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Freedom 4 all
03-17-2011, 10:44 AM
Here's a question that's been keeping me up at night lately. I'm not even sure how to word this, but bear with me. If you could forget everything you know about the evils of government, would you? Do you think it would be nice to feel a sense of thrill to pay taxes for all the "benefits" you get from the all-loving government, feel a sense of safety being protected by a benevolent police force with only your best interests at heart, and feel a sense of pride that we are spreading "freedom" in places like Iraq. You'd be completely wrong of course, but if it would be possible to feel this way, would that be a desirable thing? People are always telling me I'd have better "mental health" and be happier if I "take a better attitude towards the world" but I could no more pretend the above than I could pretend gravity makes shit go up, and I'm not even sure I would want to be like that if I could.

Original_Intent
03-17-2011, 10:47 AM
If I could be plugged back into the Matrix, would I? Heck no!

The truth, no matter how bad, is better than complacently going to the slaughterhouse.

muzzled dogg
03-17-2011, 10:47 AM
^^that

LibertyEagle
03-17-2011, 10:50 AM
The people who are telling you that, just want you to stop making them get out of their comfort zones. They prefer to be led to slaughter, apparently.

ChaosControl
03-17-2011, 10:52 AM
Here is a bluepill, op.

Freedom 4 all
03-17-2011, 11:05 AM
Incredibly, I actually wasn't even thinking about the matrix when I wrote that lol.

Romulus
03-17-2011, 11:05 AM
There are 2 kinds of people in this world. Those who deny and reject actual truth,, and those who crave it.

I know which one I am, and I'm proud of that fact.

specsaregood
03-17-2011, 11:32 AM
How do you know you aren't one? I doubt most sheep know they are a sheep. Maybe you are just a sheep of a different color?

hugolp
03-17-2011, 11:32 AM
The people who reject the truth to avoid shor term pain are just choosing long term and strong pain.

It might be disturbing sometimes to acknowledge the reality of the world we live in and can be even depressing sometimes, but it allows you to prepare and react much better, avoiding real pain. There really is no choice.


There are 2 kinds of people in this world. Those who deny and reject actual truth,, and those who crave it.

I know which one I am, and I'm proud of that fact.

Nicely worded.

heavenlyboy34
03-17-2011, 11:34 AM
Here's a question that's been keeping me up at night lately. I'm not even sure how to word this, but bear with me. If you could forget everything you know about the evils of government, would you? Do you think it would be nice to feel a sense of thrill to pay taxes for all the "benefits" you get from the all-loving government, feel a sense of safety being protected by a benevolent police force with only your best interests at heart, and feel a sense of pride that we are spreading "freedom" in places like Iraq. You'd be completely wrong of course, but if it would be possible to feel this way, would that be a desirable thing? People are always telling me I'd have better "mental health" and be happier if I "take a better attitude towards the world" but I could no more pretend the above than I could pretend gravity makes shit go up, and I'm not even sure I would want to be like that if I could.

Nope. I'm far freer knowing the evils of the regime because now I can take steps to avoid its reach. BTW, threads like this deserve a poll, IMHO. ;)

Who girl
03-17-2011, 11:42 AM
There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action.
- Goethe

Deborah K
03-17-2011, 11:42 AM
I'm one of the older members of this forum, older in membership, but also in age. I have grown children and grandchildren and at times, the things that I know about the government and the world keep me up at night because I fear for their future. So yes, sometimes I wish I had taken the blue pill. Ignorance is indeed bliss, but alas, you can't unring the bell. So, I'm in the world fighting in every way I can for posterity.

ctiger2
03-17-2011, 12:04 PM
http://kimchiicecream.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/the-matrix-_divx_-346_0001.jpg

Freedom 4 all
03-17-2011, 12:53 PM
How do you know you aren't one? I doubt most sheep know they are a sheep. Maybe you are just a sheep of a different color?

I'm the black sheep of my family/friends;).

Romulus
03-17-2011, 12:59 PM
That which is known, cannot be unknown.


