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FrankRep
03-06-2011, 01:25 AM
The Plot To Overthrow FDR (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/81581.html)


LewRockwell.com (http://www.lewrockwell.com/)
March 5, 2011



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=628728631767818729


The Plot To Overthrow FDR (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FKP0NM?ie=UTF8&tag=libert0f-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000FKP0NM) is one of the finest documentaries ever produced by The History Channel. It is primarily based upon the brilliant book by Jules Archer, The Plot To Seize The White House (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1602390363?ie=UTF8&tag=libert0f-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1602390363). Archer is featured in this program. The film tells the shocking story of how U. S. Marine Major General Smedley Darlington Butler became the savior of our Republic by exposing a fascist coup d’etat of plutocratic militarists in the early 1930s. The plotters largely consisted of elements aligned with the J P Morgan Wall Street banking interests and the American Legion. For more detailed historical background information on this true conspiracy, go here (http://www.amazon.com/Smedley-Darlington-Butler/lm/196W9LDU9H1KI/ref=cm_srch_res_rpli_alt_1/lewrockwell) and here (http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/burris4.html).

[One minor observation and comment: I have been presenting this wonderful documentary to my high school students for many years. Near the conclusion of the film historian Leo P. Ribuffo (http://www.gwu.edu/~history/people/Ribuffo.cfm) (who ironically bears an uncanny resemblance to fascist dictator Benito Mussolini (http://anonymousradioshow.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/benito-mussolini.jpg?w=270&h=364) and who earlier had made ill-informed, disparaging remarks concerning the relationship of the gold standard to a sound constitutional monetary order) describes a purported time sequence placing the Watergate scandal of the Nixon administration in the 1960s. Every showing I must correct this egregious error by pointing out that events surrounding Watergate happened in 1972–1974. Unfortunately many of my clueless students' only knowledge of Watergate is that it somehow prevented Forrest Gump from sleeping in a DC hotel. This situational ignorance is later rectified (http://www.nixonera.com/library/watergate.asp).]


SOURCE:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/81581.html



Books:

The Plot to Seize the White House: The Shocking True Story of the Conspiracy to Overthrow FDR (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1602390363?ie=UTF8&tag=libert0f-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1602390363)

Excellent inexpensive paperback edition of the Jules Archer classic. It's terrific to have this wonderful book back in print which tells how General Smedley Butler was the savior of our Republic from a fascist plot by plutocratic militarists in the early 1930s. Archer is featured in The History Channel documentary, The Plot To Overthrow FDR, a concise summation of this exceptional book.

Maverick Marine: General Smedley D. Butler and the Contradictions of American Military History (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0813109574?ie=UTF8&tag=libert0f-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0813109574)

As with George Washington, we may say of Major General Smedley Darlington Butler, that he was "First in war, first in peace, and first in the hearts of his countrymen." Hans Schmidt's fine biography has much richness and detail not found in other volumes on Butler, and places him in the historical context of his times

Trading with the Enemy: the Nazi-American Money Plot 1933-1949 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0595431666?ie=UTF8&tag=libert0f-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0595431666)

Excellent reference on American corporate/banking cooperation with Nazi Germany before and during WWII. Higham discusses the Wall Street fascist plot against FDR exposed by Smedley Darlington Butler. Dedicated to investigative journalist George Seldes

War is a Racket: The Antiwar Classic by America's Most Decorated Soldier (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0922915865?ie=UTF8&tag=libert0f-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0922915865)

Butler, twice winner of the Medal of Honor, describes the shattering horrific reality of war and those who profit by this carnage and slaughter.

madfoot
03-06-2011, 02:16 AM
O_O

So this is like our version of Inglorious Basterds?

kkassam
03-06-2011, 02:40 AM
Honestly, as an alternative to FDR shredding the constitution, I probably would prefer pro-business fascists shredding the same.

anaconda
03-06-2011, 02:40 AM
I learned about this from an Alex Jones video several years ago.

madfoot
03-06-2011, 02:44 AM
Honestly, as an alternative to FDR shredding the constitution, I probably would prefer pro-business fascists shredding the same.

