Florida to use electronic touch screen machines for R Primary

[Malakai0]

Let me open saying I am deeply concerned about this. So I just got my party change confirmation from the pasco county board of elections. It says on there, under the area of absentee ballots, "come vote on our touch screen voting terminals".

Anything we can do about it? I thought there were court cases going on about these things. WE NEED PAPER COUNTABLE BALLOTS.

All this fundraising and real support is for nothing if they rig the polls. In 2004 we had lots of issues with the machine and thousands of votes were not counted since they seemed erratic and could not be verified, amonst other more insidious things.
After seeing how blatantly the establishment is using the corrupt media to smear Ron, do you really think they won't rig polls? Without checkable paper ballots and community supervision we cannot be sure the votes are counted correctly...

[The Dane]

Anything we can do about it? I thought there were court cases going on about these things. WE NEED PAPER COUNTABLE BALLOTS.


Maybe to seek somekind of preliminary conclusion to one or two of those courtcases that would force the local GOPs hands. I dont think that it would make the revolution popular with local GOP, but if something is wrong with electronic voting, they might not even know it.

[Dartan]

I was under the impression that we had gotten rid of them already, but I found this (http://www.electiongeek.com/blog/2007/10/14/touch-screen-voting-will-be-gone-in-florida/) article that says some may be around until the first of next year. Hopefully the article is accurate and they will be gone by the primary.

[LibertyEagle]

If you guys live in Florida. You can call and raise hell about it. You don't have to say anything about Ron Paul. In fact, it is better if you keep this campaign totally separate from it. It's only being honest. The campaign has nothing to do with this.

[Richie]

You could vote absentee. That's what I'm going to do.

[freedominnumbers]

There is a way to stop this madness.

I work with POS touch screens all day. When you go to vote bring a razor blade and cut the screen through the touch layer.

Nobody can prove you did it and you just gave them considerable reason to stop using computer based voting machines.

[KewlRonduderules]

There is a way to stop this madness.

I work with POS touch screens all day. When you go to vote bring a razor blade and cut the screen through the touch layer.

Nobody can prove you did it and you just gave them considerable reason to stop using computer based voting machines.

Yeah, they will look on here and point the finger at us.

[ButchHowdy]

I will cheerfully set up a booth at my particular precinct (Rockledge, FL Fire House) and log Ron Paul voters manually, if that's the direction we need to take.

[NinjaPirate]

I just called my local voting office and they said that florida will be using paper ballots. :D

Edit: Ugh, I talked with someone else and they said that Florida will be using both paper ballots and the electronic voting machines for the primaries with the option to use one or the other. If anything, I will use an abentee ballot to vote and avoid that electronic POS like the plague.

[richard1984]

:mad: *spit* :mad:

Do they get money for using these expensive-ass machines? (because Lord knows they're more expensive and less practical than "traditional," paper-ballot voting methods)

I just don't understand.... Why?! :mad: What are the real reasons for trying to switch over to this electronic voting shit? Are people just lazy, obsessed with digitalizing everything, or just plain evil and corrupt?

[NinjaPirate]

:mad: *spit* :mad:

Do they get money for using these expensive-ass machines? (because Lord knows they're more expensive and less practical than "traditional," paper-ballot voting methods)

I just don't understand.... Why?! :mad: What are the real reasons for trying to switch over to this electronic voting shit? Are people just lazy, obsessed with digitalizing everything, or just plain evil and corrupt?

I might be thinking a little naively here but I'm willing to wager that the electronic voting ballots were created to make voting easier and convenient. However, it wasn't put into consideration that votes can easily be manipulated and rigged for an election. Technology is an awesome thing and in most cases these kind of things aren't created with ill intent. It's just people manage to find a flaw in the system and exploit it.

[JMann]

Thanks Algore. If you had done what every other presidential candidate in US history, concede once you lost the recount, we would still have a paper trail in Florida. There would of never been a desire to 'update' the system had the Democrats nominated even a somewhat respectable person on 2000.

[Question_Authority]

I will cheerfully set up a booth at my particular precinct (Rockledge, FL Fire House) and log Ron Paul voters manually, if that's the direction we need to take.

I suggested this as well to my NH campaign coordinators. I think every voting location should have a Ron Paul volunteer (or volunteers) doing our very own exit poll. ANyone who voted for Ron Paul would need to print and sign their name on our log. It is the only way to beat the system IMO.

But everyone poo-poo'd the idea. Don't know why.

[shepburn]

I will cheerfully set up a booth at my particular precinct (Rockledge, FL Fire House) and log Ron Paul voters manually, if that's the direction we need to take.

that is a great idea ... but to work we neee supporters at every precinct!

[NinjaPirate]

But everyone poo-poo'd the idea. Don't know why.

Ask them damet!

[AdamT]

The E machines are still in use all across the country. While there have been significant concerns about their reliability by voting groups, there has been little real action by Congress, and they are still in use. The new Sec of State in CA recently de-certified all their E machines though, so with any luck this will have an effect. Time is short however.

This site is dedicated to E voting. They are to exposing E voting what we are to RP. Very dedicated.

http://www.bradblog.com

[rich34]

The thing that pisses me off is the fact that the bankers and casinos have no problem counting their money right down to the penny, but our government can't even count the votes correctly?? This is by design!

