Woman Loses her child to state because she refused to sign pre-consent form for Ceasarian

[amy31416]

Freaking New Jersey. They've had her kid for three years...and she LOST the case to get the kid back.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzPEVVCvRpc

(Excuse the liberal commentary at the end....)

[MikeStanart]

These violent bureaucrats should be in jail for 3 years without contact of their children. :mad:

[Agorism]

I agree that this story is outrageous....

Cenk was on fire in this video.

[Agorism]

Anna is proof that all Armenians must be really good looking (I think the Kardashians are the only other Armenian I can think of though)

[Agorism]

Dumbest judge on the $%^@#$ planet no doubt. Just think what he would do to people who do home births. Either that or there is something about this story that is missing, which is entirely possible.

[Batman]

That sucks donkey eggs. Can she still appeal?

[amy31416]

Dumbest judge on the $%^@#$ planet no doubt. Just think what he would do to people who do home births. Either that or there is something about this story that is missing, which is entirely possible.

The only thing that's come up in my internet search is that the mother had a prior history of mental illness, which wouldn't have made a bit of difference if she'd signed the paper. So it appears that it's still all about forcing her to sign. Some statements said that she was acting "erratically" (in refusing to sign), but I think that's the norm when in labor--so that's not a legit excuse either.


That sucks donkey eggs. Can she still appeal?

They gave custody to the foster parents--I don't know.

[specsaregood]

The only thing that's come up in my internet search is that the mother had a prior history of mental illness, which wouldn't have made a bit of difference if she'd signed the paper. So it appears that it's still all about forcing her to sign.

The court documents:
http://kidjacked.com/pdf/nj_a4627-06.pdf



As we have stated, the independent evidence presented, irrespective of the evidence concerning V.M.'s resistance to the c-section, amply supported the judge's ultimate finding as to V.M., and we affirm as to her. As to B.G., we reverse for the
reasons set forth in the concurring opinion.

and


Dr. Seltzer related
that she initially treated V.M. for post-traumatic stress
disorder but later began to appreciate that V.M. suffered from
either a schizoaffective disorder or a bipolar disorder

So the appellate court ruled that the c-section issue wasn't required for the ruling as she was acting nuts enough without that. Her own shrink thought she was schizo or bipolar.

[Agorism]

Psychiatry as an arm of the state podcast. (http://www.lewrockwell.com/lewrockwell-show/2008/11/20/71-psychiatry-as-an-arm-of-the-state/)

[amy31416]

The court documents:
http://kidjacked.com/pdf/nj_a4627-06.pdf


and


So the appellate court ruled that the c-section issue wasn't required for the ruling as she was acting nuts enough without that. Her own shrink thought she was schizo or bipolar.

12 years prior, is my understanding. And she was evaluated by a psychiatrist prior to having the child, who found her well enough to make her own decisions...it was the refusal to sign pre-consent (she stated that she would sign if it became necessary), that triggered it. And lots of people in this country are bi-polar, and have been treated for it--as she was.

She signed other consent forms with no issue, but c-sections have been known to be way overdone for a long time--it doesn't sound crazy to refuse to sign it, it sounds crazy if you do sign it unless there has been indicators that it will be necessary. In her case, there were no indicators of necessity.

Just today I went to the doctor and they were telling me that I needed to have some additional tests done, and that I had no choice but to stay if anything was off-kilter. I knew there wasn't anything wrong, but didn't see any harm in the tests, and wanted the reassurance...but it did get under my skin when they kept repeating "you have no choice." Of course I wondered what they would have done if I had refused and walked out...tackle me?

[specsaregood]

Just today I went to the doctor and they were telling me that I needed to have some additional tests done, and that I had no choice but to stay if anything was off-kilter. I knew there wasn't anything wrong, but didn't see any harm in the tests, and wanted the reassurance...but it did get under my skin when they kept repeating "you have no choice." Of course I wondered what they would have done if I had refused, and had walked out...tackle me?

Yeah, i'm not defending it, but the appeals court ruled that her behavior was crazy enough to warrant it and the c-section consent should not have been considered.

and


Dr. Vivian Chern Shnaidman performed a psychiatric
evaluation of V.M. and B.G. for DYFS. She stated that her
review of Dr. Seltzer's records indicated that V.M. was being
treated for a psychotic disorder. She noted that despite V.M.'s
high level of intelligence and education, she was not able to
comprehend her situation. The doctor concluded that V.M.
suffers from chronic paranoid schizophrenia and that her
prognosis for improvement is poor without psychiatric treatment


It is true though.....once they get you on their program you are stuck and will likely end up with a c-section.

[amy31416]

During her hospitalization in
anticipation of J.M.G.'s delivery, V.M. demonstrated combative
and erratic behavior including a refusal to consent to a
cesarean section (c-section)
1


Aren't most women in labor combative and erratic, or have I heard wrong? I've even heard of pregnant women hitting the nurses--and they had no history of mental disorders whatsoever.



Despite the medical opinion that .
the fetus demonstrated signs of distress and that the procedure
was necessary to avoid imminent danger to the fetus, the child
was born by vaginal delivery without incident.

From a hospital with a c-section rate over 50%? Uh huh.

I'm sure this will help with her chronic paranoid schizophrenia she had been treated for.

[anaconda]

We should money bomb this for a full on legal crucifixion of everyone involved. It would bring RP some great press as well and send a shot over the bow that we can get involved in issues when we want. Thoughts?

[specsaregood]

I'm sure this will help with her chronic paranoid schizophrenia she had been treated for.

My thoughts as well. The good part is the appeals court ruled that the c-section refusal should not have been used or considered in the original ruling and that it shouldn't be used in similar cases in the future. Unfortunately for the mom, the court felt like there was enough evidence of her being unfit to not reverse the overall ruling.

[amy31416]

We should money bomb this for a full on legal crucifixion of everyone involved. It would bring RP some great press as well and send a shot over the bow that we can get involved in issues when we want. Thoughts?

It's certainly a good non-partisan issue...but I'd like to see if there's interest first, and finish reading the court documents along with more factual information.


My thoughts as well. The good part is the appeals court ruled that the c-section refusal should not have been used or considered in the original ruling and that it shouldn't be used in similar cases in the future. Unfortunately for the mom, the court felt like there was enough evidence of her being unfit to not reverse the overall ruling.

Yeah...it's just that it's New Jersey + CPS--and now they can't back down or they'll probably get sued for a pretty hefty sum...and from what I've been reading (not in court docs as far as I know), she didn't lose her shit until they said they were taking her kid away. I doubt this woman has the resources to do anything about it...completely outrageous situation, if she's innocent. I'd be interested in hearing from her directly.

[sratiug]

Ron Paul has mentioned that c-sections were often performed mainly to prevent lawsuits.