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Flash
03-10-2011, 12:38 PM
I usually find myself overcome with nausea when some sycophant tells a uniformed soldier “Thank you for your service.” I’m perfectly willing to accept that some people joined the armed forces, in all sincerity, in the belief that the U.S. government’s wars had something to do with “defending our freedom.” And many of them have displayed extraordinary courage under fire, or taken heroric risks to defend their comrades’ lives, in that belief. But I feel no need to feed their delusion.

Nevertheless, on this occasion I feel compelled to say to Pfc. Bradley Manning: Thank you for your service.

The U.S. government, after months of holding Manning in solitary confinement in an unsuccessful attempt to break his soul and coerce him into implicating Julian Assange, has blanketed him with additional spurious charges in a further attempt to blackmail him into helping extradite Assange. Among the charges are leaking information to “the enemy” (although they have not stated who “the enemy” is supposed to be in the absence of a legal declaration of war, and cannot name any American who has died as a result of the revelations). In addition, Manning’s jailers now require him to sleep naked and stand at attention naked outside his cell while his cell is searched every morning.

This, supposedly, is “for his safety,” in order to prevent him from harming himself — although he has not been placed on an actual suicide watch. Right — after holding a prisoner in solitary for months in a deliberate attempt to destroy his mind, the “helping professionals” of the U.S. military are treating his alleged suicidal tendencies with sexual humiliation. Lest we forget: Sensory deprivation and forced nudity — far from being the work of “a few bad apples” — have been standard practices from Abu Ghraib to Guantanamo.

Get this: The official explanation for why Manning can’t put on his underwear before being turned out of his cell is that regulations require turning all prisoners out at the same time, and they’d have to wake him up early! And that would violate a double-secret unbreakable regulation! See, their hands are tied! Lt. Brian Villiard, spokesman for the Marine brig at Quantico, denies that these conditions are intended to “pressure or punish” Manning. Villiard is a liar.

Bradley Manning, who has never actually been convicted of anything, is being punished for one crime, and one crime alone: Embarrassing the United States government. He has exposed the criminal activities of the U.S. government — including war crimes by American troops — as well as criminal activities by foreign governments in collusion with the U.S. What’s more, he’s created a demonstration effect by showing others how easy it is to do it, and forced government officials to work under the threat of exposure. Murdering civilians and pimping little boys to Afghan police officials is small potatoes. But embarrassing the U.S. government? For this Manning must die.

Bradley Manning, directly and indirectly, has probably done more for freedom than any single human being in years.

His exposure of war crimes by U.S. forces in Iraq, and his exposure of how the sausage of U.S. foreign policy is made, benefit freedom in their own right insofar as they undermine — to whatever extent — the global and domestic credibility of the United States government.

But more importantly, the cables Manning leaked — which were published on Wikileaks — played a central role in triggering the so-called Twitter revolution that started in Tunisia, spread to Egypt and much of the Middle East, and is now striking Qaddafi with hurricane-force winds of freedom. Among the cables which Wikileaks published were detailed descriptions of the Tunisian regime’s corruption, which galvanized local dissident groups into launching the movement that overthrew the government.

Even in Egypt, where the revolution has seemingly come and gone, we find that Manning’s gift keeps on giving. Egyptian freedom-fighters, showing themselves unwilling to meekly acquiesce in a somewhat less corrupt interim military dictatorship (however long “interim” is), have stormed State Security headquarters in Cairo, where secret police were busily shredding incriminating documents on orders from the Interior Ministry. The demonstrators themselves seized an indeterminate number of documents before being repelled by the army, and the army now claims to have sealed the building in order to preserve all documents from further destruction. Among the documents seized by the demonstrators were many shelves of files on torture — documents previously available only to former secret police chief Omar Sulieman — some of which may reveal the identities of individuals in the Egyptian and U.S. governments involved in the extraordinary rendition program.

Think of it: countless “Little Eichmanns” in the U.S. national security bureaucracy are lying awake nights, in fear that their complicity in outsourcing torture will be exposed to light of day.

Once again: Thank you, Bradley Manning, for your service.

http://c4ss.org/content/6386

Icymudpuppy
03-10-2011, 02:16 PM
I couldn't agree more. I wish I had his courage and conviction.

TheeJoeGlass
03-10-2011, 03:06 PM
I think that kid had no clue what he was getting into judging by the "evidence" released so far. I have been following Greenwald as he has covered this story in great lenghts.

Acala
03-10-2011, 03:46 PM
Nice article.

As some guy once said, truth is treason in the empire of lies.

Slutter McGee
03-10-2011, 04:46 PM
I completely disagree. I may be thankful in part for what he did, but he deserves serious punishment. He is in the military. We can't have poeple running around in uniform leaking secrets.

But wikileaks and Assange I support completely. They are not in uniform and have every right to do what they have been doing with what they were provided.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Acala
03-10-2011, 04:51 PM
I completely disagree. I may be thankful in part for what he did, but he deserves serious punishment. He is in the military. We can't have poeple running around in uniform leaking secrets.

But wikileaks and Assange I support completely. They are not in uniform and have every right to do what they have been doing with what they were provided.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

His first and highest oath is to the Constitution, not to his commanders and not to the government. He has exposed the putrid, deceitful, and unconstitutional activity of the US government and is thereby serving his highest oath and his real employers - the people. He should get a medal.

Is it really your position that soldiers are under a duty to keep secret our government's torture, murder, and child pimping? If so, I find that VERY disturbing. It seems to me that it must necessarily follow from your position that soldiers should follow orders to fire on the American people if ordered to do so.

