Those dastardly libertarian infiltrators have taken over the New Hampshire GOP!

[Zatch]

:D:D:D:D

Wednesday, March 9, 2011
These lawmakers GOP in name only

Why are certain Republican representatives proposing bills that would reduce revenue at a time when our state is desperately trying to save money? Why are they attacking the middle class they vowed to support?

Many of these representatives are Republicans in name only; their actions reveal a libertarian agenda.

They ran as Republicans, campaigning for fiscal reform and job creation. They told you what you wanted to hear. They won seats by pretending to have the same agenda as the mainstream GOP.

The 2010 election brought or returned 81 “Republican Liberty Caucus” members to the New Hampshire House of Representatives. You can find them listed at www.rlc.org/2010/11/05/nhvictories-2010.

The RLC is a right-wing group that favors privatizing all government assets and eliminating most government agencies – including, incredibly, the Transportation Security Administration.

The election also brought us around a dozen members of the Free State Project (http://freestateproject.org). This group began moving to New Hampshire in 2003.

In its quest for a libertarian utopia, gun-control laws would be abolished, schools and social services would be privatized, and most federal aid would be rejected. In 2003, Jason Sorens, founder of the FSP, estimated that by 2010 the group would start influencing policy by running for local and state office.

If you don’t share these goals, let your representative know. Do some research before the next election – this is not your father’s Republican Party. It is now splintered and radicalized.

Most importantly, they know they cannot be elected without deceiving you. Don’t be a stooge.

Diane Raymond

Nashua

ht tp://ww w.nashuatelegraph.com/opinionletters/911691-263/these-lawmakers-gop-in-name-only.html

[ChaosControl]

Good.

[malkusm]

Why are certain Republican representatives proposing bills that would reduce revenue?

I dunno. Is it conservative to give the government more revenue, in this woman's view?


The RLC is a right-wing group that favors privatizing all government assets and eliminating most government agencies; including, incredibly, the Transportation Security Administration.

OH NOEZ!!!! Not the TSA!!! Whatever would we do without them?! Terrorists would be blowing up bridges and churches throughout New Hampshire if not for the almighty TSA~!!~11


In its quest for a libertarian utopia, gun-control laws would be abolished

Gun control is a conservative position in New Hampshire. Along with a healthy level of government revenue.

[Orgoonian]

:D:D:D:D

In its quest for a libertarian utopia, gun-control laws would be abolished, schools and social services would be privatized, and most federal aid would be rejected. In 2003, Jason Sorens, founder of the FSP, estimated that by 2010 the group would start influencing policy by running for local and state officl

This brought a tear of joy to my eye.

[messana]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3387/dastardly.gif

[malkusm]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3387/dastardly.gif

+rep!

[speciallyblend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qkSe4YM7EY&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6be9AIB-ckk

[Anti Federalist]

Lisa Graas moved to NH and changed her name?

[Elwar]

Is she campaigning for these people?

[aGameOfThrones]

Mrs. Raymond is absolutely correct. The real Republican Party is similar to the Democrat Party..fiscal reform, more jobs, increase revenue or keep it the same. The last thing we need to do right now is shrink the government by starving it of taxes. I call on the real Republicans to work toward increases taxes so that we keep Mrs. Raymond's Republican Party, and our father's Republican Party, alive and well. Kick these small-government "liberty" republicans to the curb!

Comment from the site. WTF!!!

[Anti Federalist]

Comment from the site. WTF!!!

Massholes in Nashua.

[Cowlesy]

Comment from the site. WTF!!!

I am pretty sure that one was is chock full of sarcasm. ;)

[Original_Intent]

HAHAHA that was great! Vive la Revolucion!

[mczerone]

Comment from the site. WTF!!!

Strikes me as satire.

This is a great opening salvo for losing the battle. The "libertarian" Republicans need to fire back with "of course we're Republicans in name only, who would want to associate with these big-government nannies except to use their political party, which has insulated itself from competition?"

