, I don't have the right to damage someone else's property, just like this professor doesn't have the right to slam someone's laptop shut.

This was a college class, the professor should have kicked the student out if they refused to obey the rules. I wish we had the authority in high school classes to kick students out of the room, but we're not even allowed to sit them out in the hall anymore.

I bet it's pretty hard for you to get fired too. lol

Can't you just send them to the principles office?

RyanRSheets
04-05-2011, 12:15 PM
The only authority is God. There is no other authority.

Dear Physically Passive, Metaphysically Omnipotent God,

The professor just slammed my laptop closed while I was checking Facebook. There's nobody with any authority around here to do anything about it. Please physically intervene. I don't know, shock the guy with a lightning bolt or something. My case is special, God.

Amen,

Angry Student

I LOL'd at the direction this thread went.