No Reports of Looting in Japan After Disaster

[FrankRep]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/03/12/t1larg.sendai.queue.gi.jpg


Orderly disaster reaction in line with deep cultural roots (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/12/orderly-disaster-reaction-in-line-with-deep-cultural-roots/)


CNN
March 12th, 2011



The layer of human turmoil - looting and scuffles for food or services - that often comes in the wake of disaster seems noticeably absent in Japan.

“Looting simply does not take place in Japan. I’m not even sure if there’s a word for it that is as clear in its implications as when we hear ‘looting,’" said Gregory Pflugfelder, director of the Donald Keene Center of Japanese Culture at Columbia University.

Japanese have “a sense of being first and foremost responsible to the community,” he said.

To Merry White, an anthropology professor at Boston University who studies Japanese culture , the real question is why looting and disorder exist in American society. She attributes it largely to social alienation and class gaps.
...


Full Story:
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/12/orderly-disaster-reaction-in-line-with-deep-cultural-roots/

[QueenB4Liberty]

Japanese society is more moral than other societies.

[juleswin]

Its only 2 days after the disaster, not saying it would get worse after 4-5 days. But looting usually starts when theres food shortage but if the Japanese grocers decided to give away their foods instead of selling it to the highest bidders then theres not going to be any looting in a million years.

[sailingaway]

Of course not, this is JAPAN.

My Dad told me he was told by returning WWII GIs when he was a boy how in Japan people shared their most prized possession by placing it out on a wall, etc. for all who passed by to enjoy. The GI's didn't know what this was and thought if the stuff was sitting by the road it wasn't important to anyone and pilfered it, widely. Dad always felt the US was absolutely justified about Hiroshima, etc, because of Pearl Harbor, but he grew up completely ashamed of our army of occupation.

[kah13176]

I remember hearing something several years ago along the lines of Japan having the lowest number of shoplifting and robbery cases in the entire developed world. People from that country have a good sense of responsibility that shows through in their math and science performance, efficient labor force, and likely their notable longevity.

A larger portion of people from this country, on the other hand, tend to feel that they're "entitled" and "victims" and act accordingly by stealing, demanding welfare and government benefits, and general laziness.

[Tinnuhana]

It's the culture. If someone drops something, it may stay in the same spot for weeks since we figure someone will retrace their steps to find it. Local station showing people teaming up to make wooden sidewalks over large puddles, and schools serving for shelter. Oh, there's a woman with her shih tzu in her jacket. People are all lined up at water buffaloes (woater tanks) to get water. They are also giving gasoline where needed. The phone companies have been providing free service as people look for relatives. There have been a few stories about families reuniting tearfully.

[Vessol]

What else do you expect from one thousand plus years of feudalism?

As much as they can be merited at being an orderly society, Japanese society is also very much anti-individualist and puts the needs of the many always before the needs of the few.. There's a reason why Japan also has the highest suicide rate in the industrialized world.

Edit: At least they are not mass killing Koreans, like in 1923..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1923_Great_Kanto_earthquake#Post-quake_massacre_of_ethnic_minorities

[Maximus]

Doesn't surprise me at all. There is nothing wrong with thinking about others before thinking about yourself.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Japan to deploy 100,000 troops on quake aid

March 13, 2011

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/2011/03/13/japan-to-deploy-100000-troops-on-quake-aid/

[FrankRep]

Japan crisis 'worst since WWII'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12726589

No panic, no looting - life in a tsunami-hit Japanese city
http://www.sify.com/news/no-panic-no-looting-life-in-a-tsunami-hit-japanese-city-news-international-ldns4fgeicj.html

'No food or water, but Miyagi residents not panicking'
http://www.dailypioneer.com/324147/No-food-or-water-but-Miyagi-residents-not-panicking.html

Pretty amazing.

[Southron]

Edited for the hyper-sensitive race nannies on the forum just waiting to cry racist.

[BlackTerrel]

Perhaps some of it is due to the fact that Japan has a low percentage of minority ethnic groups. So-called "melting pot" countries seem to have more racial and ethnic strife.

Yep that's it :rolleyes:

[Zippyjuan]

Even when the traffic was frozen by the quake, people still waited for the light to change before they tried to cross a street- even with the cars not even moving and it would have been completely safe to do so.

[Vessol]

Even when the traffic was frozen by the quake, people still waited for the light to change before they tried to cross a street- even with the cars not even moving and it would have been completely safe to do so.

Like I said, a thousand years of feudalism that ended only in the past century has a huge effect on the mindset of people.

[Imaginos]

I remember hearing something several years ago along the lines of Japan having the lowest number of shoplifting and robbery cases in the entire developed world. People from that country have a good sense of responsibility that shows through in their math and science performance, efficient labor force, and likely their notable longevity.

A larger portion of people from this country, on the other hand, tend to feel that they're "entitled" and "victims" and act accordingly by stealing, demanding welfare and government benefits, and general laziness.
So true.
It is sad but true that Americans in general are the most spoiled people on the planet as of now.
Sense of entitledment ruined this country and will turn this country into toilet in the future unless we get a grip and turn back to liberty and prosperity.

[FrankRep]

even when the traffic was frozen by the quake, people still waited for the light to change before they tried to cross a street- even with the cars not even moving and it would have been completely safe to do so.


Source?



Like I said, a thousand years of feudalism that ended only in the past century has a huge effect on the mindset of people.

I'm calling B.S. on Zippyjuan's statement.

[Imaginos]

Perhaps some of it is due to the fact that Japan has a low percentage of minority ethnic groups. So-called "melting pot" countries seem to have more racial and ethnic strife.
Sure.
And having David Duke as the president will solve all our problems, right?
Seriously, don't bring Stormfront talking point into this forum since you are hindering Dr. Paul's chance in 2012.

