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View Full Version : Alan Keyes attacking Ron Paul on DADT




Kregisen
03-12-2011, 06:24 PM
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=243145


So Obama has signed the legislation his henchmen pushed through the lame-duck session of Congress, intended to force personnel serving in the United States military to accept homosexual activity as lawful and legitimate conduct. Would this legislation have passed without the support of Republican congressmen like Ron Paul and senators like Scott Brown of Massachusetts? Of course, Paul is the guru of some who claim to be staunch advocates of liberty; and without the votes and financial support of grass-roots conservatives throughout the country, Brown would never have won election. He obtained that support because the specious "money not morals" criteria allowed Republican media hacks (at Fox News and elsewhere) to identify him as a "conservative" who would oppose the Obama faction's socialist agenda.

Now, the prime source of visceral conservative opposition to socialism is its proven propensity to expand the sphere of government coercion and control. But no form of coercion is more deeply offensive to human dignity and self-respect than the coercion of conscience. When the force of law is abused to compel people to perform or tolerate actions they conscientiously believe to be intrinsically immoral, this usually announces the penultimate stage of tyrannical oppression.

The Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 was intended to circumvent state sovereignty to force all Americans to cooperate in the enforcement of slavery. The angry moral revulsion of anti-slavery citizens in the free states led to actions that matured into the kind of open, organized resistance that announced the onset of the American Civil War. Forced to choose between obeying God's law and submitting to human legislation that violated it, many chose to follow the dictates of natural conscience. In this they acted in the spirit of the American founders, who defied the dictates of the British monarch rather than accept impositions levied without regard for the requirements of God-ordained natural justice.

Proponents of the move to force military personnel to accept homosexuality seek to forestall the moral reaction against it with the argument that they are defending the rights of homosexuals just as Union forces defended the unalienable rights of people enslaved in the Southern States; or the U.S. government the civil rights of black Americans subjected to racial segregation and discrimination. According to America's founding principles, the security of their rights is the overall purpose for which people establish institutions of government. Therefore, they argue, coercion that serves this purpose does not destroy liberty. It preserves it.

But by invoking the doctrine of unalienable rights, the proponents of coerced tolerance for homosexuality are assuming that homosexual conduct fits the paradigm for right action that alone makes sense of the notion that justice requires respect for unalienable rights. In everyday parlance these days, we use the term "right" as though it is synonymous with the freedom to act as we choose. But if the choice is wrong, it makes no sense to assert that the chooser has the right to act on it (i.e., has right on his side as he does so.) What someone can do (has the physical capacity or opportunity to do) logically differs from what they ought to do. This is in fact the rationale for all criminal laws. It's what allows us to recognize that simply because an armed assailant has the opportunity and power to take someone's life or goods that does not grant the right to do so. It doesn't make it right.

Every time we assert a right, we are making a statement about what is right. Implicit, therefore, in the enforced legitimization of so-called sexual relations between people of the same sex is the institution of marriage between homosexuals a matter of right. This is, in fact, the reason the homosexual lobby pushed so hard for the repeal of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. The tacit, de facto tolerance of homosexual conduct was not enough. It had to be recognized as a matter of enforceable right. Only as such did it constitute the basis for the next logical step, which is to demand equal protection of that right under the law. Enforced acceptance of homosexual conduct must lead, as a matter of logical necessity to enforced provision for homosexual marriage. Since military chaplains are permitted by law to marry heterosexual couples, homosexual couples will demand the same privilege. The campaign to legitimize homosexual conduct in the military is thus a strategic maneuver intended to place the U.S. government in a position under federal law that directly opposes and supersedes strong opposition to homosexual marriage among the various states. The military services thus become national agencies for fundamental social change, metastasizing homosexual marriage throughout the body politic.

When Republicans like Scott Brown voted to support the movement to coerce our military personnel to accept homosexuality, did they consciously cooperate in this strategy, or was it the result of thoughtless incompetence? If done with due deliberation, such a vote gives the lie to the specious advocacy of states' rights those like Ron Paul use to cloak their refusal to defend the authority and rights of the natural family. It reveals them as fellow travelers in the movement intended to redefine the doctrine of rights in a way that promotes the pernicious notion that they are invented by government rather than authorized by the Creator God. Their action is not some minor disagreement with right-wing religious zealots. It is a decisive break with the understanding of right that is the basis for the U.S. Constitution, and the idea of limited government it implements. Is that conservative? Is it American? Is it even remotely consistent with the self-evident truths America's claim to freedom was justly founded upon?

Don't a lot of people here love Alan Keyes?

Jeremy
03-12-2011, 06:28 PM
Don't a lot of people here love Alan Keyes?
No

00_Pete
03-12-2011, 06:28 PM
I certainly agree with Mr. Keyes.

As for Ron Paul saying that discipline should handle all the problems it clearly shows that:

a) Deep inside he knows what is the true nature of homosexuality
b) He lost the plot since the armed forces cannot even treat a prisioner humanely let alone control the uncontrollable (out of the closet homosexuality)

Great stuff...he should have left religion out of it (using the words like Natural Order instead...God, Natural Order same thing) but still great stuff.

