Wouldn't Privatized Prisons Work Better Than State/Government Prisons?

[AGRP]

Wouldn't they do their best to do what it took to make sure their re-offender rate was the lowest possible?

This assumes the state actually wants a low re-offender rate.

Edit: The lowest repeat offender rate would get the contract.

[goldencane]

I don't think so. More people in prison means more money.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I don't think so. More people in prison means more money.

BINGO!

People sentenced to private prisons are pushed to break rules to extend their term - the motive is profit!

They basically have a slave that will keep making them money - why would they want to loose that?

[TheNcredibleEgg]

Edit: The lowest repeat offender rate would get the contract.


In our crony system, that wouldn't be the reality. The prison which makes the largest campaign donation would get the contract - possibly a no bid contract.

And that prison would want lots and lots of inmates - in order to have more money to give even larger donations next campaign cycle.

[nayjevin]

Presumably reputation keeps the system in check. The court/judge/arbiter doesn't want to be known to send people to rehabilitation facilities which do not actually rehabilitate, for then no one would choose that court/judge/arbiter. In the hybrid system we have in America, this is the importance of state sovereignty, county sovereignty, township sovereignty. We can evade tyrannical court systems if we choose, or lobby and participate in activism to mend the apparatus.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I have heard that PA has lots of this type problems w/ juvenile offenders. A judge got busted for corruption....

[VIDEODROME]

It depends on how much authority they have. I guess it would be like contracting out the prison to a private entity and just paying them to contain all these inmates. They should have nothing to do with evaluating things like parole.

It might work but it could just as easily turn into something really stupid. Like a private prison site being developed as the latest reality TV show.

[Zippyjuan]

Then you get prisons like the one in Arizona where they get bologna sandwiches every day and tents to sleep in (in 120 degrees!) curtesy of Joe Aprio.

. http://articles.cnn.com/1999-07-27/us/9907_27_tough.sheriff_1_prison-guards-inmate-joe-arpaio?_s=PM:US

MARICOPA COUNTY, Arizona CNN

The tent city looks like a military camp in the desert, with thick canvas sleeping quarters spreading out in a remote area of Arizona.

The inhabitants, however, are not soldiers, but residents of an unusual, some say brutal, prison run by legendary lawman Joe Arpaio, called the toughest sheriff in the West.

For the Maricopa County sheriff, who opened the nations largest tent prison in 1993, saving taxpayer pennies matters more than comforting convicted felons.

We took away coffee, that saved 150,000 a year. Why do you need coffee in jail says Arpaio, patrolling the dusty, barren grounds. Switched to bologna sandwiches, that saved half a million dollars a year.

Arpaio makes inmates pay for their meals, which some say are worse than those for the guard dogs. Canines eat 1.10 worth of food a day, the inmate 90 cents, the sheriff says. Im very proud of that too.

Critics rail against harsh conditions in the prison, where temperatures can top 100 degrees.
We still have rights, but they act like were scum, one inmate complains.

Adds Eleanor Eisenberg of the ACLU Sheriff Arpaio has conditions in his jail that are inhumane, and hes proud of it.

Arpaio boasts of his chain gangs for men and women, which contribute thousands of dollars of free labor to taxpayers each month, according to his Web site.

Pink underwear and bedtime stories

Inmates follow strict fashion and lifestyle guidelines. They are forced to wear oldfashioned prison stripes and pink underwear. Prohibited items include cigarettes, adult magazines, hot lunches and television except for his bedtime story reading, a selfstyled literacy program broadcast nightly to the inmates.

[BamaAla]

Not in that movie "Death Race!"

I'm with a few of the other posters; a system that profits from locking people up will probably seek to lock more people up.

[TheNcredibleEgg]

Then you get prisons like the one in Arizona where they get bologna sandwiches every day and tents to sleep in (in 120 degrees!) curtesy of Joe Aprio.