Except for the internment and racism part, I'd pick FDR over corporofascism any day.

FrankRep
03-06-2011, 02:49 AM
Except for the internment and racism part, I'd pick FDR over corporofascism any day.

I reject both.

low preference guy
03-06-2011, 03:00 AM
Except for the internment and racism part, I'd pick FDR over corporofascism any day.

there are many negative things about FDR, like the expansive interpretation of the commerce clause (FDR packed the supreme court). i'm not sure the judgement is so easy.

kkassam
03-06-2011, 04:39 AM
@madfoot

Racism is not an inherent part of fascism. Nazism was just a species of fascism (FDRism was another). In many fascist regimes, plain ol' exaltation of the national stood where Nazis put exaltation of the master race.

We're working here from a position of some ignorance. We don't know exactly what the political program of the coup plotters was and how it might have played out in real life (and we should remember that FDR apologists love(d) to conflate all his enemies with Hitler). All we know with great certainty is the very real evil that FDR perpetrated with his program once he seized power.

EndDaFed
03-06-2011, 07:54 AM
I mean who could not like the business plot? JP Morgan had all our best interests at heart.

Reason
03-06-2011, 10:48 AM
I'll watch this laters.

Aratus
03-06-2011, 10:50 AM
did foreign money back the plot smedley butler exposed...?

Vessol
03-06-2011, 02:01 PM
Isn't Anti-Federalist like Smedley Butlers nephew or something?

I love the book 'War is a Racket'

Anti Federalist
03-06-2011, 02:11 PM
Isn't Anti-Federalist like Smedley Butlers nephew or something?

I love the book 'War is a Racket'

Yup. (shameless family bragging)

Now, maybe some folks would argue that Uncle Smedley should not have exposed this plot, this conspiracy, that it would have been better to have the awful FDR thrown out in a coup.

I recall a quote of SDB regarding that idea, something to the effect of, "That's not how it's done with our constitution!"

Words to live by...that and:

"There are only two reasons to go to war. One is defend your home. The other is to defend the bill of rights.

War for any other reason is a racket!"

Petar
03-06-2011, 02:19 PM
FDR was fascist.

The "business plotters" were more fascist.

FrankRep
03-06-2011, 02:28 PM
FDR was fascist.

The "business plotters" were more fascist.

FDR wanted the Government to have the power and control, which is a Socialist concept.
The "Business Plotters" wanted the Corporations to have the power, which is opposed to Socialism.

Petar
03-06-2011, 02:35 PM
FDR wanted the Government to have the power and control, which is a Socialist concept.
The "Business Plotters" wanted the Corporations to have the power, which is opposed to Socialism.

FDR wanted the government to have power and control so that his rich backers could use his power to reinforce their monopolies.

The "Business Plotters" were just fed up with the fact that FDR could not move fast enough for them.

There is a reason that the fascist NAZI's were the "National Socialists"...

wormyguy
03-06-2011, 04:17 PM
Ugh, not this again. The so-called "Business Plot" was related in testimony (to the House Un-American Activities Committee, no less) by Smedley Butler, a well-known radical socialist and Roosevelt supporter. He made the ridiculous claim that he had been approached by businessmen to overthrow Franklin Roosevelt (which strains credibility, given that he was probably the best-known radical socialist in the country, and was also well-known as a supporter of Roosevelt; one would think they would find some other general, like MacArthur, who would be more in line with their interests). This testimony was then subsequently reported on by a communist newspaper, which reported that it revealed the Jews (who were also Nazis, apparently) were plotting to overthrow the government. This ridiculous claim was then used by Roosevelt's very real gang of fascists (and his sycophantic revisionist history brigade, in later years) to smear principled libertarians who opposed Roosevelt, such as Al Smith, John Raskob, David I. Walsh, or Charles Evans Hughes. I'm not terribly surprised that LRC is falling for this sort of retardation, but they really ought to know better.