Slutter McGee
03-10-2011, 04:59 PM
His first and highest oath is to the Constitution, not to his commanders and not to the government. He has exposed the putrid, deceitful, and unconstitutional activity of the US government and is thereby serving his highest oath and his real employers - the people. He should get a medal.

Is it really your position that soldiers are under a duty to keep secret our government's torture, murder, and child pimping? If so, I find that VERY disturbing. It seems to me that it must necessarily follow from your position that soldiers should follow orders to fire on the American people if ordered to do so.

Wow now thats a jump if I ever heard one. Not to mention a major logical fallacy. I simply recognize that people in the military must be held accountable for their actions. And I don't see how leaking diplomatic cables protects the US domestically.

That being said, I am a big supporter of wikileaks.

Sincerley,

Slutter McGee

Acala
03-10-2011, 05:04 PM
Wow now thats a jump if I ever heard one. Not to mention a major logical fallacy. I simply recognize that people in the military must be held accountable for their actions. And I don't see how leaking diplomatic cables protects the US domestically.

That being said, I am a big supporter of wikileaks.

Sincerley,

Slutter McGee

Is it really a jump? Certainly there is no evidence that the leak caused real harm to legitimate US security interests. So your point must be that Manning, and everyone like him, must follow orders and be punished if they don't. So what if he was ordered to fire on American citizens? Is he allowed to follow some orders and not others? Why should he be expected to follow orders to keep the foul wrongdoings of the government secret but then not follow orders to shoot American dissidents? What's your criteria?

His exposure of the lie that is American foreign policy might help to bring about its reform. That is a MAJOR benefit to this country.





You are, I beleive,

madfoot
03-10-2011, 06:22 PM
Wow now thats a jump if I ever heard one. Not to mention a major logical fallacy. I simply recognize that people in the military must be held accountable for their actions. And I don't see how leaking diplomatic cables protects the US domestically.

That being said, I am a big supporter of wikileaks.

Sincerley,

Slutter McGee

His detainment has been unlawful, he's been held for nine months in solitary confinement before he was even charged with a crime. If we support Manning in principle we may as well push for the charges to be dropped.

pcosmar
03-10-2011, 06:41 PM
Wow now thats a jump if I ever heard one.
No, No it is not.
It was exactly right.

Is it really your position that soldiers are under a duty to keep secret our government's torture, murder, and child pimping?
Just simply answer that question.

Teaser Rate
03-10-2011, 06:50 PM
Yes, thank you for stealing classified information and giving it to foreign nationals. Thank you for not reading the cables before you "leaked" them. Thank you for giving the world's perception of America a black eye, making our allies trust us less and making all international negotiations for peace more difficult.

Thank you Manning, you selfish acts accomplished absolutely nothing besides make yourself and other self-righteous anti-American crusaders feel better about yourselves.

How anyone can support his actions is beyond me.

madfoot
03-10-2011, 06:54 PM
Yes, thank you for stealing classified information and giving it to foreign nationals. Thank you for not reading the cables before you "leaked" them. Thank you for giving the world's perception of America a black eye, making our allies trust us less and making all international negotiations for peace more difficult.

Thank you Manning, you selfish acts accomplished absolutely nothing besides make yourself and other self-righteous anti-American crusaders feel better about yourselves.

How anyone can support his actions is beyond me.

Our reaction to Manning and Assange make us look a lot worse than what they did. Do you support the administration?

crazyfacedjenkins
03-10-2011, 06:56 PM
Yes, thank you for stealing classified information and giving it to foreign nationals. Thank you for not reading the cables before you "leaked" them. Thank you for giving the world's perception of America a black eye, making our allies trust us less and making all international negotiations for peace more difficult.

Thank you Manning, you selfish acts accomplished absolutely nothing besides make yourself and other self-righteous anti-American crusaders feel better about yourselves.

How anyone can support his actions is beyond me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI

Teaser Rate
03-10-2011, 06:59 PM
Our reaction to Manning and Assange make us look a lot worse than what they did. Do you support the administration?

Can you be more specific ?

madfoot
03-10-2011, 07:04 PM
Can you be more specific ?

Do you support the administration['s reaction to Wikileaks]?

Teaser Rate
03-10-2011, 07:06 PM
Do you support the administration['s reaction to Wikileaks]?

Again, you need to be more specific.

ds21089
03-10-2011, 07:07 PM
Yes, thank you for stealing classified information and giving it to foreign nationals. Thank you for not reading the cables before you "leaked" them. Thank you for giving the world's perception of America a black eye, making our allies trust us less and making all international negotiations for peace more difficult.

Thank you Manning, you selfish acts accomplished absolutely nothing besides make yourself and other self-righteous anti-American crusaders feel better about yourselves.

How anyone can support his actions is beyond me.

The information which was exposed ultimately helped spark the revolutions across the world. This is a good thing. When the majority of people are coming together for a common good of themselves and their neighbors, it's obviously for the best. This may make the leaders of the countries mad at us, but they wont have power anymore because they will be overthrown. Then the countries which might have hated us for interfering in the first place will notice how the U.S. is having their own revolution and understand that the actions taken against them weren't OUR fault, but our leaders' faults, thus I see no threat here.

Let it continue and let the world establish it's own peace themselves and not with "the government trying to help international peace with the U.S." which is a joke to begin with. Obviously we pick and choose sides of countries to the benefit of their agenda, we aren't at peace with every nation equally, even one whom haven't done anything to us simply because the elite don't like them.

