Actress Michelle Rodriguez (Avatar, Fast & Furious, Machete) At Los Angeles ZDay Event

[Jim Casey]

She says she loved the first 2 Zeitgeist films, and finds the 3rd awesome and inspiring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4C6Xqd8qRc

[TIMB0B]

Meh.

The core idea advocated by TZM is an anti-capitalist system, replacing current civilization with a money-free and cybernated "resource-based economy". They promote replacing human labour with automation, government will be through collective participation of the public, aided by advanced cybernation. According to the movement, there will be no decision-making process, decisions are arrived at by using the scientific method, based on the carrying capacity of the Earth, rather than human opinions. The replacement of human decision making by artificial intelligence is termed 'Social Cybernation'. Private property will not be abolished, but it will be become obsolete as culture grows, being replaced by "a system of universal access".

[Jim Casey]

It is interesting to note that an individual with a very high monetary income as well as celebrity social status would be inspired by the idea of a society without money.

[silverhandorder]

LOL no its not interesting at all there are plenty of rich communists.

[TIMB0B]

It is interesting to note that an individual with a very high monetary income as well as celebrity social status would be inspired by the idea of a society without money.

That's because she can't think for herself.

[Jim Casey]

LOL no its not interesting at all there are plenty of rich communists.
Ever wonder why folks with lots of money would want to abandon the use of money?

That's because she can't think for herself.
Nobody really "thinks for herself/himself". All of our ideas and opinions are based upon our values, and those values are shaped by the cultural environment. Your ideas are a reflection of your society.

The multiple influences on the minds of individuals generates perceptions based upon what is comprehended. Understanding grows even without consciousness of it. Cooperation amongst various volunteer organizations occurs with a common direction.

[silverhandorder]

Ever wonder why folks with little money would not want to participate in a centrally planned economy?

[TIMB0B]

Nobody really "thinks for herself/himself". All of our ideas and opinions are based upon our values, and those values are shaped by the cultural environment. Your ideas are a reflection of your society.
So, where did you come up with that?

[FrankRep]

Nobody really "thinks for herself/himself". All of our ideas and opinions are based upon our values, and those values are shaped by the cultural environment. Your ideas are a reflection of your society.


So, where did you come up with that?

His cultural environment? :D

[hazek]

THIS IS SO FUCKING FRUSTRATING UUUUUUGUGGGGGHGHHHH I COULD TAKE AN AXE TO A TREE AND HACK IT TO SHREDS OUT OF ANGER!!


So many people out there, intelligent people, who actually care and have a genuine desire to learn and they FKING fall for all these ridiculous "truths" and then they just magically stop and don't fking doubt anything anymore. I bet we have at least 60% of all people in the world capable of understanding the principles of freedom and a free market and yet their brains have been washed with FKING HOGHWASH and it's game over and all we get is maybe 5% that have the right idea.

WHY WHY WHY does the world have to be so UGH stupidly diverse in all the ridiculous beliefs and values parents teach their children, teachers teach their pupils, friends teach their friends, gurus teach theirs fans. FKING Why can't everyone just realize there's only one empirical truth and start living by it. Why?!





I'm really starting to think that I'm just a big fking idiot for seeing all of this and trying to change things instead of just abusing the 95% of clueless idiot zombies that wander in this world.

And I fking like Michelle Rodriguez very much :(

[TIMB0B]

THIS IS SO FUCKING FRUSTRATING UUUUUUGUGGGGGHGHHHH I COULD TAKE AN AXE TO A TREE AND HACK IT TO SHREDS OUT OF ANGER!!


So many people out there, intelligent people, who actually care and have a genuine desire to learn and they FKING fall for all these ridiculous "truths" and then they just magically stop and don't fking doubt anything anymore. I bet we have at least 60% of all people in the world capable of understanding the principles of freedom and a free market and yet their brains have been washed with FKING HOGHWASH and it's game over and all we get is maybe 5% that have the right idea.

WHY WHY WHY does the world have to be so UGH stupidly diverse in all the ridiculous beliefs and values parents teach their children, teachers teach their pupils, friends teach their friends, gurus teach theirs fans. FKING Why can't everyone just realize there's only one empirical truth and start living by it. Why?!





I'm really starting to think that I'm just a big fking idiot for seeing all of this and trying to change things instead of just abusing the 95% of clueless idiot zombies that wander in this world.

And I fking like Michelle Rodriguez very much :(
I couldn't have said it better. No, really. Because I don't think for myself.

[Feeding the Abscess]

Michelle Rodriguez always struck me as petulant and artificial.

Anywho. Nothing else to add.

[hazek]

Michelle Rodriguez always struck me as petulant and artificial.

I think you couldn't be more wrong:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG2ATOBuGS8

[Jim Casey]

Ever wonder why folks with little money would not want to participate in a centrally planned economy?
Indeed I do. When a centrally planned economy involves rationing, it reinforces the sense of scarcity. This is why TZM aims to create access abundance by applying the scientific method to social concern and resource management.

So, where did you come up with that?
Developments in behavior psychology. Nobody really has values that are essentially individually personal. Even folks who place a high value on self-assessment only do so because those values reflect their cultural environment.

His cultural environment? :D
I do have access to a cultural environment that understands behavioral psychology and values self-assessments. Otherwise I may rather have continued to be stuck within a cultural environment where I would've dismissed anything M Rod would have to say based on various forms of chauvinism that are dominant themes within other cultural environments that I have access to.

THIS IS SO FUCKING FRUSTRATING UUUUUUGUGGGGGHGHHHH I COULD TAKE AN AXE TO A TREE AND HACK IT TO SHREDS OUT OF ANGER!!
http://forums.adobe.com/servlet/JiveServlet/showImage/2-3260519-47060/obamam-lol-y-u-mad-tho.jpg

So many people out there, intelligent people, who actually care and have a genuine desire to learn and they FKING fall for all these ridiculous "truths" and then they just magically stop and don't fking doubt anything anymore. I bet we have at least 60% of all people in the world capable of understanding the principles of freedom and a free market and yet their brains have been washed with FKING HOGHWASH and it's game over and all we get is maybe 5% that have the right idea.
Folks are beginning to understand that the only freedoms they have are the laws of nature. Any society that offers more freedoms than others only does so because of the architecture of that society. Free market utopianism hinders the emergence of a societal architecture that can truly provide the kind of freedom that people really need, like the freedom to have their basic survival needs met without having to somehow acquire the purchasing power to pay the price tag on those needs.