[Southron]

Sure.
And having David Duke as the president will solve all our problems, right?
Seriously, don't bring Stormfront talking point into this forum since you are hindering Dr. Paul's chance in 2012.

You can ignore the fact that Japan is 99% ethnic Japanese, but to me it helps explain their social cohesion. It has nothing to do with David Duke or Stormfront. The world cannot be explained by economics alone, despite libertarian attempts to ignore social issues.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Japan is a society where you can put down a bag of groceries on the sidewalk, go away for an hour and come back to find it untouched.

-t

[BlackTerrel]

You can ignore the fact that Japan is 99% ethnic Japanese, but to me it helps explain their social cohesion. It has nothing to do with David Duke or Stormfront. The world cannot be explained by economics alone, despite libertarian attempts to ignore social issues.

Is there no rioting, looting, or crime in white parts of the US?

[00_Pete]

You can ignore the fact that Japan is 99% ethnic Japanese, but to me it helps explain their social cohesion. It has nothing to do with David Duke or Stormfront. The world cannot be explained by economics alone, despite libertarian attempts to ignore social issues.

Ethnic and, above all, cultural cohesion (one could say this 2 often walk hand-in-hand) play a major role no doubt. This and the fact that Japanese society always had to live with natural disasters (if this was bad imagine the one that happened 140 years ago).

No racism here, in fact 1 Malcolm X is worth 1 trillion David Duke´s.

[Pericles]

Is there no rioting, looting, or crime in white parts of the US?

Yes, but they accomplish it using lawyers, so it appears less unseemly.

[SanjaySingh]

Is there no rioting, looting, or crime in white parts of the US?

Much less compared to more "Diverse" parts of America.

[00_Pete]

So true.
It is sad but true that Americans in general are the most spoiled people on the planet as of now.
Sense of entitledment ruined this country and will turn this country into toilet in the future unless we get a grip and turn back to liberty and prosperity.

A guy with the Aleister Crowley saying talking about liberty?!? AHAHAHAH!!

Dude you keep jumping from one disaster to the other.

Nietzsche was a psychotic, cultural subverter, a filthy woman-hating masculine-homosexual PEDERAST at the service of the New World Order. The spanish anarchist you had there was part of yet another movement created by the New World Order...and now Crowley. You are hysterical dude!

Crowley was a cultural subverter, a pederast that OPENLY encouraged raping little boys in his whole "sex magik" crap in order to convert them to homosexuality, he was a member of the british intelligence and he even played a role in the Lusitania false flag attack and he also helped to found many "mini Skull and Bones" types of secret societies were the New World Order recruit many of their agents. He also played a major role in the commie-hippie movement (Beatles has him on the cover of one of their Albuns) and i could go on and on...

Really, stop trying to be "alternative" and "counter-culture" and "intellectual" and "underground" and "different" and all that crap. It makes you worship PEDERASTS at the service of the New World Order. :)

That is so lame dude...hihihihi...

[Southron]

Is there no rioting, looting, or crime in white parts of the US?

Don’t try race-baiting me. I never mentioned white people.

[Pete Kay]

Yep, this seems to be the part that many libertarians willfully overlook. Culture matters. People matter. I can never understand how many here buy into the whole Leftist thinking of cultural and moral relativity. Libertarianism only works if the people are good and moral.

[00_Pete]

Yep, this seems to be the part that many libertarians willfully overlook. Culture matters. People matter. I can never understand how many here buy into the whole Leftist thinking of cultural and moral relativity. Libertarianism only works if the people are good and moral.

Yep. And that is the main obstacle to libertarianism really. Also one of the reasons of my tyrade against "Imaginos" and his Aleister Crowley CRAP.

Rothbard and von Mises were very "conservative" on all cultural aspects. Rothbard called this Libertarians the "Modals".

KULTURKAMPF! http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch53.html

[Anti Federalist]

Both Vessol and Rifleman are correct.

That said, I'd just as soon risk the crime or social upheaval, than trade it all for an authoritarian quasi-police state like Japan.

Then again, I realize the absurdity of that statement as soon as I typed it.

We're just as authoritarian and "police statish" as Japan.


What else do you expect from one thousand plus years of feudalism?

As much as they can be merited at being an orderly society, Japanese society is also very much anti-individualist and puts the needs of the many always before the needs of the few.. There's a reason why Japan also has the highest suicide rate in the industrialized world.

Edit: At least they are not mass killing Koreans, like in 1923..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1923_Great_Kanto_earthquake#Post-quake_massacre_of_ethnic_minorities


You can ignore the fact that Japan is 99% ethnic Japanese, but to me it helps explain their social cohesion. It has nothing to do with David Duke or Stormfront. The world cannot be explained by economics alone, despite libertarian attempts to ignore social issues.

[bruce leeroy]

Firstly, I would like to say some are being a bit unfair to "rifleman" because he is correct in saying that having many different cultural, racial, and religious groups in proximity to each other can and does at times create problems.
the second thing I would like to point out is that inner-city america is NOT "boyz in the hood" or a Tupac video. Im from a section of dallas that is90% black/hispanic, and while south oak cliff does have crime, drugs, etc.............most people that stay there are not gonna rob you, rape you, "buss a cap in yo azz" or throw gang signs at you........and that INCLUDES the criminal element. yes, in neighborhoods like the cliff you got gangbangers, crackheads and sex offenders, but you also got dishwashers, truck drivers, mechanics, teachers, preachers, and students too.

[Vessol]

Firstly, I would like to say some are being a bit unfair to "rifleman" because he is correct in saying that having many different cultural, racial, and religious groups in proximity to each other can and does at times create problems.
the second thing I would like to point out is that inner-city america is NOT "boyz in the hood" or a Tupac video. Im from a section of dallas that is90% black/hispanic, and while south oak cliff does have crime, drugs, etc.............most people that stay there are not gonna rob you, rape you, "buss a cap in yo azz" or throw gang signs at you........and that INCLUDES the criminal element. yes, in neighborhoods like the cliff you got gangbangers, crackheads and sex offenders, but you also got dishwashers, truck drivers, mechanics, teachers, preachers, and students too.