If the world goes through a process of overthrowing their government leaders and establishing a better society for which everyone can live in, I feel that's the best way for the world to establish peace with each other. Everyone going through the exhausting process of defeating their evil leaders should unite nearly everyone in the world in the sense of how we all went through the same crap.

Manning is a patriot in my eyes. Thank you for exposing the truth because that is the strongest enemy of corruption. Also, thank you Michael Jackson for trying to send everyone messages in his music videos about the NWO's plot. (youtube the Michael Jackson Symbolism series if you'd like, some crazy stuff)

madfoot
03-10-2011, 07:13 PM
Also, thank you Michael Jackson for trying to send everyone messages in his music videos about the NWO's plot.

...

ds21089
03-10-2011, 07:17 PM
...

That's what I first said when I saw the series. I watched the whole thing and it's just way too many "coincidences" to be just that. Also if you watch it til the end you will see why he was intentionally murdered. Also, his sister has spoken out about this and keeps saying "they" claiming the doctor was just the fall guy. but when questioned, she gets a very frightened look on her face and doesn't answer. Michael Jackson knew something and I'm assuming some of his family now knows. Let's hope we dont see more Jackson family deaths in the future.

Teaser Rate
03-10-2011, 07:22 PM
The information which was exposed ultimately helped spark the revolutions across the world. This is a good thing. When the majority of people are coming together for a common good of themselves and their neighbors, it's obviously for the best. This may make the leaders of the countries mad at us, but they wont have power anymore because they will be overthrown. Then the countries which might have hated us for interfering in the first place will notice how the U.S. is having their own revolution and understand that the actions taken against them weren't OUR fault, but our leaders' faults, thus I see no threat here.

1-Do you have any solid evidence to back that up ?

2-Even if the leaks did contribute to the recent uprisings, this does not justify breaking the law. If you're in the military, your first duty to protect your country's interests, not spread cheer and democracy around the globe.


Let it continue and let the world establish it's own peace themselves and not with "the government trying to help international peace with the U.S." which is a joke to begin with. Obviously we pick and choose sides of countries to the benefit of their agenda, we aren't at peace with every nation equally, even one whom haven't done anything to us simply because the elite don't like them.

Of course we pick sides when it benefits our national interest, like every nation does and should.


If the world goes through a process of overthrowing their government leaders and establishing a better society for which everyone can live in, I feel that's the best way for the world to establish peace with each other. Everyone going through the exhausting process of defeating their evil leaders should unite nearly everyone in the world in the sense of how we all went through the same crap.

It's way too early to make that kind of judgment. For all we know Egypt could turn into 1979 Iran and Libya could decent in a lengthy civil war with negative consequences for the entire region. We also don't know how the recent changes will affect the long-term stability of the region. We supported dictators for a reason; they gave us stability, they gave stable oil prices and they gave Israel some protection. I'm not saying that those things necessarily justify our actions, but I think we should be cautious about prematurely celebrating them.


Manning is a patriot in my eyes. Thank you for exposing the truth because that is the strongest enemy of corruption. Also, thank you Michael Jackson for trying to send everyone messages in his music videos about the NWO's plot. (youtube the Michael Jackson Symbolism series if you'd like, some crazy stuff)

NWO plot ?

amy31416
03-10-2011, 07:28 PM
2-Even if the leaks did contribute to the recent uprisings, this does not justify breaking the law. If you're in the military, your first duty to protect your country's interests, not spread cheer and democracy around the globe.

I thought the first duty of a soldier was to protect and defend the Constitution, even if it meant not following orders or breaking a law.

Just out of curiosity, Teaser Rate, is there anything that justifies breaking the law? Like, say, exposing the actions of your higher-ups if they've been committing crimes? Like torture...murder, etc?

madfoot
03-10-2011, 07:32 PM
That's what I first said when I saw the series. I watched the whole thing and it's just way too many "coincidences" to be just that. Also if you watch it til the end you will see why he was intentionally murdered. Also, his sister has spoken out about this and keeps saying "they" claiming the doctor was just the fall guy. but when questioned, she gets a very frightened look on her face and doesn't answer. Michael Jackson knew something and I'm assuming some of his family now knows. Let's hope we dont see more Jackson family deaths in the future.

Thing I never got is why can't artists put illuminati stuff in their music just for the hell of it? If I was an artist, I would put NWO symbols in my music and see if anybody noticed.

Teaser Rate
03-10-2011, 07:36 PM
I thought the first duty of a soldier was to protect and defend the Constitution, even if it meant not following orders or breaking a law.

Just out of curiosity, Teaser Rate, is there anything that justifies breaking the law? Like, say, exposing the actions of your higher-ups if they've been committing crimes? Like torture...murder, etc?

Sure, but there's a significant difference between whistle-blowing and what Manning did. If he had released a few cables which specifically showed the misconduct of government officials, then his actions might have been justified. What he did was take the entire set of cables and give them to Wikileaks without reading them. This is essentially the difference between releasing specific emails which prove that your corporation is committing fraud and releasing all their internal documents to the competition.

ds21089
03-10-2011, 07:36 PM
If you're in the military, your first duty to protect your country's interests, not spread cheer and democracy around the globe.

You say "country's interest" like it's what the American people want. Our army isn't supposed to be a tool used to start wars and prop up dictators. It's to defend our country and in my opinion, that's exactly what Manning did. He took the side of THE PEOPLE whom should truly be in control of what happens.


Of course we pick sides when it benefits our national interest, like every nation does and should.

Yes but your words were basically saying that the U.S. is a giant rainbow spreading love around the globe and that Manning ultimately hurt that goal.