WHY WHY WHY does the world have to be so UGH stupidly diverse in all the ridiculous beliefs and values parents teach their children, teachers teach their pupils, friends teach their friends, gurus teach theirs fans. FKING Why can't everyone just realize there's only one empirical truth and start living by it. Why?!
http://www.thoughttheater.com/StupidIsAsStupidDoes.jpg

I'm really starting to think that I'm just a big fking idiot for seeing all of this and trying to change things instead of just abusing the 95% of clueless idiot zombies that wander in this world.
My thinking is going more in the direction of cooperating with others instead of competing with others. Instead of making other folks my enemies, I'm deciding more to make social problems my enemies.

And I fking like Michelle Rodriguez very much :(
As I alluded to previously, various cultural environments that I've accessed for a long time have shaped certain values that would've dismissed M Rod. However, I have more recently been spending more time accessing cultural environments where self-assessing this kind of behavior is encouraged, thus I am more inclined nowadays to adhere to this quote:

In order to defeat evil, you can do so by loving your neighbor like you'd like to be loved yourself.
-President George Walker Bush, June 24, 2002

[silverhandorder]

I don't think you are using the same definition of scarcity as the rest of us do.

[Jim Casey]

I don't think you are using the same definition of scarcity as the rest of us do.
Free market utopians often consider human needs and wants to be unlimited. Needs are logistically finite based upon natural law and wants are based upon values shaped by the cultural environment. Folks who've never conceived of owning a 50 room mansion don't want one.

[hazek]

So many people out there, intelligent people, who actually care and have a genuine desire to learn and they FKING fall for all these ridiculous "truths" and then they just magically stop and don't fking doubt anything anymore. I bet we have at least 60% of all people in the world capable of understanding the principles of freedom and a free market and yet their brains have been washed with FKING HOGHWASH and it's game over and all we get is maybe 5% that have the right idea.

WHY WHY WHY does the world have to be so UGH stupidly diverse in all the ridiculous beliefs and values parents teach their children, teachers teach their pupils, friends teach their friends, gurus teach theirs fans. FKING Why can't everyone just realize there's only one empirical truth and start living by it. Why?!

Exhibit A:

Indeed I do. When a centrally planned economy involves rationing, it reinforces the sense of scarcity. This is why TZM aims to create access abundance by applying the scientific method to social concern and resource management.

Developments in behavior psychology. Nobody really has values that are essential individually personal. Even folks who place a high value on self-assessment only do so because those values reflect their cultural environment.

I do have access to a cultural environment that understands behavioral psychology and values self-assessments. Otherwise I may rather have continued to be stuck within a cultural environment where I would've dismissed anything M Rod would have to say based on various forms of chauvinism that are dominant themes within other cultural environment that I have access to.

http://forums.adobe.com/servlet/JiveServlet/showImage/2-3260519-47060/obamam-lol-y-u-mad-tho.jpg

Folks are beginning to understand that the only freedoms they have are the laws of nature. Any society that offers more freedoms than others only does so because of the architecture of that society. Free market utopianism hinders the emergence of a societal architecture that can truly provide the kind of freedom that people really need, like the freedom to have their basic survival needs met without having to somehow acquire the purchasing power to pay the price tag on those needs.

http://www.thoughttheater.com/StupidIsAsStupidDoes.jpg

My thinking is going more in the direction of cooperating with others instead of competing with others. Instead of making other folks my enemies, I'm deciding more to make social problems my enemies.

As I alluded to previously, various cultural environments that I've accessed for a long time have shaped certain values that would've dismissed M Rod. However, I have more recently been spending more time accessing cultural environments where self-assessing this kind of behavior is encouraged, thus I am more inclined nowadays to adhere to this quote:

In order to defeat evil, you can do so by loving your neighbor like you'd like to be loved yourself.
-President George Walker Bush, June 24, 2002

Just some little shit who thinks only he and his parents, friends, teachers, gurus the fk do I know who exactly, know the "real" truth.

Sooooooo frustrating.

[TIMB0B]

TZM aims to create access abundance by applying the scientific method to social concern and resource management.



The free market is the scientific method in capitalism. However, government intervention has corrupted it by subsidizing inefficiency in the name of "what's good for us" rather than letting the consumer individually decide what's best for them.

[hazek]

The free market is the scientific method in capitalism. However, government intervention has corrupted it by subsidizing inefficiency in the name of "what's good for us" rather than letting the consumer individually decide what's best for them.

Didn't you read my post? Why reply if he already knows the "truth"? You think he'll listen to you? LOL He got his "truth" and now his content with it and just wont question it unless he himself discovers some new significant "truth".

Soooo frustrating.

[Kotin]

THIS IS SO FUCKING FRUSTRATING UUUUUUGUGGGGGHGHHHH I COULD TAKE AN AXE TO A TREE AND HACK IT TO SHREDS OUT OF ANGER!!


So many people out there, intelligent people, who actually care and have a genuine desire to learn and they FKING fall for all these ridiculous "truths" and then they just magically stop and don't fking doubt anything anymore. I bet we have at least 60% of all people in the world capable of understanding the principles of freedom and a free market and yet their brains have been washed with FKING HOGHWASH and it's game over and all we get is maybe 5% that have the right idea.

WHY WHY WHY does the world have to be so UGH stupidly diverse in all the ridiculous beliefs and values parents teach their children, teachers teach their pupils, friends teach their friends, gurus teach theirs fans. FKING Why can't everyone just realize there's only one empirical truth and start living by it. Why?!





I'm really starting to think that I'm just a big fking idiot for seeing all of this and trying to change things instead of just abusing the 95% of clueless idiot zombies that wander in this world.

And I fking like Michelle Rodriguez very much :(

I know how you feel man....

[Jim Casey]

The free market is the scientific method in capitalism. However, government intervention has corrupted it by subsidizing inefficiency in the name of "what's good for us" rather than letting the consumer individually decide what's best for them.
The concept of money is not scientific. Money is a tradition rooted in the concept of trade. Trade is a tradition rooted the concept of property. Property is a tradition rooted in the concept of scarcity, and also presupposes noncooperation.

The massive automation of so many processes that once involved the exchange of money for labor is evidence that our society is already well under way in evolving beyond the use of money.

Didn't you read my post? Why reply if he already knows the "truth"? You think he'll listen to you? LOL He got his "truth" and now his content with it and just wont question it unless he himself discovers some new significant "truth".

Soooo frustrating.
What folks consider to be truth is always changing based upon ideas rooted in values developed within the context of cultural environment.

Exhibit A:

Just some little shit who thinks only he and his parents, friends, teachers, gurus the fk do I know who exactly, know the "real" truth.

Sooooooo frustrating.
A new consciousness is emerging. Instead of folks referring to other folks in excremental terms, folks are beginning to understand that humanity and the planet are one single organism, and an organism at war with itself won't survive.

I know how you feel man....
The anger and anxiety that is widespread within a culture dominated by free market utopianism can be cured by the immune system of the social world AKA The Zeitgeist Movement.