Shh, let the middle-class suburbanite white nationalists who seem to still try to sneak onto this forum, think that everything is relative the melatonin in your skin.

[BlackTerrel]

Much less compared to more "Diverse" parts of America. State after State, City after City proves that Whites and North East Asians have lowest crime rates, and Black, Brown and South East Asians have highest crime rates.

95% and over White Towns and cities have almost negligible crime rates. You can leave your door unlocked in almost All 95%+ white cities in Middle American States like Utah, Idaho, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Nebraska, Kentucky etc etc and the result will be like Japan.

You leave your door open in Non-White dominated parts of "Diverse" portions of Counties and most likely your place will be robbed.

I know I know already. You've been making the same point in 19 of your 25 posts.


Political correctness means anyone who talks reality is David Duke and all who suffer under the heel of Non_White criminality are to be applauded for their "tolerance".

It is really unfortunate what has happened to America under the garb of Multicultural tolerance.

Ok David.

[100DollarBarrelofOil]

Yep. And that is the main obstacle to libertarianism really. Also one of the reasons of my tyrade against "Imaginos" and his Aleister Crowley CRAP.

Rothbard and von Mises were very "conservative" on all cultural aspects. Rothbard called this Libertarians the "Modals".

KULTURKAMPF! http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch53.html

So, what then? Pay lip service to limited government while calling for cultural and ethnic conformity, things that will (in this country, at least) invariably lead to more state interference in the lives of individuals? You sure you're on the right forum?

[juleswin]

Anyone else found it odd for a post complementing the Japanese for not rioting was started. I know you are trying to draw a comparison with the New Orleans incident but at least give them a few more days since it took the New Orleanians a 3-4 days of no govt assistant and supervision to start looting.

Don't get me wrong, I not in anyway trying to compare the more refined cultured, more educated, more prosperous, more prepared and well mannered Japanese to our American counter parts but the Japanese govt have stepped up to the plate better that the govt of new Orleans did and the shock and potential death from a still developing nuclear disaster kinda makes it hard to loot anything. Anyway, I think what am trying to say before I started rambling is that there are a lot more variables in play that just the culture 99% ethnic Japanese make up of the society because when push comes to shove, even the most culture of vultures tend to resort to their innate animal instincts

[100DollarBarrelofOil]

Nah, actually I think they're right, it's all because 99% of the country's population is Japanese. That has to be it.

Edit: mods I think you can close this thread now we have figured out why there are no reports of looting in japan after disaster.

[One Last Battle!]

Anyone else found it odd for a post complementing the Japanese for not rioting was started. I know you are trying to draw a comparison with the New Orleans incident but at least give them a few more days since it took the New Orleanians a 3-4 days of no govt assistant and supervision to start looting.

Don't get me wrong, I not in anyway trying to compare the more refined cultured, more educated, more prosperous, more prepared and well mannered Japanese to our American counter parts but the Japanese govt have stepped up to the plate better that the govt of new Orleans did and the shock and potential death from a still developing nuclear disaster kinda makes it hard to loot anything. Anyway, I think what am trying to say before I started rambling is that there are a lot more variables in play that just the culture 99% ethnic Japanese make up of the society because when push comes to shove, even the most culture of vultures tend to resort to their innate animal instincts

Indeed. Wait a week or so. If there is STILL no looting, then we can get back to this.

[awake]

What about the billions in inflated currency that the Japanese government is printing up in light of this disaster? This is systemic looting on a massive scale.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

This thread is hilarious!

"There is no looting because 99% of Japan is pure Japanese."

ROFL

Some people here give the liberty movement a real bad name. Makes it hard for people like me to constantly defend folks like Ron Paul when people call him and liberty lovers racist.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/03/12/t1larg.sendai.queue.gi.jpg




What's funny about that picture is when Hurricane Gustav hit here in Baton Rouge, LA. I went to the corner store (which was in a majority black neighborhood) to see if I can get some snacks. The power was out for a good week in the whole city. Well, at this corner store, there was a line very similar to this. The owner of the corner store had it orderly and was using good old pen and paper to calculate costs. People were gracious and happy to get what they need. But you never hear about that on the news.

Im from New Orleans, and I was lucky enough to get outta there with my life. Something I would like to point is, 80% of the population in New Orleans had pretty much left before the Hurricane, the decent people, the people with the sense to get out of the way, the people with the means to leave, were gone. What was left? The drug attics, the homeless, the thugs, the inmates, the forgotten and the hopeless elderly, and the NOPD thugs to police them all.

[Jack Bauer]

Its rather sad that NOT looting is considered newsworthy.

[One Last Battle!]

What's funny about that picture is when Hurricane Gustav hit here in Baton Rouge, LA. I went to the corner store (which was in a majority black neighborhood) to see if I can get some snacks. The power was out for a good week in the whole city. Well, at this corner store, there was a line very similar to this. The owner of the corner store had it orderly and was using good old pen and paper to calculate costs. People were gracious and happy to get what they need. But you never hear about that on the news.

Im from New Orleans, and I was lucky enough to get outta there with my life. Something I would like to point is, 80% of the population in New Orleans had pretty much left before the Hurricane, the decent people, the people with the sense to get out of the way, the people with the means to leave, were gone. What was left? The drug attics, the homeless, the thugs, the inmates, the forgotten and the hopeless elderly, and the NOPD thugs to police them all.

Good explanation.


What about the billions in inflated currency that the Japanese government is printing up in light of this disaster? This is systemic looting on a massive scale.