It's way too early to make that kind of judgment. For all we know Egypt could turn into 1979 Iran and Libya could decent in a lengthy civil war with negative consequences for the entire region. We also don't know how the recent changes will affect the long-term stability of the region. We supported dictators for a reason; they gave us stability, they gave stable oil prices and they gave Israel some protection. I'm not saying that those things necessarily justify our actions, but I think we should be cautious about prematurely celebrating them.

Yes, but the people have seen the corruption with their own eyes. They are wide awake and wont let anyone whom seems corrupt in any way be the one making the decisions for them.


NWO plot ?

There's just too much to say. If you want to do your own research, go for it, but I couldn't possibly explain everything to you right now.

ds21089
03-10-2011, 07:41 PM
Thing I never got is why can't artists put illuminati stuff in their music just for the hell of it? If I was an artist, I would put NWO symbols in my music and see if anybody noticed.

Think about Michael's message. He was always trying to spread love and unity in the world. He wanted everyone to come together and treat each other how we'd want to be treated. I don't see why he'd just throw NWO/Mason symbols for the heck of it. In his Black or White video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF8vO8nMi0s at 7:02 he starts by breaking a window with a swastika on it, then the back which has "niggerz go home" then the front says "no more wetbacks" he then throws the steering wheel at glass with "KKK Rulez" on it. Also, he shows the mason symbol of the eye in the pyramid which you can actually find in many company logos.

It has to have a purpose and if you watch that series it explains a lot of what the symbolism means. It's a very interesting topic that people are quick to dismiss, but there are far too many "coincidences" for it not to have credibility. Malcom X found out about the NWO and tried to expose him and look what happened.. Michael was going to do the same thing and he had saved over 100 hours of footage for the world to see in case he died, however Sony (elite company) only allowed for 2 hours of it to be shown and look what happened to him.

amy31416
03-10-2011, 07:43 PM
Sure, but there's a significant difference between whistle-blowing and what Manning did. If he had released a few cables which specifically showed the misconduct of government officials, then his actions might have been justified. What he did was take the entire set of cables and give them to Wikileaks without reading them. This is essentially the difference between releasing specific emails which prove that your corporation is committing fraud and releasing all their internal documents to the competition.

Well...if it came to my attention that my corporation was committing mass fraud, and I was capable of getting thousands of their documents to expose them, I'd release them, even if some of the docs were innocuous. It would likely prevent another sucker from investing in them and getting robbed. What Manning allegedly released might prevent more deaths...though our gov't is so gung-ho with the murder machine that it seems unlikely.

So, his first duty is NOT to defend the interests of the US gov't as you stated before (especially important, considering what the interests of our gov't appear to be), but to uphold the Constitution that he took an oath to? It's just that you don't happen to like how he went about things?

madfoot
03-10-2011, 07:44 PM
Think about Michael's message. He was always trying to spread love and unity in the world. He wanted everyone to come together and treat each other how we'd want to be treated. I don't see why he'd just throw NWO/Mason symbols for the heck of it. It has to have a purpose and if you watch that series it explains a lot of what the symbolism means. It's a very interesting topic that people are quick to dismiss, but there are far too many "coincidences" for it not to have credibility. Malcom X found out about the NWO and tried to expose him and look what happened.. Michael was going to do the same thing and he had saved over 100 hours of footage for the world to see in case he died, however Sony (elite company) only allowed for 2 hours of it to be shown and look what happened to him.

He was an artist, and a pretty quirky one at that.

Teaser Rate
03-10-2011, 07:49 PM
You say "country's interest" like it's what the American people want. Our army isn't supposed to be a tool used to start wars and prop up dictators. It's to defend our country and in my opinion, that's exactly what Manning did. He took the side of THE PEOPLE whom should truly be in control of what happens.

Our military is a tool given to our elected representatives just like the IRS or the regulatory agencies. Like the other two, their first task is to obey the orders of the democratically-elected government, which hopefully reflects the best interests of their constituents.

For that system to work, it is essential to members of the military understand order and not try to undermine national defense by committing actions which go against their chain of command.


There's just too much to say. If you want to do your own research, go for it, but I couldn't possibly explain everything to you right now.

There's an old saying I like, "if you can't explain something in three sentences or less, you don't really understand it".

Tal
03-10-2011, 07:54 PM
Bradley Manning is a hero in my book.

Screw governments in general, it was out of control governments that killed 100 million+ people in the 20th century and keeping a close eye on their dealings is a good thing.

Teaser Rate
03-10-2011, 08:01 PM
Well...if it came to my attention that my corporation was committing mass fraud, and I was capable of getting thousands of their documents to expose them, I'd release them, even if some of the docs were innocuous. It would likely prevent another sucker from investing in them and getting robbed. What Manning allegedly released might prevent more deaths...though our gov't is so gung-ho with the murder machine that it seems unlikely.

Ok, but your legal protection would expire as soon as you released an internal document which didn't prove fraud. If you think about it, this makes sense, because allowing the exposure of confidential documents for things which aren't directly related to a higher purpose would create an unstable legal environment. For instance, a doctor can't release all the documents of a patient because that patient was found to have done something illegal.


So, his first duty is NOT to defend the interests of the US gov't as you stated before (especially important, considering what the interests of our gov't appear to be), but to uphold the Constitution that he took an oath to? It's just that you don't happen to like how he went about things?

Using the standard of upholding the Constitution as a measuring stick for appropriate conduct is tricky because no one can pin down an exact definition of what it means.

I'll give you an example: by strict Constitutional interpretation, the Louisiana purchase was unconstitutional, should the military have overthrown Thomas Jefferson for usurping power not granted to him by the document? Or should they just not have defended the region from foreign threats?

ds21089
03-10-2011, 08:11 PM
There's an old saying I like, "if you can't explain something in three sentences or less, you don't really understand it".