FrankRep
03-06-2011, 04:25 PM
Ugh, not this again. The so-called "Business Plot" was related in testimony (to the House Un-American Activities Committee, no less) by Smedley Butler, a well-known radical socialist and Roosevelt supporter. He made the ridiculous claim that he had been approached by businessmen to overthrow Franklin Roosevelt (which strains credibility, given that he was probably the best-known radical socialist in the country, and was also well-known as a supporter of Roosevelt; one would think they would find some other general, like MacArthur, who would be more in line with their interests). This testimony was then subsequently reported on by a communist newspaper, which reported that it revealed the Jews (who were also Nazis, apparently) were plotting to overthrow the government. This ridiculous claim was then used by Roosevelt's very real gang of fascists (and his sycophantic revisionist history brigade, in later years) to smear principled libertarians who opposed Roosevelt, such as Al Smith, John Raskob, David I. Walsh, or Charles Evans Hughes. I'm not terribly surprised that LRC is falling for this sort of retardation, but they really ought to know better.

Do you have any documentation/articles to counter the "Business Plot" allegations?

wormyguy
03-06-2011, 04:28 PM
Do you have any documentation/articles to counter the "Business Plot" allegations?

I don't have to prove a negative. Prove to me that it did happen.

FrankRep
03-06-2011, 04:31 PM
I don't have to prove a negative. Prove to me that it did happen.

The evidence has been presented. Can you discredit the evidence?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

wormyguy
03-06-2011, 04:34 PM
The evidence has been presented. Can you discredit the evidence?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

I just did?

madfoot
03-06-2011, 06:13 PM
Racism is not an inherent part of fascism.

No, but nationalism is, and I'm very anti-nationalist.

Anti Federalist
03-06-2011, 07:11 PM
Ugh, not this again. The so-called "Business Plot" was related in testimony (to the House Un-American Activities Committee, no less) by Smedley Butler, a well-known radical socialist and Roosevelt supporter. He made the ridiculous claim that he had been approached by businessmen to overthrow Franklin Roosevelt (which strains credibility, given that he was probably the best-known radical socialist in the country, and was also well-known as a supporter of Roosevelt; one would think they would find some other general, like MacArthur, who would be more in line with their interests). This testimony was then subsequently reported on by a communist newspaper, which reported that it revealed the Jews (who were also Nazis, apparently) were plotting to overthrow the government. This ridiculous claim was then used by Roosevelt's very real gang of fascists (and his sycophantic revisionist history brigade, in later years) to smear principled libertarians who opposed Roosevelt, such as Al Smith, John Raskob, David I. Walsh, or Charles Evans Hughes. I'm not terribly surprised that LRC is falling for this sort of retardation, but they really ought to know better.

Meh...

Butler testified in 1934 on the workings of the Business Plot. The House Un-American Activities committee didn't first convene until 1938.

It was the head of the committee he testified to that in actuality was the "radical socialist", Samuel Dickstein. (He was confirmed as a paid, direct informant to the Soviet NKVD)

Butler blasted FDR in a number of speeches for being "in bed" with the banksters.

And nothing much changes, today, being anti-war, pro bill of rights, and anti-bankster and crony capitalism will get you a label of "lefty", "socialist", "liberal" or "radical".

Just ask Ron Paul.

At the time, it has to be remembered that there was a real battle going on for the heart and soul of the Republic, with both sides doing the fighting being wrong about a great many things.

But real, honest to God Fascism was not some "fringe" ideology, it was gaining real ground in 1934. Look into the AFC and Charles Lindbergh for example.