The Republican Party Nationally is on its death bed, but the NH GOP is literally in its death throes, taking a last dying gasp to try to keep the party establishment at the federal teat. They have nothing left but to use the establishment rags to call people names.

[Anti Federalist]

I am pretty sure that one was is chock full of sarcasm. ;)

I'll bet you a whiskey shot, that it was serious.

[Travlyr]

:D:D:D:D

In its quest for a libertarian utopia, gun-control laws would be abolished, schools and social services would be privatized, and most federal aid would be rejected. In 2003, Jason Sorens, founder of the FSP, estimated that by 2010 the group would start influencing policy by running for local and state office.

Great News! :D;):cool:


If you don’t share these goals, let your representative know. Move to Illinois because they are not shy about raising your taxes.

Diane Raymond

Nashua

ht tp://ww w.nashuatelegraph.com/opinionletters/911691-263/these-lawmakers-gop-in-name-only.html
Fixed it for you Diane. If you don't like it, move to a state willing to tax their residents into poverty for the statist's golden parachutes.

[aGameOfThrones]

Why are certain Republican representatives proposing bills that would reduce revenue at a time when our state is desperately trying to save money? Why are they attacking the middle class they vowed to support?

You know... there is a lot of WTF in that comment.

[Carehn]

If this starts happening expect FreeState to hit 20,000. by the end of the year. Nothing brings in the procrastinators like success.

[BuddyRey]

^ Yeah, this is totally going to backfire on the statists. A few months ago, when some major NH paper or blog released a vicious hit piece against the FSP, trying to link it to the Koch Brothers, it caused a huge registrant and mover spike. Seeing these pathetic and desperate bullies realize that they're losing their power and trying to grasp at any straws they can just encourages us.

[Kludge]

Calling libertarian-leaning GOP members GINOs supposed to be a subtle point toward RP?

[acptulsa]

Well, now, someone is off-message. The current mantra is all conservatives, and all Republicans, are all the same. Not a whit of difference between us. And here's this state functionary admitting that some of us aren't neocons--and right out in public. Little contradictory, folks...

[Matt Collins]

I believe the original author is a Democrat operative.

[Eric21ND]

What are the statistics and demographics concerning the FSM? I'd like to see how this peaked their membership.

[acptulsa]

I believe the original author is a Democrat operative.

Democratic operative, moderate warmonger--who can tell the difference?

[osan]

Wow.... Dick Dastardly. Very good


http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3387/dastardly.gif

[Sola_Fide]

In its quest for a libertarian utopia, gun-control laws would be abolished, schools and social services would be privatized, and most federal aid would be rejected. In 2003, Jason Sorens, founder of the FSP, estimated that by 2010 the group would start influencing policy by running for local and state office.



Sounds great!

[Sola_Fide]

Calling libertarian-leaning GOP members GINOs supposed to be a subtle point toward RP?

I think so Kludge...

[gls]

Wow. Some huge progress is afoot on the 2nd amendment front:

http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=House+panel+OKs+unlicensed+c arry+bill&articleId=f99e9fb3-af40-40ff-b0f1-e2dbde0ebe3e



CONCORD – New Hampshire may soon be rolling back gun control laws to allow anyone to carry a firearm without a concealed weapons permit.

The House Criminal Justice and Public Safety Committee voted 11-6 Wednesday to recommend HB 330 (click to view status and text) pass the House. In addition to eliminating concealed weapons permits, the bill removes restrictions related to transporting firearms in vehicles.

[specsaregood]

If this starts happening expect FreeState to hit 20,000. by the end of the year. Nothing brings in the procrastinators like success.

I was just thinking damn if that isn't starting to sound good. I wonder if I could find some sucker to buy a house in NJ.

[low preference guy]

I was just thinking damn if that isn't starting to sound good. I wonder if I could find some sucker to buy a house in NJ.

sure. the world if full of suckers! :)

[anaconda]

Damn. NH got that many of us elected? Let's get with the program other 49 states.