It's just too much for three sentences.

The NWO is a group of elite around the world whom pin the general population of various countries against each other in an attempt to distract them from their plot of a one-world government under their command. The reason I say it's them pinning us against each other is they control the media whom obviously spreads lies to divide us. The reason they planned 9/11 was to give us an excuse to go to the middle-east and to take advantage of our emotions of trauma from the sadness to basically give them as much power as they want without us noticing. Patriot Act was a part of that. The reason they want the middle-east gone is because these people aren't religious people.

Also, causing havoc in the middle-east will jack up oil prices, thus bankrupting nations so they can easily manipulate them to come together as one. Doesn't it seem weird how despite our national debt, we're spending record amounts of money at the moment and nobody is actually going through with huge budget cuts because they need us to go bankrupt? They are intentionally trying to bankrupt the world in an attempt to then create a one-world currency (the first step in their NWO) Ben Bernanke is a part of it and he's doing all he can to cover up lies and make sure that it appears that we'll be fine just long enough for them to finish their plot.

They hate anything dealing with God which is why they are pinning Muslims and Christians against each other when in reality they both are the same exact God which they all worship. They intentionally built a mosque near the fallen world trade center area simply to cause us to hate the Muslims even more when we were told they were at fault for these attacks.

Also notice the destruction of being able to express religion in schools and the attempted removal of "under God" from the pledge of allegiance. They are trying to completely destroy religion. The reason for this is religion gives people hope - something they dont want you to have. As you can tell they are well on their way of turning everyone into a mindless sheep.

If you dont want to believe 9/11 was staged, look at the youtube videos of firefighters that were on the scene who noticed so many fishy things which make no sense and obviously proves there was a cover-up. What motive do firemen have to create lies? Firemen are close brothers and they are extremely pissed in how they lost their brothers for reasons hidden from the public.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEuJimaumW4 - building 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4vI1DVjQ0M - firemen for truth

There's so much going on behind our backs, but nobody can see this because we are all worried about wars, about gas, about Charlie Sheen, fighting about social issues and left/right paradigm. They have divided us and are trying to make a world reliant on completely controlling government behind our backs while they cruise on a sailboat on top of the water, watching us fish go at it.

The good thing, however, is many people are waking up to this fact and the truth will reveal these people in the near future. The date which the NWO have scheduled to have complete control is 12/21/2012 The masons were very attached to using numerical codes such as 9/11 - 911(which this Congressional Record dating back to 1930's http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread670608/pg1 shows is around the time where they will start cleansing the earth of from God among various other things such as destroying our Republic and whatnot)

For anyone whom ever heard of 2012, there's also the story of it being a spiritual test of people. Good vs Evil. I truly think that is what we are experiencing and will continue to in the next year.

Teaser Rate
03-10-2011, 08:25 PM
The NWO is a group of elite around the world whom pin the general population of various countries against each other in an attempt to distract them from their plot of a one-world government under their command. The reason they planned 9/11 was to give us an excuse to go to the middle-east and to take advantage of our emotions of trauma from the sadness to basically give them as much power as they want without us noticing. Patriot Act was a part of that. The reason they want the middle-east gone is because these people aren't religious people.

Also, causing havoc in the middle-east will jack up oil prices, thus bankrupting nations so they can easily manipulate them to come together as one. Doesn't it seem weird how despite our national debt, we're spending record amounts of money at the moment? They are intentionally trying to bankrupt us. Ben Bernanke is a part of it and he's doing all he can to cover up lies and make sure that it appears that we'll be fine just long enough for them to finish their plot.

They hate anything dealing with God which is why they are pinning Muslims and Christians against each other when in reality they both are the same exact God which they all worship. They intentionally built a mosque near the fallen world trade center area simply to cause us to hate the Muslims even more when we were told they were at fault for these attacks.

Also notice the destruction of being able to express religion in schools and the attempted removal of "under God" from the pledge of allegiance. They are trying to completely destroy religion. The reason for this is religion gives people hope - something they dont want you to have. As you can tell they are well on their way of turning everyone into a mindless sheep.

If you dont want to believe 9/11 was staged, look at the youtube videos of firefighters that were on the scene who noticed so many fishy things which make no sense and obviously proves there was a cover-up.

There's so much going on behind our backs, but nobody can see this because we are all worried about wars, about gas, about Charlie Sheen, fighting about social issues and left/right. They have divided us and are trying to make a world reliant on completely controlling government behind our backs while they cruise on a sailboat on top of the water, watching us fish go at it.

The good thing, however, is many people are waking up to this fact and the truth will reveal this people in the near future. The date which the NWO have scheduled to have complete control is 12/21/2012 The masons were very attached to using numerical codes such as 9/11 - 911(which this Congressional Record dating back to 1930's http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread670608/pg1 shows is around the time where they will start cleansing the earth of from God among various other things such as destroying our Republic and whatnot)

For anyone whom ever heard of 2012, there's also the story of it being a spiritual test of people. Good vs Evil. I truly think that is what we are experiencing and will continue to in the next year.