South Park Fan
03-06-2011, 07:23 PM
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot):

On the final day of the committee,[23] January 29, 1935, John L. Spivak published the first of two articles in the Communist magazine New Masses, revealing portions of the Congressional committee testimony that had been redacted as hearsay. Spivak argued that the plot was part of a Fascist conspiracy of financiers and Jews to take over the U.S. government.[15][24]

kkassam
03-06-2011, 08:42 PM
Of some relevance to this discussion, a recent article (http://www.alternativeright.com/main/the-magazine/the-enigma-of-american-fascism-in-the-1930s) on American fascism in the 1930s.

Aratus
03-07-2011, 07:48 AM
mayor cermak of chicago was shot in front of FDR.
FDR had had death threats and was plotted against.
huey long in 1935 is killed by a guy who wants a job.
the testimony was not farfetched & hints at a nazi net.

fletcher
03-07-2011, 09:39 AM
Except for the internment and racism part, I'd pick FDR over corporofascism any day.

Yea, FDR would never put an entire race of people in internment camps. LOL.

FrankRep
03-07-2011, 09:54 AM
Except for the internment and racism part, I'd pick FDR over corporofascism any day.

Putting people into Concentration Camps is kinda a big deal.


Japanese American internment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment)

President Franklin Delano Roosevelt authorized the internment with Executive Order 9066 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9066), issued February 19, 1942, which allowed local military commanders to designate "military areas" as "exclusion zones," from which "any or all persons may be excluded." This power was used to declare that all people of Japanese ancestry were excluded from the entire Pacific coast, including all of California and most of Oregon and Washington, except for those in internment camps.

crazyfacedjenkins
03-07-2011, 12:56 PM
So much for free markets, sounds more like fascism. I can sympathize with liberals who say a libertarian society can fall to fascism real quick. The motive is clearly there and for all the tough guy talk, I don't see any libertarians rising up with their guns.

ChaosControl
03-07-2011, 01:31 PM
So Evil Group A tries to overthrow Evil President.

Sounds almost like a presidential election, how do you choose?

crazyfacedjenkins
03-07-2011, 01:37 PM
So Evil Group A tries to overthrow Evil President.

Sounds almost like a presidential election, how do you choose?

Just like in presidential elections, you have no choice.

Vessol
03-07-2011, 01:40 PM
So much for free markets, sounds more like fascism. I can sympathize with liberals who say a libertarian society can fall to fascism real quick. The motive is clearly there and for all the tough guy talk, I don't see any libertarians rising up with their guns.

Lol.

'Fascism' is an italian term that basically means a bunch of rods tied around an axe, which was an ancient Roman symbol for power.

When you come down to idealogy, there is little difference between fascism and socialism. Both advocate central planning(whether that means the elimination of private enterprise or the co-opting of it, it's the same thing) and the destruction of individual rights. Going even further, there is no significant difference between any governmental systems, except the level of production that can be squeezed out of the tax cattle.

The more proper term for all of this would be Statism. Monarchy, Oligarchy, Democracy, Fascism, Socialism. They're all the same, just different types of Statism.

It doesn't matter what government you create, it will always slide into a centralized and megalomaniacistic State which always ignores the natural rights of those within its borders. As long as you authorize a system that allows others to rule over others involuntarily, you'll always have a State that ignores natural rights.

crazyfacedjenkins
03-07-2011, 01:49 PM
Lol.

'Fascism' is an italian term that basically means a bunch of rods tied around an axe, which was an ancient Roman symbol for power.

When you come down to idealogy, there is little difference between fascism and socialism. Both advocate central planning(whether that means the elimination of private enterprise or the co-opting of it, it's the same thing) and the destruction of individual rights. Going even further, there is no significant difference between any governmental systems, except the level of production that can be squeezed out of the tax cattle.

The more proper term for all of this would be Statism. Monarchy, Oligarchy, Democracy, Fascism, Socialism. They're all the same, just different types of Statism.

It doesn't matter what government you create, it will always slide into a centralized and megalomaniacistic State which always ignores the natural rights of those within its borders. As long as you authorize a system that allows others to rule over others involuntarily, you'll always have a State that ignores natural rights.