[hazek]

A new consciousness is emerging. Instead of folks referring to other folks in excremental terms, folks are beginning to understand that humanity and the planet are one single organism, and an organism at war with itself won't survive.

Kind of like the lions and gazelles are a single organism right? You know what, I'd like to see you personally try and test your "truth" in my house trying to take away my private property cause the only thing you'll leave with is with bullets stuck in your delusional zombie head.

[jtstellar]

I do have access to a cultural environment that understands behavioral psychology and values self-assessments. Otherwise I may rather have continued to be stuck within a cultural environment where I would've dismissed anything M Rod would have to say based on various forms of chauvinism that are dominant themes within other cultural environment that I have access to.

that explains a lot. english is like a whole another language when used by you.

[Jim Casey]

Kind of like the lions and gazelles are a single organism right? You know what, I'd like to see you personally try and test your "truth" in my house trying to take away my private property cause the only thing you'll leave with is with bullets stuck in your delusional zombie head.
Ever wondered why you would like to shoot folks in the head with bullets?

On a quantum level, everything is energy and lions and gazelles are made up of some energy and mostly space in between that energy.

According to natural law, lions and gazelles need to consume certain nutrients to survive. Lions prey upon gazelles to meet those nutritional requirements within the context of their environment.


http://vimeo.com/19293504
All the earth's resources are held as the common heritage of all the earth's people. The real wealth of any nation is not its money, but its resources and the people who are working toward eliminating scarcity for a more humane society for all.
-Roxanne Meadows

Your real wealth doesn't come from your concept of ownership. If folks don't accept that idea, it is simply because their cultural environment shapes a different idea about wealth.

[hazek]

You're delusions of what the truth really is are not even worth replying to so this will be my last post addressed to you Jim Casey:

Throughout the history of mankind the free market has and still does provide us with an ever higher standard of living with a market that fulfilled ever more of our wants and needs and you're ideas of a centrally planed economy have always had people starve and suffer and ultimately die an unnecessary gruesome death, so you can just piss of and get a fking clue. Got that?

[Jim Casey]

You're delusions of what the truth really is are not even worth replying to so this will be my last post addressed to you Jim Casey:
I enjoyed our transcendent communication as well.

Throughout the history of mankind the free market has and still does provide us with an ever higher standard of living with a market that fulfilled ever more of our wants and needs and you're ideas of a centrally planed economy have always had people starve and suffer and ultimately die an unnecessary gruesome death, so you can just piss of and get a fking clue. Got that?
Standards of living measured in monetary terms always distort the values of any society away from natural law, and free market utopian doctrine may be interpreted in such a way as to blame social problems on actions that are somehow detached from the culture that adherence to free market utopian doctrine creates.

Folks who lack the purchasing power to obtain the necessities of life within a culture dominated by free market utopian doctrine frequently meet with unnecessarily gruesome conditions within their state of poverty, including the condition of an untimely demise.

http://rlv.zcache.com/sarah_palin_gotcha_sticker-p217252226911375078qjcl_400.jpg

[TIMB0B]

The concept of money is not scientific. Money is a tradition rooted in the concept of trade. Trade is a tradition rooted the concept of property. Property is a tradition rooted in the concept of scarcity, and also presupposes noncooperation.


What folks consider to be truth is always changing based upon ideas rooted in values developed within the context of cultural environment.

A new consciousness is emerging. Instead of folks referring to other folks in excremental terms, folks are beginning to understand that humanity and the planet are one single organism, and an organism at war with itself won't survive.

The anger and anxiety that is widespread within a culture dominated by free market utopianism can be cured by the immune system of the social world AKA The Zeitgeist Movement.

What do you do to the people that refuse to conform to this jargon, Jim?

[silverhandorder]

LOL Jim I know your movement is into psychology and shit and that is one of three models at looking at things. The model that does place needs as finite still acknowledges that you need far more than tho basic needs to be happy and that as long as you can not provide upper tier needs you are just being arbitrary at what needs you want to provide.

[Jim Casey]

What do you do to the people that refuse to conform to this jargon, Jim?
That ultimately depends on the unpredictable nature of the current societal collapse and what means are available to obtain my own necessities of life. I would prefer to keep communicating nonviolently. The goal is to obtain critical mass of demand for a Resource Based Economy in order for its establishment to occur, not to nail everyone as pegs into holes.

LOL Jim I know your movement is into psychology and shit and that is one of three models at looking at things. The model that does place needs as finite still acknowledges that you need far more than tho basic needs to be happy and that as long as you can not provide upper tier needs you are just being arbitrary at what needs you want to provide.
The emergent nature of the RBE allows for development of logistical readjustments toward maximizing levels of psychological well-being for everyone.

[Lord Xar]

Ever wonder why folks with lots of money would want to abandon the use of money?
No, because they never would. It is all talk without much substance, sorta like what you do. Just manipulation of language to achieve a desired outcome amongst the sheep.



Nobody really "thinks for herself/himself". All of our ideas and opinions are based upon our values, and those values are shaped by the cultural environment. Your ideas are a reflection of your society.

Way to remove the individual from the perception, and mold it into the collective.

You don't belong here.

[Jim Casey]

No, because they never would. It is all talk without much substance, sorta like what you do. Just manipulation of language to achieve a desired outcome amongst the sheep.
I'm glad you appreciate my linguistic proficiency. How long any individual who has amassed a large quantity of money can go without using money depends entirely upon the social values of that individual's cultural environment.

Way to remove the individual from the perception, and mold it into the collective.

You don't belong here.
My process of adjusting my communication patterns in order to be welcome at ronpaulforums.com has been evolving over the course of nearly four years in response to the changing cultural environment.

[silverhandorder]

The emergent nature of the RBE allows for development of logistical readjustments toward maximizing levels of psychological well-being for everyone.

Sorry I don't want you messing with my head or the head of anyone else I know. You can try to convince be but if that fails you are shit out of luck. So far you have not provided me a good reason why I should pool my resources with you. Where is this machine? Where is the prototypes?

[hazek]

That ultimately depends on the unpredictable nature of the current societal collapse and what means are available to obtain my own necessities of life. I would prefer to keep communicating nonviolently. The goal is to obtain critical mass of demand for a Resource Based Economy in order for its establishment to occur, not to nail everyone into pegs.

Translation:

As the current society collapses he will use any means necessary to meet his needs and wants. He would rather not be as blunt upfront because he would prefer a democracy do his dirty deeds for him and he knows it'll take some fine tuned kumbaya utopian propaganda to get the majority on board at first.


The emergent nature of the RBE allows for development of logistical readjustments toward maximizing levels of psychological well-being for everyone.