That is going to bite them in the ass shortly. Looks like all of the stored up savings are running out, and all the inevitable inflation is coming out in grand fashion. Poor Japan. Plus, when Japan goes down, Europe won't have anyone to prop up its poor lending. Poor Europe. Then China, with one of its best importers out of business, will lose its illusionary growth and will flop. Poor China. Then the US is going to crash without the Chinese or Japanese to buy bonds. Poor US.

Actually, I think this could spiral out and really screw everyone over. Only time will tell, though.

[Danke]

Good explanation.

Not really. Why haven't all the Japanese "drug attics, the homeless, the thugs, the inmates, the forgotten and the hopeless elderly" looted?

Remember the Korean shop owners, etc. defending against looters during the riots in L.A.? Hard to imagine that happening in Japan, having lived there and studied their culture.

[One Last Battle!]

Not really. Why haven't all the Japanese "drug attics, the homeless, the thugs, the inmates, the forgotten and the hopeless elderly" looted?

Remember the Korean shop owners, etc. defending against looters during the riots in L.A.? Hard to imagine that happening in Japan, having lived there and studied their culture.

Only been a couple days so far. Wait a week, see how things are then.

[juleswin]

Its only newsworthy to a couple of bozos trying to make a racial point. At first I thought it was exceptional that they haven't been any looting but after a day thinking about it, I started seeing holes in the theory. For one, not because the community is 99% ethic Japanese means that they are culturally, ethnically similar. Japanese people have their own sub groups sub cultures which can be very distinct and even conflicting with other Japanese culture and ethic group but we as outsiders cannot visualize it.

Also the ratio of law abiding, productive citizen can radically change the behaviour of the society when they are out numbered by the dependent, less affluent group. The case in Japan, there's no evidence that the tsunami killed or drove off more of the former group than the latter.

Anyway, more time and more examination needs to be conducted before jumping into any conclusions. These socioculturalist theories strikes me as what you see at supremacist websites not a liberty website

Sayonara my liberty friends

[ChaosControl]

Focus on the community instead of the individual and people will actually have some respect for other people's things and society values.
The homogeneous culture helps too, but it is more family/society as opposed to individual focus element of culture that contributes most to this.
Also to note that crime there is usually organized crime and thus less likely to be reported.

There is the good and the bad.

[Danke]

Only been a couple days so far. Wait a week, see how things are then.

Even as someone who doesn't blend in, I never felt concern for my safety anywhere I went day or night in Japan. I can't even say that about my home town here in American, let alone most big cities.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Not really. Why haven't all the Japanese "drug attics, the homeless, the thugs, the inmates, the forgotten and the hopeless elderly" looted?

Remember the Korean shop owners, etc. defending against looters during the riots in L.A.? Hard to imagine that happening in Japan, having lived there and studied their culture.

I don't know. It's a different society. Doesn't mean it's a better society just different. And you speak as if the entire country of Japan is in ruins. If this happened in Tokyo I'm sure there would be all kinds of crime going on. And who says there isn't any crime going on. If not, good for them. But if you want to blame their race or skin pigment as the reason they are not looting, you need psychological help. There are many other factors that come into the equation like respect for ones property, your propensity to share, your socio-economic status, etc. Japanese people are very anti-individualists. That's how their culture is and has been for a long long time.

There are places in America just as safe. I can show you my old neighborhood in Louisiana (majority black neighborhood) that was very very safe. Lots of night we didn't lock our door, every one look out for one another and respected each other's property. It has nothing to do with the pigment of one's skin but the content of their character.

[YumYum]

Much less compared to more "Diverse" parts of America. State after State, City after City proves that Whites and North East Asians have lowest crime rates, and Black, Brown and South East Asians have highest crime rates.

95% and over White Towns and cities have almost negligible crime rates. You can leave your door unlocked in almost All 95%+ white cities in Middle American States like Utah, Idaho, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Nebraska, Kentucky etc etc and the result will be like Japan.

You leave your door open in Non-White dominated parts of "Diverse" portions of Counties and most likely your place will be robbed.

Political correctness means anyone who talks reality is David Duke and all who suffer under the heel of Non_White criminality are to be applauded for their "tolerance".

It is really unfortunate what has happened to America under the garb of Multicultural tolerance.

That is not entirely true. It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with people's economic status. I live in an area that is 99% white and my place has been robbed 3 times by meth addicts who were white. These white meth heads will steal your riding lawn mower right in front of you in broad daylight. The reason people could leave their doors unlocked in the states you mentioned is because those areas have little to no gun laws and you can shoot somebody who is trespassing and trying to steal your belongings, and get away with it. You can't here in MO. Here, you can only shoot somebody if your life is endangered, even if they are robbing you blind.

[Danke]

This has to be one of the most bizzard posts I've read as a response. Talk about putting words in one's mouth and twisting what I wrote:


I don't know. It's a different society. Doesn't mean it's a better society just different. And you speak as if the entire country of Japan is in ruins. If this happened in Tokyo I'm sure there would be all kinds of crime going on. And who says there isn't any crime going on. If not, good for them. But if you want to blame their race or skin pigment as the reason they are not looting, you need psychological help. There are many other factors that come into the equation like respect for ones property, your propensity to share, your socio-economic status, etc. Japanese people are very anti-individualists. That's how their culture is and has been for a long long time.


I don't know. It's a different society. Doesn't mean it's a better society just different. And I didn't say it was better or worse as a society. We are talking specifically about looting and street crime.


And you speak as if the entire country of Japan is in ruins.

How did you get that out of what I posted?


If this happened in Tokyo I'm sure there would be all kinds of crime going on. All Kinds? Like the topic at hand, looting? I doubt it.


But if you want to blame their race or skin pigment as the reason they are not looting, you need psychological help.

That makes no sense. I'm not blaming anyone for not looting. I have not brought in their "skin pigment" nor the race card that you seem so apt to do here. As far as "psychological help," you may want to look in the mirror.