REAL Homosexuality = Hyper-masculinity and hyper-masculinity are attracted to all things "military" like bears are attracted to honey.

Civilizations that accept homosexuality = Soon turned into facist, socialist, hyper-militarist, PEDERASTIC, woman-repressing, physical beauty obssesed, warmongering hellholes. Thats it and thats that.

KurtBoyer25L
03-12-2011, 07:00 PM
I certainly agree with Mr. Keyes.

As for Ron Paul saying that discipline should handle all the problems it clearly shows that:

a) Deep inside he knows what is the true nature of homosexuality
b) He lost the plot since the armed forces cannot even treat a prisioner humanely let alone control the uncontrollable (out of the closet homosexuality)

Great stuff...he should have left religion out of it (using the words like Natural Order instead...God, Natural Order same thing) but still great stuff.

REAL Homosexuality = Hyper-masculinity and hyper-masculinity are attracted to all things "military" like bears are attracted to honey.

Civilizations that accept homosexuality = Soon turned into facist, socialist, hyper-militarist, PEDERASTIC, woman-repressing, physical beauty obssesed, warmongering hellholes. Thats it and thats that.

Hey, Pete. You're talking about some Greeks there, you know. Without whom we wouldn't have logic, writing, music, architecture, math, education or medicine like we know them today. Without the Greeks, the very literature of liberty would not exist; you know, the stuff you are trying to corrupt with your fascism.

Ranger29860
03-12-2011, 07:00 PM
I certainly agree with Mr. Keyes.

As for Ron Paul saying that discipline should handle all the problems it clearly shows that:

a) Deep inside he knows what is the true nature of homosexuality
b) He lost the plot since the armed forces cannot even treat a prisioner humanely let alone control the uncontrollable (out of the closet homosexuality)

Great stuff...he should have left religion out of it (using the words like Natural Order instead...God, Natural Order same thing) but still great stuff.

REAL Homosexuality = Hyper-masculinity and hyper-masculinity are attracted to all things "military" like bears are attracted to honey.

Civilizations that accept homosexuality = Soon turned into facist, socialist, hyper-militarist, PEDERASTIC, woman-repressing, physical beauty obssesed, warmongering hellholes. Thats it and thats that.

Can you please cite sources for that?

low preference guy
03-12-2011, 07:02 PM
Hey, Pete. You're talking about some Greeks there, you know. Without whom we wouldn't have logic, writing, music, architecture, math, education or medicine like we know them today. Without the Greeks, the very literature of liberty would not exist; you know, the stuff you are trying to corrupt with your fascism.

It's impossible to guarantee that if Aristotle didn't invent logic nobody would.

speciallyblend
03-12-2011, 07:12 PM
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=243145



Don't a lot of people here love Alan Keyes?

no he makes glenn beck look like less of a douchebag!! ,on that note i think both are douchebags!!

Aratus
03-12-2011, 07:45 PM
alan keyes is about to run for president again? he's trying to stake out turf...

trey4sports
03-12-2011, 07:59 PM
I certainly agree with Mr. Keyes.

As for Ron Paul saying that discipline should handle all the problems it clearly shows that:

a) Deep inside he knows what is the true nature of homosexuality
b) He lost the plot since the armed forces cannot even treat a prisioner humanely let alone control the uncontrollable (out of the closet homosexuality)

Great stuff...he should have left religion out of it (using the words like Natural Order instead...God, Natural Order same thing) but still great stuff.

REAL Homosexuality = Hyper-masculinity and hyper-masculinity are attracted to all things "military" like bears are attracted to honey.

Civilizations that accept homosexuality = Soon turned into facist, socialist, hyper-militarist, PEDERASTIC, woman-repressing, physical beauty obssesed, warmongering hellholes. Thats it and thats that.


yes, I'm afraid the gheys will turn America into a fascist state!

http://bikyamasr.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Russia-Gay-Pride.jpg

sailingaway
03-12-2011, 08:01 PM
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=243145



Don't a lot of people here love Alan Keyes?

No. If a lot of people loved him he wouldn't have to keep bashing Ron trying to get attention.

TCE
03-12-2011, 08:11 PM
No. If a lot of people loved him he wouldn't have to keep bashing Ron trying to get attention.

This. How many offices has Alan Keyes been elected to again? Must take a ton of skill to lose to Obama by over 2 million votes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Illinois,_2004) in 2004.

sailingaway
03-12-2011, 08:18 PM
This. How many offices has Alan Keyes been elected to again? Must take a ton of skill to lose to Obama by over 2 million votes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Illinois,_2004) in 2004.

He lost not only to Obama, but to a dead man as well, as I understand it.

freshjiva
03-12-2011, 10:19 PM
Now, the prime source of visceral conservative opposition to socialism is its proven propensity to expand the sphere of government coercion and control. But no form of coercion is more deeply offensive to human dignity and self-respect than the coercion of conscience. When the force of law is abused to compel people to perform or tolerate actions they conscientiously believe to be intrinsically immoral, this usually announces the penultimate stage of tyrannical oppression.