I’ll put that in three sentences for you:

There is a secret group of super human genius elites who are controlling the faith of the entire world in their hands and everyone is apparently oblivious to their existence. They are responsible for everything from staging 9/11, to foreign wars and uprisings, civil unrest, and economic chaos, etc. Due to their superhuman strength, intelligence and ability to deceive, only I and a few others have the immense power see through their evil plans and save the world from certain doom... WAKE UP SHEEPLE !!!!

ds21089
03-10-2011, 08:33 PM
I’ll put that in three sentences for you:

There is a secret group of super human genius elites who are controlling the faith of the entire world in their hands and everyone is apparently oblivious to their existence. They are responsible for everything from staging 9/11, to foreign wars and uprisings, civil unrest, and economic chaos, etc. Due to their superhuman strength, intelligence and ability to deceive, only I and a few others have the immense power see through their evil plans and save the world from certain doom... WAKE UP SHEEPLE !!!!

See what I mean. When you only use three sentences it obviously doesn't give you a chance to base your "theories" with facts. It's like how they give Ron Paul a very controversial question then ask him to answer in the last 5 secs of the show which doesn't give him time to explain WHY he feels he's right.

BTW nothing I have claimed can't easily be accomplished with large amounts of money which obviously came from the taxpayers and the already rich Corporates. No wonder they don't want to audit the fed! We'd probably find so many secrets proving how they misused the money and cant prove how it was spent.

madfoot
03-10-2011, 08:34 PM
For instance, a doctor can't release all the documents of a patient because that patient was found to have done something illegal.

I don't get why people use this analogy; governments don't have privacy rights.


Our military is a tool

:/

madfoot
03-10-2011, 08:38 PM
There's so much going on behind our backs, but nobody can see this because we are all worried about wars, about gas, about Charlie Sheen, fighting about social issues and left/right paradigm. They have divided us and are trying to make a world reliant on completely controlling government behind our backs while they cruise on a sailboat on top of the water, watching us fish go at it.

Can't powerful people be douchebags without being omnipotent? Media lies and politicians cheat, but that's just the natural order of things, not a conspiracy.


The good thing, however, is many people are waking up to this fact and the truth will reveal these people in the near future. The date which the NWO have scheduled to have complete control is 12/21/2012 The masons were very attached to using numerical codes such as 9/11 - 911(which this Congressional Record dating back to 1930's http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread670608/pg1 shows is around the time where they will start cleansing the earth of from God among various other things such as destroying our Republic and whatnot)

Ok, so I checked out that link, and apparently they were planning on "cleansing the Earth" on September 17th, 2001. Why didn't they stick to that? Did someone push the button early? @_@

Teaser Rate
03-10-2011, 08:41 PM
See what I mean. When you only use three sentences it obviously doesn't give you a chance to base your "theories" with facts. It's like how they give Ron Paul a very controversial question then ask him to answer in the last 5 secs of the show which doesn't give him time to explain WHY he feels he's right.

If you can't give 5 second answers to controversial questions, you probably don't belong in professional politics.


I don't get why people use this analogy; governments don't have privacy rights.

By its very function, the military is required to keep a certain level of secrecy from the public. (that is, unless you believe that things like launch codes and spy locations should be made public domain)


:/

I don't see how anyone can have a problem with that statement. The military is a tool with a specific purpose, in the same way the police or the courts are tools.

ds21089
03-10-2011, 08:41 PM
Ok, so I checked out that link, and apparently they were planning on "cleansing the Earth" on September 17th, 2001. Why didn't they stick to that? Did someone push the button early? @_@

Look at the very last pic at the bottom of the article. Keep in mind what I said about the removal of God / religion.

madfoot
03-10-2011, 08:42 PM
Jesus's birthday?

ds21089
03-10-2011, 08:46 PM
Jesus's birthday?

Yes which I thought was Christmas, but there's been debate about that for years.

Batman
03-10-2011, 08:55 PM
Too bad my shortest fluid dynamics textbook is close to 500 pages.

squarepusher
03-10-2011, 09:07 PM
I completely disagree. I may be thankful in part for what he did, but he deserves serious punishment. He is in the military. We can't have poeple running around in uniform leaking secrets.

But wikileaks and Assange I support completely. They are not in uniform and have every right to do what they have been doing with what they were provided.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

do you believe that if there exists an unjust law, one must follow it anyways?

Echoes
03-10-2011, 09:22 PM
Guy's a hero.
What we really need are more leaks on the federal reserve.

Wesker1982
03-10-2011, 11:17 PM
do you believe that if there exists an unjust law, one must follow it anyways?

This!

libertarian4321
03-11-2011, 05:17 AM
His first and highest oath is to the Constitution, not to his commanders and not to the government. He has exposed the putrid, deceitful, and unconstitutional activity of the US government and is thereby serving his highest oath and his real employers - the people. He should get a medal.

Is it really your position that soldiers are under a duty to keep secret our government's torture, murder, and child pimping? If so, I find that VERY disturbing. It seems to me that it must necessarily follow from your position that soldiers should follow orders to fire on the American people if ordered to do so.

He leaked a SHIT TON of information without filtering it at all.

Some of it exposed illicit actions by our government, but much of what he released was just day to day operational information that he HAD NO RIGHT OR REASON TO RELEASE.

He just copied and released everything he could get hold of, with no filter.

That was wrong, and he should be punished for it.

If I was his commanding officer, I might agree with him on some points and sympathize to some degree, but I'd still nail his ass to the wall for the reckless and irresponsible way he went about it.

realtonygoodwin
03-11-2011, 06:06 AM
He violated a contract and should be punished for it.

Wesker1982
03-11-2011, 10:53 AM
He violated a contract and should be punished for it.

You cannot make a legitimate contract using unjustly acquired (stolen) goods. A contract is legitimate when the agreement is on a voluntary basis with all parties involved. When the 'state' makes a contract, it is arbitrarily binding non-voluntary participants (legal plunder victims) to pay for the terms agreed to (soldiers pay,etc.) in the contracts.

http://jim.com/treason.htm

freshjiva
03-11-2011, 11:19 AM
There comes a time every so often where exposing truth requires you to commit a crime to do so.