Correct me if I'm wrong - but that's a gov't run jail, not a private one.

[heavenlyboy34]

Then you get prisons like the one in Arizona where they get bologna sandwiches every day and tents to sleep in (in 120 degrees!) curtesy of Joe Aprio.

. http://articles.cnn.com/1999-07-27/us/9907_27_tough.sheriff_1_prison-guards-inmate-joe-arpaio?_s=PM:US

Joe's prisons aren't privatized, if that's what you are getting at. Joe is just another elected politician, and a pretty scummy one at that.

[heavenlyboy34]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but that's a gov't run jail, not a private one.
You are correct.

[heavenlyboy34]

Not in that movie "Death Race!"

I'm with a few of the other posters; a system that profits from locking people up will probably seek to lock more people up.

The problem here is that the prison managers do not (and would not in the thread hypothetical) set sentences. The thread seems to assume that the sentence is set by a DRO or some other private arbiter of justice.

[heavenlyboy34]

I don't think so. More people in prison means more money.

In a state run system, yes. However, in a privatized system, the unoccupied space would not be an eternal liability. The unused resources would be allocated in some other way-likely storage or something similar.

[specialK]

The problem here is that the prison managers do not (and would not in the thread hypothetical) set sentences. The thread seems to assume that the sentence is set by a DRO or some other private arbiter of justice.

Those who do set sentences can be easily motivated to set longer sentences by those who stand to profit.

[tangent4ronpaul]

In a state run system, yes. However, in a privatized system, the unoccupied space would not be an eternal liability. The unused resources would be allocated in some other way-likely storage or something similar.

WRONG! - unused space will be used to extend sentences for minor violations in order to extend profits.

[heavenlyboy34]

Those who do set sentences can be easily motivated to set longer sentences by those who stand to profit.

You mean prison owners could hypothetically bribe DROs? The problem I see with that is that DROs, unlike government courts, are accountable for their actions. They thus have a motive for being just in sentencing-losing customers and potentially going out of business. Remember, DRO operators aren't life appointees or political figures.

[tangent4ronpaul]

You need to do more research - this happens daily!

[heavenlyboy34]

WRONG! - unused space will be used to extend sentences for minor violations in order to extend profits.

False. The prison doesn't set sentences in the scenario we're discussing. They have no ability to extend sentences. The sentencing is done by the DRO.

ETA: In no way does a private prison benefit from having more prisoners. More prisoners means more costs in terms of food, clothing, utilities, employees, etc. Unlike the state-system which passes the cost to taxpayers, the private system would be forced to economize, preventing excessive/unnecessary sentencing.

[heavenlyboy34]

You need to do more research - this happens daily!

In the current system, yes. But that is not what we're discussing.

[tangent4ronpaul]

They can extend sentences if a prisoner "misbehaves" - and they make sure they DO!

[TheNcredibleEgg]

False. The prison doesn't set sentences in the scenario we're discussing. They have no ability to extend sentences. The sentencing is done by the DRO.

Wouldn't the prison be making hefty campaign donations tho every year to the politicians (and some judges) who do set sentences?

Also - what the heck does DRO mean?

[nayjevin]

Probably prisons don't serve as good means of restitution, and wouldn't be used.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Wouldn't the prison be making hefty campaign donations tho every year to the politicians (and some judges) who do set sentences?

Also - what the heck does DRO mean?

the ration is like 1:10,000 as to profit ration...

[TheNcredibleEgg]

the ration is like 1:10,000 as to profit ration...

Ok - but tell me what DRO means also.

Pls. It's going to drive me crazy.

[heavenlyboy34]

Wouldn't the prison be making hefty campaign donations tho every year to the politicians (and some judges) who do set sentences?

Also - what the heck does DRO mean?

DRO means Dispute Resolution Organization (a term coined by Molyneux that is applied generally to free market private defense companies)

Since the owners of DROs/private courts are not elected, they would not be subject to the corruption you describe. They would be accountable to subscribers and investors. A DRO that behaves unjustly will lose money-unlike a government court which has no real incentive to be just.

