Why is the Fed the most important issue for you?

[cdc482]

However you measure it, inflation is not terrible on a year to year basis. Wouldn't cutting the half of the budget dealing with foreign policy save trillions of dollars, millions of lives, and invaluable ways of life?
I'm just wondering why so many Ron Paul supporters are so passionate about the fed, which I agree is wrong by all standards, but not as passionate or more passionate about foreign policy.

Please discuss.

[Chester Copperpot]

Because the Fed is the prime mover of evil in America.

[cdc482]

details...

[Chester Copperpot]

details...

They are the prime mover of all the crap. Whether its domestic policy or foreign policy... Those foreign policy items you take issue with couldnt be afforded without the money the federal reserve creates, neither could all the welfare state items, pork projects, not to mention things like huge debts and deficits and inflation.

Why are you still trolling around here?

Arent you guys ever going to get it?

You cant dissuade any Ron Paul people because we know the real deal. We're not some mindless crew of followers..

The fed is nothing but a den of vipers and by the grace of almighty God will be routed out!

It you want more details I suggest you read Andrew Jacksons 1832 letter to congress explaining his veto of the 2nd Bank of the US.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way man.

[puppetmaster]

for me it ties in with the IRS....they are killing freedom everyday

[QueenB4Liberty]

Without the fed none of the out of control spending or endless wars could be possible. The fed is the driver of destruction.

[Sola_Fide]

However you measure it, inflation is not terrible on a year to year basis. Wouldn't cutting the half of the budget dealing with foreign policy save trillions of dollars, millions of lives, and invaluable ways of life?
I'm just wondering why so many Ron Paul supporters are so passionate about the fed, which I agree is wrong by all standards, but not as passionate or more passionate about foreign policy.

Please discuss.

The FED is the entity that provides the basis for overspending (foreign and domestic) beyond what we take in in revenue.

If the FED were not able to print money to buy up debt, then legislators would have to pay for the cost of war through tax revenue...something the people would not like.

You have to end the FED to end the wars.

[low preference guy]

However you measure it, inflation is not terrible on a year to year basis. Wouldn't cutting the half of the budget dealing with foreign policy save trillions of dollars, millions of lives, and invaluable ways of life?
I'm just wondering why so many Ron Paul supporters are so passionate about the fed, which I agree is wrong by all standards, but not as passionate or more passionate about foreign policy.

Please discuss.

How was WWI financed?

[cdc482]

Mike M,

Relax. I have been a Ron Paul supporter before he anyone knew he was, before he ran for President in 2008. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone. Have you ever considered the possibility that I am asking a question only to hear an answer?

Anyway, your reply and others were very helpful. Thanks.

[Chester Copperpot]

Mike M,

Relax. I have been a Ron Paul supporter before he anyone knew he was, before he ran for President in 2008. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone. Have you ever considered the possibility that I am asking a question only to hear an answer?

Anyway, your reply and others were very helpful. Thanks.

Im sorry if I sound obtuse, but I find it incompatible for you to be a "Ron Paul supporter" for such a long time and also to not take issue with the federal reserve. Im sure its possible but Over the years Ive only seen 2 or 3 people who claimed to be a ron paul supporter but also loved the federal reserve and/or IRS, and with the exception of Zippy I think theyve just been people to come here to waste our time...Maybe zippy too. lol

[Bman]

What makes you think people here have less of a problem with foreign policy?

[hazek]

Without free money every pother temporary freedom or right will eventually be lost.

Remember: Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws. - Mayer Amschel Rothschild?


People who daily argue which issue they care about most and should have priority, should fking finally realize this and band together and work together to first and foremost get rid of the FED because any other effort that they put forward while the FED still exists is ultimately pointless and irrelevant.

[erowe1]

However you measure it, inflation is not terrible on a year to year basis.

I don't call it my most important issue.

