Abolishing agencies, etc

[tangent4ronpaul]

From another thread:


Once upon a time, there was a thing called the Interstate Commerce Commission. It was founded to prevent kamikaze capitalism amongst railroads in a day when their efficiencies and primitive technology pretty much guaranteed them a monopoly in viable transportation.

The best thing Reagan did, in my opinion, and the one time I felt some hope for a moment that he would prove to be the libertarian he claimed to be, was when he abolished this bureau. But it was a decade too late to save the passenger train.

How did Reagan do this?

I'm wondering about how Paul could do the same...

[acptulsa]

Generally you repeal the law that created the bureau.

And hope you're enjoying that other thread. :)

[Stary Hickory]

70% of these bureaus and agencies could be abolished an no one would be the wiser if there was not a coordinated propaganda effot by ther MSM. If they simply stopped exisiting no one would even noitce....hell most government workers do nothing anyways...so if they just stopped being there at all it would be very little difference. On the contrary we would see lass taxation and less bureaucratic unconstitutional regulations.

The same tactic is used everytime anyone proposes to cut anything, people yell and scream that the sky will fall....

[kahless]

70% of these bureaus and agencies could be abolished an no one would be the wiser if there was not a coordinated propaganda effot by ther MSM. If they simply stopped exisiting no one would even noitce....hell most government workers do nothing anyways...so if they just stopped being there at all it would be very little difference. On the contrary we would see lass taxation and less bureaucratic unconstitutional regulations.

The same tactic is used everytime anyone proposes to cut anything, people yell and scream that the sky will fall....

I agree, no one would even notice particularly if there was a transition to privatization of such things like the post office. The people that would be screaming the sky is falling would be the MSM which presents are largest obstacle to reducing the size of government. The MSM is the 4th branch and propaganda arm of big government.

Nothing is going to change unless this movement starts buying media outlets to a point that we are the MSM.

[Zippyjuan]

Reagan also promised to get rid of the Department of Energy and of Education but instead their budgets grew- even doubling. He added the Department of Veterans Affairs. http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=488

[acptulsa]

Most of them take our money, skim some for their own salaries and expenses, and redistribute it to state and local agencies according to how said locals jump through the federal hoops. Few federal bureaus have 'boots on the ground' helping, or educating, or whatever.

[Stary Hickory]

Reagan also promised to get rid of the Department of Energy and of Education but instead their budgets grew- even doubling. He added the Department of Veterans Affairs. http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=488

Reagan was not king in fact he had a lefty controlled congress. He made many concessions, but certainly he wanted to do quite a lot. I am not sure exactly what you are attempting to say here.

[fisharmor]

Few federal bureaus have 'boots on the ground' helping, or educating, or whatever.

Well... there's the FBI, ATF, DEA....
...there are plenty of federal "boots on the ground" when the boots are generally used to kick some heads in.
Not so much when they're supposed to be helping.

[AFPVet]

He added the Department of Veterans Affairs. http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=488

They tried to reduce veteran's benefits and got into trouble with the Court since the Constitution's Due Process Clause recognizes veteran benefits as property rights which are earned.

In regards to federal law enforcement, they claim that the Necessary and Proper Clause authorizes any agency to be made to carry out the enumerated powers; however, the Constitution explicitly states under Section 8, Clause 15 that the Militia is responsible for enforcing federal laws.

[tangent4ronpaul]

So, can a prez unilaterally repeal a law?

It' seems like Bush axed a bunch of "obsolete laws" when he came into office, but that's never been clear

They have the power to veto - but after the fact?

[acptulsa]

So, can a prez unilaterally repeal a law?

It' seems like Bush axed a bunch of "obsolete laws" when he came into office, but that's never been clear

They have the power to veto - but after the fact?

None of the above. Repealing a law is basically the same as passing one. Either is done by passing a Bill.

[kahless]

Looks pretty simple for one to easily end the deficit without touching social security and medicare. Then selling it to the people that way as to not to allow the media to say the least among us are being victimized by the cuts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_federal_budget

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/Fy2010_spending_by_category.jpg


Mandatory spending: $2.009 trillion (-20.1%)
$695 billion (+4.9%) – Social Security
$571 billion (−15.2%) – Other mandatory programs
$453 billion (+6.6%) – Medicare
$290 billion (+12.0%) – Medicaid
$164 billion (+18.0%) – Interest on National Debt
$11 billion (+275%) – Potential disaster costs
$0 billion (−100%) – Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP)
$0 billion (−100%) – Financial stabilization efforts