Translation:

According to his(their) plan if people wont voluntarily comply they will be forced to accept his utopian RBE marxist ideals with the motto "For the greater good".




It's really hard to translate his bullshit. It's interesting how whenever he has to give a straight answer to a tough question and it's painfully obvious there's no other logical and reasonable answer then something violent or otherwise negative, his use of the english language suddenly doesn't make any sense anymore.

Please people just ignore him.. Don't feed the zombies, you don't want them to come back for more do you? :confused:

[ClayTrainor]

lol, here we go again.

When do I get my free stuff?

[silverhandorder]

I think we need new strategy for this troll. He uses our arguments as a platform to spam his own thread and keep it bumped. A)Either ignore him or B) keep asking after every bump for the proof his system works. He can not provide either. Everything is speeches of one communist theoretician after another.

[Jim Casey]

Sorry I don't want you messing with my head or the head of anyone else I know. You can try to convince be but if that fails you are shit out of luck. So far you have not provided me a good reason why I should pool my resources with you. Where is this machine? Where is the prototypes?
Effective communication is all about the level of successfully messing with another's head. It's never a matter of luck that determines the outcome of communication, it is rather the level of comprehension of the communication and the dominant cultural values that determines the nature of the actions taken.

Since I have no survey of what resources you lay claim to, I lack an concise referent of how much your idea of not cooperating with others will effect society at large logistically.

[AuH20]

Eliminating resource scarcity = universal happiness. It's a fool-proof plan, guys!!! We should join up. :)

[Wesker1982]

Worthy of reposting for this thread:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6c11sREuEc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLSxITH-1tE

[TIMB0B]

lol, here we go again.

When do i get my free stuff?

lol!

[Icymudpuppy]

Is that the same Michelle Rodriguez that did a playboy centerfold back in 2004?

[silverhandorder]

Effective communication is all about the level of successfully messing with another's head. It's never a matter of luck that determines the outcome of communication, it is rather the level of comprehension of the communication and the dominant cultural values that determines the nature of the actions taken.

Since I have no survey of what resources you lay claim to, I lack an concise referent of how much your idea of not cooperating with others will effect society at large logistically.

So how you going to make me tell you what resources I got?

[Jeremy]

It is interesting to note that an individual with a very high monetary income as well as celebrity social status would be inspired by the idea of a society without money.

Someone in Hollywood is a communist? No way!

[Xavi1990]

The rants about the Venus Project being Communist show the lack of understanding about the Venus Project. Calling it Marxist is asinine and is the same nonsense that came out of Alex Jones when he interviewed Peter Joesph.

[ClayTrainor]

The rants about the Venus Project being Communist show the lack of understanding about the Venus Project.

"The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property." - Karl Marx

How does the VP feel about private property?

[Jim Casey]

As the current society collapses he will use any means necessary to meet his needs and wants. He would rather not be as blunt upfront because he would prefer a democracy do his dirty deeds for him and he knows it'll take some fine tuned kumbaya utopian propaganda to get the majority on board at first.
I would prefer to use the best means available to meet my survival needs and adjust my methods by assessing them in order to best achieve certain goals.

According to his(their) plan if people wont voluntarily comply they will be forced to accept his utopian RBE marxist ideals with the motto "For the greater good".
Folks are ultimately forced by natural law to get their survival needs met. I would certainly consider my means of influencing others to embrace my vision for the future society to be more profound than mere sloganeering.

It's really hard to translate his bullshit. It's interesting how whenever he has to give a straight answer to a tough question and it's painfully obvious there's no other logical and reasonable answer then something violent or otherwise negative, his use of the english language suddenly doesn't make any sense anymore.
In three words, I don't know. More specifically, I don't fully understand what level of violence will take place during the transition, but it would be a level I would do my best to minimize. I prefer nonviolent communication.

Please people just ignore him.. Don't feed the zombies, you don't want them to come back for more do you? :confused:
To keep with the undead theme, would you consider me to be more of a zombie, or a vampire?

Within a monetary system, there are only two means of survival: Become a prostitute, or become a parasite.

lol, here we go again.

When do I get my free stuff?
You wouldn't own the stuff you get access to in a RBE. If you would like a taste of a similar method of accessing "free stuff", check out some items from your local library.

I think we need new strategy for this troll. He uses our arguments as a platform to spam his own thread and keep it bumped. A)Either ignore him or B) keep asking after every bump for the proof his system works. He can not provide either. Everything is speeches of one communist theoretician after another.
There is plenty of evidence that human behavior can be changed. The society model designed by The Venus Project is based upon technically feasible processes of engineering.

Eliminating resource scarcity = universal happiness. It's a fool-proof plan, guys!!! We should join up. :)
Happiness isn't the goal in eliminating scarcity of resource access, although higher levels of happiness, freedom, and success can occur when the need to compete to obtain the resources necessary for survival is removed from the societal structure.

Worthy of reposting for this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYyicqwR7LU

Is that the same Michelle Rodriguez that did a playboy centerfold back in 2004?
I didn't refer to the practice of nailing pegs into holes without ambiguous intent.

So how you going to make me tell you what resources I got?
If the resources you lay claim to are socially irresponsible, it won't be difficult to quantify. If somebody says the entire continent of Africa is their backyard, we'll know what that individual doesn't want to share.

Someone in Hollywood is a communist? No way!
There is a lot to be said about the cultural environment within that particular part of the world, many specifics of which are not welcome discussions within the context of the cultural environment we are sharing here.

The rants about the Venus Project being Communist show the lack of understanding about the Venus Project. Calling it Marxist is asinine and is the same nonsense that came out of Alex Jones when he interviewed Peter Joesph.
Until the Wright brothers managed to successfully build a flying machine, the scientific establishment extensively documented the purported impossibility of a structure that could carry a man across the sky.

Just as some folks once said "flying is for the birds", some folks today say "society without money is communism".

"The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property." - Karl Marx

How does the VP feel about private property?
Rather than abolishing private property, TVP aims to make the concept of private property obsolete.

[Liberty Rebellion]

I could never stand Michelle Rodriguez in ANY of the movies I have seen her in, mostly because she plays the EXACT same character: a tough, take-no-shit chic. LAME!

And her liking the Venus Project just makes her even more annoying to me.... NOOOOOOOOOO

[silverhandorder]

There is plenty of evidence that human behavior can be changed. The society model designed by The Venus Project is based upon technically feasible processes of engineering.

Jim that does not answer my question. How are you going to convince me? Just saying you will does not mean that you will.

[Jim Casey]

I could never stand Michelle Rodriguez in ANY of the movies I have seen her in, mostly because she plays the EXACT same character: a tough, take-no-shit chic. LAME!

