The manipulative pro-war argument in Libya (Glenn Greenwald)

[cswake]

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/22/libya/index.html


Wasn't all of that at least as true of Saddam Hussein? Wasn't that exactly the "humanitarian" case made to justify that invasion? And wasn't that exactly the basis for the accusation against Iraq war opponents that they were indifferent to Saddam's tyranny -- i.e., if you oppose the war to remove Saddam, it means you are ensuring that he and his sons will stay in power, which in turn means you are indifferent to his rape rooms and mass graves and are willing to stand by while the Iraqi people suffer under his despotism? How can the "indifference-to-suffering" accusation be fair when made against opponents of the Libya war but not when made against Iraq war opponents?

[TheState]

Greenwald is fantastic, he's been on a roll as of late. He is easily one of my favorite journalists.

[Vessol]

Thanks for linking this.

It's fucking insane. From the start I've been against this crap, yet my liberal anti-war friends are all suddenly "Well, this is a good war! Ghadaffi is a tyrant and we have to save his people!"

[cswake]

I'm shocked too. I could see giving Obama the benefit of the doubt had he winded down operations and closed bases in Iraq, ended the war in Afghanistan, not started any new attacks in Pakistan or Yemen, ended extraordinary rendition, vetoed a renewal of the PATRIOT Act, and countless other issues war/civil liberties issues; however, he has not done any of that and in fact expanded on Bush's Constitutional violations.

The fact that I see the hard left systematically repeating in-person and on multiple forums "support the President" (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=633652&mesg_id=633652), posting "war porn" (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=635077&mesg_id=635077), and questioning the character of Kucinich (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=635817&mesg_id=635817) just boggles my mind. Meanwhile, Rachel Maddow cheers the efforts (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x635118)...

The best part is they allied with all the neocons. :confused:

[dean.engelhardt]

Humanitary bombing, F ya!

[HOLLYWOOD]

We know it's all BS by the elitists, aristocrats, terrorists, globalists, and zionists and their collaborating/conspiring/racketeering oeprations. George Carlin did a piece which is fantastic on this very issue.

"A worldwide evil organization with aspirations of world domination" now where did I hear that before?

simplicity:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/Today,%20a%20British%20Government%20minister%20ref used%20to%20rule%20out%20the%20deployment%20of%20g round%20troops%20in%20Libya.%20%20Armed%20Forces%2 0Minister%20Nick%20Harvey%20said%20there%20was%20a %20clear%20distinction%20between%20sending%20in%20 a%20full-scale%20occupation%20force%20-%20which%20is%20banned%20under%20the%20terms%20of% 20the%20United%20Nations%20mandate%20-%20and%20a%20more%20limited%20intervention.%20%20R ead%20more:%20http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368633/Libya-U-S-Air-Force-gun-crew-welcomed-Libyans-crash-night-coalition-air-raids.html#ixzz1HMBjYMIohttp://militantlibertarian.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Islamophobia-USandOil.jpg

U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed Air Force jet


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368633/Libya-U-S-Air-Force-gun-crew-welcomed-Libyans-crash-night-coalition-air-raids.html#ixzz1HMGdmMFU


Six Libyan villagers are recovering in hospital after being shot by American soldiers coming in to rescue the U.S. pilots whose plane crash-landed in a field.
The helicopter strafed the ground as it landed in a field outside Benghazi beside the downed U.S. Air Force F-15E Eagle which ran into trouble during bombing raid last night.
And a handful of locals who had come to greet the pilots were hit - among them a young boy who may have to have a leg amputated because of injuries caused by a bullet wound.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368633/Libya-U-S-Air-Force-gun-crew-welcomed-Libyans-crash-night-coalition-air-raids.html#ixzz1HMGvEgQg

[StilesBC]