Proponents of the move to force military personnel to accept homosexuality seek to forestall the moral reaction against it with the argument that they are defending the rights of homosexuals just as Union forces defended the unalienable rights of people enslaved in the Southern States; or the U.S. government the civil rights of black Americans subjected to racial segregation and discrimination.

But by invoking the doctrine of unalienable rights, the proponents of coerced tolerance for homosexuality are assuming that homosexual conduct fits the paradigm for right action that alone makes sense of the notion that justice requires respect for unalienable rights. In everyday parlance these days, we use the term "right" as though it is synonymous with the freedom to act as we choose.

Every time we assert a right, we are making a statement about what is right. Implicit, therefore, in the enforced legitimization of so-called sexual relations between people of the same sex is the institution of marriage between homosexuals a matter of right. This is, in fact, the reason the homosexual lobby pushed so hard for the repeal of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. The tacit, de facto tolerance of homosexual conduct was not enough. It had to be recognized as a matter of enforceable right. Only as such did it constitute the basis for the next logical step, which is to demand equal protection of that right under the law. Enforced acceptance of homosexual conduct must lead, as a matter of logical necessity to enforced provision for homosexual marriage. Since military chaplains are permitted by law to marry heterosexual couples, homosexual couples will demand the same privilege. The campaign to legitimize homosexual conduct in the military is thus a strategic maneuver intended to place the U.S. government in a position under federal law that directly opposes and supersedes strong opposition to homosexual marriage among the various states.

When Republicans like Scott Brown voted to support the movement to coerce our military personnel to accept homosexuality, did they consciously cooperate in this strategy, or was it the result of thoughtless incompetence? If done with due deliberation, such a vote gives the lie to the specious advocacy of states' rights those like Ron Paul use to cloak their refusal to defend the authority and rights of the natural family. It reveals them as fellow travelers in the movement intended to redefine the doctrine of rights in a way that promotes the pernicious notion that they are invented by government rather than authorized by the Creator God. Their action is not some minor disagreement with right-wing religious zealots. It is a decisive break with the understanding of right that is the basis for the U.S. Constitution, and the idea of limited government it implements. Is that conservative? Is it American? Is it even remotely consistent with the self-evident truths America's claim to freedom was justly founded upon?

Anyone notice a trend (or lack thereof) of all the statements I bolded above?

Keyes is a very elegant writer, but I must say his entire op-ed above could've been truncated into a single soundbyte.

Keyes has a fundamental misunderstanding of liberty, at least in this particular case. Ron Paul and the libertarian perspective seeks to remove government from the institution of marriage completely.

Repealing DADT doesn't coerce anyone into accepting anything; you can continue to be anti-homosexual and continue to perceive it as an immoral act punishable by eternal damnation. But you cannot use your religious injunctions to stop others from doing what they please.

I am a faithful Hindu, and in my religious observance, it is gravely immoral to eat meat and alcoholic drinks. Do Hindus protest at large to ban all meat/alcohol? Do Hindus complain, like Mr. Keyes, that they are being coerced to "accept" people who meat and alcohol consumption because it is legal in the United States (and India)?

Is Keyes really for limited government? Or for establishing a theocracy?

Keyes and the rest of the entire Republican establishment continue to confuse the meaning of the word coercion.

Agorism
03-12-2011, 10:33 PM
This guy followed Rand around Kentucky 24/7 complaining about stuff.

Does someone pay him to follow the Paul's around still? He reminds me of that camera pokerface staffer who was video taping Paul every day.

AZKing
03-13-2011, 01:54 AM
REAL Homosexuality = Hyper-masculinity and hyper-masculinity are attracted to all things "military" like bears are attracted to honey.

Civilizations that accept homosexuality = Soon turned into facist, socialist, hyper-militarist, PEDERASTIC, woman-repressing, physical beauty obssesed, warmongering hellholes. Thats it and thats that.

Right... It's that 2.5% of gay soldiers that are causing the wars. Have you ever considered that perhaps religion contributes to all those things you listed? Religion is notorious for oppressing women, supporting war mongering, and totalitarianism.

And anyway, the neocons that are so pro war are almost always anti-gay. How come they're pro-war and pro-fascist?

Get real dude.

Sola_Fide
03-13-2011, 02:41 AM
Hey, Pete. You're talking about some Greeks there, you know. Without whom we wouldn't have logic, writing, music, architecture, math, education or medicine like we know them today. Without the Greeks, the very literature of liberty would not exist; you know, the stuff you are trying to corrupt with your fascism.

Liberty in no way came from the Greeks. The Greeks were statists through and through.

The Founders had an unhealthy obsession with Greece, and it contributed to the democratic and centralized leanings of the Constitution. Francis Schaeffer points this out. It wasn't a good thing.

Secondly, logic did not come from the Greeks, Aristotle, or any man, group, or country. Logic, by its very nature, must be something above and apart from man, or else we would be saying something like "it was logic according to Aristotle", which is ridiculous. Logic must apply universally irregardless of who uses it in order for it to be logic.