The evidence teaching is not a highly skilled job! The smoking gun about teaching!!!

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

For the viewing pleasure of those who worship the education genie.

Edit:
I am conducting this survey for evidence to support post #29 in this thread:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?281871-Teachers-Deserve-More&p=3144775&posted=1#post3144775

[April1775]

It's blank. So the proof is blankness?

[Andrew-Austin]

Have I learned anything from your posts? Well I'm sure I have. Which makes you a teacher? Thus its not a highly skilled job?

I think his point is that anyone can teach.

Or if that is not his point, then thar be no link in that there post.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Have I learned anything from your posts? Well I'm sure I have. Which makes you a teacher? Thus its not a highly skilled job?

I think his point is that anyone can teach.

Or if that is not his point, then thar be no link in that there post.

I am not claiming anyone who can teach makes a great teacher nor am I claiming I am a great teacher.

I am asserting if someone has learned something from me I it is evidence I have taught which is the definition of a teacher.

Since I am not a highly skilled teacher, I agree with your point anyone can teach.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

It's blank. So the proof is blankness?

So far the survey says Kludge is a douchebag :)

[Acala]

I am asserting if someone has learned something from me I it is evidence I have taught which is the definition of a teacher.

I once saw a guy fling open his car door just as another guy was riding by on his bicycle. Cyclist ran full-on into the inside of the car door and took a major fall. I learned something from both of them. Not sure that made either one a teacher.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

I think the problem here is that our collective definition of what a teacher is and does is based on a model that is hundreds of years old. We've greatly increased the educational resources around us, but we haven't redefined the delivery method for these resources nor the methods in which young minds are taught.

It's like the car. Technology that is basically 100 years old. All we've done is continued to needlessly refine a mediocre technology. There are better ways to travel. If we'd allow the free market to work we would discover those better ways.

It we would allow the free market to work in the education field (i.e. shut down gov't run schools), the balance between a teacher's skill, responsibility and pay would be reestablished.

[squarepusher]

Teaching I think is a natural type ability. Not something that can be learned just by going through university and a masters degree. Unfortunately, those are the requirements at least in California

[Original_Intent]

Blind man: "Buddha sat beside a wall and arose enlightened."
Student: "Are you comparing yourself to Buddha!?"
Blind man: "No. Only the wall."

[ninepointfive]

unless you´ve lectured to an audience I would say STFU. Teaching is more difficult than you´d think, and temperance and patience is a virtue.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

I think the problem here is that our collective definition of what a teacher is and does is based on a model that is hundreds of years old. We've greatly increased the educational resources around us, but we haven't redefined the delivery method for these resources nor the methods in which young minds are taught.

It's like the car. Technology that is basically 100 years old. All we've done is continued to needlessly refine a mediocre technology. There are better ways to travel. If we'd allow the free market to work we would discover those better ways.

It we would allow the free market to work in the education field (i.e. shut down gov't run schools), the balance between a teacher's skill, responsibility and pay would be reestablished.

If I was going to speculate how free market entrepreneurs went about solving the problem of how to increase productivity in the education business I would venture to guess you might see something like faster learning kids in fast paced learning environments, slower learning kids in slower paced learning environments. Maybe some trickle down peer to peer student mentoring since kids with a higher ability to learn can increase their productivity helping teach kids with a lessor ability to learn. Faster pace learning environments might focus around subject matter. Maybe some subject matter comes more naturally for some people and if given the opportunity to learn that subject matter quickly they would have more time to focus on subject matter that does not come as quickly.

My question is if you were in the education business what ideas do you have on how to identify and organize fast/slow learning by subject matter, activity, or some other measure to increase productivity by not treating all time spent learning equal?

What opportunities would you identify to contract with competing education businesses to obtain a mutual benefit where both parties increased productivity (ie. specialization)?

[JK/SEA]

nm

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

unless you´ve lectured to an audience I would say STFU. Teaching is more difficult than you´d think, and temperance and patience is a virtue.

For clarification would you please define audience?

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Define slower learning kids. give examples.

Great question. Now I am learning from you. :)

I have no idea how to measure faster or slower learning (this could be a good reason I am not an education entrepreneur). The best example I can provide is I believe I have personally observed people who are interested in _______ learn ______ quicker than ______'s they are less interested in.