But I don't think this claim mitigates against its importance. The problem is, the day will come when we have hyperinflation. When it happens, it will spiral out of control rapidly, and you can't wait until it has already happened before you fix the underlying problem that will have caused it.

[TomtheTinker]

The less power the fed has to monetize debt the more difficult it would be for politicians to create debt in the first place. If they are unable to spend what they don't have they will be unable to participate in the actions/programs we all disagree with(war/welfare/police state).

In a nut shell the fed enables the government to do all the things we disagree with.

[Tal]

Because I have a strong suspicion that the Fed and the government control over the currency is the lynchpin holding up the warfare/welfare state, pull it out and I suspect most of the other parts of the fabric of statism will unravel.

If the Fed didnt exist and we had a free market in currency production then financing the military would be alot harder since people would feel the financial pain of the military's expenditures immediatly after war had been engaged in and a free market system would also allow people to opt out of government pension systems much easier since every penny they saved would retain its purchasing power until they needed it at retirement and that would show people that they dont need the welfare state.

[AuH20]

However you measure it, inflation is not terrible on a year to year basis. Wouldn't cutting the half of the budget dealing with foreign policy save trillions of dollars, millions of lives, and invaluable ways of life?
I'm just wondering why so many Ron Paul supporters are so passionate about the fed, which I agree is wrong by all standards, but not as passionate or more passionate about foreign policy.

Please discuss.

No man should have the power to the manipulate the currency of a nation in such an outrageous manner. It's rather simple. Bad things ensue as we have seen. The only way we can cut the puppet strings to the various parasitic special interests that have plagued us for countless decades is to take down the Fed. Kill the Fed and you kill the parasites. It's really a gigantic cycle of patronage, with the Fed acting as the king in a modern-day feudal system.

[amy31416]

What makes you think people here have less of a problem with foreign policy?

Bingo!

I have just as much of a problem with our foreign policy as I do with economic manipulation, and they are related, so I couldn't pick which one is more important overall. However, I have more of a problem with our Congress than with the Fed. The congress is shirking their responsibilities by handing the power over to the Fed--and of course the Fed is going to act unethically--they have control over all of our wealth with virtually no oversight. I mean, come on.

[hazek]

Bingo!

I have just as much of a problem with our foreign policy as I do with economic manipulation, and they are related, so I couldn't pick which one is more important overall. However, I have more of a problem with our Congress than with the Fed. The congress is shirking their responsibilities by handing the power over to the Fed--and of course the Fed is going to act unethically--they have control over all of our wealth with virtually no oversight. I mean, come on.

Sorry but posts like this really piss me off because it just shows the lack of your understanding how essential monetary policy is. Without the FED there would be no foreign policy problems!

Why can't you get this?!

[amy31416]

Sorry but posts like this really piss me off because it just shows the lack of your understanding how essential monetary policy is. Without the FED there would be no foreign policy problems!

Why can't you get this?!

Well, for one, telling me that I piss you off by stating my opinion doesn't help.

Did we, or did we not engage in warfare/welfare and currency manipulation PRIOR to the Federal Reserve? (Yes, not on as grand of a scale, but did we?)

And you are stating, as truth, something that you can never, ever prove...but hey, kudos for posting it in red--that makes it more truey.

P.S. I can't "get it" because I've never had the benefit of an obnoxious fellow like yourself telling me how dense I am.

[hazek]

Of course by no FED I meant without a government monopoly on the monetary system.

And naturally instead of thinking about the substance your going to focus on the origin the form of my post. Fking human nature.

[freshjiva]

"
If the American People ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied. The issuing power of money should be taken from the bankers and restored to Congress and the people to whom it belongs. I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies.

We are completely saddled and bridled, and the bank is so firmly mounted on us that we must go where they ill guide.

The dominion which the banking institutions have obtained over the minds of our citizens...must be broken, or it will break us."

-- Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to James Monroe, January 1, 1815.

[amy31416]

Of course by no FED I meant without a government monopoly on the monetary system.