[Fredom101]

Japanese society is more moral than other societies.

Japan also has the highest percentage of atheists of any country. Coincidence?

[Jack Bauer]

Japan also has the highest percentage of atheists of any country. Coincidence?

I have seen people argue that morality is derived from religion.

I would like to think we derive our morality from something better than religion.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

This has to be one of the most bizzard posts I've read as a response. Talk about putting words in one's mouth and twisting what I wrote:



And I didn't say it was better or worse as a society. We are talking specifically about looting and street crime.



How did you get that out of what I posted?

All Kinds? Like the topic at hand, looting? I doubt it.



That makes no sense. I'm not blaming anyone for not looting. I have not brought in their "skin pigment" nor the race card that you seem so apt to do here. As far as "psychological help," you may want to look in the mirror.

Im sorry, but my responses were aimed at some of the other posters, not u specifically.

[Fredom101]

I have seen people argue that morality is derived from religion.

I would like to think we derive our morality from something better than religion.

Me too. :)
But, "better" will be tough to define.
For me it simply comes down to trusting in reality, as opposed to belief in things that are not available to the senses. Nathaniel Branden has a book called "The Art of Living Consciously" that is an amazing read, and explains this idea perfectly, and why one is always better off aligning with reality.

[Jack Bauer]

Me too. :)
But, "better" will be tough to define.
For me it simply comes down to trusting in reality, as opposed to belief in things that are not available to the senses. Nathaniel Branden has a book called "The Art of Living Consciously" that is an amazing read, and explains this idea perfectly, and why one is always better off aligning with reality.

I think it comes from our Darwinian history. When we lived in smaller bands and tribes with people who were essential for our survival and who we would come across through most of our lives - that's where most of be good to others, don't steal, do unto others as you'd want them to do with you, etc. come from.

[ChaosControl]

I have seen people argue that morality is derived from religion.

I would like to think we derive our morality from something better than religion.

What is morality? Is it something constant or is it something that society decides? If it is the latter it is changing and in a way meaningless.
If it is constant, what determines it?

Now I am not religious, but I believe in a constant absolute morality. But I cannot really answer what it comes from. I don't think it comes from religion, I think religion is just one way people can try and understand morality. For me I get morality from my own intuition, what I feel and believe is right and wrong. We have different moralities since we interpret it different since we have different methods for interpreting it. Some people with religion, some with logic, some with intuition. Then we also have people who don't care about it at all. Since religion is only a tool and not a source, it makes perfect sense societies with less religious can still be as moral as those with it.

But what is "better than religion" or what is worse than it? What would be something that is better to derive morality from?

[Jack Bauer]

What is morality? Is it something constant or is it something that society decides? If it is the latter it is changing and in a way meaningless.
If it is constant, what determines it?

Now I am not religious, but I believe in a constant absolute morality. But I cannot really answer what it comes from. I don't think it comes from religion, I think religion is just one way people can try and understand morality. For me I get morality from my own intuition, what I feel and believe is right and wrong. We have different moralities since we interpret it different since we have different methods for interpreting it. Some people with religion, some with logic, some with intuition. Then we also have people who don't care about it at all. Since religion is only a tool and not a source, it makes perfect sense societies with less religious can still be as moral as those with it.

But what is "better than religion" or what is worse than it? What would be something that is better to derive morality from?

Your "intuition" is defined by your evolutionary history.

[SWATH]

In other news there are no reports of homosexuals in Iran.

[pcosmar]

No Reports =/= Didn't happen.

I suspect there are far more important issues than petty thefts.

[specsaregood]

There are places in America just as safe. I can show you my old neighborhood in Louisiana (majority black neighborhood) that was very very safe. Lots of night we didn't lock our door, every one look out for one another and respected each other's property. It has nothing to do with the pigment of one's skin but the content of their character.

As I look out my window, there is a razor scooter laying on the sidewalk. It was left there by a young kid that lives a few houses up the street about 4 days ago. It'll still be there when he comes back to play with again eventually.

[juleswin]

As I look out my window, there is a razor scooter laying on the sidewalk. It was left there by a young kid that lives a few houses up the street about 4 days ago. It'll still be there when he comes back to play with again eventually.

I agree with your overall point but what happens if that cumbersome, hard to shift razor scooter was a wallet filled with $100 notes? That my friend is the true test

[FrankRep]

Why is there no looting in Japan? (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100079703/why-is-there-no-looting-in-japan/)


Telegraph UK
March 14th, 2011



And solidarity seems especially strong in Japan itself. Perhaps even more impressive than Japan’s technological power is its social strength, with supermarkets cutting prices and vending machine owners giving out free drinks as people work together to survive. Most noticeably of all, there has been no looting, and I’m not the only one curious about this (http://www.google.co.uk/search?um=1&hl=en&biw=1472&bih=634&q=why%20no%20looting%20japan&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw).

This is quite unusual among human cultures, and it’s unlikely it would be the case in Britain. During the 2007 floods in the West Country (http://ukcommentators.blogspot.com/2011/03/dont-these-reactors-have-control-rods.html) abandoned cars were broken into and free packs of bottled water were stolen. There was looting in Chile after the earthquake last year – so much so that troops were sent in; in New Orleans, Hurricane Katrina saw looting on a shocking scale.

Why do some cultures react to disaster by reverting to everyone for himself, but others – especially the Japanese – display altruism even in adversity?

[Justin D]

I agree with your overall point but what happens if that cumbersome, hard to shift razor scooter was a wallet filled with $100 notes? That my friend is the true test


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oL1Oc8kX5c&feature=related
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oL1Oc8kX5c&feature=related)

[ChaosControl]

Your "intuition" is defined by your evolutionary history.

What is my "evolutionary history"?

[amy31416]

I went to Austria years ago, and it seemed similar--they sold newspapers by setting them out with an open cup to collect the money. Vienna was absolutely clean, and everyone we ran into was very friendly and helpful--I don't think Japan's the only place where this would be the case.

