Ayn Rand

[MLabreche]

I'm open to reading her work but please clear some possible misconceptions first.

1. Atlas Shrugged talks about very rich Americans that the governement wants to make a bit less rich with regulations and we're supposed to feel sorry for them.

2. Clear up these words from Ayn Rand:
"The Arabs are one of the least developed cultures. They are typically nomads. Their culture is primitive, and they resent Israel because it's the sole beachhead of modern science and civilization on their continent. When you have civilized men fighting savages, you support the civilized men, no matter who they are.

3. Her philosophy is the result of trauma caused to her family by communists and doesn't have anything to do with our reality.

4. She thinks altruism is a form of slavery.

Thanks in advance.

[Dreamofunity]

1. Basically.

2. She was an Israel-first kind of person.

3. Probably.

4. Altruism doesn't exist, in Rand's world. Forced 'altruism' is slavery.



Also, you'd be better off asking these questions here: http://forum.objectivismonline.net/

[FrankRep]

Ayn Rand on Israel and the Middle East


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uHSv1asFvU

[doodle]

She has written some useful stuff but it doesn't look like she believes in racial equality and the very basic principles of human liberty.

[emazur]

1. Atlas Shrugged is about very rich Americans (the moochers) who use government to club the competition of rich Americans who got that way by creativity, innovation, and hard work. The moochers not only make the competition much less rich, they drive the entire goddamn economy into the ground.

2. She's very anti-religion but seems to have a particular dislike of Islam. She makes points worth hearing out but should not be considered objective.

3. Ignoring her philosophy is what has brought about today's reality.

4. I don't know if she used the word 'slavery'. She doesn't like to admit it but she has benefited from altruism a few times in her life. This is the point she tries to make about altruism: altruism is often brought about by a society that calls for sacrifice and "It only stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings"

You can start with something short like the Mike Wallace/Ayn Rand interview (google it, the video is easy to find) or her very short novel Anthem, which can be obtained free legitimately b/c the copyright was not renewed (audio versions are available if you don't like reading onscreen). If those do it for you, I'd suggest moving on to Atlas Shrugged. Fountainhead is good but a distant second. We the Living I had trouble getting into but am willing to give it another shot. I recent biography of Rand that I enjoyed is called Ayn Rand and the World She Made

[low preference guy]

I'm open to reading her work but please clear some possible misconceptions first.

1. Atlas Shrugged talks about very rich Americans that the governement wants to make a bit less rich with regulations and we're supposed to feel sorry for them.

2. Clear up these words from Ayn Rand:

3. Her philosophy is the result of trauma caused to her family by communists and doesn't have anything to do with our reality.

4. She thinks altruism is a form of slavery.

Thanks in advance.

1. Wrong. The point is to show that the producers shouldn't feel guilty for being productive.

2. I think she was wrong on that. But that doesn't mean her philosophy is worthless. I think it's possible to have a good philosophy and make a mistake when applying it in one specific scenario.

3. I think the statement is hilarious. If you're serious about it, the burden of proof is on the person who made that statement.

4. I'd like to see the context and exact words before I comment on this one.

For what is worth, I think the best book to understand Rand's ethics is Viable Values (http://www.amazon.com/Viable-Values-Study-Reward-Morality/dp/0847697614) by Tara Smith.

[low preference guy]

She has written some useful stuff but it doesn't look like she believes in racial equality and the very basic principles of human liberty.

Regarding racial equality: Source?

Regarding basic principles of human liberty: She wants a government that protects individual rights. So what basic principle of human liberty does she not believe in?

[TroySmith]

She has written some useful stuff but it doesn't look like she believes in racial equality and the very basic principles of human liberty.

Her philosophy is basically the complete opposite of what this poster wrote. It's core is individualism. She was, by far, the greatest philosopher.

[Sola_Fide]

I'm open to reading her work but please clear some possible misconceptions first.

1. Atlas Shrugged talks about very rich Americans that the governement wants to make a bit less rich with regulations and we're supposed to feel sorry for them.

2. Clear up these words from Ayn Rand:

3. Her philosophy is the result of trauma caused to her family by communists and doesn't have anything to do with our reality.

4. She thinks altruism is a form of slavery.

Thanks in advance.

All those things you mentioned appear in the Donahue interview Ayn did.

She was a Russian Jew and was a little racist. From her philosophical foundation of naturalism, it was not particularly wrong to think "the more progress the man makes, the more human he is". Objectivism has its shortcomings philosophically.

I certainly don't agree that altruism is a form of slavery if it is voluntary. I do agree that this socialistic "forced altruism" we have today is slavery indeed.

But then again, Ayn didn't have the philosophical firepower to argue against forced slavery in the final sense. In a universe where man, not God, is the final authority in life, the issue of statist slavery vs. individual freedom comes down to who has the most guns and most money...

[low preference guy]

Her philosophy is basically the complete opposite of what this poster wrote. It's core is individualism.

I agree with this.

[low preference guy]

She was a Russian Jew and was a little racist.

Source? I think this is a pretty clear denunciation of racism:


Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism. It is the notion of ascribing moral, social or political significance to a man's genetic lineage -- the notion that a man's intellectual and characterological traits are produced and transmitted by his internal body chemistry. Which means, in practice, that a man is to be judged, not by his own character and actions, but by the characters and actions of a collective of ancestors.

Read the rest. (http://freedomkeys.com/ar-racism.htm)

EDIT: Another relevant part:


Even if it were proved -- which it is not -- that the incidence of men of potentially superior brain power is greater among the members of certain races than among the members of others, it would still tell us nothing about any given individual and it would be irrelevant to one's judgment of him.