And naturally instead of thinking about the substance your going to focus on the origin the form of my post. Fking human nature.

So it's my fault that you wrote a stupid post? Perhaps you should take your own advice and focus on the substance of my post, sweetheart. Perhaps it might also help if you stopped and thought for a moment before lashing out in on a forum, where I just showed you how you were wrong, not vice-versa.

Good luck.

[hazek]

I wasn't wrong I just didn't spelling it out for you because I thought by now someone with nearly 14k posts on this forum would have the right idea about what sort of philosophy for a monetary system we would want to replace the FED if we ever managed to get rid of it.

It's ok, don't blame yourself, I sure don't. I blame the fking human nature and how our egos don't ever allow us to listen to other people but rather remain stubborn in our values and beliefs.

[hazek]

"
If the American People ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied. The issuing power of money should be taken from the bankers and restored to Congress and the people to whom it belongs. I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies.

We are completely saddled and bridled, and the bank is so firmly mounted on us that we must go where they ill guide.

The dominion which the banking institutions have obtained over the minds of our citizens...must be broken, or it will break us."

-- Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to James Monroe, January 1, 1815.

EXACTLY.

And people still want to give other issues priority when you have words of a man from 200 fking years ago telling you what your priority should be if you ever want to live free. Morons.

[amy31416]

I wasn't wrong I just didn't spelling it out for you because I thought by now someone with nearly 14k posts on this forum would have the right idea about what sort of philosophy for a monetary system we would want to replace the FED if we ever managed to get rid of it.

It's ok, don't blame yourself, I sure don't. I blame the fking human nature and how our egos don't ever allow us to listen to other people but rather remain stubborn in our values and beliefs.

Uh huh. You wrote something dumb and you're still trying to blame it on me. Why don't you go sit in the corner and calm down for a bit, eh chief?

[hazek]

LOL Didn't I write that I don't blame you? I think I did... Hmm just to be sure I'll check...

YEP I DID!

[amy31416]

LOL Didn't I write that I don't blame you? I think I did... Hmm just to be sure I'll check...

YEP I DID!

You have issues with understanding what you write--reading comprehension is a skill taught in grade school. You saying that "you don't blame me" then going on to blame me, well...work on it.

That said, enough thread hijacking. It's likely that you're being pissy because there's something else wrong with your life that has nothing to do with me. Good luck with that, angrypants.

[nathanmn]

Sorry but posts like this really piss me off because it just shows the lack of your understanding how essential monetary policy is. Without the FED there would be no foreign policy problems!

Why can't you get this?!

So a government couldn't start wars with a balanced budget? Without the fed governments wouldn't be able to borrow money? It sure seems companies and state/local governments can borrow money without controlling the money supply. Go figure... maybe the fed's importance is overblown in all of this.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Why do you assume this is my most important issue?

[AdamT]

Basically because it's the enabler of virtually everything that's gone wrong in America.

[newbitech]

However you measure it, inflation is not terrible on a year to year basis. Wouldn't cutting the half of the budget dealing with foreign policy save trillions of dollars, millions of lives, and invaluable ways of life?
I'm just wondering why so many Ron Paul supporters are so passionate about the fed, which I agree is wrong by all standards, but not as passionate or more passionate about foreign policy.

Please discuss.

the two are intimately related. Our foreign policy cannot survive without the supporting monetary policy. There are two ways our foreign policy will change.

1.) By coming to our senses about monetary policy eg. the Fed (we can't afford our foreign policy).
2.) By continuing the status quo in which case, our failed monetary policy will force withdrawal of our empire.

Simply put, by focusing on monetary policy, we are essentially killing two policy birds with one stone. It's as simple as understanding that our foreign policy is propped up by our monetary policy. I hope this helps you understand why monetary policy seems to be more prominent. It's not really, its just the perception because of the relationship between the two.