I'm the black sheep of my family/friends;).

lol.

Koz
03-17-2011, 02:14 PM
There are 2 kinds of people in this world. Those who deny and reject actual truth,, and those who crave it.

I know which one I am, and I'm proud of that fact.

Exactly, the sucky thing is if I 'magically' could go back to being ignorant I would still seek out the truth, so essentially i would just have to re-learn everything I already learned. I suspect most people on this board are similar, so you'd just be going back to square one.

sevin
03-17-2011, 03:03 PM
I've thought about it. "Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?" Then I remember Cypher said that and Cypher was a fucking douche.

muzzled dogg
03-17-2011, 03:13 PM
lol ralphie cifareto

Anti Federalist
03-17-2011, 03:33 PM
http://kimchiicecream.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/the-matrix-_divx_-346_0001.jpg

Yeah, I admit it.

There are times I've felt like plugging back into The Matrix and forgetting it all.

My deeper conscious mind would never allow it, and I'd never sleep soundly again.

Jack Bauer
03-17-2011, 03:47 PM
John 8:32

bew2005
03-17-2011, 03:48 PM
Once you have freed yourself from the chains and see things as they truly are, you can never rechain yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

Sola_Fide
03-17-2011, 03:52 PM
http://kimchiicecream.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/the-matrix-_divx_-346_0001.jpg

Pretty classic^^^

JohnEngland
03-17-2011, 03:59 PM
John 8:32

It's so true.

enoch150
03-17-2011, 05:09 PM
Take the blue pill? The thought has never even crossed my mind. I never liked how the world worked even when I didn't understand it. Understanding it allows me to focus all my negative thoughts on one target (government) and I'm a lot more at peace now.

Freedom 4 all
03-17-2011, 06:12 PM
Once you have freed yourself from the chains and see things as they truly are, you can never rechain yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

Very true, there's also the part about how the douchebags who are still chained up will hate you for attempting to bring them knowledge.

Kylie
03-17-2011, 07:45 PM
Very true, there's also the part about how the douchebags who are still chained up will hate you for attempting to bring them knowledge.

That's so true.

They scorn me, make jokes at me, I'm the neighborhood kook.

What do I tell them?

It's great being me, since I don't have to care what you think.

QueenB4Liberty
03-17-2011, 07:48 PM
I don't think I could do it.

Seraphim
03-17-2011, 07:56 PM
Sometimes I think about banging my head against a wall to dumb myself down.

Original_Intent
03-17-2011, 08:15 PM
How do you know you aren't one? I doubt most sheep know they are a sheep. Maybe you are just a sheep of a different color?

Here's how I "know" (of course the argument existing that we can't truly know anything)

When I first "woke up" about 20 years ago, I went thru 6 months of literal hell. When I watched the Matrix and Neo puked his guts out - I totally understood what he was going thru. When you are faced with a truth so profound that it not only disturbs your paradigm, it shatters it you come to what I consider the ultimate choice. The choice so perfectly demonstrated in the blue pill/ red pill. You must either allow your paradigm to be destroyed, or you must destroy the truth that threatens to shatter it.

Now I would guess that maybe at best, somewhere between 1% and 5% of people choose the red pill. Having your paradigm obliterated is a bitch. And I would humbly submit that the biggest problem we have with the other 95% isn;t that they think we are crazy, it is that they have already been at the crossroads, they have already amde their choice, and when they hear the truth, they recognize the old enemy, the threat, and that is why most cannot just ignore us, they have to fight us. They can't just respect the difference of opinion, they have to RIDICULE. And they have to huddle together like sheep in order to reassure themselves that everything is OK.

Kludge
03-17-2011, 08:15 PM
With how much time I spend reading articles, thinking about morality, and on Internet forums, I'd have to be very stupid (or powerful) to not accept government as a high-priority problem in life. As stupid as I may be, I would never want to be *that* stupid.