Authorize, as in we have a choice?

Vessol
03-07-2011, 01:51 PM
Authorize, as in we have a choice?

Statists support using a system that uses violence against individuals to extort their money in order to fund both the State itself and the 'bread' the Statists want.

crazyfacedjenkins
03-07-2011, 02:00 PM
Statists support using a system that uses violence against individuals to extort their money in order to fund both the State itself and the 'bread' the Statists want.

What about pussy libertarians who are shaking in their boots too scared to rise up or stop paying the mob's protection money... I mean taxes?

Vessol
03-07-2011, 02:02 PM
What about pussy libertarians who are shaking in their boots too scared to rise up or stop paying the mob's protection money... I mean taxes?

So you're a pussy if you're smart enough to realize that if you stop paying your taxes you'll be kidnapped by agents of the state and if you resist you'll be possibly hurt or killed?

There's a difference between being a courageous retard and fighting against the system.

That's like calling someone a pussy because they won't stick their hand on a hot oven.

Like I said, don't bitch about the system when you are the one authorizing its existence which always leads to what you say you hate.

crazyfacedjenkins
03-07-2011, 02:08 PM
So you're a pussy if you're smart enough to realize that if you stop paying your taxes you'll be kidnapped by agents of the state and if you resist you'll be possibly hurt or killed?

There's a difference between being a courageous retard and fighting against the system.

That's like calling someone a pussy because they won't stick their hand on a hot oven.

So you can have a country of libertarians but still live in a tyranny controlled by large businesses who have effectively become the state? Isn't that fascism? But I thought you needed statist for fascism!!

Vessol
03-07-2011, 02:12 PM
So you can have a country of libertarians but still live in a tyranny controlled by large businesses who have effectively become the state? Isn't that fascism, but I thought you needed statist for fascism!!

Sigh, how often do I have to bring this up to economic clueless liberals..Monopolies would not exist if it wasn't for the State. Please watch this video for this very simple reason on why they could not exist economically in a stateless society.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOBD6v8g1F4

Also, you need to learn about what Liberty really means.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I

crazyfacedjenkins
03-07-2011, 02:28 PM
Sigh, how often do I have to bring this up to economic clueless liberals..Monopolies would not exist if it wasn't for the State. Please watch this video for this very simple reason on why they could not exist economically in a stateless society.


Did you just downshift into argue-random-libertarian-point? What the hell do monopolies have to do with a breakdown in democracy? I've already watched those videos and they do no address any of my points.

In a sense you are arguing that in a free society the free members can out-purchase the long arms, but you sure as hell don't have history on your side. What part of you have no choice do you not get?

Vessol
03-07-2011, 02:29 PM
Did you just downshift into argue with liberal mode? What the hell do monopolies have to do with a breakdown in democracy? I've already watched those videos and they do no address any of my points.

In a sense you are arguing that in a free society the free members can out-purchase the long arms, but you sure as hell don't have history on your side. What part of you have no choice do you not get?

I'm not denying that. All I'm saying is that you can't sit there and accept the idea of any kind of State and then be surprised when the results always turn into something you claim to abhor.

crazyfacedjenkins
03-07-2011, 02:33 PM
I'm not denying that. All I'm saying is that you can't sit there and accept the idea of any kind of State and then be surprised when the results always turn into something you claim to abhor.

Wasn't that my initial response to the OP you found so objectionable????

Vessol
03-07-2011, 02:47 PM
Wasn't that my initial response to the OP you found so objectionable????

No, you just said that a libertarian society would become a fascist society easily. You made no claim against Statism in general.

Brooklyn Red Leg
03-07-2011, 03:11 PM
Group of evil assholes want to overthrow an evil asshole President. That's about the only thing I can take away from this. Cool, though, finding out that Anti-Federalist is related to Smedley Butler.