And her liking the Venus Project just makes her even more annoying to me.... NOOOOOOOOOO
In a monetary market system, the two methods of survival are prostitution and parasitism. She'll play whatever roles will acquire the purchasing power necessary to pay the price tag on her basic necessities.

Jim that does not answer my question. How are you going to convince me? Just saying you will does not mean that you will.
I don't know how yet. If I did, I already would have. Ultimately it's really just a critical mass of the majority of the population of the society that needs to be convinced for the current system to change.

[silverhandorder]

Well what is that critical mass?

[Jim Casey]

Well what is that critical mass?
My estimate would be 50%. An analogy would be if 50% of Americans decided to stop filing with the IRS, the income tax system wouldn't work anymore.

[silverhandorder]

Sure so howis that 50% going to get their hands on the rest of the resources?

[Jim Casey]

Sure so howis that 50% going to get their hands on the rest of the resources?
Distribution systems are built into The Venus Project city design. Technical blueprints for continental societal redesigns will be an emergent transitional development. If the majority of the folks on the continent won't go along with the design, it won't work. They'll be stuck inside the currently collapsing system.

Redesigns on a continental basis would expand to global societal redesign, encompassing ocean cities as well. Polar regions could also be used for surplus food storage.

[Xavi1990]

"The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property." - Karl Marx

How does the VP feel about private property?

"And be it as on earth as it is in heaven." Your point?

Yes, Marx did say that and in the Venus Project there would be no private property. But the alternative offered by the Venus Project is the antithesis of Marxism.

If you have followed Fresco, you will know he joined the communist party when he was 16 but was quickly kicked out because he asked questions such as: How will Communism augment the Agricultural yield? How will communism house everyone? How will communism stop corruption? And on and on and on.

What Marx offered compared to what Fresco is offering is wholly different. Also, Marxism claims to be a Utopia. Fresco says no such thing as that.

Fresco has thoroughly went through all the notions that it is Communism, or Brave New World and all the other follies that are put forward to deride the Venus Project. I have my own trepidations about the Venus Project such as age of consent, abortion, who decides, etc. But I'd rather live in the Venus Project then this monetary system.

You'll also see my aversions towards Monetary Socialism by looking at my signature.

[ClayTrainor]

"And be it as on earth as it is in heaven." Your point?

Yes, Marx did say that and in the Venus Project there would be no private property.

Therefore, the VP is a flavor of marxism, according to marx's opinion, not mine.

[silverhandorder]

Distribution systems are built into The Venus Project city design. Technical blueprints for continental societal redesigns will be an emergent transitional development. If the majority of the folks on the continent won't go along with the design, it won't work. They'll be stuck inside the currently collapsing system.

Redesigns on a continental basis would expand to global societal redesign, encompassing ocean cities as well. Polar regions could also be used for surplus food storage.

So you going to make a competing system with the resources you have? Ok gl.

@Xavi

Just because he asked difficult questions of communism does not mean what he is proposing is not communism. To put it bluntly he wants to do socialism the "right" way. Unfortunately for him that is an impossible task.

[ClayTrainor]

But the alternative offered by the Venus Project is the antithesis of Marxism.

The antithesis to marxism is private property, according to marx.

"The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property." - Karl Marx

[Xavi1990]

Therefore, the VP is a flavor of marxism, according to marx's opinion, not mine.

Yes, government, labor, money, police, armies, elites etc. That's all in the Venus Project.

What next? Kucinich is the same as Hitler because he's vegetarian?

[Xavi1990]

The antithesis to marxism is private property, according to marx.

"The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property." - Karl Marx

And what did Marx offer?

"according to marx" Yes, exactly. According to a man who actually thought that workers would unite and take over the world.

[silverhandorder]

Yes, government, labor, money, police, armies, elites etc. That's all in the Venus Project.

What next? Kucinich is the same as Hitler because he's vegetarian?

So what is TVP then? Is it just like some club of people that want to make awesome tech?

[ClayTrainor]

Yes, government, labor, money, police, armies, elites etc. That's all in the Venus Project.

Nowhere did I refer to money, police, armies or elites. The communist manifest is just Marx's plan to achieve communism, however I am talking about the core principle of communism, as it was according to marx. Allow me to remind you...

"The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property." - Karl Marx



What next? Kucinich is the same as Hitler because he's vegetarian?

Was the Hitlers political philosophy of Nazism based on vegeterianism? ;)

Did hitler ever say something like...

"The philosophy of nazism may be summed up in one sentence, no one can eat meat!" :p

No, he didn't, because vegetarianism had nothing to do with Hitlers political philosophy which led to crimes against humanity. So it's not a good comparison.

[ClayTrainor]

And what did Marx offer?

The theory of communism which may be summed up in one sentence. Abolish all private property. ;)

[Xavi1990]

So what is TVP then? Is it just like some club of people that want to make awesome tech?

Go through my posts. I already stated what I believe it to be. I also stated my apprehension about it.

An abbreviated explanation of what it is would be: A technological management of the earths resources to better the human race. End tedious labour. Improve food production. Improve transport. Etc, etc.

I can give you good links of Fresco if you want? All of the questions about Marxism are answered.

[Xavi1990]

The theory of communism which may be summed up in one sentence. Abolish all private property. ;)

But what did Marx offer? C'mon man, what did Marx offer as an alternative? So far, you won't answer what he offered compared to what Fresco is offering. You have to answer what Fresco is offering. Marx wanted to abolish all private property. Then centralization, blah, blah blah. What is Fresco offering?

"And be it as on earth as it is in heaven" As much as I admire Ron Paul, I don't think people not getting any help from people or a higher power(government) is an idea of heaven.

[silverhandorder]

The links are not necessary.

My question is why is the money then such a problem? If anything money would aid your goals.

[Xavi1990]

The links are not necessary.

My question is why is the money then such a problem? If anything money would aid your goals.

I'm not sure I understand your question?

Regarding money. I love it. Who doesn't? The free market system is responsible for all the good we have, but most of the bad as well. Particularly 20th century history - read Sutton's books.

I just think that the VP has alternative to go further than the free market system.

[ClayTrainor]

But what did Marx offer? C'mon man, what did Marx offer as an alternative?

Communism. Central Planning. The Abolishment of Private Property.



So far, you won't answer what he offered compared to what Fresco is offering. You have to answer what Fresco is offering. Marx wanted to abolish all private property. Then centralization, blah, blah blah. What is Fresco offering?

I'm sure the plans outlined in the communist manifest and the plans in the VP have some notable differences, however, they appear to be rooted in a very similar principle in regards to property rights.

My point is to compare the core principles, not the plan to achieve them.

"The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property." - Karl Marx

[silverhandorder]

I'm not sure I understand your question?

Regarding money. I love it. Who doesn't? The free market system is responsible for all the good we have, but most of the bad as well. Particularly 20th century history - read Sutton's books.