That said, there are some ideas I wish I never entertained in philosophy (and perhaps religion) -- ideas which keep me up at night, demotivate me, and cause bouts of despair - not related to government. Government is at least something which can usually be manipulated to benefit you if you're willing to use it and should you oppose gov't, you always have an easy and noble cause. - So in that regard, I do wish I was a believer, not a skeptic.

Working Poor
03-17-2011, 08:23 PM
I have wished a few times that I was like most people, satisfied to work the same job for 30 years, able to fit in and conform, not standing out as different, not having people laugh at my ideas but, you can't have everything...

Icymudpuppy
03-17-2011, 08:31 PM
Today, Yes. I'll let you know if that changes.

Original_Intent
03-17-2011, 08:39 PM
With how much time I spend reading articles, thinking about morality, and on Internet forums, I'd have to be very stupid (or powerful) to not accept government as a high-priority problem in life. As stupid as I may be, I would never want to be *that* stupid.

That said, there are some ideas I wish I never entertained in philosophy (and perhaps religion) -- ideas which keep me up at night, demotivate me, and cause bouts of despair - not related to government. Government is at least something which can usually be manipulated to benefit you if you're willing to use it and should you oppose gov't, you always have an easy and noble cause. - So in that regard, I do wish I was a believer, not a skeptic.

Wow Kludge. If I am reading you right, the biggest thing you have against God is that He can;t be manipulated to your benefit, and choosing to oppose Him is not an easy or noble cause. (Is that what you are saying in essence or did I just now unintentionally twist your words?)

At any rate, I think most of the world doesn;t much understand God, even the uber-religious ones. I say God is the guy who always accepts the truth, even when the truth says that the only way to save mankind is to sacrifice your only son - I mean, doesn;t that just scream out as the ultimate injustice, that the one truly innocent MUST die in the place of the sinner? And yet God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. He accepted the truth that there was no other way.

Kludge
03-17-2011, 09:08 PM
The biggest thing I have against the concept of God is that, just like all other foundations of an ideology, my idea of what is and is not moral - what is and is not worth doing - comes from belief, nothing which can be verified (or maybe it can -- I maybe ["or maybe not" repeating] just don't know). To entertain the idea that anything and everything may or may not exist is devastating and maddening as far as I'm concerned.

Marenco
03-17-2011, 10:58 PM
Sometimes i do feel like that because at times it can take it's toll on me, but i rather know the truth than be kept in the dark.

Anti Federalist
03-17-2011, 11:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXQozTxQSiE


Here's how I "know" (of course the argument existing that we can't truly know anything)

When I first "woke up" about 20 years ago, I went thru 6 months of literal hell. When I watched the Matrix and Neo puked his guts out - I totally understood what he was going thru. When you are faced with a truth so profound that it not only disturbs your paradigm, it shatters it you come to what I consider the ultimate choice. The choice so perfectly demonstrated in the blue pill/ red pill. You must either allow your paradigm to be destroyed, or you must destroy the truth that threatens to shatter it.

Now I would guess that maybe at best, somewhere between 1% and 5% of people choose the red pill. Having your paradigm obliterated is a bitch. And I would humbly submit that the biggest problem we have with the other 95% isn;t that they think we are crazy, it is that they have already been at the crossroads, they have already amde their choice, and when they hear the truth, they recognize the old enemy, the threat, and that is why most cannot just ignore us, they have to fight us. They can't just respect the difference of opinion, they have to RIDICULE. And they have to huddle together like sheep in order to reassure themselves that everything is OK.

Vessol
03-18-2011, 01:19 AM
"The average man is a conformist, accepting miseries and disasters with the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain."-Colin Wilson

osan
03-18-2011, 07:09 AM
Here's a question that's been keeping me up at night lately. I'm not even sure how to word this, but bear with me. If you could forget everything you know about the evils of government, would you? Do you think it would be nice to feel a sense of thrill to pay taxes for all the "benefits" you get from the all-loving government, feel a sense of safety being protected by a benevolent police force with only your best interests at heart, and feel a sense of pride that we are spreading "freedom" in places like Iraq. You'd be completely wrong of course, but if it would be possible to feel this way, would that be a desirable thing? People are always telling me I'd have better "mental health" and be happier if I "take a better attitude towards the world" but I could no more pretend the above than I could pretend gravity makes shit go up, and I'm not even sure I would want to be like that if I could.

