Ayn Rand

[Carehn]

What do you guys all think of this chick? She was kind of a Bitch, but I love her work. Iv heard that her and the boys like misses and such had some problems but i don't know what.

I also remember her calling Libertarians the hippies of the right. Funny but i don't understand why. Aside from IP rights and the God issue they had little to disagree on.

Any of you out there reed her? Atlas is a beast of a book. Im thinking this movie will suck though.

Anyway i just wanted to get an idea of how people on this site feel about her.

aside from the hole bitch issue i gotta say i like her.

[specsaregood]

aside from the hole bitch issue i gotta say i like her.

why do you like her? what specifically?

[doodle]

Other than few gaps in her thinking on equality between arabs and jews, she seems semi ok.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldyVDbpxpmg

She seems ignorant of the fact that Nazis were quite advanced technologically.

[acptulsa]

As a person, I couldn't care less. Go to the trouble to read Atlas Shrugged.

[TheeJoeGlass]

Just another NeoCon.

[Carehn]

As a person, I couldn't care less. Go to the trouble to read Atlas Shrugged.
i have and i liked it very well done. I have recommended it.

why do you like her? what specifically?
I liked how she was such a bitch. lol. and her mind. Wonderful thoughts, she didn't seem to care to much about pissing people off. More abstract then most libertarian minds. I only really disagree with her on IP rights. I think thats why she supposably didn't like old rothbard. That and i do think an anacho state is possible while she did not. I think at least. I want to know what you guys think

[FrankRep]

Just another NeoCon.

How the hell is Ayn Rand a Neocon?

[Wesker1982]

I agree with a lot of what she says but it seems like she believes in collective guilt.

[Carehn]

Just another NeoCon.

Thats also what i want to know. You see, i would not call her a neocon or anything but ayn rand. I don't think the neocons today would find much to agree with her on. and i know she was not one of them, but she was not a libertarian or anything else. She kinda has her own classification. Thats why im bringing it up.

[JamesButabi]

I don't know much about her personally, but im < 100 pages from finishing Atlas Shrugged and its a gem.

[FrankRep]

I agree with a lot of what she says but it seems like she believes in collective guilt.

How is that? She is one of the leaders in the anti-Collectivist movement.

[Wesker1982]

How is that? She is one of the leaders in the anti-Collectivist movement.

Yeah I know, thats why its a bit funny? I saw a youtube video where she was saying the U.S.A should bomb the Middle East, or something along those lines. IIRC she made it seem like she is bias against them because of the group they belong to.

[FrankRep]

Yeah I know, thats why its a bit funny? I saw a youtube video where she was saying the U.S.A should bomb the Middle East, or something along those lines. IIRC she made it seem like she is bias against them because of the group they belong to.

Ayn Rand never said to bomb the Middle East.

Ayn Rand said she supports Israel because, basically, Israel is advanced technologically and the Arab culture embraces terrorism. Arab culture is collectivist, not Ayn Rand.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uHSv1asFvU

[JoshLowry]

Arab culture embraces terrorismPlease define terrorism.

Is a person that repels foreign invaders a true terrorist? Is that what they are embracing?

How many "arabs" embrace the slaughter of an innocent?

You are walking a fine line Frank.

[FrankRep]

Please define terrorism.

Is a person that repels foreign invaders a true terrorist? Is that what they are embracing?

You are walking a fine line Frank.


I was paraphrasing Ayn Rand.

[JoshLowry]

Arab culture is collectivist, not Ayn Rand.

Your final sentence is made of your own thoughts.

What do you think they collectively represent?

[Wesker1982]

the Arab culture embraces terrorism. Arab culture is collectivist, not Ayn Rand.

But not all Arabs embrace terrorism though. Judging a whole culture by the actions of a few is collectivist.


Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather that individuals... By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so called 'diversity' actually perpetuate racism. Their obsession with racial group identity is inherently racist... We should understand that racism will endure until we stop thinking in terms of groups and begin thinking in terms of individual liberty. - Ron Paul

[FrankRep]

But not all Arabs embrace terrorism though. Judging a whole culture by the actions of a few is collectivist.

You missed the keyword: CULTURE

[leipo]

I thought neocons were bad, but those randites are even worse..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoAWCwm-UXw

[JCLibertarian]

Yeah I know, thats why its a bit funny? I saw a youtube video where she was saying the U.S.A should bomb the Middle East, or something along those lines. IIRC she made it seem like she is bias against them because of the group they belong to.

She just said she personally supported Israel. But she opposed World War I. She also opposed every American excursion in her lifetime, including World War Two, the Korean War, and Vietnam.
http://ariwatch.com/AynRandOnWWII.htm

She is probably one of the most influential libertarians ever. I can't say she was the one who influenced me to be libertarian, Ron Paul was. However, I know many people who became libertarians or at least libertarian leaning after reading her works. I know she had some problems with the Libertarian Party(as do I), and quarreled with Murray Rothbard during the 60s of certain refined intellectual points in Libertarian Philosophy. But to be honest, she is probably the singular reason Libertarianism survived relatively speaking in some "mainstream" political circles(at least the language did). So I don't see why everyone rags on her or calls her a Neo-Con.

[FrankRep]

Your final sentence is made of your own thoughts.

What do you think they collectively represent?

Because Religion and Culture is Collectivist.

[JoshLowry]

You didn't answer my questions or define terrorism.

Stop dancing around the controversial statements you make.