I just think that the VP has alternative to go further than the free market system.
Well why is money something that must go away? I for example also like using money and unless someone offers me an alternative that can satisfy me better I would be reluctant to just give up money.

[Xavi1990]

Communism. Central Planning. The Abolishment of Private Property.



I'm sure the plans outlined in the communist manifest and the plans in the VP have some notable differences, however, they appear to be rooted in a very similar principle in regards to property rights.

My point is to compare the core principles, not the plan to achieve them.

"The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property." - Karl Marx

Yes, I am understand what you are saying. But its the alternative that the VP is offering that is the key point. Hence, it's the antithesis to Marxism.

[silverhandorder]

What will TVP do about a portion of society that will not join it?

[ClayTrainor]

I just think that the VP has alternative to go further than the free market system.

Freedom exists where force and coercion do not. Markets exist where people are exchanging resources and ideas with one another.

Free markets exist where people are exchanging resources and ideas with one another, without the use of force or coercion.

To oppose free-markets is to suggest the use of coercion and force against innocent people.

[ClayTrainor]

Yes, I am understand what you are saying. But its the alternative that the VP is offering that is the key point.

The plans to abolish private property are different, but the principle of getting rid of private property is the same. Is this a fair thing to say?


Hence, it's the antithesis to Marxism.

The antithesis to communism, is private property / Capitalism, according to Marx. I'm pretty sure the VP is not in favor of these things.

[Xavi1990]

Well why is money something that must go away? I for example also like using money and unless someone offers me an alternative that can satisfy me better I would be reluctant to just give up money.

Exactly, I agree man. I'm the same. I'm not vehemently supporting the VP. I just think the technology should be used first. By why isn't the technology that is available made readily available? Because of the free market and competition, oil companies, corporation, etc would loose billions and billions if we had real renewable energy. I'm not talking about windmills here.

Look at Fresco's interview in 1974 with Larry King for a key understanding of technology that is available. It's ineffable.

The reason people who advocate a system without money because money is the problem. The scarcity that exist and with a free market system leads to corruption, elites, etc. Same goes for Socialism, it always ends up in elites, power struggles, oligarchies and on and on.

But i love the way people who say a return to the free market and an end of the fed will fix everything. They call the VP a Utopian dream yet harp on about their precious free market as if it will fix everything. Not to mention the 15 or so recessions America had before 1913.

[Xavi1990]

The plans to abolish private property are different, but the principle of getting rid of private property is the same. Is this a fair thing to say?



The antithesis to communism, is private property / Capitalism, according to Marx. I'm pretty sure the VP is not in favor of these things.

Haha, we're really going to do this all day, are we? Haha.

Well, OK. To you, it's Marxism. To me, it's different. But I get your point.

I'm just a big fan of the VP and Fresco. As I said, I have my own trepidations about the VP though.

[LiveFree79]

The free market is the scientific method in capitalism. However, government intervention has corrupted it by subsidizing inefficiency in the name of "what's good for us" rather than letting the consumer individually decide what's best for them.

BUT THIS IS MY BIGGEST GRIPE WITH PEOPLE THAT SAY EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAY! The American consumer is the BIGGEST MORON on the planet in many ways. I mean if we left our country and our economy up to the average consumer we'd be......well in the exact mess that we are in. That is the biggest gripe I have when people discuss economics. Look at all the stupid shit people buy and spend their money on. The consumer is at times a mindless drone awash in materialism. Most of the time they dont know what's good for them. But I guess everyone should have the right to be free and make stupid decisions. But more so now than ever as the world and planet gets more crowded those stupid decisions are affecting those of us who make smarter more responsible decisions.

Look at all the stupid shit Americans spend their money on.....

[LiveFree79]

Also Michelle Rodriguez is just another hot ass Hollywood celebrity that will spoonfeed whatever is cool, hip and different. That's how these Hollywood idiots are. I'm not saying she's an idiot but come on. You honestly expect someone that is surrounded by hollywood most of her life and what hollywood stands for to "get it".

[LiveFree79]

America needs to return to community power and local power. Power to own land, grow your own food, rely on yourselves and your neighbors and your community! America used to be a country of self sustaining communities. The Venus Project is bullshit. Mankind and society will never change unless we go back to owning land, providing for ourselves, and our communities. Otherwise government regardless of a "free" market will always be controlled and corrupted. People in essence need more control and power over their own lives. The Native Americans that roamed North America were some of the most free people that ever lived economcially speaking. They didn't need money. They provided for their tribe and relied on nature and their own two hands. They traded. That's what society and America needs............not some fucking pie in the sky venus project and you're right ending the fed and having a free market means dick diddily either unless people own land and can provide for themselves on a local community wide scale. America is too big and too much power is cocentrated in the hands of a few. America flourished because of it's agrarian roots community roots.

[silverhandorder]

@LiveFree

I don't think anyone should care about the consumer. If you don't think they are smart enough well they are only hurting them selves. The point of who you quoted was the bad that is done in the name of protecting consumers and not some type of statement that consumers know best.

@Xavi

As long as we can agree that neither one of us will try to use force to acquire resources from another I can work with you. Obviously we disagree about the bad effects of free market. Maybe some of that can be remedied through debate (stick around we have quote a bit of liberal posters).

[ClayTrainor]

BUT THIS IS MY BIGGEST GRIPE WITH PEOPLE THAT SAY EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAY! The American consumer is the BIGGEST MORON on the planet in many ways. I mean if we left our country and our economy up to the average consumer we'd be......well in the exact mess that we are in. That is the biggest gripe I have when people discuss economics. Look at all the stupid shit people buy and spend their money on. The consumer is at times a mindless drone awash in materialism. Most of the time they dont know what's good for them. But I guess everyone should have the right to be free and make stupid decisions. But more so now than ever as the world and planet gets more crowded those stupid decisions are affecting those of us who make smarter more responsible decisions.

Look at all the stupid shit Americans spend their money on.....

Look at how far some of the consumer products have come in such a short period of time. They are constantly getting better and cheaper, despite inflation.

TV's, computers, cell phones, all information technology, Musical instruments, etc.

Many of these products and technologies have changed the world for the better, and have the potential to change the world for the better, if we can keep making them cheaper and better so more people can have them. Without consumers having the ability to make free choices in the market, these things will surely get more expensive and worse in virtually every way due to the economic calculation problem.

[Xavi1990]

@LiveFree

I don't think anyone should care about the consumer. If you don't think they are smart enough well they are only hurting them selves. The point of who you quoted was the bad that is done in the name of protecting consumers and not some type of statement that consumers know best.