WTF? Is this even a serious question? Look around you. What have you ever witnessed in these forums that would lead you to believe that anyone here, save the usual cadre of trolls and other lamers, would want to be part of the orthodoxy? If you want to pose the question to an appropriate audience, you might consider sites like revleft.com. Those people are so monumentally stupid as to defy description. Actually, now that I think of those imbeciles, I wonder what they have been saying about their revolution in the wake of Obammy's election... been awhile since I looked there - might be time to yank a chain or two.

osan
03-18-2011, 07:10 AM
"The average man is a conformist, accepting miseries and disasters with the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain."-Colin Wilson

Nice.

Freedom 4 all
03-18-2011, 07:53 AM
WTF? Is this even a serious question? Look around you. What have you ever witnessed in these forums that would lead you to believe that anyone here, save the usual cadre of trolls and other lamers, would want to be part of the orthodoxy? If you want to pose the question to an appropriate audience, you might consider sites like revleft.com. Those people are so monumentally stupid as to defy description. Actually, now that I think of those imbeciles, I wonder what they have been saying about their revolution in the wake of Obammy's election... been awhile since I looked there - might be time to yank a chain or two.

The only people to whom posing a such question would even make sense are those smart enough to actually recognize what's wrong with society.

Teaser Rate
03-18-2011, 11:02 AM
I really hate the attitude that non-libertarians are uninformed or sheep that need to be awaken to some great truth.

Here’s a reality check, unless you make your livelihood on the back of the political process, your interest in politics is nothing more than a hobby. The fact that you adhere to a libertarian ideology doesn’t make any more informed or enlightened than anyone else. The guy who'd rather follow baseball instead of politics isn't an idiot for having different interests, and the guy who'd rather grow government instead of shrinking it isn't evil for having different values. We're all prone to confirmation bias, and having the belief that we're right and everyone else is wrong doesn't make you special, it makes you normal.

Here's an open question: out of the top 10 things you could do to improve your life, how many of them involve changing legislation? Yes, it would be great to pay fewer taxes and not have to deal with so many stupid laws, but ultimately this is still and free country, and we don’t need to change the government to change ourselves.

muzzled dogg
03-18-2011, 11:06 AM
think you're wrong bro

the guy who wants to raise taxes
1) needs to be awakened to the fact that he wants to steal from me
2) needs to be awakened to the fact that stealing is wrong; or
3) is evil

all three of these go against what you said

Teaser Rate
03-18-2011, 11:20 AM
Morality is subjective. Some people value liberty more than equality and others feel the opposite way.

Imagine a situation where there are 10 people stranded in the desert and only one of them has water. If that person refuses to share it with the rest, then a strict libertarian will support his decision because he values the principle of private property more than the lives of 9 people. A statist, on the other hand, will argue that it's morally right for that man to be forced to share his water with the others because in his eyes, 9 lives are more valuable than the principle of private property.

Which side of the coin you fall on ultimately depends on how you answer the age-old question do the ends justify the means ?

Freedom 4 all
03-18-2011, 11:26 AM
do the ends justify the means ?

Nope.

Stary Hickory
03-18-2011, 11:52 AM
Well I though like this too....and it truly is the Matrix analogy. You walk around knowing that people are being lied and deceived. You seem them act move and talk and yet understand they do not realize what the world around them really is...or who is pulling the strings. They seem like mindless drones just existing and reacting to the carefully packaged stimuli they are supposed to react to.

It would be nice to forget...but the problem is that reality is still there and it will make itself known. It is much better to know than to be caught off guard. I do feel like I am living in the Matrix movie...it is quite odd.

Deborah K
03-18-2011, 11:58 AM
I really hate the attitude that non-libertarians are uninformed or sheep that need to be awaken to some great truth.

