The Constitution is Not Perfect - We Need the SEC & FDA

[Lothario]

When people are convinced that we need government oversight, and I raise the argument for their unconstitutionality - what is the appropriate response to the "well the constitution is far from perfect - look at how blacks were originally viewed" argument? Is it simply to point out that there is a method to amending the constitution, and if you feel government oversight is necessary, then the constitution should be amended to reflect that - but as of now it is unconstitutional. What if such amendments ever took place?

[acptulsa]

The Eighteenth subjected our drinking habits to one hell of a lot of oversight. While it lasted. Long and the short of it on that end is, if we ignore the Constitution then other people will ignore the Constitution--and then they'll start convicting us for crimes that never happened. Habeus corpus is good.

Unfortunately, much of that kind of stuff was set up to promote interstate commerce and/or the 'general welfare'. So, better study up, or when you come across someone who can actually debate you will be ready.

Welcome! We can help. Hang around.

[tangent4ronpaul]

The SEC wouldn't be at the top of my list of agencies to abolish, and they might even do some good...

The FDA has done nothing but harm! - Abolish it already!

"commerce" and "general welfare" clauses... that's tickling my brain - wasn't the Supreme Court looking at a case addressing the Constitutionality of one of those, as used as a pretext to shove stuff down our throats?

Never heard what happened...

[kahless]

The SEC wouldn't be at the top of my list of agencies to abolish, and they might even do some good...

The FDA has done nothing but harm! - Abolish it already!

"commerce" and "general welfare" clauses... that's tickling my brain - wasn't the Supreme Court looking at a case addressing the Constitutionality of one of those, as used as a pretext to shove stuff down our throats?

Never heard what happened...

I believe anyone should be able to buy any drug they wish without the FDA preventing it. I however disagree that "they have done nothing but harm". I do see some good come out of having the FDA as far as drug safety. The worst case being identifying counterfeit drugs and regulations so that production comes from inspected facilities in a clean environment. This as opposed to some guy in a mud hut, dirt floor, using dirty water with his dirty hands and using anti-freeze or toxic fillers. Perhaps just keep FDA regulations and inspections but allow people to buy products without the FDA stamp of approval.

I suppose this could also be an independent agency with private funding from companies who pay a fee to get the stamp of approval.

[tangent4ronpaul]

What good are "safe" drugs if people can't afford them?

Why can't people afford them? - the FDA regulations.

Example - some years ago, I priced 1,000 cipro tabs made in India from a overseas supplier that sells to relief organizations

your fake drug argument is a no-go. People don't counterfeit things that are cheap. There is no profit in it.

A companies reputation should be your assurance - not the FDA hoops.

[acptulsa]

Back to the topic, the Constitution is not perfect, any more than any other thing created by man. But the Constitution, as amended, does not in fact permit slavery, and that's the condition in which it should be judged. It's also the only protection we have from the federal government. And even though you think everyone in the government loves you and wants you to be happy, you didn't feel that way when Cheney was still hanging around.

[Jack Bauer]

The constitution is not perfect.

It gives too much power to the government.

[sailingaway]

The head of the FDA used to work for Monsanto, didn't he? How about discussing 'regulatory capture' how the SEC was respectful of Maddow and never caught him, and how more local government is more responsive to the people?

[acptulsa]

Tom Vilsak used to be CEO of Monsanto, and is now Obama's Secretary of Agriculture.

[heavenlyboy34]

The constitution is not perfect.

It gives too much power to the government.
qft :cool:

[angelatc]

The SEC adds no value to the system. If it were abolished, small businesses could raise money without going through bankers.

[sailingaway]

Tom Vilsak used to be CEO of Monsanto, and is now Obama's Secretary of Agriculture.

meh, Agriculture, FDA..... :o

[acptulsa]

//

"Never was a country in the throes of more capital letters than the old U.S.A., but we still haven't sent out the S.O.S."--Will Rogers

[cswake]

When people are convinced that we need government oversight, and I raise the argument for their unconstitutionality - what is the appropriate response to the "well the constitution is far from perfect - look at how blacks were originally viewed" argument? Is it simply to point out that there is a method to amending the constitution, and if you feel government oversight is necessary, then the constitution should be amended to reflect that - but as of now it is unconstitutional. What if such amendments ever took place?