[remaxjon]

I have a degree in Education and History and spent sometime in a 9th grade government classroom but ultimately I wanted to work for myself so I left teaching. Teaching is a highly skilled job for some and a no skill job for others. The really good teachers are so under paid its pathetic. Parents would kill to have there children with the best teachers and these folks should be making several hundred thousand dollars a year. The bad teachers, and there are many have no skill and teach from a book. They dumb down the classroom and hold no one accountable. Unfortunately I think the great teachers only make up about 10% of the profession. 80% are okay and 10% need to be gone. The bottom 10 bring the other 90% salary down.

The free market would do wonders for teachers and kids.

[Justinjj1]

I have a degree in Education and History and spent sometime in a 9th grade government classroom but ultimately I wanted to work for myself so I left teaching. Teaching is a highly skilled job for some and a no skill job for others. The really good teachers are so under paid its pathetic. Parents would kill to have there children with the best teachers and these folks should be making several hundred thousand dollars a year. The bad teachers, and there are many have no skill and teach from a book. They dumb down the classroom and hold no one accountable. Unfortunately I think the great teachers only make up about 10% of the profession. 80% are okay and 10% need to be gone. The bottom 10 bring the other 90% salary down.

The free market would do wonders for teachers and kids.

What do you do now? I really want to get out of the teaching profession, but I have found the job market pretty limited for people with History degrees.


edit: nevermind I just noticed that it's by your avatar.

[JK/SEA]

Great question. Now I am learning from you. :)

I have no idea how to measure faster or slower learning (this could be a good reason I am not an education entrepreneur). The best example I can provide is I believe I have personally observed people who are interested in _______ learn ______ quicker than ______'s they are less interested in.

OK, i'll help you. First you will have to agree that not every kid comes from a well balanced environment, or is not able to speak and/or understand english, or has a learning disability, in other words, has an issue in regards to being born with a certified brain disorder, whether physical or mental or both. These are real issues that public schools deal with. Maybe not in your state or district, but these are in fact real issues Public school teachers are having to deal with. Now, if you can address these problems, and be successful, you will be a hero.

[Original_Intent]

The best teachers are the ones who awaken a desire to learn in the student. Without that, it doesn't matter how much the teacher know or how technically well he can present the information.

Really, that love of learning needs to come from the home, but it sure helps to have teachers that can nurture that.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

OK, i'll help you. First you will have to agree that not every kid comes from a well balanced environment, or is not able to speak and/or understand english, or has a learning disability, in other words, has an issue in regards to being born with a certified brain disorder, whether physical or mental or both. These are real issues that public schools deal with. Maybe not in your state or district, but these are in fact real issues Public school teachers are having to deal with. Now, if you can address these problems, and be successful, you will be a hero.

Roadmap to success in the education business:


First you will have to agree that not every kid comes from a well balanced environment
1. Provide an environment that inspires kids to want to be in that environment more than other environments. Maybe instead of schools someone needs to build an education castle with a working draw bridge. Maybe name the school Hogwarts.

If you need inspiration for ideas that inspire kids to want to be in an environment take a trip to Disney World and then simply figure out how you could conduct a class somewhere at Disney World. I want the exit area of Space Mountain or Big Thunder Railroad for my classroom :).


not able to speak and/or understand english
2. Organize learning by language.


has a learning disability, in other words, has an issue in regards to being born with a certified brain disorder, whether physical or mental or both.
3. I disagree with you. There is no way for productivity to increase if all time spent learning is equal. One kid might learn math quicker than they learn english. My point about slow/fast learning was not talking about disability. I do not subscribe to mental illness and penalizing people for being born who they are because of their social or learning orientation.

Measuring/organizing learning by fast/slow learning is one way to increase productivity in learning.

Organization by language and fast/slow learning might require specialization and shatter the whole notion kids can go to one school to learn everything.

[Justinjj1]

The best teachers are the ones who awaken a desire to learn in the student. Without that, it doesn't matter how much the teacher know or how technically well he can present the information.

Really, that love of learning needs to come from the home, but it sure helps to have teachers that can nurture that.



Agreed, and that is what I really try to do with my students. I teach AP U.S. History and Government, and I'm always trying to get them to understand why it is important to learn those subjects. You cannot force somebody to learn something, the most you can do is to spark an interest which makes them want to learn it themselves.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

I have no idea how to measure faster or slower learning

After reflecting on this earlier comment I am changing my position which is so obvious I am showing my own ignorance by overlooking it. Let's take the premise of the thread:

If you have learned something from me I have taught.