Six Libyan villagers are recovering in hospital after being shot by American soldiers coming in to rescue the U.S. pilots whose plane crash-landed in a field.
The helicopter strafed the ground as it landed in a field outside Benghazi beside the downed U.S. Air Force F-15E Eagle which ran into trouble during bombing raid last night.
And a handful of locals who had come to greet the pilots were hit - among them a young boy who may have to have a leg amputated because of injuries caused by a bullet wound.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1HMGvEgQg

This just proves how foreign intervention kills the opportunity for democracy to flourish. It is so bloody easy for Ghadaffi to now use things like this and turn it around on his people as how indiscriminate and hypocritical the west is in their desire for peace/democracy/freedom. How many thousands of people across Libya saw this story and said, "to hell with the uprising. If it means getting shot by those American imperialists, I'd rather take my chances with the devil I know."

If the Libyan people want freedom, they will have to fight for it themselves and earn it at a heavy cost. Those who died are remembered as heroes and their heirs, remembering the sacrifice, will be vigilant in protecting what their fathers and grandfathers died for. Without this kind of self-determination, there is nothing stopping yet another dictator type from bribing his way to office. Nothing will have been earned by the Libyan people themselves. The value of the victory will be diluted.

We're not helping them.

[Grubb556]

This just proves how foreign intervention kills the opportunity for democracy to flourish. It is so bloody easy for Ghadaffi to now use things like this and turn it around on his people as how indiscriminate and hypocritical the west is in their desire for peace/democracy/freedom. How many thousands of people across Libya saw this story and said, "to hell with the uprising. If it means getting shot by those American imperialists, I'd rather take my chances with the devil I know."

If the Libyan people want freedom, they will have to fight for it themselves and earn it at a heavy cost. Those who died are remembered as heroes and their heirs, remembering the sacrifice, will be vigilant in protecting what their fathers and grandfathers died for. Without this kind of self-determination, there is nothing stopping yet another dictator type from bribing his way to office. Nothing will have been earned by the Libyan people themselves. The value of the victory will be diluted.

We're not helping them.

I like your "war is welfare" analogy.

[low preference guy]

Humanitary bombing, F ya!

humanitarian amputation!

[jmdrake]

Awesome article! I love how Glenn Greenwald points out the logical conclusion of the illogical reasoning of the neocons/neolibs. If we're going to attack Lybia on "humanitarian" grounds then why not Ivory Coast - Zimbabwe - Yemen - and every other 3rd world hell hole ruled by a despot? Part of being non-interventionist is realizing that often times doing something stupid is less humanitarian than doing nothing at all.

[cswake]

LOL @ MSNBC! Cenk Uygur is on-board with war in Libya... now the left just needs Matthews, Schultz, and O'Donnell so that the war is justified. My guess is Ratigan will be the sole voice of sanity.

[NewRightLibertarian]

LOL @ MSNBC! Cenk Uygur is on-board with war in Libya... now the left just needs Matthews, Schultz, and O'Donnell so that the war is justified. My guess is Ratigan will be the sole voice of sanity.

GE is subsidized by the Federal Reserve now. They are a propaganda arm of the state. I wouldn't have expected anything less from the piece of shit, order-taking lackeys on that channel.

[Feeding the Abscess]

Schultz was supportive last night. Matthews, to his credit, has typically been more skeptical of foreign intervention than his contemporaries.

[QueenB4Liberty]

This just proves how foreign intervention kills the opportunity for democracy to flourish. It is so bloody easy for Ghadaffi to now use things like this and turn it around on his people as how indiscriminate and hypocritical the west is in their desire for peace/democracy/freedom. How many thousands of people across Libya saw this story and said, "to hell with the uprising. If it means getting shot by those American imperialists, I'd rather take my chances with the devil I know."

If the Libyan people want freedom, they will have to fight for it themselves and earn it at a heavy cost. Those who died are remembered as heroes and their heirs, remembering the sacrifice, will be vigilant in protecting what their fathers and grandfathers died for. Without this kind of self-determination, there is nothing stopping yet another dictator type from bribing his way to office. Nothing will have been earned by the Libyan people themselves. The value of the victory will be diluted.

We're not helping them.

Yeah I agree with you.