[nathanmn]

Im sorry if I sound obtuse, but I find it incompatible for you to be a "Ron Paul supporter" for such a long time and also to not take issue with the federal reserve. Im sure its possible but Over the years Ive only seen 2 or 3 people who claimed to be a ron paul supporter but also loved the federal reserve and/or IRS, and with the exception of Zippy I think theyve just been people to come here to waste our time...Maybe zippy too. lol

I think Ron Paul and a lot of his supporters are overly pre-occupied with the fed. I agree with a lot of the criticisms of the FED...as an example, easy money was definitely one of the main drivers of the housing bubble IMO. However, I don't think the fed should be abolished and I don't think it is the origin of all of our problems. I cringed during the debates when RP took every question and turned it to the fed and monetary policy. He wasn't winning points on that. He sure won points on this one, though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afwbHUSweL0

I also think that it is ridiculous that you would think we couldn't support Ron Paul because we have a partial disagreement or two with him. Does everyone have to mindlessly adopt every belief of a politician to support him? Is Ron Paul not great on almost every stance, so if a person doesn't like a little thing or two about him, they still have a huge list of things to love?

I personally think our debt is the problem that is going to crush us. That comes mostly from our foreign policy and entitlement spending. Our debt obligations would most likely still be there no matter what we did with the fed or monetary policy. So spending HAS to be dealt with. How can you abolish the fed when you have 14 trillion dollars in debt? So you have to deal with spending, foreign policy, and entitlement reform. That requires a rethinking of the role of government, and also a lot of cutting, trimming, and the maximization of efficiency. I don't care how many times someone repeats it, the FED is just part of the puzzle of how bad government screws things up, and we have a lot of other problems that need fixing.

[romacox]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji_G0MqAqq8

[Sola_Fide]

I think Ron Paul and a lot of his supporters are overly pre-occupied with the fed. I agree with a lot of the criticisms of the FED...as an example, easy money was definitely one of the main drivers of the housing bubble IMO.However, I don't think the fed should be abolished and I don't think it is the origin of all of our problems. I cringed during the debates when RP took every question and turned it to the fed and monetary policy. He wasn't winning points on that. He sure won points on this one, though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afwbHUSweL0

I also think that it is ridiculous that you would think we couldn't support Ron Paul because we have a partial disagreement or two with him. Does everyone have to mindlessly adopt every belief of a politician to support him? Is Ron Paul not great on almost every stance, so if a person doesn't like a little thing or two about him, they still have a huge list of things to love?

I personally think our debt is the problem that is going to crush us. That comes mostly from our foreign policy and entitlement spending. Our debt obligations would most likely still be there no matter what we did with the fed or monetary policy. So spending HAS to be dealt with. How can you abolish the fed when you have 14 trillion dollars in debt? So you have to deal with spending, foreign policy, and entitlement reform. That requires a rethinking of the role of government, and also a lot of cutting, trimming, and the maximization of efficiency. I don't care how many times someone repeats it, the FED is just part of the puzzle of how bad government screws things up, and we have a lot of other problems that need fixing.

The FED enables government to fund wars and entitlements through inflation.

You have to have sound money if want to control spending. The FED creates the moral hazard to spend and spend because it is always there to buy up debt.

[Travlyr]

The Federal Reserve debases currency. Debasement of currency is the source of wealth transfer from the producers to the elite rulers who use their wealth to go around the world destroying infrastructure, people, and societies with million dollar bombs in the name of democracy and peace. Debasement of currency was a capital crime in 1792 because it is the funding for evil. Central banking is the cancer. If you do not yet know this in your heart and mind, then read:

"The Mystery of Banking" by Murray N. Rothbard
"End the Fed" by Ron Paul
"Secrets of the Federal Reserve" by Eustace Mullins
"Gold, Peace and Prosperity" by Ron Paul
"A Cross of Gold" by Edwin Vieira

[romacox]

Thomas Jefferson: "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
Thomas Jefferson, (Attributed)
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)

[Lucille]

If you want to end the Welfare-Warfare State, end the debt, and end the bailouts, then you have to end the Fed.