[WillInMiami]

There is a way to stop this madness.

I work with POS touch screens all day. When you go to vote bring a razor blade and cut the screen through the touch layer.

Nobody can prove you did it and you just gave them considerable reason to stop using computer based voting machines.

This thread and especially remarks such as this one are giving Ron Paul a bad name. Many of us have been encouraging you people to knock of the fucking crazy talk. Why don't you listen?!? Are you SO DAMN STUPID that you cannot see the negative impact you're having on Ron Pauls possibility of winning the nomination? If you can't hide your crazy then shut the hell up and simply hand out (official) campaign literature!

[Cindy]

It's not crazy talk Will. The electronic touch screens and electectronic counting machines were proven to be easily hackable and reprogramable without a trace that it was done. HBO did a Documentary called Hacking America. There is a segment in it where the Head Elections Official of Florida launched his own investigation into how easily hackable they are. He is the one working to get Florida back on paper ballots after what he saw. he's been coming up against a lot of resistance too.

In the 2004 election, I voted in Tampa on a touch screen. They allow you to review your votes before you submit them. I did because, I wanted to glance once more at my vote for Nader, feeling good about it. To my horror, it showed Bush.

The touch screens allow you to recast. Of course I did. The second time I hit review, it showed Nader.

If you have to use a touch screen, USE the review key before you walk away and double check.

Ask if you can use a paper ballot. Find a local group organizing exit polls and volunteer to help that day if you can. I have my name on a volunteer list to help with exit polls in my precinct. A group in Sarasota has been working on getting this problem fixed nationally, and is organizing people to take exit polls. They are Pissed because in the 2004 election, problems with the machines caused them to loose 800,000 votes from being counted!

What's crazy Will, is why after all of this time, they refuse to put a roll of paper in those things, to leave a paper trail. Ask yourself how it is possible, Gore came up with negative 4000 votes in broward County in the 2000 electtion. Also ask yourself why they will not allow you to bring in camera equipment to record yourself voting on the touch screen. What are they afraid of that you might catch on film?

They are afraid you might record yourself touching on the Nader key, and Bush showing up on the review screen.

Everyone can take a little time to get in touch with election officials in your area and state, and raise a little hell over it- NOT mentioning Pauls name.

[Pharoah]

Will, at the risk of interrupting your fantastic journey through a happy wonderland where it rains chocolate sprinkles and everybody smiles and holds hands... there actually are bad people who work together. It's called organized crime. Take, just as a random example, the five convicted felons that managed Diebold in 2003.

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2003/12/61640


Con Job at Diebold Subsidiary
Associated Press

SAN FRANCISCO -- At least five convicted felons secured management positions at a manufacturer of electronic voting machines, according to critics demanding more stringent background checks for people responsible for voting machine software.

Voter advocate Bev Harris alleged Tuesday that managers of a subsidiary of Diebold Inc., one of the country's largest voting equipment vendors, included a cocaine trafficker, a man who conducted fraudulent stock transactions, and a programmer jailed for falsifying computer records.

Now I'm sure Will is thinking that these people
only wanted to picnic in the woods and enjoy walks in the moonlight... we'd have to be crazy to so much as question their integrity, right? Certainly the most glaring security risk, the programmer who falsified computer records, would never in a million years be let near a voting machine... right?
Let's go back to the article:


The programmer, Jeffrey Dean, wrote and maintained proprietary code used to count hundreds of thousands of votes as senior vice president of Global Election Systems Inc. Diebold purchased GES in January 2002.


Okaaaay... so obviously we're all crazy to concern ourselves when this kind of thing has never happened before. Except for that one time...

[TVMH]

I recommend that everyone check their individual states' legislation.

From my research, I think Arkansas allows the use of the machine, but an auditable paper-trail is required by law.

I do think exit-polling is a good idea, though.

[Malakai0]

Will, at the risk of interrupting your fantastic journey through a happy wonderland where it rains chocolate sprinkles and everybody smiles and holds hands... there actually are bad people who work together. It's called organized crime. Take, just as a random example, the five convicted felons that managed Diebold in 2003.

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2003/12/61640


Now I'm sure Will is thinking that these people
only wanted to picnic in the woods and enjoy walks in the moonlight... we'd have to be crazy to so much as question their integrity, right? Certainly the most glaring security risk, the programmer who falsified computer records, would never in a million years be let near a voting machine... right?
Let's go back to the article:



Okaaaay... so obviously we're all crazy to concern ourselves when this kind of thing has never happened before. Except for that one time...



This is why I had a big problem when I read it. I had to work today, tomorrow I will try to figure out both who to call and complain too, and also how I can make sure my vote is cast in a verifiable recountable way.

I encourage everyone to find out what kind of voting system your area will be using for the primaries. All of our grassroots work and money raising is 100% pointless if elections are rigged/mismanaged and cannot be recounted.


Just the fact that the income tax and federal reserve act were ever passed is proof enough to me that there is corruption =)

[Shink]

This is a continuation of previous tactics. DIEBOLD CHANGED THEIR NAME TO PREMIER ELECTIONS SOLUTIONS TO AVOID SCRUTINY.