My own neighborhood, as much as I bitch about the Gladys Kravitz-esque gossipy woman next-door, would probably be the same in a disaster.

[Jack Bauer]

What is my "evolutionary history"?

Whatever was the "evolutionary experience" of you, your parents, their parents, their parents' parents and so on that has been embedded in your genes.

[ChaosControl]

Whatever was the "evolutionary experience" of you, your parents, their parents, their parents' parents and so on that has been embedded in your genes.

I suppose you can look at it that way if you want, but that certainly makes things feel predefined.

[SanjaySingh]

That is not entirely true. It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with people's economic status. I live in an area that is 99% white and my place has been robbed 3 times by meth addicts who were white. These white meth heads will steal your riding lawn mower right in front of you in broad daylight. The reason people could leave their doors unlocked in the states you mentioned is because those areas have little to no gun laws and you can shoot somebody who is trespassing and trying to steal your belongings, and get away with it. You can't here in MO. Here, you can only shoot somebody if your life is endangered, even if they are robbing you blind.

That is a thoughtful reply. At least your post is on topic of culture and race and not virulently anti-white.

[SanjaySingh]

Why is there no looting in Japan? (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100079703/why-is-there-no-looting-in-japan/)


Telegraph UK
March 14th, 2011



And solidarity seems especially strong in Japan itself. Perhaps even more impressive than Japan’s technological power is its social strength, with supermarkets cutting prices and vending machine owners giving out free drinks as people work together to survive. Most noticeably of all, there has been no looting, and I’m not the only one curious about this (http://www.google.co.uk/search?um=1&hl=en&biw=1472&bih=634&q=why%20no%20looting%20japan&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw).

This is quite unusual among human cultures, and it’s unlikely it would be the case in Britain. During the 2007 floods in the West Country (http://ukcommentators.blogspot.com/2011/03/dont-these-reactors-have-control-rods.html) abandoned cars were broken into and free packs of bottled water were stolen. There was looting in Chile after the earthquake last year – so much so that troops were sent in; in New Orleans, Hurricane Katrina saw looting on a shocking scale.

Why do some cultures react to disaster by reverting to everyone for himself, but others – especially the Japanese – display altruism even in adversity?

Non Japanese are only 1% in Japan,

[LibertyEagle]

I have seen people argue that morality is derived from religion.

I would like to think we derive our morality from something better than religion.

Better?

Jesus gave us a set of moral standards to follow. Things like not coveting what your neighbor has, not murdering, etc.

[specsaregood]

Better?

Jesus gave us a set of moral standards to follow. Things like not coveting what your neighbor has, not murdering, etc.

I thought those predated Jesus? I thought God gave them to Charlton Heston on Mt. Sinai.

[Jack Bauer]

Better?

Jesus gave us a set of moral standards to follow. Things like not coveting what your neighbor has, not murdering, etc.

Facepalm.

Sure, Jesus and Charlton Heston gave us a set of standards to follow because clearly before them such notions were not existing in any part of the world. :rolleyes:

[YumYum]

That is a thoughtful reply. At least your post is on topic of culture and race and not virulently anti-white like MelissaWV. Meth addiction and drugs are a huge problem because Whites have been hit disproportionately hard by so called "Free Trade" and Fiat Currency since 1971. Tens of Millions of white families have lost middle class status and respectability as Millions of manufacturing Jobs have been shipped overseas.

During boom and bust cycles blacks and browns see their fortunes ebb and flow, but the long term secular decline since 1971 has hit whites the most.

You make a valid point, because when times are tough relief programs are more difficult for whites to obtain. Where I live, Hispanics get free medical from government sponsored clinics, while low income whites have to pay full price for a visit. I hate racism, but I hate reverse discrimination just as much. It divides people and causes resentments.

[RideTheDirt]

OMGWTFBBQ nobody looting wtf muzt be jeanz or sumthin!!11

sad world we live in

[doodle]

Could this be due to their sound religious outlook and grounding? Budhist or Charistians there seem pretty mild mannered, very polite and peaceful overall compared US population in general. Version of Christianity practiced in the US is not same as in other nations.

[Imaginos]

A guy with the Aleister Crowley saying talking about liberty?!? AHAHAHAH!!

Dude you keep jumping from one disaster to the other.

Nietzsche was a psychotic, cultural subverter, a filthy woman-hating masculine-homosexual PEDERAST at the service of the New World Order. The spanish anarchist you had there was part of yet another movement created by the New World Order...and now Crowley. You are hysterical dude!

Crowley was a cultural subverter, a pederast that OPENLY encouraged raping little boys in his whole "sex magik" crap in order to convert them to homosexuality, he was a member of the british intelligence and he even played a role in the Lusitania false flag attack and he also helped to found many "mini Skull and Bones" types of secret societies were the New World Order recruit many of their agents. He also played a major role in the commie-hippie movement (Beatles has him on the cover of one of their Albuns) and i could go on and on...

Really, stop trying to be "alternative" and "counter-culture" and "intellectual" and "underground" and "different" and all that crap. It makes you worship PEDERASTS at the service of the New World Order. :)

That is so lame dude...hihihihi...

Thank you.
You have just proved the point that Dr. Paul made recently that when your critics call you names, that means they are losing argument.
Please keep bashing me with more name calling.
You just made my day.

[00_Pete]

Thank you.
You have just proved the point that Dr. Paul made recently that when your critics call you names, that means they are losing argument.
Please keep bashing me with more name calling.
You just made my day.

Dude. Crowley OPENLY encouraged his followers to practice homosexual pedophilia as part of his "sex magik" crap! How f*cked up is that?

Its so easy to manipulate people that want to be different.