Here’s a reality check, unless you make your livelihood on the back of the political process, your interest in politics is nothing more than a hobby. The fact that you adhere to a libertarian ideology doesn’t make any more informed or enlightened than anyone else. The guy who'd rather follow baseball instead of politics isn't an idiot for having different interests, and the guy who'd rather grow government instead of shrinking it isn't evil for having different values. We're all prone to confirmation bias, and having the belief that we're right and everyone else is wrong doesn't make you special, it makes you normal.

Here's an open question: out of the top 10 things you could do to improve your life, how many of them involve changing legislation? Yes, it would be great to pay fewer taxes and not have to deal with so many stupid laws, but ultimately this is still and free country, and we don’t need to change the government to change ourselves.

For the record, not everyone on this forum is a libertarian. I do not define my political persuasion as libertarian.

Anti Federalist
03-18-2011, 12:50 PM
"The average man is a conformist, accepting miseries and disasters with the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain."-Colin Wilson

Awesome quote.

Anti Federalist
03-18-2011, 01:00 PM
Here's an open question: out of the top 10 things you could do to improve your life, how many of them involve changing legislation? Yes, it would be great to pay fewer taxes and not have to deal with so many stupid laws, but ultimately this is still and free country, and we don’t need to change the government to change ourselves.

I think you're dismissing those of us for which this struggle has become deeply personal.

People who have been wrongly imprisoned by a runaway and out of control police state.

People who have their children taken from them and their families destroyed by an out of control court system.

People, like me, who have had, more than once, their livelihood taken from them by government decree.

People who have had sons, brothers, fathers, uncles killed or maimed in unjust, undeclared wars.

People who have lost their homes and everything they worked for when government has decided it wants their land.

People who have been shot and killed in midnight SWAT raids of the wrong house.

This isn't a academic debating society for people like me, and the millions of other Americans just like me who find themselves wronged in the ways I just mentioned and a million other ways as well.

What is frustrating is that it doesn't have to be that way, it could be turned around tomorrow, if only a vast majority of people would, in fact, "wake up".

But because the distractions and entertainment matrix of modern life is more important to them, they won't give a fuck about any of it...

Until it's happening to them.

Koz
03-18-2011, 01:22 PM
For the record, not everyone on this forum is a libertarian. I do not define my political persuasion as libertarian.

I agree, but would also say that the majority of folks on this forum either are full blown libertarian or definitely lean that way. That said, I really do think libertarians are more enlightened. You generally don't come to be a libertarian by following along witht 'the crowd', most libertarians I know were either dems or repubs that cognizantly changed thier political leanings by reading and reason.

enoch150
03-18-2011, 02:23 PM
http://www.bluepillproject.org/

Was there a reason for choosing that name?

enoch150
03-18-2011, 02:24 PM
Yes, it would be great to pay fewer taxes and not have to deal with so many stupid laws, but ultimately this is still and free country, and we don’t need to change the government to change ourselves.

Define freedom, please.

Mattsa
03-18-2011, 02:54 PM
There are 2 kinds of people in this world. Those who deny and reject actual truth,, and those who crave it.

I know which one I am, and I'm proud of that fact.

Good response

I am a UK citizen and I live in the most ingeniously contrived socialist state ever created.

I can assure you that what has been created is hell on earth. The sheeple don't realize it yet.............but they will.............because the money will run out and when that happens, civilization will cease.

When you remove self responsibility from the people, the final outcome will be savagery.

Mattsa
03-18-2011, 02:57 PM
Define freedom, please.

Simples

Freedom is running your own life and accepting the consequences of your failures, full liability if you like.

Limited liability is one of the worst ever legacies of the civil law system. It is hugely beneficial for corporations, a disaster for humanity.

Freedom 4 all
03-18-2011, 03:54 PM
Here's an open question: out of the top 10 things you could do to improve your life, how many of them involve changing legislation? Yes, it would be great to pay fewer taxes and not have to deal with so many stupid laws, but ultimately this is still and free country, and we don’t need to change the government to change ourselves.