[JCLibertarian]

I think Arabs collectively represent Arabs, at least ethnically speaking(Because they are scientifically a Caucasian/White Ethnicity). Beyond that, their is not one definitive Arab culture, I would say the Shia Muslims in Lebanon are very different from Coptic Christians in say North Africa, though they share they same ethnicity.

[low preference guy]

You didn't answer my questions or define terrorism.

Stop dancing around the controversial statements you make.

Frank does that all the time. He is the master of evasion. It's like he is afraid of his own thoughts.

[Carehn]

LOL. i started something!!!

I don't think pekoff or however you spell it is ayn rand. But at times he is funny.

Aside from her picking sides in a very old family feud in a philosophical question. As far as her major work goes what do you all think. Please don't reply if you have never read her books. That would be stupid. What do you guys think of her philosophy as she called it?

[acptulsa]

Atlas Shrugged is a novel. People will tell you it advocates the philosophy. It shows people who have it and people who don't, and the people with the work ethic are the good guys. It's kind of a terse style, like old 'Fifties science fiction, but readable. It's long.

P.S. And I don't think it would be a spoiler if I mentioned that everyone gets what they think they want in the end.

[specsaregood]

Most libertarian folk seem like cool cats and are easy to get along with. Objectivists on the otherhand always come off as assholes that I'd rather punch in the ear than hang out with.

[low preference guy]

Most libertarian folk seem like cool cats and are easy to get along with. Objectivists on the otherhand always come off as assholes that I'd rather punch in the ear than hang out with.

I think there might be a few like that, but I doubt the reason is the philosophy. Maybe they were assholes even before reading Ayn Rand, and now are not as big assholes. I consider myself an Objectivist in the sense that I agree with all her fundamental principles, even though I don't agree with how she applied the principles in every case (e.g., libel laws, foreign policy, IP).

[Carehn]

Most libertarian folk seem like cool cats and are easy to get along with. Objectivists on the otherhand always come off as assholes that I'd rather punch in the ear than hang out with.

This is what im talking about!!! Why is my question. I cant figure it all out. As far as most issues go they would agree. it has something to do with the reason they agree being different.

What is it that makes them so dif? why all the bad blood?

Thats my question WHY ALL THE BAD BLOOD?

[low preference guy]

Thats my question WHY ALL THE BAD BLOOD?

I don't see it that way. Lots of libertarians who even don't call themselves objectivists like Atlas Shrugged, and many self-described Objectivists, even associated with the Ayn Rand institute, supported tea partiers even if they disagree with them on a bunch of issues. It's mostly the big names who fight each other, like Rothbard, who wrote a play just to make fun of Ayn Rand, and Ayn Rand accused Rothbard of plagiarizing the work of somebody else. Mises and Ayn Rand got along great and were mutual fans, and although Mises had a different epistemology from Rand's, she still publicized his works because they were valuable in other ways.

[specsaregood]

I think there might be a few like that, but I doubt the reason is the philosophy. Maybe they were assholes even before reading Ayn Rand, and now are not as big assholes. I consider myself an Objectivist in the sense that I agree with all her fundamental principles, even though I don't agree with how she applied the principles in every case (e.g., libel laws, foreign policy, IP).

fair enough. maybe that philosophy attracts assholes as well. certainly not all objectivists are douches.

[low preference guy]

fair enough. maybe that philosophy attracts assholes as well. certainly not all objectivists are douches.

I'm going to say I feel differently about this as well. I think what attracts assholes is her novels. There is a lot of resentment and even irrationality in Atlas Shurgged that I think is a reflection of flaws in Ayn Rand's personality. But I separate the philosophy from her personality or her artistic output. The philosophy I think is very logical.

[Carehn]

I'm going to say I feel differently about this as well. I think what attracts assholes is her novels. There is a lot of resentment and even irrationality in Atlas Shurgged that I think is a reflection of flaws in Ayn Rand's personality. But I separate the philosophy from her personality or her artistic output. The philosophy I think is very logical.

This!!! This is good. Never thought of it that way. Rand would hate you for calling her human. You bastard!

Like the post

[FrankRep]

You didn't answer my questions or define terrorism.

Stop dancing around the controversial statements you make.

Again, I was paraphrasing Ayn Rand.


This is what she says:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uHSv1asFvU

[libertyjam]

Thats also what i want to know. You see, i would not call her a neocon or anything but ayn rand. I don't think the neocons today would find much to agree with her on. and i know she was not one of them, but she was not a libertarian or anything else. She kinda has her own classification. Thats why im bringing it up.

That Classification is called Objectivism, a political movement largely based on Rand's philosophy. You can find Objectivist websites and forums online just like this one. You are right there are many overlaps of Objectivism and libertarianism, several on this web site are probably Objectivists whether they know it or not. Yes she did not agree with any types of the Anarchists. She came from the place where anarchists were a significant part of the downfall of the existing government and how they were used and usurped, so she didn't really trust them I think even with lofty intentions.

[Lothario]

Ayn Rand was a brilliant mind and is the single reason I came to know and support Ron Paul.

[White Bear Lake]

As a novel, I loved Atlas shrugged and it sits on my desk right next to the Mises, Hayek, Rothbard, and Ron Paul books.

I'm not a fan of Objectivism. I think the difference between Objectivism and Libertarianism is as libertarians we use our views on economics to guide our philosophy while objectivists use their philosophy to guide their economic thought. I'm not sure I expressed that clearly but I think that is the source of the friction between the two groups despite the many overlaps in thinking.