Help me clear up something (Re: Ron v. Rand running for president)

[LudwigVonMisoSoup]

I see a lot of the following around here, and I'm hoping someone can clear this up for me. "Rand would probably win in 2012, but I want Ron to run." Why???

Bird in the hand, guys. Bird in the hand. Ron wants us to support ideas, not specific candidates. If Rand can win, we should push him to run. Can we really afford 4 more years of Obama, or god forbid, 4 years of Romney/Huckster/Gingrich? The liberty movement needs a young candidate to take the reins. Better in 2012 than 2016.

[specsaregood]

I'll trust their judgment, i think at this point they must have discussed it together.

[ItsTime]

They are playing the media game, just like there is a good chance Trump wont run, Rand is milking the media for the attention and to bring up serious issues (unlike Trump).

[ctiger2]

I look at it this way. This suckers coming down no matter who's elected. If Ron wins in 2012, he can do his best to try and turn this ship around but in all likelihood the Govt collapses anyhow. Ron might get tossed out by the ignorant masses if he's in there. If someone else wins 2012 the Govt will collapse anyhow. At that point whoever's in office gets tossed and we can stick Rand in there!

[LudwigVonMisoSoup]

I'll trust their judgment, i think at this point they must have discussed it together.


They are playing the media game, just like there is a good chance Trump wont run, Rand is milking the media for the attention and to bring up serious issues (unlike Trump).

What do either of these have to do with supporters stating "Rand would win, but I want Ron to run?"

[ItsTime]

Because Rand is not going to run?

[sailingaway]

I don't think anyone actually thinks "Rand would win, but I want Ron to run".

But we vote for whom we want most, not who is most likely to win, or we'd vote for Romney, right?

If Ron doesn't want to run, I'd back Rand.

But if Rand were trying to push his Dad out, I wouldn't want to vote for him, period. That would indicate a dangerously ego driven personality, to me.

Happens, I don't think it is Rand pushing that viewpoint.

[LudwigVonMisoSoup]

I don't think anyone actually thinks "Rand would win, but I want Ron to run".

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?285295-Who-has-a-better-chance-of-winning-the-Republican-Presidential-nomination-Rand-or-Ron&p=3179906&viewfull=1#post3179906

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?286223-Senator-Rand-Paul-says-he-s-ready-to-run-in-2012-for-President.&p=3190942&viewfull=1#post3190942

Two quick examples I grabbed. Based on this poll (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=4410), it seems most agree that Rand has a better shot. But when you ask those same people, they'd rather Ron would run.

[sailingaway]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?285295-Who-has-a-better-chance-of-winning-the-Republican-Presidential-nomination-Rand-or-Ron&p=3179906&viewfull=1#post3179906

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?286223-Senator-Rand-Paul-says-he-s-ready-to-run-in-2012-for-President.&p=3190942&viewfull=1#post3190942

Two quick examples I grabbed. Based on this poll (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=4410), it seems most agree that Rand has a better shot. But when you ask those same people, they'd rather Ron would run.

I know some have said that, but I suspect they just mean that EVEN if you are right and Rand has a better shot, it doesn't mean he suits THEM better. There is another poll about 'who do you want to run' which has a different outcome.

I didn't vote in it, because so long as Ron is the one who decides, based on his own reasons, I'd back either. But I am losing a buzz over this race due to people fighting over who should run.

[TNforPaul45]

Because there are serious pros and cons to each scenario. Rand has a better chance of winning, but Ron is our ideological founder.

[cindy25]

Rand is a senator, senators are considered serious candidates, congressmen are not.

[sailingaway]

Rand is a senator, senators are considered serious candidates, congressmen are not.

Ron is, he's polling fourth or fifth nationwide and outraised all other candidates in the first quarter, just ended. They know he's a serious candidate. They just don't like it.

[cindy25]

Rand is telegenic; and unfortunately this is a factor. Nixon won the 1960 debates on radio; Kennedy won on TV.

all the Ron support would transfer to Rand anyway

[sailingaway]

all the Ron support would transfer to Rand anyway

I think that is the question. And if it appeared Ron were squeezed out, it might be tricky.

[QueenB4Liberty]

Ron is, he's polling fourth or fifth nationwide and outraised all other candidates in the first quarter, just ended. They know he's a serious candidate. They just don't like it.


Exactly.


And I know a lot of liberals who already despise Rand, who aren't from KY. I know a lot of Neocons who don't like Ron Paul, but I think we at least have a chance of getting progressives on board with him. I wish the left didn't Rand, because of course I would support them both. But the civil rights bullshit is still fresh in their minds.

[sailingaway]

Exactly.


And I know a lot of liberals who already despise Rand, who aren't from KY. I know a lot of Neocons who don't like Ron Paul, but I think we at least have a chance of getting progressives on board with him. I wish the left didn't Rand, because of course I would support them both. But the civil rights bullshit is still fresh in their minds.

Ron does better with independents and Dems. Rand with GOP who haven't seen him demonized in a primary, just a general. That demonization WOULD still occur, but as a Senator, and with his Dad's support and his own, he'd have some tools to combat it that Ron didn't have in the beginning. I think it is just different people, not necessarily more people. However, in a GOP primary, it may well give him an edge, I don't know. That isn't the point, to me.

[QueenB4Liberty]

Ron does better with independents and Dems. Rand with GOP who haven't seen him demonized in a primary, just a general. That demonization WOULD still occur, but as a Senator, and with his Dad's support and his own, he'd have some tools to combat it that Ron didn't have in the beginning. I think it is just different people, not necessarily more people. However, in a GOP primary, it may well give him an edge, I don't know. That isn't the point, to me.


Yeah, I see your point. I guess if we could just get Rand the GOP nomination he would slam Obama.

[sailingaway]

Yeah, I see your point. I guess if we could just get Rand the GOP nomination he would slam Obama.

LOL!

That wasn't actually my point. My point is that this is Ron's year and Ron's organization and Ron's supporters who have been waiting and lining up to support him, and it has to be Ron's decision.

IF Rand would have an edge in the GOP Primary (which I don't know, I think Ron is better in debates, still,) then RON might take that into consideration in his decision. And if Ron wants to work on his committee and spend less time flying around the country, then I'd respect that. The man has certainly done his share. But it would have to come from Ron, for me. I think Rand MIGHT have a better chance of getting more GOP votes if we don't get independents to register in droves, but I think Ron has a proven record of inspiring the next generation of activists and candidates. And maybe it takes someone a little more 'extreme seeming' (or purist, depending on your point of view) to do that.

They both have their best points. We are lucky to have two such as they.

[QueenB4Liberty]

LOL!

That wasn't actually my point. My point is that this is Ron's year and Ron's organization and Ron's supporters who have been waiting and lining up to support him, and it has to be Ron's decision.

IF Rand would have an edge in the GOP Primary (which I don't know, I think Ron is better in debates, still,) then RON might take that into consideration in his decision. And if Ron wants to work on his committee and spend less time flying around the country, then I'd respect that. The man has certainly done his share. But it would have to come from Ron, for me.

Yeah I realize that. lol I see where you are coming from.

[Kotin]

They are playing the media game, just like there is a good chance Trump wont run, Rand is milking the media for the attention and to bring up serious issues (unlike Trump).

This is what I think as well.