Opinions on the 17th Amendment?

[Zarxrax]

The 17th is one of those amendments that you never really hear people discuss. In fact, I don't think I've ever heard a single debate over it's merits. While reading through the constitution today though, I got to thinking about it.

The 17th amendment is the one that gave the people the power to elect senators. Prior to this amendment, senators were chosen by the states.

On the face of it, this seems kinda like a bad idea to me, and this is probably one of the reasons that our federal government has grown so big. The senate was designed as part of the seperation of powers, to give the states a voice. By taking away their voice, it must have been a huge blow to the notion of states rights.

And besides, what the hell is the point of even having senators if the people are going to vote for them? I mean we already vote for the house, so what difference would it make if they had just decided to drop the senate altogether?

Thoughts?

*oops* think I posted this in the wrong forum

[bbachtung]

You are right about the 17th Amendment being a terrible thing. It is one of the contributing factors to the decline of state power and federalism. It essentially turned the Senate into an elite version of the House of Representatives, rather than the guardians of the rights and powers of the states. The damage, however, had already been done for the most part because many states had passed laws providing for the direct election of senators or binding the legislature to choose who the people voted for in preference elections.

The states did themselves in by ratifying this amendment . . .

[Bradley in DC]

Repeal it. The original purpose of the senate was to represent the several states.

[Kregener]

Repeal it.

[Matt Collins]

Yes, it should be repealed and the Republic should be setup as it originally was.

[Bradley in DC]

Yes, it should be repealed and the Republic should be setup as it originally was.

I'd support some changes from the original (slavery, women voting, clarifying presidential succession, direct election of VP, etc.).

[tonyr1988]

Yeah, get rid of it completely. We don't directly elect our representative to the UN (the organization to represent our country), we shouldn't directly elect our representative to the Senate (the organization to represent our state).

(not the best analogy, but oh well)

[beerista]

People get caught up with the idea of the separation of powers or checks and balances as meaning only the Congress, Supreme Court, and President. It doesn't take much consideration to realize that this is incomplete. The aforementioned are all branches of the same level of government. Generally speaking, what increases the power of one increases the power of the others.
But this was not the only system of checks and balances built into the system. The founders counted upon each level of government to be jealous of its own power and thus to act as a check upon the level above it. Hence, the states would act as a check against federal power grabs. The people were meant to act as a check against all levels of government. The ninth and tenth amendments make this clear.
Ultimately, deToqueville was right: "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." And this is more easily done by centralizing power.
So, yes, repeal it.

[johngr]

I hope the throw it into the same dustbin as they do the 14th (which hopefully Dr. Paul will lead the fight to repeal rather than just patching up).

[Chester Copperpot]

Ive wondered about this for awhile.. and from what ive seen they did the 17th ammendment because the state legislatures were lazy,... Laziness is a natural human response. Now that the people are waking up and becoming vigilant, the elected officials will become less lazy as well.

The Ammendment should be repealed.

[Corydoras]

Here's a nice article from lewrockwell.com:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo93.html

[Zarxrax]

Wow, great article. It gave lots of insight into some things I hadn't thought about.

[fsk]

Some people say that the 17th amendment is worse than the 16th amendment, neither of which were properly ratified. The 17th amendment effectively repealed states' rights.

[freelance]

There is one thing that I don't understand. If we repeal the 17th amendment, don't we simply have a volunteer Senate (except for their salary), with the big money flowing directly to the state legislatures?

The upside is that people will become more involved locally, and pay more attention to their state legislators, but it doesn't stop monied interests from buying our politicians. I have never understood how the 17th amendment guarantees another level of scrutiny if the money flow continues.

Can someone help me out here?

[Corydoras]

The more representatives of the people, the harder it is for an organization to wield influence with just a few well-placed donations.

[freelance]

Thanks Corydoras.

[angelatc]

There is one thing that I don't understand. If we repeal the 17th amendment, don't we simply have a volunteer Senate (except for their salary), with the big money flowing directly to the state legislatures?

The upside is that people will become more involved locally, and pay more attention to their state legislators, but it doesn't stop monied interests from buying our politicians. I have never understood how the 17th amendment guarantees another level of scrutiny if the money flow continues.

Can someone help me out here?

One thing the 17th would do is pretty much guarantee a change every time the Governor changed. Also, it would make the Senator answer to the Governor.

[Thomas Paine]

I regularly visit a legal website called Volokh, which is named after a libertarian minded law professor (and former U.S. Supreme Court clerk, I believe). On this site, various legal professionals and academics discuss the leading constitutional cases and issues of the day. I seem to recall they had a very good discussion concerning the merits of repealing the 17th amendment if anyone wants to search their archives.