Is Bradley Manning a criminal? Yes. Will he suffer the consequences of this crime? Yes.

What Bradley Manning did was expose the truth by committing a crime. Some guys back in the 1700s committed high treason for the cause of liberty and ending injustices. They are called patriots now. Maybe Manning will be called such as well in the future.

Bradley Manning is a hero to me.

Oh, and the notion that the leaks puts American soldiers at risk is pure theory. No evidence has backed this claim.

Travlyr
03-11-2011, 11:38 AM
If I was his commanding officer, I might agree with him on some points and sympathize to some degree, but I'd still nail his ass to the wall for the reckless and irresponsible way he went about it.
And you call yourself a libertarian?

pcosmar
03-11-2011, 11:51 AM
and you call yourself a libertarian?

lino
;)

Acala
03-11-2011, 11:58 AM
He leaked a SHIT TON of information without filtering it at all..

So? With a few tiny exceptions, most of which only apply when we are legitimately at war, nothing government does should be secret.


Some of it exposed illicit actions by our government, but much of what he released was just day to day operational information that he HAD NO RIGHT OR REASON TO RELEASE..

So why should the release of day to day operatiopnal information be a problem? Do you think that is what he is being punished/tortured for? If you do, you are blind.


He just copied and released everything he could get hold of, with no filter.

That was wrong, and he should be punished for it...
So his great crime is failure to edit adequately? And you think this is what he is being punished for? This is a ridiculous position.

By supporting the government in punishing him for releasing things that were not illegal/unconstitutional/immoral, you give the government free reign to punish him for what they are REALLY mad about and what the people REALLY need to have protected.


If I was his commanding officer, I might agree with him on some points and sympathize to some degree, but I'd still nail his ass to the wall for the reckless and irresponsible way he went about it.

Because it is a really serious crime to release day-to-day operations? And the fact that in the process he exposed vast corruption doesn't mitigate? That is a foolish rule designed to preserve illegitimate government secrecy.

Acala
03-11-2011, 12:00 PM
He violated a contract and should be punished for it.

Breach of contract is not a crime and the remedy for breach of contract is not punishment, it is paying to repair damage done.

Since Manning's contract was with the American people and since he helped rather than hurt them, no damage was done. The people who were damaged deserved to be damaged.

The contract argument fails.

heavenlyboy34
03-11-2011, 12:50 PM
He leaked a SHIT TON of information without filtering it at all.

Some of it exposed illicit actions by our government, but much of what he released was just day to day operational information that he HAD NO RIGHT OR REASON TO RELEASE.

He just copied and released everything he could get hold of, with no filter.

That was wrong, and he should be punished for it.

If I was his commanding officer, I might agree with him on some points and sympathize to some degree, but I'd still nail his ass to the wall for the reckless and irresponsible way he went about it.

I could be mistaken, but it is my understanding that the wikileaks crew hired pro journalists to vet the documents before they were released online. If that's correct, your charge of irresponsibility on Manning's part isn't so sound.

Slutter McGee
03-11-2011, 12:53 PM
do you believe that if there exists an unjust law, one must follow it anyways?

Of course not. My point is simply that the military can not allow members to go around and leak classified data without punishment. We aren't talking about somebody in the press, or a civilion. We are talking about a US serviceman.

Nor do I ascribe to the ridiculous notions that this somehow means I support the things found in those cables, or that this somehow means I would support soldiers firing on Americans.

I really don't understand why this view is ticking so many people off. It certainly isn't outrageous.

I don't think Manning is some kind of hero. Thats it. Deal with it.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

pcosmar
03-11-2011, 01:05 PM
My point is simply that the military can not allow members to go around and leak classified data without punishment.

I think we can not allow the government or military to classify corruption and crimes as "secrets".
I do not believe that an Honest government has any business keeping Secrets at all.

ds21089
03-11-2011, 01:20 PM
Of course not. My point is simply that the military can not allow members to go around and leak classified data without punishment. We aren't talking about somebody in the press, or a civilion. We are talking about a US serviceman.

So if 100% of things the government decided to do now became "classified" we should just be left in the dark to trust our heavenly leaders who will never go astray and will lead us in the right path?

Would you say that our military is supposed to be used to protect the way of life in the U.S. or do you think it's just a tool used for the government to do whatever they want? It seems the latter is how you view it.


I don't think Manning is some kind of hero. Thats it. Deal with it.

Anyone whom exposes corruption is a hero in my book.


I think we can not allow the government or military to classify corruption and crimes as "secrets".
I do not believe that an Honest government has any business keeping Secrets at all.

This.

Acala
03-11-2011, 01:23 PM
Of course not. My point is simply that the military can not allow members to go around and leak classified data without punishment. We aren't talking about somebody in the press, or a civilion. We are talking about a US serviceman.

Nor do I ascribe to the ridiculous notions that this somehow means I support the things found in those cables, or that this somehow means I would support soldiers firing on Americans.

I really don't understand why this view is ticking so many people off. It certainly isn't outrageous.

I don't think Manning is some kind of hero. Thats it. Deal with it.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

How do you distinguish between not following orders to keep murder, torture, and foul corruption a secret from the people and not following orders to fire on dissident Americans? Orders are orders, aren't they? Shouldn't ANY failure to follow orders be punished? If so, then that includes firing on Americans if ordered to do so. If not, how do you distinguish which orders must be followed and which not?