[TheNcredibleEgg]

DRO means Dispute Resolution Organization (a term coined by Molyneux that is applied generally to free market private defense companies)

Since the owners of DROs/private courts are not elected, they would not be subject to the corruption you describe. They would be accountable to subscribers and investors. A DRO that behaves unjustly will lose money-unlike a government court which has no real incentive to be just.

Thanks (sane again.)

I've never heard of that acronym and couldn't even find it on Google.

[Galileo Galilei]

Wouldn't they do their best to do what it took to make sure their re-offender rate was the lowest possible?

This assumes the state actually wants a low re-offender rate.

Edit: The lowest repeat offender rate would get the contract.

A private prison would not follow the 8th amendment.

[cornbread]

when you stick a 1000 men in a compound,with nothing but time and and being treated like shit,looked down on,like your nothing,something you carry with you the rest of your life,and they do profit,the government does nothing that theres not profit,so what does that say about us as people.

[tangent4ronpaul]

when you stick a 1000 men in a compound,with nothing but time and and being treated like shit,looked down on,like your nothing,something you carry with you the rest of your life,and they do profit,the government does nothing that theres not profit,so what does that say about us as people.

The gvmt looks at us as cattle?

-t

[LibForestPaul]

So the state has a monopoly on enforcement. The state has a monopoly on administration. The state has monopoly on sentencing. The state has unlimited funds for prosecuting. Yet, at the end of criminal hearing, now we get the private industry involved. Would private police work better, Or private courts? After we have private police, working well, and private judges, then discussion of private prisons can start.

[tangent4ronpaul]

So the state has a monopoly on enforcement. The state has a monopoly on administration. The state has monopoly on sentencing. The state has unlimited funds for prosecuting. Yet, at the end of criminal hearing, now we get the private industry involved. Would private police work better, Or private courts? After we have private police, working well, and private judges, then discussion of private prisons can start.

If you think we have corruption now..... :rolleyes:

[Flash]

Privatizing prisons under our current Statist system isn't a wise idea. All that would do is give incentive for more people (Prison owners) to fight against the legalization of non-violent crimes.

[pcosmar]

I don't think so. More people in prison means more money.

BINGO!

People sentenced to private prisons are pushed to break rules to extend their term - the motive is profit!

They basically have a slave that will keep making them money - why would they want to loose that?


If you think we have corruption now..... :rolleyes:

Exactly. The profit motive only insures more and more of the same.
Prisons should be prohibitively expensive. And only used as a necessary last resort for the worst offenders.
They should also be maintained locally, so the local society has a personal stake in their expense and use.

[Dreamofunity]

You should look into Daniel D'Amico's work.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRDlCgNm2KM

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

I don't think so. More people in prison means more money.

Pretty much. Go read about the Prison Industrial Complex.

[treyfu]

A few points:
1. Keep in mind that in a free society, DROs, arbiters, and prison owners, etc are liable for their offenses against criminals. Thus any mistreatment of people would cost them.

2. A free society breeds a just society, which means there is a focus on restitution to the victim as opposed to punishment for the offender. This reinforces the necessity to create situations that provide that restitution in the most efficient and effective way possible, which would naturally restrain the mistreatment of offenders (extending "sentencing", etc.).

3. DROs/insurance companies have a vested interest in "rehabilitation" of offenders and in recovering the restitution monies that were paid to the victim immediately after the crime was committed. An offender who comes out of a restitution program (whatever that may be) having been abused is more likely to be a repeat offender, which is a liability for the DRO/insurance company. Their interest in recovering the restitution monies is obvious.

[Icymudpuppy]

They can extend sentences if a prisoner "misbehaves" - and they make sure they DO!

If sentences are set only in court, and there are no "victimless crimes", then misbehavior is not a sentenceable offense.