[madfoot]

Libertarian agenda? Is that like a homosexual agenda?

[Sentient Void]

Libertarian agenda? Is that like a homosexual agenda?

hahahah, yeah - something like that.

+rep

[HOLLYWOOD]

Another former RLC Chairman in New Hampshire, Dan McGuire, was elected to the 400-member State House. He will join his wife Carol there. Wow, 400 member house? One for each acre in New Hampshire?

[ARealConservative]

Strikes me as satire.

This is a great opening salvo for losing the battle. The "libertarian" Republicans need to fire back with "of course we're Republicans in name only, who would want to associate with these big-government nannies except to use their political party, which has insulated itself from competition?"

The Republican Party Nationally is on its death bed, but the NH GOP is literally in its death throes, taking a last dying gasp to try to keep the party establishment at the federal teat. They have nothing left but to use the establishment rags to call people names.

did you go to sleep in 2009 and just now wake up? we still live in a two party system, and of the two parties, the GOP appears much stronger at the moment.

[Anti Federalist]

Wow, 400 member house? One for each acre in New Hampshire?

I have four reps in the house, all pretty good.

None of them are paid btw.

The fedgov congress should be 5,000. All unpaid.

[ItsTime]

Damn. NH got that many of us elected? Let's get with the program other 49 states.

No one listened to me when i said we were working hard to get ron paul reps elected. It goes MUCH deeper that state reps. We gkt rp reps elected to 100s of town spots. Four MORE in my twon alone, :-D

[trey4sports]

Nice job guys. NH is looking like a GREAT place to move!

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I'll be in New Hampshire hopefully by the end of this year. The more the merrier folks! :)

[Sentient Void]

I'll hopefully be there within the next 2-3 years when I'm ready to buy a house.

[Anti Federalist]

I am pretty sure that one was is chock full of sarcasm. ;)

Why the OP's quoted comment is probably sincere.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?283135-NH-Mitt-supporter-loves-Romneycare

Bleagh...

The line of demarcation between "moderate" Republicans and hardcore liberty folks is very stark in NH.

[Echoes]

With technology the message is spreading, statist Republican frauds are being exposed. I hope libertarians and paleo-conservatives take over the party nationwide, not just in NH.

[Zatch]

I have four reps in the house, all pretty good.

None of them are paid btw.

The fedgov congress should be 5,000. All unpaid.

This is what it would look like:
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/mediafile/200803/11/P200803111543243249629545.jpg


Chinese Parliament

[Keith and stuff]

Wow. Some huge progress is afoot on the 2nd amendment front:

http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=House+panel+OKs+unlicensed+c arry+bill&articleId=f99e9fb3-af40-40ff-b0f1-e2dbde0ebe3e

While there are a lot of good gun bills moving forward this year in NH, I wouldn't say it is huge progress as NH already has arguably the least restrictive weapon laws in the US. I'm glad to know and have worked with so many of the sponsors of these bills. It feels great to be apart of this change.

[Keith and stuff]

Damn. NH got that many of us elected? Let's get with the program other 49 states.

If you are talking about the Republican Liberty Caucus member statistics from the Letter to the Editor, those numbers are wrong. Sure, like 81 people endorsed by the RLC and 119 endorsed by the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance were elected, but all of those people are members of the groups.

As for the other states, there is only one FSP. It isn't surprising that liberty activists are far more likely to get elected in NH than anywhere else in the world. 10 years from know, it might even be far easier for liberty activists to get elected in NH but it will likely be even harder for liberty lovers to get elected in almost every other part of the world.

[Keith and stuff]

BTW, I link those LTE quite a bit, http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?282860-Lady-is-pissed-at-Republicans-in-NH

[gls]

While there are a lot of good gun bills moving forward this year in NH, I wouldn't say it is huge progress as NH already has arguably the least restrictive weapon laws in the US. I'm glad to know and have worked with so many of the sponsors of these bills. It feels great to be apart of this change.