Freedom is a relative term. America is a "free" country in the same way a midget over 3.5 feet is "tall."

CasualApathy
03-18-2011, 03:56 PM
Sometimes I also think that ignorance is bliss, but I comfort myself by knowing that I will be able to make better choices in life knowing what I've learned. But yea, I'd be tempted to take the blue pill to be honest... I know that I probably shouldn't say that, but it's just the honest truth. I Think I would have been more tempted 4-5 years ago though, since I've become more hopeful since then that things might actually turn out okay. And well, my personal situation has improved a lot also which helps :)

Deborah K
03-18-2011, 05:42 PM
Define freedom, please.

IMO, freedom is doing whatever you want as long as your actions don't hurt anyone else. To the degree that America is free by this definition, I would have to say probably more so than most other countries, but not as free as the sheeple believe it is - not anywhere close to that.

Xavi1990
03-18-2011, 06:00 PM
Here's a question that's been keeping me up at night lately. I'm not even sure how to word this, but bear with me. If you could forget everything you know about the evils of government, would you? Do you think it would be nice to feel a sense of thrill to pay taxes for all the "benefits" you get from the all-loving government, feel a sense of safety being protected by a benevolent police force with only your best interests at heart, and feel a sense of pride that we are spreading "freedom" in places like Iraq. You'd be completely wrong of course, but if it would be possible to feel this way, would that be a desirable thing? People are always telling me I'd have better "mental health" and be happier if I "take a better attitude towards the world" but I could no more pretend the above than I could pretend gravity makes shit go up, and I'm not even sure I would want to be like that if I could.

Yes, but an educated sheep. It's hard being around people who have no interest in current events, local issues or opinions on things that matter. It can be hard to socialize with the average person because there is not much to talk about except sports and who is getting fat and who you would have sex with.

I tried telling a girl in college on Monday that vaccines can be dangerous and I gave her cases of nefarious actions by drug companies like Bayer. Her response? "How do you know these things?" Making out I was some intellectual when I only read the news.

So yes, I'd rather be a rich, educated sheep, that doesn't care about politics.

Teaser Rate
03-18-2011, 08:10 PM
I think you're dismissing those of us for which this struggle has become deeply personal.

People who have been wrongly imprisoned by a runaway and out of control police state.

People who have their children taken from them and their families destroyed by an out of control court system.

People, like me, who have had, more than once, their livelihood taken from them by government decree.

People who have had sons, brothers, fathers, uncles killed or maimed in unjust, undeclared wars.

People who have lost their homes and everything they worked for when government has decided it wants their land.

People who have been shot and killed in midnight SWAT raids of the wrong house.

This isn't a academic debating society for people like me, and the millions of other Americans just like me who find themselves wronged in the ways I just mentioned and a million other ways as well.

What is frustrating is that it doesn't have to be that way, it could be turned around tomorrow, if only a vast majority of people would, in fact, "wake up".

But because the distractions and entertainment matrix of modern life is more important to them, they won't give a fuck about any of it...

Until it's happening to them.

I don’t mean to sound crass, but I’m pretty sure that if you were to take all the wrongfully convicted criminals, orphaned children, maimed soldiers and death civilians caused by bad government policy, that group wouldn’t make a significant number on a national scale. I’d be willing to bet that more lives are destroyed by alcoholism in any given year than by bad US government policy.

This is, of course not to belittle those who have legitimate grievances with the government; one injustice is one too many, and we’d all like to live in a fairer world; but creating it is not as easy as it looks. There are powerful forces holding up the political establishment and forcing change in a reckless manner will have unforeseen unintended consequences. There’s a reason why so many well-meaning revolutionaries turn into mass-murderers and despots, and it’s not because they were evil from the start.

Maybe I’m too cynical, but I tend to see the motivation that we have a duty to save others from bad government to be similar than the motivation that we have a duty to save others from poverty or drugs or capitalist greed, etc. It’s a way to make ourselves feel like we’re doing something about our own lives without the effort; activism is fun and it doesn’t require any real sacrifice.