[susano]

Its only 2 days after the disaster, not saying it would get worse after 4-5 days. But looting usually starts when theres food shortage but if the Japanese grocers decided to give away their foods instead of selling it to the highest bidders then theres not going to be any looting in a million years.

Not with ghetto dwellers. I lived in Los Angeles during the riots. Looting starts with the first opportunity.

[00_Pete]

Not with ghetto dwellers. I lived in Los Angeles during the riots. Looting starts with the first opportunity.

Q: What is a ghetto dweller looting a Korean shop during a major riot?
A: A dead one!

:D uhuhuhuhuhuhAHAHAHAHAHAHhihihihihihihi...i must stop :D

[susano]

It's the culture. If someone drops something, it may stay in the same spot for weeks since we figure someone will retrace their steps to find it. Local station showing people teaming up to make wooden sidewalks over large puddles, and schools serving for shelter. Oh, there's a woman with her shih tzu in her jacket. People are all lined up at water buffaloes (woater tanks) to get water. They are also giving gasoline where needed. The phone companies have been providing free service as people look for relatives. There have been a few stories about families reuniting tearfully.

I see you are in Japan (Okinawa) and New Hampshire. Are you Japanese?

I am absolutely humbled by the incredible Japanese people. My heart breaks for them. I spent several hours using Google maps street view to "drive around" the areas destroyed. It was the rural part near Sendai and every house had a garden and most had greenhouses. It looked so idyllic. I kept looking at it and wishing that was how we lived, wishing we had that culture that is both in the modern era with a strong connection to the land. Everything looked like it had been tended with the utmost care for such a very long time. So, so much was lost :(

[susano]

What else do you expect from one thousand plus years of feudalism?

As much as they can be merited at being an orderly society, Japanese society is also very much anti-individualist and puts the needs of the many always before the needs of the few.. There's a reason why Japan also has the highest suicide rate in the industrialized world.

Edit: At least they are not mass killing Koreans, like in 1923..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1923_Great_Kanto_earthquake#Post-quake_massacre_of_ethnic_minorities

God, what a ghastly account of that earthquake and the subsequent attacks. The Japanese certainly had their brutal history and not that long ago, too. Their whaling and dolphin slaughter aren't exemplary of higher consciousness, either. That said, that is a segment of Japanese society and, like all people, they are not a hive.

I don't know much about feudalism but I suppose your point is that they were beaten down and remain in check, to this day, from that history. I really don't think that's it. A history of slavery didn't make people of African descent more civil.

[susano]

Edited for the hyper-sensitive race nannies on the forum just waiting to cry racist.

Well, I'm not afraid of speaking my mind.

One of the reasons that Japan is like it is, imo, is because it's a homogeneous society. Common history, language, values, and culture.

[YumYum]

God, what a ghastly account of that earthquake and the subsequent attacks. The Japanese certainly had their brutal history and not that long ago, too. Their whaling and dolphin slaughter aren't exemplary of higher consciousness, either. That said, that is a segment of Japanese society and, like all people, they are not a hive.

I don't know much about feudalism but I suppose your point is that they were beaten down and remain in check, to this day, from that history. I really don't think that's it. A history of slavery didn't make people of African descent more civil.

I like Vessol a lot, but I didn't quite understand the context of his post. I don't believe him to be a racist; no, in fact just the opposite.

[susano]

So, what then? Pay lip service to limited government while calling for cultural and ethnic conformity, things that will (in this country, at least) invariably lead to more state interference in the lives of individuals? You sure you're on the right forum?

Actually, people with things in common, like culture, values, religious or spiritual beliefs and, yes, race, self segregate. It was government that interfered with that. Self segregation is not some kind of racist supremacy, either. People can segregate and still respect and enjoy each other.

[susano]

What about the billions in inflated currency that the Japanese government is printing up in light of this disaster? This is systemic looting on a massive scale.

How many people understand banking and fiat money? Not very damn many. You think the average Japanese person has a Ron Paul grasp of finance and economics? That's a cheap shot, imo. Even our founders allowed for borrowing money. The Japanese are having to borrow from THEIR future for THEMSELVES. They are in a serious and life threatening crisis. They don't have too many options right now and, I'm sure, the person whose family, home and land was just washed out to sea isn't thinking about monetary policy.

Now, if you want to talk about looting, that's a different "ethnic" group. Maybe the tribe will cut the Japs some slack - when hell freezes over.

[susano]

I don't know. It's a different society. Doesn't mean it's a better society just different. And you speak as if the entire country of Japan is in ruins. If this happened in Tokyo I'm sure there would be all kinds of crime going on. And who says there isn't any crime going on. If not, good for them. But if you want to blame their race or skin pigment as the reason they are not looting, you need psychological help. There are many other factors that come into the equation like respect for ones property, your propensity to share, your socio-economic status, etc. Japanese people are very anti-individualists. That's how their culture is and has been for a long long time.

There are places in America just as safe. I can show you my old neighborhood in Louisiana (majority black neighborhood) that was very very safe. Lots of night we didn't lock our door, every one look out for one another and respected each other's property. It has nothing to do with the pigment of one's skin but the content of their character.


It's CULTURE AND VALUES

[susano]

Japan also has the highest percentage of atheists of any country. Coincidence?

Link?

I know they have a lot of Buddhists and believe in karma. THAT may be a factor in shaping their character and choices.

[susano]

I went to Austria years ago, and it seemed similar--they sold newspapers by setting them out with an open cup to collect the money. Vienna was absolutely clean, and everyone we ran into was very friendly and helpful--I don't think Japan's the only place where this would be the case.

My own neighborhood, as much as I bitch about the Gladys Kravitz-esque gossipy woman next-door, would probably be the same in a disaster.

Pre Muslim, Scandinavia had that reputation as well. It was famous for being safe and friendly. Multiculturalism has destroyed that.

[susano]

I like Vessol a lot, but I didn't quite understand the context of his post. I don't believe him to be a racist; no, in fact just the opposite.