@Xavi

As long as we can agree that neither one of us will try to use force to acquire resources from another I can work with you. Obviously we disagree about the bad effects of free market. Maybe some of that can be remedied through debate (stick around we have quote a bit of liberal posters).

If you were insinuating that I'm a Liberal, I'm far from it. In this system, I'd be an anarcho capitalist......... but I do have a soft spot for free health care, ha(waiting to be derided for the contradiction).

[ClayTrainor]

If you were insinuating that I'm a Liberal, I'm far from it. In this system, I'd be an anarcho capitalist......... but I do have a soft spot for free health care, ha(waiting to be derided for the contradiction).

I'm just amused that you're aware of it, and continue to hold it. :p :)

[silverhandorder]

If you were insinuating that I'm a Liberal, I'm far from it. In this system, I'd be an anarcho capitalist......... but I do have a soft spot for free health care, ha(waiting to be derided for the contradiction).

Sorry you used some arguments I usually hear from liberals. Do you read mises.org by any chance? Lately they had a good series of lectures that they published that addresses the idea that we had more panics before FED stepped in.

[Jim Casey]

"And be it as on earth as it is in heaven." Your point?

Yes, Marx did say that and in the Venus Project there would be no private property. But the alternative offered by the Venus Project is the antithesis of Marxism.

If you have followed Fresco, you will know he joined the communist party when he was 16 but was quickly kicked out because he asked questions such as: How will Communism augment the Agricultural yield? How will communism house everyone? How will communism stop corruption? And on and on and on.

What Marx offered compared to what Fresco is offering is wholly different. Also, Marxism claims to be a Utopia. Fresco says no such thing as that.

Fresco has thoroughly went through all the notions that it is Communism, or Brave New World and all the other follies that are put forward to deride the Venus Project. I have my own trepidations about the Venus Project such as age of consent, abortion, who decides, etc. But I'd rather live in the Venus Project then this monetary system.

You'll also see my aversions towards Monetary Socialism by looking at my signature.
I look forward to living within a Resource Based Economy as well.

Therefore, the VP is a flavor of marxism, according to marx's opinion, not mine.
Marxists that Fresco communicated with in the past expelled him from their meetings for asking to create technical sectors and asking how to avoid corruption. Their reason for expelling him? He was deviating from Marx. Marxists declared Fresco to be too deviant to be welcome amongst them.

So you going to make a competing system with the resources you have? Ok gl.

@Xavi

Just because he asked difficult questions of communism does not mean what he is proposing is not communism. To put it bluntly he wants to do socialism the "right" way. Unfortunately for him that is an impossible task.
For a long time folks also believed it to be impossible to build a flying machine. Some folks today believe it to be impossible to build a global society without money and not resemble what they consider to be a socialist or communist nation.

At one time, it was impossible to build a flying machine. The reason why is because the technical know-how wasn't yet developed using the scientific method.

The antithesis to marxism is private property, according to marx.

"The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property." - Karl Marx
Just because one man said that the antithesis to his ideas is private property, doesn't mean that everyone else for centuries to come who doesn't adhere to the concept of private property is living up to that man's ideas and all their ideas must be labelled with that man's name with the ism suffix attached.

Yes, government, labor, money, police, armies, elites etc. That's all in the Venus Project.

What next? Kucinich is the same as Hitler because he's vegetarian?
Repeated surface associations to unpopular historical characters are transparent ad hominems.

And what did Marx offer?

"according to marx" Yes, exactly. According to a man who actually thought that workers would unite and take over the world.
Also a man who lived in a society where technological unemployment was not a threat to survival.

So what is TVP then? Is it just like some club of people that want to make awesome tech?
TVP offers a direction towards a better society by applying the scientific method to social concern and global resource management. Applying technology that was designed to free us from labor is simply a means to attain those objectives.

Nowhere did I refer to money, police, armies or elites. The communist manifest is just Marx's plan to achieve communism, however I am talking about the core principle of communism, as it was according to marx. Allow me to remind you...

"The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property." - Karl Marx



Was the Hitlers political philosophy of Nazism based on vegeterianism? ;)

Did hitler ever say something like...

"The philosophy of nazism may be summed up in one sentence, no one can eat meat!" :p

No, he didn't, because vegetarianism had nothing to do with Hitlers political philosophy which led to crimes against humanity. So it's not a good comparison.
You'll notice that as many times as Marx will be quoted here, folks never quote Kennedy.

The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty, and all forms of human life.
John F. Kennedy

Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/words/ab/abolish126195.html#ixzz1H62cCLrE

Moving beyond all forms of human poverty can't happen when following free market utopian doctrine, but all human life can be eliminated by folks who lay claim to resources as property they want to defend.

The theory of communism which may be summed up in one sentence. Abolish all private property. ;)
Beyond politics, poverty, and war is the headline for The Venus Project, and that's not even a complete sentence.

Go through my posts. I already stated what I believe it to be. I also stated my apprehension about it.

An abbreviated explanation of what it is would be: A technological management of the earths resources to better the human race. End tedious labour. Improve food production. Improve transport. Etc, etc.

I can give you good links of Fresco if you want? All of the questions about Marxism are answered.
It's always good to include a link to a video of Fresco in a post on this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQYW4KFH56U

But what did Marx offer? C'mon man, what did Marx offer as an alternative? So far, you won't answer what he offered compared to what Fresco is offering. You have to answer what Fresco is offering. Marx wanted to abolish all private property. Then centralization, blah, blah blah. What is Fresco offering?

"And be it as on earth as it is in heaven" As much as I admire Ron Paul, I don't think people not getting any help from people or a higher power(government) is an idea of heaven.
Folks prefer to discuss that they're familiar with. That is why even though The Venus Project is what Fresco is offering, folks will talk about Marx because of surface associations. The day will come when even establishment politicians won't be able to make this side step without the intent to dodge being obvious.

The links are not necessary.

My question is why is the money then such a problem? If anything money would aid your goals.


I'm not sure I understand your question?

Regarding money. I love it. Who doesn't? The free market system is responsible for all the good we have, but most of the bad as well. Particularly 20th century history - read Sutton's books.

I just think that the VP has alternative to go further than the free market system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZHCVyllnck

Communism. Central Planning. The Abolishment of Private Property.



I'm sure the plans outlined in the communist manifest and the plans in the VP have some notable differences, however, they appear to be rooted in a very similar principle in regards to property rights.

My point is to compare the core principles, not the plan to achieve them.

"The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property." - Karl Marx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqNIkqX1CTA
Finite planet. Natural law. Scientific method. These are the core principles of the Resource Based Economy.

Well why is money something that must go away? I for example also like using money and unless someone offers me an alternative that can satisfy me better I would be reluctant to just give up money.
Lots of folks are unwilling to give up the most corrupting medium of the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9sWqYcVTqQ

Yes, I am understand what you are saying. But its the alternative that the VP is offering that is the key point. Hence, it's the antithesis to Marxism.
Marx valued the rule of labor. Fresco values freeing man from labor. Quite antithetical indeed.