Yeah the laws are already really good but getting rid of the CCW permit and automobile restrictions makes them all that much better.

[Seraphim]

5 years for me... The first term of my mortgage will be up and I'll have equity and other savings and I can move over to NH. Not that I'm all that far away, but NH seems amazing.

While I was buying my house here I was looking at similar price ranges in NH and I was astounded at how much more I could get in NH then were I am. I'd love for real estate values to slowly go down and pick up a beautiful property there.

2016 :)



I'll be in New Hampshire hopefully by the end of this year. The more the merrier folks! :)

[FSP-Rebel]

I'll be in New Hampshire hopefully by the end of this year. The more the merrier folks! :)

Word!

[Liberty Rebellion]

If my dad didn't have cancer I would totally move there. I'll be out there as soon as I can, but it will be very difficult leaving my mother behind since I will be the man of the family when my father passes.

Ugh

[reardenstone]

We need a FSP in the south if possible, although at some point I still believe that we'll all be heading west to the Dakotas and the Mountain States.

[ARealConservative]

I have four reps in the house, all pretty good.

None of them are paid btw.

The fedgov congress should be 5,000. All unpaid.

the unpaid aspect is a horrible suggestion.

the system is already tailored toward ivy league educated, independently wealthy individuals gaining power.

throw out the ability to earn a living and it is just another strike against the average American performing this role.

[low preference guy]

the unpaid aspect is a horrible suggestion.

the system is already tailored toward ivy league educated, independently wealthy individuals gaining power.

throw out the ability to earn a living and it is just another strike against the average American performing this role.

experience suggests otherwise. NH is the only state without seatbelt laws. and it's also the only state whose legislators make $100 a year.

and they don't have to be wealthy because they can still work. they have a part-time legislature.

[Anti Federalist]

the unpaid aspect is a horrible suggestion.

the system is already tailored toward ivy league educated, independently wealthy individuals gaining power.

throw out the ability to earn a living and it is just another strike against the average American performing this role.

Yes, you are quite right. The stunning absence of elite, Ivy League ruling class members in government is astounding.

[ARealConservative]

experience suggests otherwise. NH is the only state without seatbelt laws. and it's also the only state whose legislators make $100 a year.

and they don't have to be wealthy because they can still work. they have a part-time legislature.

not sure what the seat belt thing has to do with anything.

under the current setup, salary isn't that important because the power given is a vehicle for gaining money.

but what about an actual limited government system where there was no good way to gain power and wealth from serving office?

[Echoes]

the unpaid aspect is a horrible suggestion.

the system is already tailored toward ivy league educated, independently wealthy individuals gaining power.

throw out the ability to earn a living and it is just another strike against the average American performing this role.

I totally disagree. It attracts ppl who actually want to serve the ppl, not just another way to make a living.

[ARealConservative]

I totally disagree. It attracts ppl who actually want to serve the ppl, not just another way to make a living.

it's not about wanting to make a living, it's about needing to make a living.

without a a living wage, you have to either be wealthy, or you have to plan on performing this service as a hobby.

I suppose in a truly limited government system, the duties you have to perform would be limited allowing you to maintain other work.

but in the system we currently have, that is not true. it requires a great deal of time dealing with the mountains of legislation constantly introduced. you can't perform this job without dedicating yourself full time.

[low preference guy]

not sure what the seat belt thing has to do with anything.

i think is pretty obvious. it shows that laws in a state with unpaid legislators are better than those in state with paid legislators.

[ARealConservative]

i think is pretty obvious. it shows that laws in a state with unpaid legislators are better than those in state with paid legislators.

Correlation does not imply causation

[low preference guy]

it's not about wanting to make a living, it's about needing to make a living.

without a a living wage, you have to either be wealthy, or you have to plan on performing this service as a hobby.

you can work part-time. if you don't have your shit together, don't have any savings and must work full time, why the heck would you be running for office? it's better to get your life together first, otherwise you're more likely to get corrupted, because you're not self-reliant.