I teach Student A a math problem.
Student A teaches Student B the same math problem
Student B teaches Student C the same math problem

If students B & C have the correct answer it is evidence student A has learned the math problem because student A has explained it to someone else.

Now that I can measure learning success I have the rest of the model worked out in my head and I am ready for an educational entrepreneurial adventure. Who wants to be the first investor?

[JK/SEA]

Roadmap to success in the education business:


1. Provide an environment that inspires kids to want to be in that environment more than other environments. Maybe instead of schools someone needs to build an education castle with a working draw bridge. Maybe name the school Hogwarts.

If you need inspiration for ideas that inspire kids to want to be in an environment take a trip to Disney World and then simply figure out how you could conduct a class somewhere at Disney World. I want the exit area of Space Mountain or Big Thunder Railroad for my classroom :).


2. Organize learning by language.


3. I disagree with you. There is no way for productivity to increase if all time spent learning is equal. One kid might learn math quicker than they learn english. My point about slow/fast learning was not talking about disability. I do not subscribe to mental illness and penalizing people for being born who they are because of their social or learning orientation.

Measuring/organizing learning by fast/slow learning is one way to increase productivity in learning.

Organization by language and fast/slow learning might require specialization and shatter the whole notion kids can go to one school to learn everything.

You answered with non-answers, but thats because you don't have any real world experience in education. My wife is a 4th grade teacher in a low income school.

When i refer to learning disability, i'm meaning 'retarded'. As in with low I.Q. because of a genetic disorder. Schools in this state CANNOT refuse these students admission by law. The schools MUST accomodate these kids, and their grades are 'pooled' into the rest of the grades for getting a schools average of success or failure. Same goes with kids with parents with drug or domestic violence problems. Sure, you could 'create' a false, warm and fuzzy comfortable environment like a Disney World, but these kids still have to go home to hell.

The language issue is not that easy to fix. Parents who only speak their own language at home (non-english) doesn't help. Teachers have only 'X' amount of time to 'teach', and parents like this hold things back big time. What you seek are miracles. K-4 grades are the most critical time for kids to get on the learning train. If after the 4th grade a kid hasn't learned english, he /she hasn't learned reading, writing, and math to the standards of 'no child left behind' ...granted, these kids are a small percentage, but that small percentage is whats gumming up the works. Thats the truth.

Anyway, thanks for bringing this topic up. Its rather useless, but thanks just the same.

[Kludge]

http://lovvy.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/f-identifying-wood-5314.jpg

[Kludge]

http://www.maddox.xmission.com/teacher1.gif

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

You answered with non-answers, but thats because you don't have any real world experience in education. My wife is a 4th grade teacher in a low income school.

Unfortunately for your argument the survey above indicates I have some real world teaching experience.



When i refer to learning disability, i'm meaning 'retarded'. As in with low I.Q. because of a genetic disorder. Schools in this state CANNOT refuse these students admission by law. The schools MUST accomodate these kids, and their grades are 'pooled' into the rest of the grades for getting a schools average of success or failure. Same goes with kids with parents with drug or domestic violence problems. Sure, you could 'create' a false, warm and fuzzy comfortable environment like a Disney World, but these kids still have to go home to hell.

Who is to blame for the schools in your state? The kids?
If you want to do something about it you better start selling better ideas about education and since people have been failing in that venture for the past century I'd say you are better off geographically organizing so you have a local political majority to do something about it.


The language issue is not that easy to fix. Parents who only speak their own language at home doesn't help. Teachers have only 'X' amount of time to 'teach', and parents like this hold things back big time. What you seek are miracles. K-4 grades are the most critical time for kids to get on the learning train.

You might want to substitute some other word than "fix". Fixing something is one of the easier things to do in life.


If after the 4th grade a kid hasn't learned english, he /she hasn't learned reading, writing, and math to the standards of 'no child left behind' ...granted, these kids are a small percentage, but that small percentage is whats gumming up the works. Thats the truth.

Anyway, thanks for bringing this topic up. Its rather useless, but thanks just the same.

Striving to make useless un-educational, non-informative threads my speciality since 2007.

[JK/SEA]

OK..you win. Its really a black and white issue. My bad.

[HOLLYWOOD]

So far the survey says Kludge is a douchebag :) Well, we gotta have some fun!