Then again, I guess they could be coming to get me and I'm just blissfully unaware of it... (or I could just be a CIA informant trying to gather information to help bust a potential national security threat)


Define freedom, please.

Freedom is the absence of some force keeping you tied to something or someone, it cannot exist in a vacuum.

For the most part, we are free from government oppression. We are free to do almost anything we want, associate with whomever we want, say anything we want, believe anything we want, etc.


Freedom is a relative term. America is a "free" country in the same way a midget over 3.5 feet is "tall."

You need to travel abroad, here's anarcho-capitalist Penn Jillette on his perspective on American freedom after having traveled across the world.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF2iX2VG6e4

Anti Federalist
03-18-2011, 10:03 PM
I don’t mean to sound crass, but I’m pretty sure that if you were to take all the wrongfully convicted criminals, orphaned children, maimed soldiers and death civilians caused by bad government policy, that group wouldn’t make a significant number on a national scale. I’d be willing to bet that more lives are destroyed by alcoholism in any given year than by bad US government policy.

You won't get an argument from me, in fact, that was pretty much my point.

That those done wrong by government are a small minority and that the vast majority really does not care.

Even though that vast majority has it's rights restricted or assaulted on a daily basis, by spy cameras, known or unknown surveillance of their communications and location, the loss of 5th Amendment rights that happens every year on 15 April.

They either don't know, don't care, or rationalize it, "I'm not doing anything wrong, I've got nothing to hide".

dude58677
03-19-2011, 11:38 AM
I would say that I am happier knowing the truth and that we are individuals and if the rest of the population chooses to be stupid. As long as we can steer away from it, then we are ok. If we want to live our lives away from the government even if other people do not then we take advantage of every opportunity. As individuals we cannot control other people and only ourselves.

enoch150
03-19-2011, 12:15 PM
Freedom is the absence of some force keeping you tied to something or someone, it cannot exist in a vacuum.

For the most part, we are free from government oppression. We are free to do almost anything we want, associate with whomever we want, say anything we want, believe anything we want, etc.

No. Freedom means there is no authority over you, obligating you to do things or restricting other things you might do. Of course, to hold true to the ideal of freedom, you cannot have authority over others, either. For the most part, we are not free from government oppression. Even in the things I have not care to do, I still feel the government's hand upon the back of my neck.

I live in Connecticut. Cost of Government Day in 2010 was September 17th. That means I spend 70% of my time working as a slave for the f*&%ing government.

Yeah, sure, we have free speech - as long as we’re in a government designated Free Speech Zone.

And we can buy property, too. As long as we keep paying rent to the government on it. And if the government ever finds someone willing to pay a higher rent, it will claim the right of Lord of the Land (eminent domain) and it will give us a check for whatever amount the government determines the taxpayers ought to pay, at which time we will be evicted.

The concept of property ownership necessitates that the owner can do whatever he wishes with the property, as long as it doesn‘t harm anyone else. The government makes laws on drinking, smoking, marriage, drugs, prostitution, gambling, and everyone can see junk food coming a mile away. In other words, we don’t own our own bodies, the government does. Or, at least, it claims to, and will send goons with guns to prove it.

The right to defend ourselves is a basic inalienable right, which necessarily implies that the means to defend ourselves must be available. Except they aren’t, for many in this country. Many of us have to go begging permission from the government for the ‘right’ to own a gun, and that is often denied. Particularly in a state like mine where one can be classified as a felon for some of the victimless activities I listed in the previous paragraph.

This is to say nothing of the government’s new found power to restrict travel within 100 miles of the border, spy without warrants, indefinitely detain without trial, and even assassinate its own citizens.

Sure, we can try and fight all of these things through the ancient right of Jury Nullification, as long as we don’t tell anyone or we’ll be thrown out of court. The soap box and ballot box sure haven’t helped much.

Every time here someone say we’re free I can’t help but think of the quote attributed to Johan Wolfgang Von Goethe: “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. They feed them on falsehoods ‘til wrong looks like right in their eyes.”