[Anti Federalist]

it's not about wanting to make a living, it's about needing to make a living.

without a a living wage, you have to either be wealthy, or you have to plan on performing this service as a hobby.

I suppose in a truly limited government system, the duties you have to perform would be limited allowing you to maintain other work.

but in the system we currently have, that is not true. it requires a great deal of time dealing with the mountains of legislation constantly introduced. you can't perform this job without dedicating yourself full time.

By cutting back the days that Congress is in session, that would cut back on the mountains of bullshit being introduced.

A volunteer legislature that meets only four times a year.

[low preference guy]

Correlation does not imply causation

a counterexample is enough to invalidate a general claim. your general claim was that it was "horrible". how can it be horrible if the results are not horrible? in fact, it resulted in what is arguably the freest state. is freedom horrible?

[Anti Federalist]

Correlation does not imply causation

That phrase is much overused. I hear it all the time when arguing economics

If I was stating that the number of tourist caves or adult dogs in a state equated to freedom, obviously it would be silly to attempt to link legislative issues to that.

But the very structure of a legislative body most certainly can have a causative effect on quality and quantity of legislation "produced".

[ARealConservative]

a counterexample is enough to invalidate a general claim. your general claim was that it was "horrible". how can it be horrible if the results are not horrible? in fact, it resulted in what is arguably the freest state. is freedom horrible?

New Mexico pays $0 and has seat belt laws.

[gls]

the unpaid aspect is a horrible suggestion.

the system is already tailored toward ivy league educated, independently wealthy individuals gaining power.

throw out the ability to earn a living and it is just another strike against the average American performing this role.

You're incorrect, there are many "average" people in the NH legislator, one of my college professors was a state rep and he is by no means rich. Plus there are many retired people who see it as doing their civil service. It is a small enough state where the reps can drive to Concord on a regular basis (gas stipends are provided). It's a part-time job 6 months a year. It's a big commitment but most people can find the spare time. It seems to be working out pretty well for them.

[ARealConservative]

That phrase is much overused. I hear it all the time when arguing economics

If I was stating that the number of tourist caves or adult dogs in a state equated to freedom, obviously it would be silly to attempt to link legislative issues to that.

But the very structure of a legislative body most certainly can have a causative effect on quality and quantity of legislation "produced".

it's a pretty common logical fallacy, so you should expect to see it in economic debates all the time.

[low preference guy]

New Mexico pays $0 and has seat belt laws.

you can't prove a general claim by giving examples that fit your case. but you can disprove a general claim by using a counterexample.

could you expand on how is it horrible? how is living in NH horrible? how is having self-reliant people who work part-time serving in the legislature horrible?

[ARealConservative]

you can't prove a general claim by giving examples that fit your case. but you can disprove a general claim by using a counterexample.

could you expand on how is it horrible? how is living in NH horrible? how is having self-reliant people who work part-time serving in the legislature horrible?

who said living in New Hampshire is horrible?

reducing the total field of qualified candidates by implementing economic barriers is why it is horrible policy.

[low preference guy]

who said living in New Hampshire is horrible?

reducing the total field of qualified candidates by implementing economic barriers is why it is horrible policy.

because...?

[ARealConservative]

because...?

because less choices is bad for consumers (and in this case voters)

[gls]

double post

[gls]

double post

[low preference guy]

because less choices is bad for consumers (and in this case voters)

i'd argue it's positive to pay them $100 per year. remember the salary of legislators is paid with stolen money. if only $100 is needed to take from taxpayers per legislator per year, that's good.

also, it haven't resulted in the legislature being dominated by ivy-league rich types. if it were so, it would've been a progressive paradise, which NH isn't. also, a lot of people with medium income were elected, as the other poster mentioned:


You're incorrect, there are many "average" people in the NH legislator, one of my college professors was a state rep and he is by no means rich. Plus there are many retired people who see it as doing their civil service. It is a small enough state where the reps can drive to Concord on a regular basis (gas stipends are provided). It's a part-time job 6 months a year. It's a big commitment but most people can find the spare time. It seems to be working out pretty well for them.

people can make money because it's a part-time legislature. but it's true that it encourages people who have some savings to run. that is good, because people who were self-reliant before being in government are less likely to be corrupted than those who need money.