Your positions are inconsistent. If you claim they are not, explain which orders must be followed and which need not be followed and how the soldier is to distinguish . . .

Acala
03-11-2011, 01:25 PM
I think we can not allow the government or military to classify corruption and crimes as "secrets".
I do not believe that an Honest government has any business keeping Secrets at all.

Yup, with the exception of actual military secrets during time of legitimate war.

And by military secrets I don't mean pimping young boys out to be raped. Orders or not.

Wesker1982
03-11-2011, 03:43 PM
My point is simply that the military can not allow members to go around and leak classified data without punishment.


Even if it is moral to do so, and immoral not to? Where do you draw the line? For example, if someone leaked information that the government was going to kidnap and then toss 500 babies into a volcano, should the leaker of this classified data be punished, or praised? Absurd situation, I know, but I am curious.


We are talking about a US serviceman.


So? They should be more worried about actually serving the citizens of the US instead of the politicians in the US government. When law and morality conflict, what should a cop do? What should the milkman do? Should we not hold soldiers to the same standards (morality>law)?



When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law.

Choices choices... What do you pick? :confused:

crazyfacedjenkins
03-11-2011, 08:10 PM
He leaked a SHIT TON of information without filtering it at all.

Some of it exposed illicit actions by our government, but much of what he released was just day to day operational information that he HAD NO RIGHT OR REASON TO RELEASE.

He just copied and released everything he could get hold of, with no filter.

That was wrong, and he should be punished for it.

If I was his commanding officer, I might agree with him on some points and sympathize to some degree, but I'd still nail his ass to the wall for the reckless and irresponsible way he went about it.

Bull Shit! I fucking pay more than 20k a year to those bastards, I should get a daily report. Fuck that secret bull shit.

libertarian4321
03-11-2011, 10:10 PM
And you call yourself a libertarian?

Yes.

Libertarianism is NOT about never having to follow any rules and getting to do whatever the Hell you damned well please at any time and not having to suffer any consequences. Really, it's not.

If that's what you think libertarianism is, I have to ask why you call yourself a libertarian.

If you CHOOSE a career in the military, you follow it's rules. If you do not, you should be prepared to suffer the consequences that you know are coming (the military isn't coy, they let you know what is expected).

If you can't do that, then CHOOSE a job at Wal-mart or whatever you are suited to do. Joining the military, and clearly violating multiple military law, just because you feel like it, then expecting to not have to face the consequences of your acts, is not libertarianism.

If he were one of my soldiers, and I found out about it, I'd hammer him, because regardless of why he did it, he did it in a clearly reckless and irresponsible manner. He filtered nothing, just took everything and released it. He knew it was wrong, and he knew there would be consequences.

libertarian4321
03-11-2011, 10:19 PM
So why should the release of day to day operatiopnal information be a problem? Do you think that is what he is being punished/tortured for? If you do, you are blind.


Have you ever served in the military? Do you have any idea what the military does?

"Day to day" operational data can be used by the enemy to kill our soldiers- even something as seemingly innocuous as releasing a map of the base or the schedule for the mess hall can get people killed.




Because it is a really serious crime to release day-to-day operations? And the fact that in the process he exposed vast corruption doesn't mitigate? That is a foolish rule designed to preserve illegitimate government secrecy.

It may have been a mitigating factor IF he had filtered it before releasing it and only released those items involving corruption.

He did not do that.

He just released what he had en masse, with no filter.

His actions, no matter how good his intent, were completely irresponsible, and could get people killed. He's going down for it. He KNEW he'd go down for it- he made a choice, and will now suffer the consequences of that choice.

Travlyr
03-14-2011, 10:32 AM
Libertarianism is NOT about never having to follow any rules and getting to do whatever the Hell you damned well please at any time and not having to suffer any consequences. Really, it's not.
I've never said that. Liberty is about understanding that along with rights come responsibilities. I take orders from no one, and I respect the rights of others.


If that's what you think libertarianism is, I have to ask why you call yourself a libertarian.
I don't call myself a libertarian because I try and stay away from political labels. That said, I do find libertarianism to be the best political philosophy for a peaceful, prosperous society; but not your kind of libertarianism ... true libertarianism.


If you CHOOSE a career in the military, you follow it's rules. If you do not, you should be prepared to suffer the consequences that you know are coming (the military isn't coy, they let you know what is expected).

True libertarians do not embrace the military industrial complex empire. They are peaceful people who focus on defense not aggression.


If you can't do that, then CHOOSE a job at Wal-mart or whatever you are suited to do. Joining the military, and clearly violating multiple military law, just because you feel like it, then expecting to not have to face the consequences of your acts, is not libertarianism.

If he were one of my soldiers, and I found out about it, I'd hammer him, because regardless of why he did it, he did it in a clearly reckless and irresponsible manner. He filtered nothing, just took everything and released it. He knew it was wrong, and he knew there would be consequences.

Again, aggressive behavior is not a libertarian trait. Hammering someone for telling the truth does not advance humanity. While blindly following orders may have benefits during combat ... mostly it is detrimental. People who do their own thinking, research, and study for the truth are the ones to be respected. Bradly Manning did the right thing.

tsai3904
03-14-2011, 11:32 AM
Interview with Adrian Lamo, the guy who turned Manning in to authorities:

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/americas/2011/03/13/im-sorry-i-could-not-be-friend-manning-adrian-lamo

00_Pete
03-14-2011, 12:03 PM
Thank you for contributing to the CIA-Wikileaks operation.

If the US Army was the modern Spartan Army (and they are working on it) he would be the one doing the torture.