I didn't take his comment as racist. I don't think any of the comments here are.

[SanjaySingh]

The welfare state is designed to loot the whites, .

[BlackTerrel]

God, what a ghastly account of that earthquake and the subsequent attacks. The Japanese certainly had their brutal history and not that long ago, too. Their whaling and dolphin slaughter aren't exemplary of higher consciousness, either. That said, that is a segment of Japanese society and, like all people, they are not a hive.

I don't know much about feudalism but I suppose your point is that they were beaten down and remain in check, to this day, from that history. I really don't think that's it. A history of slavery didn't make people of African descent more civil.

Yeah who would have though that whipping people and not allowing them to learn how to read wouldn't "tame" them. Maybe we enslave them for another century and they'll start behaving - you are on to something.

[BlackTerrel]

The welfare state is designed to loot the whites, dispossess them and transfer all their resources to feed brown/black/asian groups. It is a brilliantly subversive strategy designed by International Marxists in Washington DC, New York, Los Angeles

Awwwww poor white people giving all us darkies all their money...

But you should be profiting too right "Sanjay"?

[susano]

Yeah who would have though that whipping people and not allowing them to learn how to read wouldn't "tame" them. Maybe we enslave them for another century and they'll start behaving - you are on to something.


Uh, I'm not the one who said they are how they are because of a history of feudalism.

[BlackTerrel]

Uh, I'm not the one who said they are how they are because of a history of feudalism.

Neither did I.

[00_Pete]

Japanese are all Samurai warriors with the word "HONOR" tattoed in their arms!
They like cartoons a lot, they commit suicide a lot, they make nice small cars, they love small things, they have insane sexual practices and tastes, they have an insect-like collective subconscious and they love electronic things.

[susano]

Japanese are all Samurai warriors with the word "HONOR" tattoed in their arms!
They like cartoons a lot, they commit suicide a lot, they make nice small cars, they love small things, they have insane sexual practices and tastes, they have an insect-like collective subconscious and they love electronic things.

And all the girls love Hello Kitty!

[susano]

Neither did I.

Alright. Then we both agree that a history of being serfs or slaves or whatever doesn't account for who and what future generations become. IOW, behavior and values are always a choice.

[doodle]

Could it be because some of our moderate Christians are parying for Japan?

Courtesy of another poster.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UmotTE-VlY




Hence no looting.

[juleswin]

Could it be because some of our moderate Christians are parying for Japan?

Courtesy of another poster.
is that Frankrep in the video?

[idirtify]

Originally Posted by Fredom101
Japan also has the highest percentage of atheists of any country. Coincidence?


Link?



http://www.japan-guide.com/topic/0002.html
see the five charts on the left side of the page

here are the first three:

What religions do you belong to?
None: 52.4% (largest category)

Are you religious?
No: 55.3% (largest category)

How important is religion in your daily life?
Not important: 50% (largest category)

[susano]

Originally Posted by Fredom101
Japan also has the highest percentage of atheists of any country. Coincidence?




http://www.japan-guide.com/topic/0002.html
see the five charts on the left side of the page

here are the first three:

What religions do you belong to?
None: 52.4% (largest category)

Are you religious?
No: 55.3% (largest category)

How important is religion in your daily life?
Not important: 50% (largest category)


Those answers (which I would also give) have no bearing on being an atheist, which is the claim that Fredom101 made.

[Tal]

There is no looting because your average japanese person is more civilized than your average black person living in Africa, Haiti, New Orleans or LA. That is not to say that there arent good and honest black people, there are ofc, the problem is just that they represent a much lower % of the overall black population than good people among asians and whites for example do.

Let the neg repping commence! :)

Oh and that article by Murray Rothbard called Kulturkampf is amazing and I can highly recommend it.

[idirtify]

Those answers (which I would also give) have no bearing on being an atheist, which is the claim that Fredom101 made.

“No bearing”? Really. Coulda fooled me. So what exactly do you think the surveys say? So what percent of Japanese do you think are atheists? So what belief in what god/religion do you think comprises most of Japan?

Links??

[idirtify]

deleted. duplicate.

[doodle]

There is no looting because your average japanese person is more civilized than your average black person living in Africa, Haiti, New Orleans or LA.

Tons of stats with wrong analysis can produce misleading conclusions. That's fallacious reasoning to link skin color to economic status/education level and then make a "civilization" inference.
90% of US black population opposed a very violent invasion of a country that did not attack us, I'd say that indicates a lot of civility in itself.

Let's argue after factoring in environmental factors without giving in to temptation of group think, then behavior appears in different light.

[nunaem]

I don't buy the cultural explanation... Iraq had a collectivist culture that placed high value on honor and had no 'entitlement mentality' to speak of, yet there was outrageous looting after the 2003 invasion.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Orderly disaster reaction in line with deep cultural roots (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/12/orderly-disaster-reaction-in-line-with-deep-cultural-roots/)

CNN
March 12th, 2011



The layer of human turmoil - looting and scuffles for food or services - that often comes in the wake of disaster seems noticeably absent in Japan.

“Looting simply does not take place in Japan. I’m not even sure if there’s a word for it that is as clear in its implications as when we hear ‘looting,’" said Gregory Pflugfelder, director of the Donald Keene Center of Japanese Culture at Columbia University.

Japanese have “a sense of being first and foremost responsible to the community,” he said.

To Merry White, an anthropology professor at Boston University who studies Japanese culture , the real question is why looting and disorder exist in American society. She attributes it largely to social alienation and class gaps.
...


Full Story:
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/12/orderly-disaster-reaction-in-line-with-deep-cultural-roots/

And none of them are kooky Christians. Coincidence? I think not.

[BlackTerrel]

And none of them are kooky Christians. Coincidence? I think not.

There you have it. Rioting is caused by Christianity.

You solved it.