US receipt and expenditure estimates for fiscal year 2010.Discretionary spending: $1.368 trillion (+13.1%)
$663.7 billion (+12.7%) – Department of Defense (including Overseas Contingency Operations)
$78.7 billion (−1.7%) – Department of Health and Human Services
$72.5 billion (+2.8%) – Department of Transportation
$52.5 billion (+10.3%) – Department of Veterans Affairs
$51.7 billion (+40.9%) – Department of State and Other International Programs
$47.5 billion (+18.5%) – Department of Housing and Urban Development
$46.7 billion (+12.8%) – Department of Education
$42.7 billion (+1.2%) – Department of Homeland Security
$26.3 billion (−0.4%) – Department of Energy
$26.0 billion (+8.8%) – Department of Agriculture
$23.9 billion (−6.3%) – Department of Justice
$18.7 billion (+5.1%) – National Aeronautics and Space Administration
$13.8 billion (+48.4%) – Department of Commerce
$13.3 billion (+4.7%) – Department of Labor
$13.3 billion (+4.7%) – Department of the Treasury
$12.0 billion (+6.2%) – Department of the Interior
$10.5 billion (+34.6%) – Environmental Protection Agency
$9.7 billion (+10.2%) – Social Security Administration
$7.0 billion (+1.4%) – National Science Foundation
$5.1 billion (−3.8%) – Corps of Engineers
$5.0 billion (+100%) – National Infrastructure Bank
$1.1 billion (+22.2%) – Corporation for National and Community Service
$0.7 billion (0.0%) – Small Business Administration
$0.6 billion (−14.3%) – General Services Administration
$19.8 billion (+3.7%) – Other Agencies
$105 billion – Other

[ds21089]

Looks pretty simple for one to easily end the deficit without touching social security and medicare. Then selling it to the people that way as to not to allow the media to say the least among us are being victimized by the cuts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_federal_budget

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/Fy2010_spending_by_category.jpg

Another factor is how much of all these departments is actual waste / money going elsewhere? If we were to audit all of these, I bet we could take the numbers of each one of these down by a lot BEFORE even having to cut one thing. I mean obviously we can remove the departments that are completely useless, but I'm sure there's waste to be found to help avoid cutting the ones people rely on.

[tangent4ronpaul]

None of the above. Repealing a law is basically the same as passing one. Either is done by passing a Bill.

Do you seriously think Congress would repeal anything it's created?

[acptulsa]

Another factor is how much of all these departments is actual waste / money going elsewhere? If we were to audit all of these, I bet we could take the numbers of each one of these down by a lot BEFORE even having to cut one thing.

Undoubtedly. But, around here at least, we all know how useless they are. So, if you want us to take a scalpel in trade for the hatchet, you have the wrong crowd.

We don't want a fifty million dollar audit. What we want would only require a fifty thousand dollar bulldozer.


Do you seriously think Congress would repeal anything it's created?

Depends how many Ron Pauls we get elected. Dude opened this thread quoting me giving a precedent. A real precedent. It can be done.

[pcosmar]

I generally address these questions with Facts, Logic, and Honesty.

and when the questioner rejects those I settle for ridicule and verbal abuse.
:(

[acptulsa]

I like to insert Examples of how Their Goals Can Be Achieved Without Federal Interference as a nice Step Two.

But if they start out ridiculing us, I have a hard time not skipping straight to Step Three.

[kahless]

From that detail above just browsing through I was able to simply cut $933 billion. Nothing that would directly effect the majority of Americans. The rest it looks like a scapel is needed but I think it could be done without freaking out the MSM if social security, medicare or the VA was touched.

Cut / Remaining

-554 100 Department of Defense
-70 8 Department of Health (keep the CDC, eliminate all else)
-50 2 Department of State
-48 0 Department of Housing and Urban Development
-47 0 Department of Education
-14 0 Department of Commerce
-12 1 Department of Labor
-12 1 Department of Treasury (eliminate IRS)
-1.1 0 Corporation for Nationala dn Community Service
-20 0 Other Agencies
-105 0 Other

-933 Billion dollar cut.

[AFPVet]

Obviously, something needs to be done... and reducing the size of government is the logical step.

[tangent4ronpaul]

From that detail above just browsing through I was able to simply cut $933 billion. Nothing that would directly effect the majority of Americans. The rest it looks like a scapel is needed but I think it could be done without freaking out the MSM if social security, medicare or the VA was touched.

Cut / Remaining

-554 100 Department of Defense
-70 8 Department of Health (keep the CDC, eliminate all else)
-50 2 Department of State
-48 0 Department of Housing and Urban Development
-47 0 Department of Education
-14 0 Department of Commerce
-12 1 Department of Labor
-12 1 Department of Treasury (eliminate IRS)
-1.1 0 Corporation for Nationala dn Community Service
-20 0 Other Agencies
-105 0 Other

-933 Billion dollar cut.

Congress puts DoD right up there as untouchable with Social Security

State is Constitutional

Commerce is arguably constitutional :(

Treasury (coin money) is constitutional, and they would laugh at you if you suggested cutting IRS.