Besides, it's theft.

"The crucial test of private property is the attitude of government toward money. Devaluation of currency is outright expropriation."
--Isabel Paterson

Not to mention unconstitutional.

"[T]he Federal government was given no power to issue paper currency. Though it has done so, the authority is not in the Constitution"
--Isabel Paterson (http://books.google.com/books?id=Bgw2nKffTXMC&pg=PA132&dq=the+god+of+the+machine+the+Federal+government+w as+given+no+power+to+issue+paper+currency.+Though+ it+has+done+so,+the+authority+is+not+in+the+Consti tution%E2%80%A6&hl=en&ei=IfeETempPIXEsAO61-SGAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false)

Why Real Money Is Indispensable (http://www.fame.org/HTM/Why%20Real%20Money%20Is%20Indispensable.htm)

[nathanmn]

The FED enables government to fund wars and entitlements through inflation.

You have to have sound money if want low spending.

How do you move to sound money if you have 14 trillion in debt? You need low spending before you can get sound money.

[Sola_Fide]

How do you move to sound money if you have 14 trillion in debt? You need low spending before you can get sound money.

You have to end the FED to remove the moral hazard that makes politicians spend.

As long as the FED is always there to buy up debt, there will always be overspending.

[Stary Hickory]

How do you move to sound money if you have 14 trillion in debt? You need low spending before you can get sound money.

You just dont understand the economics behind money, if you did you wouldn't post stuff like this. Sound money is not optional...you either have it or you suffer. You are arguing that is necessary to keep deceiving people, to keep the market manipulated and distorted. The longer we inflate the more distorted and damaged our real economy is, you cannot inflate forever, because inflation and hyperinflation will always be there, and there will be a complete and total collapse of our monetary system.

A monetary unit is a tool for accounting. It's just as ridiculous to argue for manipulating and changing the length of a meter when building a house. You will end up with one screwed up looking house if you can even manage to finish anything at all. Altering the value of a dollar, which is a unit of economic measurement is equally devastating to our economy. It means we have to tear down much of what was built and start over.

Resulting in wasted time and energy and it causes periods of unemployment as people need to adjust to the reality that the manipulated system before was not balanced against the true needs of the people.

Economic activity is human action. Everything you do can be considered economic activity. When you breathe, wipe your ass, or watch a movie at home, the FEDs influence reaches everywhere.

[romacox]

When a world bank (Federal Reserve) is permitted to print worthless pieces of paper in exchange for things of value (your labor), is that not the biggest Ponzi scheme ever?

[mczerone]

Simple: as the legally enforced means of exchange, all that we transact involves FRNs. You can get around it by using costly bartering systems, but 99% of all exchanges in the economy are for cash. So no matter how bad the Dept. of Education is, or the SEC, or the CFTC, or the CIA, etc., etc., they don't affect EVERY TRADE people make.

They can both distort all prices and can take a counterfieting "cut" by issuing Billions in new bonds, without the users of the currency being able to directly see any harm. But one day down the road the people will notice that their money has lost 98% of its value since the Fed took over, and that the wider economy has developed into a structure that is unsustainable without constant new injections of fiat cash.

Ending the Federal Reserve and the monopoly on money should be around 50% of people's overall political concerns, because that's the proportion of their daily decisions in which the nefarious money printers are intertwined.

[Travlyr]

When a world bank (Federal Reserve) is permitted to print worthless pieces of paper in exchange for things of value (your labor), is that not the biggest Ponzi scheme ever?

It is.

My grandchildren will know that I did not sit back and do nothing after I learned the truth.

End the FED!

[nathanmn]

You just dont understand the economics behind money, if you did you wouldn't post stuff like this.

You say I don't understand, yet you completely ignore my question. Maybe you don't understand, and that is why you can't address my single and simple question?