I think Washington recognizing that the Amendment process is legally necessary would be a quantum leap from where we are now.

[kahless]

What good are "safe" drugs if people can't afford them?

Why can't people afford them? - the FDA regulations.

Example - some years ago, I priced 1,000 cipro tabs made in India from a overseas supplier that sells to relief organizations

your fake drug argument is a no-go. People don't counterfeit things that are cheap. There is no profit in it.



In fact they do and it has become big business. Pretty simply math if you can manufacturer a counterfeit pill for 5 cents as opposed to using the necessary ingredients costing you a dollar.

That is why I said that they should allow people to buy from unapproved sources and the FDA being privately funded. The consumer then has a choice to buy the approved product vs the non approved product which would likely be cheaper. People buying the approved version would know the drug passed the inspection process and was produced from a clean facility. This rather than risk taking a drug that might be ineffective or contaminated due to poor production methods.



A companies reputation should be your assurance - not the FDA hoops

Holding any business in this world to such high regard that it is immune from corruption is a very utopian point of view. Drug companies are no different from anything else on this planet so it is just like any other business transaction where one party seeks third party approval to ensure they are getting what they are paying for. If the company I am buying from does not have the stamp of approval I will move on to it's competition that does.

[fisharmor]

But the Constitution, as amended, does not in fact permit slavery, and that's the condition in which it should be judged.
The Constitution, as amended, absolutely does permit slavery. Read the amendment.


The constitution is not perfect.

It gives too much power to the government.

Winner.


"well the constitution is far from perfect - look at how blacks were originally viewed"

Viewed? Look what happens to them under the UNconstitutional drug war.
The constitution didn't make anybody in the 19th century whip anyone else.
The federal government IS making other people throw blacks into rape dungeons for trying to have a good time.

[low preference guy]

We Need the SEC & FDA

lol!

[ClayTrainor]

The constitution is not perfect.

It gives too much power to the government.

Yup. :cool:

[tangent4ronpaul]

I can't think of any pill that has more than 5 cents worth of raw materials in it. In fact, 5 cents is really pushing it.

as to drugs in general, vaccines might be an exception.

medicine is cheap to make, getting a drug approved is expensive, profits are HUGE!

[sailingaway]

meh, Agriculture, FDA..... :o

Ah, ha!! Ye of little faith!!


Obama Appoints Monsanto Man as FDA Food Safety Czar


Taylor is a familiar figure at the FDA. He began his career as a staff attorney at the agency in 1976. Then he worked for a decade at King & Spaulding, which represented Monsanto Corp., the agribusiness giant that developed genetically engineered corn, soybeans and bovine growth hormone.

He returned to the FDA in 1991 as deputy commissioner for policy and pushed through requirements that producers of seafood and juices adopt measures to prevent bacterial contamination. During the same period, the FDA approved Monsanto's bovine growth hormone, and Taylor was partly responsible for a controversial policy that said milk from BGH-treated cows did not have to be labeled as such. (read the entire article at link)

http://current.com/news/92009377_obama-appoints-monsanto-man-as-fda-food-safety-czar.htm

So, he was Monsanto's legal eagle.

And see this article specifically on Monsanto regulatory capture of the FDA, although I must say I know nothing in particular about this publication:

http://www.smart-publications.com/articles/view/lies-and-deception-how-the-fda-does-not-protect-your-best-interests/

[acptulsa]

Food fascism.

[South Park Fan]

Start at 0:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiyKoM4R0nA

As for the FDA, are they unaware of the thousands that die while the FDA takes years to "approve" (READ: accept bribes for) certain life-saving medications?

[treyfu]

Since you seem curious about the Constitution, you should read Lysander Spooner's analysis in No Treason: http://lysanderspooner.org/node/44

Hopefully this will shed some light.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

my response: "lmao"