What will TVP do about a portion of society that will not join it?
That's what TZM is for. It's the activist arm of TVP, intent on increasing demand for the Resource Based Economy through nonviolent communication.

Freedom exists where force and coercion do not. Markets exist where people are exchanging resources and ideas with one another.

Free markets exist where people are exchanging resources and ideas with one another, without the use of force or coercion.

To oppose free-markets is to suggest the use of coercion and force against innocent people.
Markets exist to restrict access to resources that have been claimed as property. It forces folks to engage in trade to meet their survival needs. There are only two methods of survival in a market system: prostitution and parasitism.

Your level of freedom in a market system is the level of your purchasing power. The only freedom anybody has is natural law. Any societies that allow more freedom than others only does so because of the structure of those societies.

The plans to abolish private property are different, but the principle of getting rid of private property is the same. Is this a fair thing to say?



The antithesis to communism, is private property / Capitalism, according to Marx. I'm pretty sure the VP is not in favor of these things.
The plan to manage the earth's resources by applying the scientific method to social concern is antithetical to both the laborer's utopia (communism) and the trader's utopia (capitalism).

Exactly, I agree man. I'm the same. I'm not vehemently supporting the VP. I just think the technology should be used first. By why isn't the technology that is available made readily available? Because of the free market and competition, oil companies, corporation, etc would loose billions and billions if we had real renewable energy. I'm not talking about windmills here.

Look at Fresco's interview in 1974 with Larry King for a key understanding of technology that is available. It's ineffable.

The reason people who advocate a system without money because money is the problem. The scarcity that exist and with a free market system leads to corruption, elites, etc. Same goes for Socialism, it always ends up in elites, power struggles, oligarchies and on and on.

But i love the way people who say a return to the free market and an end of the fed will fix everything. They call the VP a Utopian dream yet harp on about their precious free market as if it will fix everything. Not to mention the 15 or so recessions America had before 1913.
Money, designed for convenience, developed into corruption.

Haha, we're really going to do this all day, are we? Haha.

Well, OK. To you, it's Marxism. To me, it's different. But I get your point.

I'm just a big fan of the VP and Fresco. As I said, I have my own trepidations about the VP though.
Zeitgeist Moving Forward was the film that convinced me that The Zeitgeist Movement walks the walk and not just talks the talk as far as turning the technically feasible designs of The Venus Project into an in-demand social structure. As I said before in my "Why I Advocate TZM" video, it means a lot to me to be a part of it.

BUT THIS IS MY BIGGEST GRIPE WITH PEOPLE THAT SAY EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAY! The American consumer is the BIGGEST MORON on the planet in many ways. I mean if we left our country and our economy up to the average consumer we'd be......well in the exact mess that we are in. That is the biggest gripe I have when people discuss economics. Look at all the stupid shit people buy and spend their money on. The consumer is at times a mindless drone awash in materialism. Most of the time they dont know what's good for them. But I guess everyone should have the right to be free and make stupid decisions. But more so now than ever as the world and planet gets more crowded those stupid decisions are affecting those of us who make smarter more responsible decisions.

Look at all the stupid shit Americans spend their money on.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbxq0IDqD04

Also Michelle Rodriguez is just another hot ass Hollywood celebrity that will spoonfeed whatever is cool, hip and different. That's how these Hollywood idiots are. I'm not saying she's an idiot but come on. You honestly expect someone that is surrounded by hollywood most of her life and what hollywood stands for to "get it".
As far as anyone "getting it" goes, all of our perceptions are based on the information we receive from our cultural environment, regardless of what part of the world you're from or your terms of employment.

America needs to return to community power and local power. Power to own land, grow your own food, rely on yourselves and your neighbors and your community! America used to be a country of self sustaining communities. The Venus Project is bullshit. Mankind and society will never change unless we go back to owning land, providing for ourselves, and our communities. Otherwise government regardless of a "free" market will always be controlled and corrupted. People in essence need more control and power over their own lives. The Native Americans that roamed North America were some of the most free people that ever lived economcially speaking. They didn't need money. They provided for their tribe and relied on nature and their own two hands. They traded. That's what society and America needs............not some fucking pie in the sky venus project and you're right ending the fed and having a free market means dick diddily either unless people own land and can provide for themselves on a local community wide scale. America is too big and too much power is cocentrated in the hands of a few. America flourished because of it's agrarian roots community roots.
Applying the scientific method to global resource management and social concern is antithetical to an agrarian utopia (tribalism).

@LiveFree

I don't think anyone should care about the consumer. If you don't think they are smart enough well they are only hurting them selves. The point of who you quoted was the bad that is done in the name of protecting consumers and not some type of statement that consumers know best.

@Xavi

As long as we can agree that neither one of us will try to use force to acquire resources from another I can work with you. Obviously we disagree about the bad effects of free market. Maybe some of that can be remedied through debate (stick around we have quote a bit of liberal posters).
Advertisers purposely deceive consumers to maximize profit.

Look at how far some of the consumer products have come in such a short period of time. They are constantly getting better and cheaper, despite inflation.

TV's, computers, cell phones, all information technology, Musical instruments, etc.

Many of these products and technologies have changed the world for the better, and have the potential to change the world for the better, if we can keep making them cheaper and better so more people can have them. Without consumers having the ability to make free choices in the market, these things will surely get more expensive and worse in virtually every way due to the economic calculation problem.
Economic calculations can be better done without money. The real wealth of any nation is not its money. Money, designed for convenience, developed into corruption.

If you were insinuating that I'm a Liberal, I'm far from it. In this system, I'd be an anarcho capitalist......... but I do have a soft spot for free health care, ha(waiting to be derided for the contradiction).
Politics and political labels as we know them today will be phased out.

I'm just amused that you're aware of it, and continue to hold it. :p :)
The process of self-assessing behavioral patterns and readjusting can be quite amusing indeed.

Sorry you used some arguments I usually hear from liberals. Do you read mises.org by any chance? Lately they had a good series of lectures that they published that addresses the idea that we had more panics before FED stepped in.
I'm sure free market utopian doctrine will expand further into revisionist history so long as it's profitable to do so.

[silverhandorder]

Well Jim I am sure RPF will agree you are making a stellar case here for ignoring you :D. Good thing that people like Xavi exist to clean up your mess.

[Xavi1990]

Sorry you used some arguments I usually hear from liberals. Do you read mises.org by any chance? Lately they had a good series of lectures that they published that addresses the idea that we had more panics before FED stepped in.

No, I haven't read that. Will give it a look up soon.