[doodle]

Regarding racial equality: Source?



Based on her views, it appears she does not think arabs are as much of a chosen race in the eyes of G-d as jews. That's not kosher.

[low preference guy]

Based on her views, it appears she does not think arabs are as much of a chosen race in the eyes of G-d as jews. That's not kosher.

I don't think saying some cultures are more primitive than others is racist. Even Thomas Sowell says that, so I suppose you also believe Thomas Sowell is a racist.

Also, she didn't believe in God and didn't mention the Jews as being a superior culture. So the part in bold below is completely false.



Based on her views, it appears she does not think arabs are as much of a chosen race in the eyes of G-d as jews. That's not kosher.

[TortoiseDream]

1. I haven't read the entire novel yet, but from what I know Atlas Shrugged is a novel about the innovators and thinkers and productive members of society leaving society when they are no longer able to keep the fruits of their labor. In a broader context, Rand is trying to say that man should feel no shame in being excellent, in being productive.

2. I disagree with Rand on Israel, I think she misses entirely the ethical perspective that the issue must be examined from. It's kind of surprising that she would get this wrong...

3. That's simply not an argument against her philosophy, sorry.

4. I'm not a big enough Rand geek, but I think she would say that it is impossible to be an altruist. You cannot love everyone indiscriminately, for then you really love no one, it's an empty love.

[low preference guy]

4. I'm not a big enough Rand geek, but I think she would say that it is impossible to be an altruist. You cannot love everyone indiscriminately, for then you really love no one, it's an empty love.

Actually, she thinks that altruism is possible and that it is evil.


What is the moral code of altruism? The basic principle of altruism is that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty, virtue and value.

Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible.

Link (http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/altruism.html)

[Sola_Fide]

Source? I think this is a pretty clear denunciation of racism:



Read the rest. (http://freedomkeys.com/ar-racism.htm)

EDIT: Another relevant part:



Well, racist may not be the best description, but she did hold that people who were more progressed were worth more than others.

I'm just saying that her philosophy did not provide her with a rational grounds for the worth of all people.

[Humanae Libertas]

Ayn 'Social Security' Rand on libertarians':


Do you think Libertarians communicate the ideas of freedom and capitalism effectively? [Q&A following LP’s “Objective Communication,” Lecture 1, 1980]

AR: I don’t think plagiarists are effective. I’ve read nothing by a Libertarian (when I read them, in the early years) that wasn’t my ideas badly mishandled—i.e., had the teeth pulled out of them—with no credit given. I didn’t know whether I should be glad that no credit was given, or disgusted. I felt both. They are perhaps the worst political group today, because they can do the most harm to capitalism, by making it disreputable.

Another:


Why don’t you approve of the Libertarians, thousands of whom are loyal readers of your works? [FHF: “The Age of Mediocrity,” 1981]

AR: Because Libertarians are a monstrous, disgusting bunch of people: they plagiarize my ideas when that fits their purpose, and they denounce me in a more vicious manner than any communist publication, when that fits their purpose. They are lower than any pragmatists, and what they hold against Objectivism is morality. They’d like to have an amoral political program.

[doodle]

I don't think saying some cultures are more primitive than others is racist. Even Thomas Sowell says that, so I suppose you also believe Thomas Sowell is a racist.

Also, she didn't believe in God and didn't mention the Jews as being a superior culture. So the part in bold below is completely false.

She does not believe in God? Nevermind then, I was mistaken.

So her views are based on graduation of cultures as opposed to races. By the way, did she ever compare white and black cultures besides comparing arab and jewish cultures? If so, I'd be curious what her verdict was.

[low preference guy]

So her views are based on graduation of cultures as opposed to races. By the way, did she ever compare white and black cultures besides comparing arab and jewish cultures? If so, I'd be curious what her verdict was.

If you're curious about her views on race, she wrote an essay (http://freedomkeys.com/ar-racism.htm)on the topic.

[doodle]

If you're curious about her views on race, she wrote an essay (http://freedomkeys.com/ar-racism.htm)on the topic.

She wrote and she spoke too, her stereo typing of a whole people after using a one sides interpretation if not God motivated has to be race motivated:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldyVDbpxpmg

Germans of Nazi Germany were more technologically advanced than Israel that occupied arab land, she seems very ignorant if not racially challanged.
She doesn't seem to get that no one likes to be kicked out of their land and homes even if the intrudrers/occupiers are more "technologically advanced".

[FrankRep]

She wrote and she spoke too, her stereo typing of a whole people after using a one sides interpretation if not God motivated has to be race motivated:

Doodle, actually she called the Arabs racist against the non-Arab Jewish people in Israel. Don't make Ayn Rand out to be the Racist.

[doodle]

Doodle, actually she called the Arabs racist against the non-Arab Jewish people in Israel. Don't make Ayn Rand out to be the Racist.

I know, that is why I was questioning her awareness/intelligence. Because Israeli society and very concept of the state revolves around concept of racial superamcy:

LINK (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?284099-Chicago-s-sister-city-in-Israel-has-hotline-to-inform-on-Jewish-women-who-date-Arab-men)

Do you think she would support/oppose community outreach interaction between arabs and jewish settler families that violated prophecies? Adavanced Technology seems to support interaction between arabs and jews and procreating life.

[dbill27]

Ayn Rand is a genius. If American high school students read Atlas Shrugged or The fountainhead the country would be a much better place. I owe her a debt of gratitude, reading the fountainhead changed my life. I can think of no one person more responsible more influential to the movement of freedom than her, more so even than Ron Paul. Millions upon millions of people have read her books and they are still in print.