[gls]

who said living in New Hampshire is horrible?

reducing the total field of qualified candidates by implementing economic barriers is why it is horrible policy.

Yes, that's all NH needs is to create 400 career politicians. :rolleyes:

The barriers are not that great. There are many legislators who work full-time and serve nights and weekends. People who do what they do because they care, not because they're getting a paycheck.

P.S.: The NH budget is pretty tight, due to the low taxes and all. Do you volunteer to pay these salaries? ;)

[low preference guy]

P.S.: The NH budget is pretty tight, do to the low taxes and all. Do you volunteer to pay these salaries? ;)

I assume he will. I bet he is putting a fund to pay legislators. Because otherwise he'd be asking for government thugs to take more money from you. He would't want that, would he?

[Philhelm]

I decided to post this response on the website:


The author of this article speaks with a forked tongue. First, consider that any political party is an empty vessel; it is the ideology of its members that determine what the party represents. For now, the Republican Party is associated with conservatism, while the Democratic Party is associated with liberalism; this may not necessarily hold true forever. The ideologies are far more important than the party; in fact, when asked about my political beliefs, my answer is "conservative" rather than "Republican."


My point is that people have been using the term RINO, but I would suggest that the term CINO (Conservative In Name Only) would be more fitting. The libertarians aren't the problem, it's the neoconservatives, who are essentially big-government Democrats who have jumped ship, that are the problem, and have infiltrated the GOP. Think about what was written in the article. The author criticizes the libertarians for being against gun control and for wishing to privatize schools, yet questions their GOP credentials? Uh, hello? Since when did conservatives support gun control? Also, the abolishment of the Department of Education (you know, that bloated government department that has made our children stupid, and indoctrinated with liberal beliefs) used to be an important platform issue for conservatives.

What's next? Is the author going to propose that we raise the federal income tax?

Thought for the day: Gun control is being able to hit your target.

Keep hammering away, but be careful with the battles you pick. Probably not a good idea to bring up certain issues, such as abolishing the War on Drugs. I think it's more important to convince self-styled conservatives that the neoconservatives are nothing but damned liberals. :D

[ARealConservative]

I assume he will. I bet he is putting a fund to pay legislators. Because otherwise he'd be asking for government thugs to take more money from you. He would't want that, would he?

when you use terms like government thug, it makes you look childish and people turn away without listening anymore.

[low preference guy]

when you use terms like government thug, it makes you look childish and people turn away without listening anymore.

lol. way to miss the point and change the subject. but at least you implicitly conceded your argument is ridiculous.

[ARealConservative]

lol. way to miss the point and change the subject. but at least you implicitly conceded your argument is ridiculous.

no, I just realized you aren't worth the time when you went down that path

people that throw around terms like jackboot, thug, statist, etc, etc are the kind I have no interest in discussing issues with. I got sick of it in high school/college and that was over 20 years ago

[low preference guy]

no, I just realized you aren't worth the time when you went down that path

people that throw around terms like jackboot, thug, statist, etc, etc are the kind I have no interest in discussing issues with. I got sick of it in high school/college and that was over 20 years ago

right. confiscating money from innocent people or putting them in jail if they oppose is not something a thug does. of course.

putting people in jail for using medical marijuana to relieve their pain is not something a criminal does. you better don't hurt the sensibilities of those delicate flowers or you'll lose credibility!

[ARealConservative]

With technology the message is spreading, statist Republican frauds are being exposed. I hope libertarians and paleo-conservatives take over the party nationwide, not just in NH.

the problem is most people that speak limited government views are merely doing it because that is the flavor of the month.

don't get me wrong, it's great to be in vogue, as I'm not used to that, but my pessimistic side says it won't last forever.